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Just Found Out :
Dazed and Confused

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Trtroles ( member #57410) posted at 2:09 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

This is horrible story my friend. I am sorry for you pain.

Your wife has no respect for you. Her actions speaks a lot especially calling you bad names and saying bad things about you. :(.

Serve her with Divorce papers. You really deserve someone better.

Dna your Daughters and dont hide this stuff from them. They are old enough to know the truth.

Your Wife is going to try and make you look like a bad guy trust me on this one. Cheaters always blame other people.

Good luck.

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 AmbivalentOne (original poster member #61076) posted at 2:49 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

Thank you all again for your support. It has been a welcome source of positive energy during this otherwise awful time period.

Iwantmyglasses, its like you can read minds! I did find some old EOBs from our health insurance company showing counseling sessions 6 and 7 years ago. I have never had any counseling so it must have been my wife or DDs. I don't honestly recall anyone mentioning therapy in the past, but I'm not sure I trust my sleep deprived brain at this point.

I dozed off while digging through old credit card receipts. Woke up with a blanket draped over me. I guess she must have found me unconscious. Still managed to go back to 2012 without any red flags. No unaccounted for hotel charges during that time. No weird purchases that I can see.

I will check the VARs tonight. Kinda feel like I'm going to snap if I'm not careful. Gonna take a break to walk on the treadmill and watch Stranger Things. Who knows, the physical exercise might help me sleep.

posts: 55   ·   registered: Oct. 16th, 2017   ·   location: Eastern US
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goalong ( member #57352) posted at 3:05 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

You walk out of the bedroom so she most probaly knows what your affliction is. VAR may not help much as from your description the affair ended about 7 years ago (hence your relation improved during the past 7 years). It is possible you may have been Plan B. The opportunistic conniving POS may have bolted after LTA. As I said WW may tell you all the details if you approach her pretending there is a chance for reconciliation. Once you have all the details and information on POSOM you can make your decisions. In the current suspended situation you do not have a chance for a closure

posts: 819   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2017   ·   location: USA
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Iwantmyglasses ( member #57205) posted at 3:12 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

On JFO, I am 100% for standing up for yourself. With a foggy wayward, filing is sometimes the only wake up call.

Your situation isn’t an active affair.

What if we assume the positive in this situation?. She knows how wrong, she sought counseling for herself.

She KNEW how devasting this would be. As betrayed people there are times we stand in the crowd and roar...divorce divorce.

No matter what!! And As each of us know on this website. Adultery is so painful. What if she has held on to this so you don’t feel this hurt? I know it is unfair....but if you didn’t need to carry this on your heart....I do know adultery/affairs do not bring out the best in anyone. This will not bring out the best in you.

People are quoting SpaceGhost to you. He doesn’t have his wife as adultery was a deal breaker...but he became the OM for the AP’s wife....see not the best of someone.

But divorce isn’t always the answer. Only time and discussing this with your wife will determine this.

This is going to be the most painful experience of your life. I can promise you...there is light at the end of this path and during this path.

You are going to have guardian angels throughout this. I promise you!

posts: 3053   ·   registered: Jan. 31st, 2017   ·   location: USA
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Iwantmyglasses ( member #57205) posted at 3:15 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

As far as the reading minds comment..on your original post you described love from your wife. You said you have felt love for more than a few years. It’s what made me suspect counseling.

She didn’t bring your daughter without discussing this. I bet it was for her.

posts: 3053   ·   registered: Jan. 31st, 2017   ·   location: USA
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WilliamM ( member #60910) posted at 3:29 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

Iwantmyglasses said a lot of what I wanted to say but he said it already. This is a sad and terrible journey. It is best that you do what is best for you. If in your heart it is divorce then by all means do that. If it reconciliation then by all means do that. But it is your choice. You did not have any power when your wife had her affair. You do have all the power now.

