SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

However, I admit that I now feel a little less inclined to post here because of just how hard the hits came.

Gently, you posted here of your own free will after reading extensively. How are you surprised by any of the responses to your story?

You are not fragile. Your history shows you have lots of strength. You state you're committed to your course of action. But you say you're less inclined to post. Why?

I suggest that you want to minimize what's happening. And that's a mistake.

Whatever you do in response to your W's As, I hope you don't minimize them or take responsibility for them. To survive and thrive, you need to get into as close touch with reality as possible.

The other thing I'm telling you can never change is that I love her. I know for a fact that I won't stop loving her...

But love is not enough to rebuild a marriage. You need partners who are willing to do the necessary work.

...no matter how much or how badly she hurts or mistreats me, because I know me.

Have you told this to your IC? If so, there's only one good response: you need to value and love yourself in order to love another the way they deserve to be loved.

It's important to protect oneself.. Even though you love your W, she's hurting you more every day, and she's probably hurting your kids, too. Put your own oxygen mask on first.

love is not an excuse for you to allow yourself to be abused.

*****

You say you rug-swept once. You're doing it again. You're blinding yourself to your reality. I don't know what's best for you, but I can say your W is not at present anything but a lousy candidate for R. 'Not divorcing' is a lousy outcome.

Stop stifling yourself.

*****

Your anti-D core value - look inside. Is it really a core value, or does it just enable you to do nothing?

What will you do instead of D? What will you do instead of nothing?

It's hard to argue with unconditional love.

You're at an incredible disadvantage when you unconditionally love someone who, not only dis-loves you, they actually treat you worse than someone they hate, they abuse you and prey upon you, make you suffer-repeatedly.

I have this same sort of unconditional love for my children BUT, I don't let them abuse me. I maintain self protective boundaries that not only protect me, these boundaries also protect our definitive relationship and hopefully prevents them from becoming terrible human beings.

"Unconditional Love" is there really such a thing? I believe so. You see parents of axe murderers who's love never wains but, they WOULD defend themselves if the axe was turned upon them. They would, at the very least, block the blows (boundaries) to prevent injury.

You can continue to love her unconditionally while still protecting yourself.

"Unconditional Love" is also reserved for "Soul Mates". Are your souls truly, mutually mated or, is your soul-alone, mated. If it's the later, your either a Klinger or you're in a co-dependent relationship of sorts.

If she has been your only love since age 15, how did you get so lucky to beat the astronomical odds of finding your soul mate out of a haystack of 4-Billion possibilities, on your first try??? That's a one in 4-billion chance!! Devine intervention MUST have been involved. Why would God fix you up with HER?

Or, could it be more possible that there are thousands, millions of potential soul mates running around out there, alone, lonely, just waiting for a hard loving man such as yourself to come along. Women who would treat right and love you right back equally hard.

Don't deprive yourself of this opportunity to enjoy a true reciprocal love. Life is just too short.

Holdfast - why are you here and why are you asking for help?

You show us your life and everyone is horrified. They understand your predicament because of your religious adherence but you are trying to make the immutable and impossible real. It can not work not matter how much you profess your love or your beliefs. It simply cannot.

Your problem is that one solution creates a problem. A solution to that creates another problem. Rinse and repeat and this is now your life.

Solutions are offered to you but you do not wish to consider them. Other solutions that may fit within the strict bounds of your beliefs are also not to your liking. You are quite literally between a rock and a hard place but the rock is you and the hard place is also you. Yet you complain about being there!

If we could look into a crystal ball what we will see is you remaining married on paper alone - for a time. One day she will move your family away from you and you will have no say in it and any say you do have will be far, far too late. And then not long after she will file for divorce and whether you wish it or not, it will happen.

You will not change your love for her, you will not change the circumstances of how she is leaving your love for anothers love yet you seem to think that this will all magically get resolved if you do nothing.

Sadly you do not know her. You think you do but you don't. This has proven it. She will care for you up until she no longer does.

And that day is rapidly approaching. If I was a betting man I can see why you are in this position and how your wife has left you for someone who only used words to win her away from you.

So why are you here and what do you want? If you do not want to listen to the advice given and wish to do nothing. You are just wasting your time.

I'm going to start doing IC again. I put in a request for an appointment with a counselor last night (through the Employee Assistance Plan from my work).

I've read what you all have had to say. People don't change overnight, but you have gotten my attention and given me a lot to think about, and a lot to talk with the counselor about.

Reality Blows:

You're at an incredible disadvantage when you unconditionally love someone who, not only dis-loves you, they actually treat you worse than someone they hate, they abuse you and prey upon you, make you suffer-repeatedly.

