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The BH is sexually reclaiming his WW

I don't believe a woman's sexuality belongs to her husband.

So if the OM got anal. The BH needs to reclaim

that part of sex back from the OM.

What if the BH doesn't like anal? Does his wife's anus continue to belong to the other man? Or does he need do it anyway?

""The BH needs to reclaim

that part of sex back from the OM."

because it's a battle between the BH and the OM. Jesus.

like the WW doesn't matter. "

You are looking at it from a woman's view.

There is a reason that an EA bothers a man less

than a PA. The reason that a EA bothers a woman

more than a PA.

Men are from Mars and women are from Venus.

BTW, my WW did not have anal sex with OM as far as I know. (and since I technically already went there, it wouldn't be a great example anyways) This is all a hypothetical for me.

I can see how this brushes up against some uncomfortable feelings, I really do. I've really tried to think about this because I don't like some of the potentialities. It should be noted also that I'm only a little over a month out from Dday.

Hard to say what my position will be on this in 6 mos. or a year. I was sure I wanted D yesterday and today I'm just wrecked at the thought of telling my daughter/family (and WW really seems to be changing her ways... like amazing difference after a few talks and her reading some books). She's lined up IC, applied for 3 jobs (jobs I know she doesn't really want). Tomorrow I'll be pissed off because she doesn't call or because I hear our GD wedding song again or just because some woman at the gym gives me a look and I start thinking "f her, I can do better". Who knows, at this rate I can't really guaranty anything about what I'll be tomorrow... I might become a monk and take a vow of celibacy. (ok, I can guaranty that won't happen)

All that said, I feel pretty confident that if I'm not treated pretty damn well sexually (as in better than OM) then R is an exercise in futility.

"What if the BH doesn't like anal? Does his wife's anus continue to belong to the other man? Or does he need do it anyway? "

If the BH does not want it he will not ask for it.

Though when telling her BH about the details of the

affair and she said that she gave OM anal, and even

though she didn't like it she understands BH's need

to get what the OM got. So she ok with doing anal

with her BH now.

The BH will say that's not for me but thank you for

making me the offer to help me heal.

You are looking at it from a woman's view.

I assume your wife is a woman?

The anal sex thing is a good tool for talking about this issue IMO, because it is seen as an extreme/taboo act by most (kind of on the outer limits of what might fall within the realm of "normal" or fairly common behavior among couples). It also, apparently, is something that WW can't wait to do with APs and often wouldn't do with BH.

Perhaps it is more about the nature of the sex itself though. Others have brought up swallowing and I'm sure other things. If I found out she was having porn star sex with OM and wouldn't with me, I would not accept that. If she said to me, "look I did anal... it was really not enjoyable and I don't want to do it again... if you really want to..." I could see being ok with that IF she was still doing the other porn star stuff. Seriously, probably the best thing she could say is "your dick is just so much bigger than his..."

If I accept that a women's participation in these acts is a show of love or being 'into' a guy. Is there then an assumption that women do not actually enjoy these acts for the act? That it's always about showing love or dedication? About pleasing another person?

As into them as the man, no. Into them at all, yes, because they know it's pleasurable for the man, and they get pleasure from his pleasure. If anal sex is to taboo a discussion, just substitute with oral sex, same discussion. Not physically pleasurable for the giver at all, very much so for the receiver. Doesn't really matter what it is, however...

The anal sex thing is a good tool for talking about this issue IMO, because it is seen as an extreme/taboo act by most (kind of on the outer limits of what might fall within the realm of "normal" or fairly common behavior among couples). It also, apparently, is something that WW can't wait to do with APs and often wouldn't do with BH.

This is exactly the reason that I use it at a proxy, because this is so often true. It's in story after story on here, and it's almost always just a few things, anal sex, BJ's, swallowing. Over and over again we see it, WW does it for the AP on the first "date" and refused it to the BH for years/decades. I saw some of the possible explanations before, Madonna/whore, fog, desperation to get the AP to "love" them. And while all of them might be true in some cases, the reality is the same for the BH; it shows your WW was willing to go "further" please the AP than you. Does it mean she loved him more, was more attracted to him, or he just made her so horny she couldn't say no. I have no idea, and never will, as I'm not a WW, but, to me, and to many men, that's exactly what it says.