All things are possible.

posts: 1157   ·   registered: Oct. 4th, 2017   ·   location: Dallas, TX
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Michigan ( member #58005) posted at 4:12 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

People are quoting SpaceGhost to you. He doesn’t have his wife as adultery was a deal breaker...but he became the OM for the AP’s wife....see not the best of someone.

Iwantmyglasses

What does Space Ghost’s character and ultimate divorce have to do with anything?

My Space Ghost quotes were examples of honest information you can find out using a VAR. Honest information is useful if you R or D. Because Space Ghost got a divorce doesn’t mean that I’m recommending that the OP divorce.

In fact the VAR provided only positive information that improved the chances for R in Space Ghost’s case.

It confirmed that his wife loved him and did not love the OM. He also found out that his wife immediately dumped the OM in spite of him begging her to continue the affair. She was considering quitting her job to get away from the OM without any prompting from Space Ghost. There was NO new negative information from the VAR. He already knew she was having an affair.

All of this was MAJOR good news for R.

How in the world does this recommend D over R?

[This message edited by Michigan at 10:23 PM, November 16th (Thursday)]

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Iwantmyglasses ( member #57205) posted at 4:20 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

I didn’t mention VAR. VAR is a great tool.

My mention of spaceghost was to point out...even as esteemed as his story is and constantly used...his story still isn’t the best of humanity.

posts: 3053   ·   registered: Jan. 31st, 2017   ·   location: USA
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MidnightRun ( member #59434) posted at 4:26 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

Don't snap.

You got this.

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rambler ( member #43747) posted at 4:43 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

You have more than enough to confront. I would print it out, highlight the bad part about you and leave for the weekend.

Leave it on the table below before you leave

making it through

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Wool94 ( member #53300) posted at 5:05 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

You have more than enough to confront. I would print it out, highlight the bad part about you and leave for the weekend.

Leave it on the table below before you leave

This ^^^^^^^

You're only making yourself crazy otherwise. What more do you need?

D-Day #1: April 7, 2016
D-Day #2: May 21, 2016
D-Day #3: June 7, 2016
Me: 1975
Her:WW (amn8r) 1981
Son 2006
Daughter 2009
"God not only loves you, but He actually likes you. "-Stephen Hooks

"My faith is mine now."

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OrdinaryDude ( member #55676) posted at 5:22 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

AO, great guidance in this thread so far, so I don’t have much to add other than something to build upon the last few posts.

Thus far it doesn’t look as though she is in an ongoing A, and likely sought therapy at some point, so unless you find newer info inicating the A has continued somehow, I recommend a gentle hand upon confrontation.

You have indicated that she has been the loving wife over the last few years, remember to treat her as such unless she begins to blameshift, etc. Its more likely she will be contrite when confronted with your gathered evidence.

If you have not discovered the APs complete identity by then, it’s imperative that she is honest and open with everything, including his ID.

I was young and dumb and stayed with a cheater.

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mike7 ( member #38603) posted at 7:47 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

I agree. confront. I wouldn't wait anymore.

but be prepared for a bunch of excuses and blubbering, maybe blame-shifting.

I think you have to ask yourself though, the things she did, the x-rated pictures in your bedroom, the things she said to her lover to belittle you, can you get over that? Maybe you should ask her opinion? Does she think that you should divorce her for her betrayal, dishonesty, disrespect? Remember? you're stupid and ugly and not good at sex, according to her. I don't think I could help myself from rubbing her nose in those things. She deserves just about all the disrespect and humiliation that she herself dished out. I'm sorry for my rant, but your story actually hurts to read. I really feel for you.

good luck friend. In the end, you will be ok. I know this. so hang in there.

BH 60
WW 58
Two grown kids

DDay 1/15/2013

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Smillie ( member #51537) posted at 8:45 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

You know I kind of agree with Mike. Does it matter if the affair is ongoing? Really? Just tell her you have seen all the correspondance and then leave it. I would not discuss the matter with her. If she figures out a way to win you back then fine....but I wouldn't help her at all with that. After telling her you know just leave it up to her to figure it all out. I wouldn't answer any of her questions or discuss the matter beyond telling her you know. If she can't figure it out then file for divorce and be satisfied that you gave her a chance.

