SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

when you do confront, keep your VAR's in place. If she sneaks off to calls someone saying "he know about POSOM" then you know there is a coconspirator. they are not a friend to your marriage.

Stay strong and take care of yourself

I'm just catching up on this thread and, as usual, Bigger is spot on. Unless your state has a REASON for needing absolute, definitive proof, then all you need is enough proof to convince YOU. And you certainly have that.

Maybe just as important, I hate all the detective work that is often recommended around here. Yes, if you're unsure about the infidelity then you can uncover information that you may need to make a decision. But in a case like this? All you're doing is driving yourself insane trying to play Sherlock Holmes. Your wife is already noticing your strange behavior, you're not sleeping, and - most importantly - you're not moving yourself in any positive direction... either toward divorce or toward reconciliation. You're just staying static, an awful place to be.

As was stated, one of the things about confrontation is that you need to give your wife a safe place to confess. If she thinks she's going to hurt you too badly by telling the truth, she won't. On the flip side, if she thinks you're going to use the information to immediately divorce her, she'll also hide things. The best bet is to create a safety zone where you can tell her that you know, you're 100% positive, you're not going to simply walk out on the marriage in haste, but be absolutely adamant that this is her one opportunity to come totally clean and answer all of your questions. Furthermore, I would recommend that you avoid "prompting" her. Just tell her that you know - that's enough. "Now you fill in the rest." And sit back and let her talk without her knowing what YOU know.

At the end of the day you are going to have to make a fundamental decision - do you want to work to save your marriage? For some, just having your wife confess and knowing the details is enough to drive them out of the marriage. And that is your right. For others it is not so clear. Reconciliation can happen and people (like me) have WAY better marriages after infidelity than before.

That road, however, is long and arduous. Your wife has a ton of work to do - work that a spouse may SAY she's up for but, in reality, is very tough to accomplish. Is she up for it? Can you wait for that type of recovery? Are you tolerant enough to stay with someone who has shared herself with someone else? These are things you should be considering - no matter what the outcome of the confrontation.

Many here simply say, "Divorce." However, the truth is that we've seen less awful infidelities and ones that are far worse. To me, they're ALL bad. But divorce doesn't HAVE to be the answer. Your path is in your hands - and your hands alone. Your wife gets little to any say in the matter.

It's time for you to confront and start moving yourself out of infidelity, with or without your wife.

Good luck.

I want to add and emphasize:

The paths of R and D run parallel for quite some time.

When I (maybe forcibly) suggest you walk on the path of D then the only reason is because the path of R is still cluttered with debris. You could push that debris ahead of you, but eventually it becomes unsurmountable. D however is something you can deal with the debris as it comes along.

If your wife helps clearing the path of R then that path can be open for you. But once she stops working you need to have a clear idea how long you too can stop and rest, how much effort YOU can put into clearing the path and when your only option is to jump over to D.

IMO, who the OM is is a big issue.

Also, I don't want AO to attack the OM while giving his wife a free pass. I see people go out of the way to destroy OM/OW while giving easy reconciliation to their wayward and IMO, that is flat out wrong. The OM/OW are scum but the main betrayal remains with the wayward. If you are going to destroy the OM/OW, then be consistent and get divorced

D&C,

You've been given excellent tactical advice about the "soft" confront. Excellent intros and phrases. After your initial intro stay silent to the point of discomfort and awkwardness. You can feel those things just don't display. Don't jump in w/more info or words. See what she gives you. It will tell you a lot. Prepare yourself for more lies, overt or by omission, more deceit, in an effort to protect herself.

The identity of the OM is absolutely a requirement. The guy has been on your house. You don't want to be forever walking down the street wondering if the guy/guys you see are the OM.

Further down the path you're going to be weighing a thousand different things to wrap your head around this. Your call whether to "credit" her for being dutiful the last few years, and whether to give her "extra credit" for therapy. That has to be weighed against the fact that she committed adultery through deceit, and remained deceitful even when she became dutiful.

"Soft" Confront: start slow, start small w/info. Watch. Listen rather than speak. I'd recommend using your VAR or recording app on your phone. You mind will become a blur. The recording will allow you to review when you are more settled.

Her telling who the OM is a big issue because it helps tell where her mind is toward the relationship. Her telling means she at the very least values the spouse over the OM. If she refuses then protecting the OM is more important than the spouse. This tell a lot about her and the possible chance of R or the true need for D.

AO,

I do think that Bigger and other posters have made a very good point about what an advantage you have in being able to assemble a body of evidence that can then be used to gauge how honest your wife is after you begin to ask questions. And being able to discern how honest your wife is will have a huge bearing on whether or not she is a suitable candidate to consider reconciling with. And that is presuming you open to reconciliation in the first place; this might all be a deal-breaker for you.

This actually has a parallel with another live thread at the moment, in which the betrayed spouse has proof of a more than a hundred phone calls and messages to an OM over a three-year period, while his WW keeps insisting she contacted the OM ten times or less in that period.

Bigger is spot on when he states that taking this approach requires a strong constitution, because as the poster in the thread that I mentioned is finding, it can be very disheartening to find a spouse swearing that their lies are true, and you have to say nothing about all the evidence you have that contradicts what they say. However, if you can get through this process, it really will provide you with a way to test your wife's suitability if reconciliation is a possibility. And that is something that a lot of people never have in the aftermath of infidelity.