And, as touchy as this is, it also explains some percentage of male A's because, trust me, guys know this about women. And if you want these acts, in many cases, it's much easier to get an AP (because they will usually do them) than to talk to your wife (because they usually won't). I will absolutely promise you, some number of A's are exclusively for this, even if we narrow it down to just A's with professionals; I know, without a shadow of doubt, that some men are doing it because "I wanted anal sex" or "a BJ" or something else.

Does that mean that women should all do this stuff? No, that's where I draw the line, everyone has free will, and there are some men who really mean it when they say they don't want these act (some, not many, IMHO). But the sad thing, if you choose not to do it with your H, there's a very good chance, if you get into an A; you will be doing it for someone else. I have the evidence in my marriage, and a lot of other men here do too. And it's crushing; more so than any other aspect of my W's A.

I really don't understand. Must be because im a woman. This Alpha/Beta stuff. I thought humans had evolved past that...Guess not.

Just because it (IT being any act with OM) happened doesn't mean IT becomes a pawn to be used against the WW in an ultimatum. Do X, Y, Z or we divorce. Its just turning her into an object to be used to regain your Alpha status?

What about HER feelings?

What if she hated anal with OM? Was in pain?

Just because she did it doesn't mean she should be forced (and yes you are forcing her if you say do it or we divorce!!!) to do it again.

We tell BW that their husbands affairs weren't about anything to do with them. It wasn't how they dressed, or what they look like. The Affair isn't about the BS. Its about the fucked up WS. So why do BH think that the affair has anything to do with their WW making them a Beta?

If a WW has an affair with another woman and I know it's happened, do the BH's here still think of themselves as less than the AP? Or is this just a male vs male thing? Would you still be demanding anal if WW had let her female AP use a dildo?

,

just substitute with oral sex, same discussion. Not physically pleasurable for the giver at all, very much so for the receiver

I must be doing it wrong.

Evolved?

We have evolved in our social manners and society

norms.

Though we are still firmly entrenched through

biological evolution for millions of years the need

to mate for offspring and to WIN OVER THE WOMAN.

Win over does not mean own.

Damn right we are in competition with the ALL men

so that our DNA survives.

“Damn right we are in competition with the ALL men

so that our DNA survives”

You do realize this isn’t the case anymore right? that you can put the lizard brain to rest and not react?

I'm not in competition with any man. Once some dude stick it to my mate, she is his, not mine. I don't want to reclaim damaged goods.

"Seriously, probably the best thing she could say is "your dick is just so much bigger than his..."

I seriously hope that all men don't think that is the highest compliment ever....

I would, first and foremost, like to be known for my intellect, my capabilities, my principles. If my WH said to me that I am much prettier than the OW, but she is far more intelligent and accomplished, I would find that insulting. If he was to say that she is prettier but is nowhere as intelligent and principled as me, that would be less damaging.

Damn right we are in competition with the ALL men so that our DNA survives.

So I assume the A wouldn't matter if the WW was infertile? Or if you were infertile?

Yes, there are evolutionary drivers towards posturing, dominating other men and trying to own women like cattle. All of that served an evolutionary purpose. But part of human evolution is to use our intellect and not be driven by animal instincts.

Holy s there are some humorless people here.

Look I get this is a touchy subject. One that clearly has relatively defined positions along the gender divide. It’s not a pleasant subject, and really, not even an argument. It’s just statement of reality. Real feelings, real irritations. Real hurt. I get it. Some people understand the concept. Some people refuse to see it for what it is. We don’t have to like certain uncomfortable truths to know they are there, but we must nonetheless be cognizant of them. I think most Bh here have illustrated common sentiments about in a very courteous and fair way... doesn’t mean the message doesn’t somehow always come across to others poorly, and the response is then argued against by the BS. Stalemate. but it is what it is. Which is why I advocate for people knowing their limitations to R and their dealbreakers. Nobody can force anything, but if you are a WS, and don’t understand the message here, or rather refuse to accept it no matter now uncomfortable it is, you must make peace regardless with how the M turns out