After confront just keep saying "That's not enough for me"...and nothing else. Either she she meets your criteria for reconcilliation or she does not. In the mean time work on yourself becoming the man you always wanted to be (you might be already but we can all make little improvements).

And see your doc to get help sleeping or do a lot exercise. There should only be one person who is all over the place, and it shouldn't be you. Avoid passive aggression...replace it with a black hole.

I would not discuss the matter with your children.. If they want to know what is going on then they should speak to her. Don't use them as a go between and tell them you will only discuss the matter with their mother. This is between you and her, status quo with your children should not change.

"He was a rock they broke themselves against"

(Legends of the fall (movie)...about Tristian Ludlow)

[This message edited by Smillie at 3:38 AM, November 17th (Friday)]

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Mrhealed ( member #46868) posted at 8:54 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

I wonder, why did she go to teraphy?

I find really hard to belive that she did it out of guilt?

Maybe OM died, or dumped her because OBS knew and she realized that she was his side peace and nota souldmate.

Anyhow, seems like you were and are her Plan B, as Plan A wasnt for real.

If you decide to R she has a lot to explain, and convincente you that she choose you over OM and why (sorry but based on her letters making refences about you , shows full awardness of doings and a inmense lack of respect for you and your kids)

Other thing, you can always R after D. Dont feel like you own her anything. She has taken years of your Life.

Maybe her A ended long time ago , but the cheating os still going on...it ends on DDay

"Infidelity is not a victimless offense. If she cheats on me, then I am a victim. If she intentionally cheats on me then I am an intended victim." by DoneGone

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manfromlamancha ( member #47894) posted at 9:26 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

With reference to another post on this thread that says "she didn't mean the things she said or else she would not have stayed with you", I offer this:

Whether she meant it or not, it was the utter disrespect for her husband, the father of her kids and her provider that exposed a major flaw in her character - not the type of person you would want to be around or even friends with. I already listed the disrespectful things she did.

She has been OK since the affair ended. However, it is very important to know why it ended. I can argue that she would have left you and would be with him if things had worked out with him. So she might be with you now only because things didnt work out with him.

Giving her "credit" for not fvcking around in the last few years is an inconceivable concept in my mind - she is your wife and she is a human being! She should abstain from fvcking around and she should have compassion for you. So this concept too is bull$h!t.

You need to draw out the evil side of her and trust me - it exists. You need to see it for what it is and then deal with it.

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hpv50 ( member #39703) posted at 9:44 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

Hey there,

I think that some of the conflicting advice you’ve received is because your situation is different from many of ours. Many of us first find out while the affair is ongoing, and often don’t have concrete evidence. We have spouses who may not want to stay in the marriage, or act like they don’t love us anymore.

You aren’t in that position. You have concrete evidence that your wife had an affair, that it ended a long time ago, she sought counseling, and acts very much like she wants the marriage and you. These are all good things.

But keeping it to yourself is making you crazy. You’re dropping weight, can’t sleep, can’t think.

Gonna take a break to walk on the treadmill and watch Stranger Things. Who knows, the physical exercise might help me sleep.

This is a great idea. Try to stay hydrated and eat a little something, even if it’s just a protein smoothie.

t/j: Am I the only one who thinks the DemiDogs heads look like figs? They no longer scare me, and instead, make me hungry. t/j

One thing that helped me get through this stage is journaling. Writing down all the anxious thoughts, pain, anger and heartbreak really helped me. I started journaling before I confronted him, and like you, I found SI before I confronted.

Good luck, take care of yourself, and we’re here to help you as you navigate perhaps the worst pain of your life.