If I may expand on RB’s point, she actually treats you worse than a random stranger, or even someone she hates, because she knows in that case the possibility of consequences exists.

Wow. Just wow. I'm only going to address the "she's a good mother" statement you made because I, more than you, am qualified to quantify that because I am a mother. You are not. I won't address whether you are a good father or not, because I'm not a father, so can't speak to that. I can have my opinion but still, without experience, it's just another useless opinion.

But good mother? Let me be very clear that she in no way is exhibiting "good mothering skills." None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Calling a woman who leaves her seriously ill husband (the day before you went into hospital) during a global pandemic, and taking her children far from their sick father, to meet her lover, is probably the most blatant display of bad mothering I have heard of in a very long time.

The gall to put the burden of "protecting his siblings" on the shoulders of her son is quite honestly sickening for this mother to read. How dare she!

My heart breaks for your children. You and your wife are adults. I'm not worried about you. You've made your choices so will live with them somehow and quite honestly you don't want advice anyway.

But the damage being done to those babies will take years to overcome and believe me, will leave an impact for life in some way, shape or form for each of them. Don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise.

No sir, a good mother doesn't demonstrate to her children it's ok to leave sick daddy behind to meet mommy's new boyfriend. So, no. She is not showing herself to be a good mother, no matter what you say. Actions are all that matter. I don't need to know her history. She cashed in all her "good mother" chips with her reprehensible behavior that will leave life-long consequences for your poor children. Especially your son, for whom I pray for deeply.
I am just so saddened by what they are going through.

I implore you, please seek therapy for them.

Despite the fact that my wife is cheating on me, despite the fact that her A (along with her words and actions surrounding it) has broken my heart into a million pieces, every one of those pieces of my shattered heart still loves her unconditionally. That's the thing about unconditional love...it doesn't have any requirements of the person being loved. It just is, it cannot be broken, it cannot be lost, it cannot be denied, it doesn't end because the person you love doesn't love you back, it doesn't diminish when you're hurt or betrayed.

I hope that you can understand that, dear reader, and accept that this is the reason why our lives have crossed here, yours and mine. Because that's where my story with my wife begins: When I fell in love with her, I was 15 years old. It was as if God himself opened the door to my heart, put her inside, closed the door and sealed it, and then said "there you go, she's yours to love, make sure that you always do."

I feel really bad for you, Holdfast. Really, I do. You sound like such a nice guy, and certainly so much MORE than what your WW deserves. Here's the problem though.. there's no such thing as "unconditional love", not among human animals anyway. We can say our love for our newborn children is "unconditional". It's also biologically programmed, and even then, adult children ARE capable of making you stop loving them. It's not as rare as it sounds either. As human beings, there's only so much we can take. It might be unimaginable to you now, but if your WW continues to hurt you, you're going to stop loving her. You're not an exception to that rule. None of us are.

Here's what happens... We really only have one tool in our arsenal to keep a WS from continuing to hurt us, and that's our absolute refusal to continue the relationship if they won't stop. That's it. One tool. And we choose when to deploy it. The problem with waiting too late is that the WS starts getting really comfortable without us. They're easing their way out of the relationship and into another one. I can't even tell you how many times I've seen it now, and everyone at SI posting the same thing.. "take action!", but the BS is simply too paralyzed and frightened of losing the marriage to do anything. Next thing you know, the WS has broken through the last of their inhibitions about leaving and they're GONE.

People aren't trying to be mean or unkind. What they're trying to do is educate you as to where the dangers are in your plan. The only way your WW doesn't leave you, as things stand today, is if the OM is somehow inferior to whatever it is she's trying to accomplish. She's absolutely certain that she's not going to lose you by test-driving the OM. She's got no incentive to stop. So, what's different in what we typically recommend to people is that a tough stance tends to wake a foggy WS up quickly. They are NOT allowed to get comfortable test-driving an AP. They know that if they don't straighten up and fly right, they're going to lose their home dynamic. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But it's in the BS's control, not the WS's.

When I caught my fWH cheating, he'd been going on Craigslist meeting and sleeping with other women for about nine months. There were several women and various levels of emotional attachment. He actually featured himself to be in love with one of them and they were planning on being together, etc. etc. Then, I found out. I went straight to D. In fact, I told him I didn't even want to hear the details. I'd find us a lawyer and he could separate the banking. I was done.. and I meant it. I went on and did the 180 before I even knew what it was. After about a week, my WH came to ME asking for a month to prove he could be trusted. We'd been married over 30 years; I wasn't in any particular hurry. So, I said 'yes', and before that 30 days was over, I caught him back in contact with that last OW, trying the ol' let-her-down-gently maneuver because he just couldn't stand that she was mad at him. At that point, he had a choice, either "all in" or "all out", and not later on in the nebulous future, but right there and then. He ghosted the OW, came clean, and committed himself to R.