At the same time, you must bear in mind that very few people are going to feel able to admit to everything that they did or said, particularly some of the most hurtful elements. If you put yourself in her position, and she was asking you about what you said to another woman about her, would you really be able to say, "I said she had better boobs, was better in bed, etc"? It is incredibly hard to confess to things like that, and your wife may well deny those things repeatedly.

Those things, I would say, are peripheral to the core issues, though at some point, when you have taken what you need from the process, you can print various items of your evidence and give them to your wife in a folder, so that she knows that you have seen them. If you do that, without any big scene or lots of comment, I think it would actually increase the impact of the evidence. Let her re-read what she did and said, and let the knowledge that you know about it sink in.

I say that not in any malicious way, but because she needs to properly grasp how much work she has to do if she is going to redeem herself and make things up to you. If she develops that frame of mind, it can be the basis for a realistic beginning to reconciliation.

Unless there is honesty from her, and true remorse, reconciliation is likely to fail at some point in the future. It can be hard road to embark upon, which is why, even though some of this stuff sounds harsh, it is better for you in the long term to stress-test as much as possible before you commit to any potential way forward. It will mean that you do not commit to a reconciliation that may well fail, but it also means that if you take the decision to divorce, you will not have done it without first exploring whether reconciliation had the potential to work.

This is just food for thought; if any of it is useful, that is great, but if anything here does not feel suitable for you, please reject it. You are the guy who best knows your mind, and which outcomes you may be thinking about.

A remorseful wife will provide you with his name--and any detail you request. It's as simple as that.

I agree with Bigger: If she refuses, that says everything.

Note, I'm just brainstorming.

If VARs doesn't reveal anything ongoing (it looks unlikely), then maybe you can "confront" her in such a way. Find good IC, who specializes in infidelity. Talk to him first to determine that he's not one of rug-sweeping kind and to explain situation. Tell your wife that she has appointment and that you insist that she should go, and that you will talk to her afterwards. Let IC to prepare her for what's to come and how to minimize impact of her actions on you (i.e. no lies, no TT, 100% honesty). Coming from a third (unaffected) party it might be more effective than if it came from you.

Then confront her afterwards.

Perhaps I missed something. What is the game plan post confrontation. Everyone seems to be assuming you are contemplating R. Are you? With a woman who spent 8 years screwing another, bad mouthing you and treating you like dirt while on the gravy train?

If not, the only confrontation you need is serving her with a summons and complaint.

I will never be able to thank all of you enough for your responses. Just know I have been leaning heavily on your advice and support this week.

Checked the VARs last night. The one in her car just had her singing along with the stereo. The one inside the house had some brief conversations with me and a phone call to one of our DD.

I am coming to believe there just isn't anymore information to be found without lengthy investigations. And I don't think I can do this anymore...the sneaking around is really straining my sanity.

I am going to confront her this afternoon. Many of you have given great advice on how to approach her. I am just going to show her the NYC Kiss photo and tell her I know about Michael.

Just to answer a few questions...my state does have an alienation of affection law, but it is apparently very difficult to enforce. Per lawyer, adultery can affect alimony payments. Lawyer seems confident that the evidence I currently have would be sufficient to improve my settlement. I spoke to my CPA and FP on the phone yesterday and they both echo the Lawyer's belief that the trust funds will not be subject to division of assets.

But before I talk to her, I am going for a walk around our property. I have been neglecting things for the past few weeks and I want to check on the grounds and animals. Hopefully that will clear my head and put me in a better mental state.

Thanks again to everyone. I will try to update later.

Good luck.

Say your bit...short and sweet. Sit back and embrace the awful silence. Part of me thinks she is desperate to come clean. Hint of a lie just embrace the silence. Maintain direct but cool eye contact throughout.

Don't mention divorce yet. That is your wild card.

[This message edited by Smillie at 11:41 AM, November 17th (Friday)]

Your plan sounds great. Just have the VARs in place. There was no reason to discuss her affair before being confronted. After this afternoon, there will be.

Good Luck

Just remember that you dont have to decide nothing, promes nothing or say nothing .

Cheaters lie, dont belive a thing she says.

Stay cool and dont ley her vale you or Tello you that you invaded her privacidad.

I am going to confront her this afternoon. Many of you have given great advice on how to approach her. I am just going to show her the NYC Kiss photo and tell her I know about Michael.

Excellent. Now for the bad news. Unless your wife is in a very small minority she is going to lie and/or minimize her affair. At that juncture, you obviously have a couple of choices.

In the healing library, located in the top left corner, there is a section called articles. Within that section is an article Titled Josephs letter. Read it, Then print it removing any references to this website.

If she begins to lie or minimize, hand it to her, have her read it and and then continue.

Just another thought for a soft approach.

Strength

AO praying that you get what you're seeking today when confronting your wife.

AO praying that you get what you're seeking today when confronting your wife.

I am as well. Really hope this can go smoothly and she will own what she's done. If she will this will go so much better for you.

One more thought about therapist 7 years ago - maybe it was not for her to become a good wife, maybe it was because she had to deal with pain of loosing her AP (OBS found out and AP threw her under the bus?)?

Good luck in confrontation. I hope you will be spared a lot of lies and TT.

I was thinking the same thing as DHH: maybe Michael died or grew a conscience and dumped her?

AO

You’ve received great advice and you have a big task of front of you. You are going to do a GREAT job and we are rooting for your success with every fiber of our anonymous internet friends fiber.