It seems to me that some of you ladies are trying to make it into a womens rights issue when it isn't.
I agree. If we want to frame it that way; I absolutely agree, it's a woman's right to decide who she wants to give anal sex to. But if that person isn't her H, and is the AP, don't expect the man to stick around to hear about the rest of the rights you feel are justly yours. You do get to decide, that's what this entire thread is about, just understand what your decision is; it's not "Well, I did with AP, but H doesn't deserve it, and I want to R". No, that's not a "right", that's a choice, and it's a choice that will most likely lead to D. A D that a lot of women will say "He just couldn't R"; no, you didn't give it a chance by putting that kind of "limit" on the R process. If you had done for him what you'd done for the AP, you may have been able to R. I can say, for me, and for a lot of men who've posted here, if you're not willing to do that, it's a fools errand to try to R; it's just not going to work. It would be like a guy trying to R while continuing to pay for his AP to go to college, or continuing to sleep with his AP; you can call that "trying to R" if you'd like, but it's almost certain to fail.
Many comments from BH reek of punishment. Is that how you fix this?
This is where I completely disagree. We're talking about sex here people, sex that the WS willingly engaged in. Nobody is on here saying the BS "deserves" to pull out your fingernails and waterboard you. What we are saying is that they are entitled to the best of their spouse sexually, whatever that means the two people in the relationship. Nobody has even suggested at things that are universally distasteful; I won't list them, but "anal sex" is probably the most extreme thing that we've talked about here, and that's done millions of times a day by people who don't have an A in their relationship for fun and enjoyment. If that's "punishment", I guess that we just have a different view of the world, that's intimacy, that's bonding and sharing things with the person you love that don't get shared with others, it's an experience to enjoy together. Yes, it can hurt. So can childbirth, and we all view that as a tender/loving moment between two people. Why is anal sex/swallowing/BJ's/going down on a woman any different? All these things can be unpleasant, but they all also, in general, build intimacy. Are men trying to knock up their wives to "hurt them" or punish them? Because, from every story I've ever heard, childbirth is a pretty horrific experience for women that is caused, directly, by the man for his physical pleasure.
Nvt you are the one framing this as women's rights presumably to allow you to dismiss it as politics gone mad.
It is politics gone mad. Not because "my body, my choice", but because that choice is expected to have no consequences or ramifications for those who are party to it. It's empowerment (good) without any of the responsibility (bad). You have every right to make any choice you want with your body. You do not, however, have a right to expect to explain away and tell men it shouldn't be important that you choose to use your body in a more intimate way with the AP than your H. That's where the disagreement is; if the women were on here saying "Your body, but if you don't want to offer that to your H, you should expect him to D", I could agree with and appreciate that. But that's not the talk track, it's "do whatever you want with your body" and then "your husband should accept that about you". And that's a very different statement, it's absolving people in this situation of culpability for the decisions they make.
She let OM use her as a sex doll. Sex on demand, at work, at parks, in parking lots, at my house ect. She had no problem giving OM what he wanted when he wanted it. Why would she have a problem giving that to me? She intentionally cut me off sexually for 4 years. That's the least she can do in my opinion. I'm trying to make up for 4 years of a sexless marriage. My new relationship must include sex as much as I want now. If not, I'll leave and find someone who does want me in that way. It's non-negotiable.
This is the crux of it, the "male mindset" that many of us are talking about well captured in a few sentences. And there is no good answer to "why would she have a problem giving that to me" that will ever, IMHO, make sense to men. Right or wrong, there's just no way around that reality for most men, and that's the fundamental message that I hope people are taking from this. It's "non-negotiable" for many men (and some women) in R; if it's also "non-negotiable" for you (AP will be the last person who gets anal sex) then your relationship is very likely over. Doesn't make you a bad person, or your H an ogre, it's just a non-negotiable for both of you.
So what about the remorseful WW? Does she get ranked as slut? Or does all of the things a remorseful WS does unimportant compared to some sex act?
I've never seen my wife as, called her, or considered her a slut. She was, however, looking at it from the outside, a complete slut during her A. There's no way around that, it's just what she was during that time. No, I don't see her that way now, but, it doesn't change the fact that she was (or the fact that I would be if I were doing the same to her). Are all the other things unimportant compared to sex? No, not at all. The sex could be spectacular, any fantasy you can dream of every night, and if the WS is still lying/gaslighting/seeing the AP/etc, it won't matter. It all needs to come together. But "sexual refusal" is right below "sleeping with the AP" on the scale of unforgivable sins in R. So, no, it's not enough by itself, but, without it, it's very likely that NOTHING else will ever be enough.