Me: BS - 50; Him: WH - 53, covert NPD/ BPD
married 19 years, 3 kids
DD1 4/22/13 (hpv diagnosis)
DD2 5/9/13
Status: relocated my happy; hanging in there for now

posts: 587   ·   registered: Jun. 29th, 2013
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 10:03 AM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

I think infidelity can only be dealt with by dealing with reality and the truth. This is a KEY statement. If you don’t know the truth your marriage will NEVER recover. NEVER.

It’s OK to make logical assumptions, but I think that any truth known right now at the start does less damage than a lesser truth learned further down the road. Irrespective of D or R.

I also think the situation you are in right now – knowing but not confronting – is the toughest one to be in.

I also actively think the job of a new betrayed spouse is to get out of infidelity. The job is not to divorce, nor to reconcile. Those two options are simply paths that can lead you to your destination. Numerous factors – including what YOU want – will help you determine whether you take the path of D or the path of R. Fortunately for you, both paths run parallel for some time and you can switch between them and still head in the right direction. At some point they start separating, and at some point, you need to commit to one or the other.

A lot of people chose a third option. It’s not one I think ever works. That’s where you decide to stay in infidelity (active or inactive) and hope that with time things will be OK. With time they might seem OK, but that’s only because you become accustomed to the stink of the white elephant of infidelity lurking in the corner.

I think it’s clear your wife had an affair. No denying that. I also have a feeling it’s not active – that it has been over for some time. How long? Well… when was that computer in active use? Does that coincide with the therapy claims? Do you have any evidence indicating it’s active now?

I’m a former cop. When we investigated a case, we might zero in on a suspect. By law and obligation, we investigated everything that implicated AND everything that cleared the suspect. If we were comfortably certain he was guilty of the crime he was charged. Once the charge was made we would carry on investigating to bolster the case, to fill in gaps and raise the confidence level. In other words: the original charge could be based on a lot less than the case presented in front of a judge.

I am going to suggest a comparable approach for you.

One caveat though: Did your attorney tell you that infidelity impacted divorce in any way? If not then just read on and skip this warning. If infidelity does impact divorce then check with the attorney what sort of proof you need. While you are at it check if there is an alienation of affection law in your state…

You already know there was/is an affair.

You know enough of the scope of the affair to know it’s a Grade A, Red Alert, load and lock your guns level affair.

Confront her. Simply tell her that the reason you have been acting strange lately is because you know she had an affair. You have seen messages and pictures of her and OM [including pics of her and OM in your bedroom and your bed : edited to take this out because I would not tell her too much at once - see later].

OK – normally we suggest not confronting until you have evidence. Well… you have evidence. You have enough to convince YOU there was/is an affair. That’s all you need. This isn’t a court of law. You don’t need DNA and fingerprints. All you need is enough to convince YOU. Frankly friend, then knowing they met each other 5 times in NY rather than 2 times won’t make the difference. To use the cop-case comparison: Knowing the suspect stabbed the victim 6 times rather than 2 times didn’t make the victim any less dead or the suspect less of a murderer.

When you confront her you simply tell her enough to convince her you know.

“Who is Michael? Why have I seen photos of you kissing a man whom I think is named Michael? Why have I read love letters between the two of you?”

Then you stand your ground.

You let her know that YOU are convinced there was an affair and if she denies it then it’s HER job to convince you she’s right.

You let her know that AS IS the ONLY reason you haven’t filed is you want to give her a chance to tell you the complete unabridged truth. This is a key element: She must be convinced that she has a choice: She can lie, either directly or by omission, or she can tell you the truth.

You let her know that now you are trying to find reasons to remain married, but that you are 100% convinced that you don’t want to live in a marriage that is a lie. She has this one-time offer of being honest and letting you know the truth. You tell her that her response NOW will be the decisive factor on if you will file NOW or if you will commit to a cooling-off period and some attempt to save the marriage. But it’s totally dependent on you being convinced you have the truth.