There is a reason people have divided opinions here, and as inpleasant as it seems, it’s a reality of life, and it shall be, regardless of how we try to dissect it, it just is. If you don’t want accept it, you must also accept that you haven’t Done everything you’re BH needs to heal. Simple as that. You’re not compelled to do ANYTHING you don’t want, but you also lose the opportunity to say you tried everything to save you’re marriage. It’s not good, it’s not bad, it’s a part of the human condition and that won’t change. Despite everything we learn people will still have affairs. The sun will still rise, and the earth will still turn. Men will continue to feel this way, and women will still struggle to understand why... I don’t even blame the genders respectively for not coming to a mutual conclusion... in fact I’d say it’s pretty understandable given the context that we won’t, and I totally accept that.

I just hope it gives some insight to couples trying to R, that the parity aspect is directly tied to self worth, respect, and ultimately R. As they say here, take what you need and leave the rest. Hopefully his discussion has helped some Couples.

[This message edited by nicenomore at 9:50 PM, February 19th (Monday)]

You do realize this isn’t the case anymore right? that you can put the lizard brain to rest and not react?

Put the lizard brain to rest????? Do you know what comes from lizard brain?

Anxiety, depression, anger, guilt, bonding, hunger, fear, fight/flight.

Would you tell someone who is experiencing anxiety, or depressed that they just need to put it to rest? This is raw stuff, that is millions of years old. Testosterone is associated with aggression, as well as sex drive.

Sure, we can use our frontal lobe to reason, and understand where these emotions come from, but the fact that I can understand that it's just my brain telling me that I am hungry, doesn't mean I shouldn't eat.

I promise you, you don't want a world full of men thoughtfully setting aside their sex drive.

Why is it that the women on this thread about WW behavior and ALL ABOUT DEFENDING IT are BW's??? What is going on? You have been JUST AS HURT as we were but YOU are defending the the people who have wounded us??? Have we been defending your wayward's behavior? NO!

We have established that IT IS YOUR right to have control of your body! This is NOT ABOUT YOU!!! This is about OUR wifes, women that have shown that they were totally WILLING to do the act (whatever the act was) and then telling us NO and we are supposed to think that this is them "establishing boundaries"??? B.S.

This is just about keeping the men in a subservient position in the relationship. None of you have tried to explain the thought process of the WW.

We are trying to explain about our pain and you are belittling us for having pain that YOU CAN'T RELATE TO!!! I am embarrassed to have to point out that it is those who have suffered as much as we have that are laughing at our pain. Why?

What does belittling our pain do for you? Does it make you feel better? You, who have been stabbed in the back just as we have, should have to feel the need to dismiss what we feel just because we are men is incomprehensible.

Are men belittling your pain? If so I have missed those threads would you please let me know where to look?

Just saying that to have those who should be our natural allies stab us further makes me sad.

JMO YMMV

Why is it that the women on this thread about WW behavior and ALL ABOUT DEFENDING IT are BW's??? What is going on? You have been JUST AS HURT as we were but YOU are defending the the people who have wounded us???

I'm not defending their behavior. I just don't agree with yours.

A woman has an affair and suddenly it's "do what you did with Ap with me or hit the road".

How does this heal the marriage? Making her your toy to fuck as you please just so that you are Alpha again?

Yes I am the BW. Yes I was hurt. But that doesn't give me the right to hurt my WH. To strip away any dignity he may have left after the destruction he did.

Candyman, you feel belittled by the opinions expressed on here and that's not pleasant.

I don't feel that's an accurate representation of how this discussion has occurred. I am entitled to my opinion as you are to yours. I've been seeking to understand where yours is coming from. And yes, some of those opinions make me feel uncomfortable.

Can you honestly say you've been trying to understand mine rather than just defending your own?

I truly don't see this as an us vs them for any combination of us or them. You are not the enemy. I am not the enemy. Wses are not the enemy. We're all just people.

What dragon said.

Seems to me if the BW are saying it, maybe some thought should be given