By feeding her as little as you can you retain some info to evaluate her response. For example, if she says Michael was only a friend and it was only kissing… well… you know better. If she tells you they only had sex once in a hotel-room… If she tells you he’s never been to your town or your house…

You use this info to evaluate what she tells you and to prod for the info you need. You might want to make a list: name of OM, where they met, first time, how often, how communicated, is it over, how can she convince you it’s over…

You can feed her bits and pieces of what you know. Its normal that she be afraid to confess and will minimize. That’s human nature. But once she is uncertain on what YOU know and believes that you are ready to walk away then she will talk.

One important thing to get across (and for you to realize) is that ANY truth NOW will do less damage than any truth learned later. If she were to tell you NOW that they had sex in the kitchen while you were upstairs… believe it or not that would hurt LESS than learning 12 months from now and 12 months into therapy and counseling that they once kissed in public at the airport.

My approach demands a lot of inner strength but it’s like pulling a band-aid off a severe sore. I’m suggesting you yank it off in one go and then evaluate the gaping sore underneath by prodding and examining it in the open.

As is I worrying you are digging and digging and making assumptions about transactions. Maybe the correct assumptions, but still assumptions. I am one of the fortunate ones that walked in on my spouse having sex with OM. I say fortunate because my imagination could create worse pictures than the one engraved in my memory. IMHO, you know enough to start working on a fact-based basis rather than an assumption-based basis.

Finally: I hope you accept that your destination is out of infidelity and that there are only two realistic paths to that destination. It doesn’t really matter what YOU want. If your WW refuses to name OM or tell the complete truth then the path of R is closed to you. D is the ONLY path YOU can select and head towards without her approval. This message must get across to her if you want to R and YOU need to be TOTALLY unafraid of heading to D if she refuses what is needed to R.

I’m falling into my own trap and ASSUMING you would want to reconcile the marriage. After all – it’s been a long one and it sounds like you two were OK until this came to daylight. The KEY to reconciliation is that she tells you the truth and that you accept the truth. This is not the same as accepting or condoning the affair, but IF she did something with OM that is relevant to your marriage then knowing it and dealing with it is the ONLY way forward.

[This message edited by Bigger at 4:07 AM, November 17th (Friday)]

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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Western ( member #46653) posted at 12:58 PM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

AO,

A few points I want you to consider.

First, let’s say that she never tells you who this asshat was.

I find it hard to believe that if this guy was in your house that many times that no one saw or knew anything.

My brother-in-law came home early for lunch one day. His 7 year old daughter said “Daddy, I am glad you are home this time. Normally, it’s the guy from the firehouse”. Now we all knew his wife was a cheating bitch and I personally hate the woman. For a while, we prevented them from getting together but when we left college he hooked up with her and that was it.

I have to assume that this guy didn’t walk through the neighborhood like he was Pacman Jones throwing money all over the place and with his arms in the air like he was the man while he entered the front door. On the other hand, someone had to see him. Neighbors ? Maybe your daughters ???

In the end, you could always hire a PI and dig to find out who this guy was.

I agree with Manfromlamancha. You need to find out who he was. I also agree with him that you have every right to walk away. 9 of your 24 years of marriage was during her affair, 9 was her hiding her affair and who knows what the first 6 was.

I couldn’t get over it. But I am not you.

I hope you took the advice and kept the evidence because she will panic and gaslight you. It will break your heart to see her meltdown when you confront but you will have to stand your ground and think with your mind and not your heart. Think about what she did and how she did it. Also, don’t allow your daughters to influence you. You must stand for yourself.

What did the VARs show ?

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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 1:07 PM on Friday, November 17th, 2017

Who the OM is/was isn’t a key issue per se.

What would be a key issue is that we know she knows who the OM is and if she refuses to tell your who he is then she’s not being completely honest. We also know that honesty is the KEY to reconciliation.

In other words: Not telling you who the OM is = not being totally in reconciliation = the only path open for you out of infidelity is divorce.

Having to discover yourself who OM is because she refuses that info might have value for you personally, but at that point you should be aware it’s too late for the marriage.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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