Of course that doesn't happen for everyone. But there's a certain amount of "shock'n awe" in place that can potentially wake a WS up out of their limerence. After my confrontation with him on DDay, my fWH was sure that we were done. He had even sat there agreeing with me that it was for the best. Then, he ran off to the guest room to text the OW, but sometime before the next morning, he had done the math. He wasn't just losing me, although that's a big part of it after 30 years together, he was losing half of everything he'd ever worked for, half the retirement account he'd worked so hard to build, ALL of his children's respect, his self-respect, the respect of family, friends, and acquaintance. Hell, he wouldn't have even been able to keep his dog. It's this SUDDEN onset of reality that can break through the WS's fantasy. It's like a big balloon going "pop!".

No one here is trying to be mean. Even pointing out that cheating and destroying a family is "horrible" parenting isn't designed to be cruel. The fact is, that's some really terrible parenting, not only the destruction of the family dynamic, but modeling betrayal to the kids... betrayal.

That's incomprehensible to me, but pointing it out isn't about being mean. It's about shining a light on what's happening so that you will see the need to take action.

I think you're under the impression that what you're doing is the safest course, but from what I've seen, it's not. Allowing the WS to test-drive the other relationship at your expense allows them to ease their way out of the marriage at their own speed and comfort. They are unimpeded by the onslaught of sudden reality. The fantasy remains intact.

Anyway, those are some thoughts. I really do think you're going to have to do it your own way because I don't think you're ready to accept anything else. I just don't want you to feel put off by all the "tough love" advice, like it's just bitter or mean or whatever. You're really going to need a place where you can get support 24/7 and you'll also need to get a good support network together in real life. You can talk to your IC of course, but you'll also want to identify some key family members and friends who you can rely on. If you haven't already, make an appointment with your medical doctor to talk about stress management and also to get STD testing. Most of us really do end up needing a good support network to get through it.

We all know the pain you're going through, and frankly, it's likely to get worse before it gets better. But it WILL get better. You just have to believe it will. We're all living proof.

Strength to you as you process.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 1:21 AM, Monday, October 4th]

Im so sorry you are here, this whole story is awful! You need to get background info on the AP, he could be using you wife to get to your kids. You need serious IC after you ensure your kids safety! I would use every bit of intel to get custody and get them away from that toxic mother, good luck and even though you love her, grow a set and stand your ground sir! You deserve better

It's hard to see reality while in the fog of A. I spent a long time in that fog, wishing the same things you did. I took a similar path but not as awful as the situation you're in. I did some silly shit to 'try to win her back', took things personally. Since I threw her out and spent years recovering, I can look back and see the reality of it all very clearly. Looking into your situation from having been there, sort of speak, if I were you, the path is clear. You have to let her go. You are not 'a choice'. You never were. You are her husband, her your wife. Bro, she has zero respect for you and your marriage. Let the AP have her. You can still love her and let her go, there's no rule that says that has to change, but it's just the right thing to do, for you, for her. I'm so sorry you are in this situation. Sometimes, it's just a matter of how much pain you are willing to take before you pull the plug on this. I was tough, a glutton for punishment, but her A was just too much, not letting it go, making me a 'choice', and I knew I deserved more. You are not alone, we are all here for you. We've been there and will help you. R is tough and a lot of work, nothing guaranteed and usually unlikely, but from what I've read here, it's time to let go. I'm so sorry bro.

Why in the world do you think so little of yourself that you're begging your WIFE to love you??

Didn't she already decide when she married you?

Now she's trying to decide????

I mean what the fuck???

Decide for her, hand her divorce papers, and let her live in her fantasy world which by the way will be without your kids because she will nor be able to move across country taking them away from you.

Why are you so nonchalant about this??

This woman you call your wife is trying to blow up your kids world.

Ironically the love, patience, and resilience necessary for R to work often get in the way of recovering properly prior to attempting R.

I'm sorry you're here, your WW is in an active A and is not even regretful much less remorseful, make no mistake about it, you need to see a lawyer immediately and protect yourself and your children, I suggest you end this farce of a M, but despite your efforts to the contrary I still think at this point you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to work with, you're simply allowing your WW to test drive her boyfriend, a boyfriend she left you for while you were bed ridden in a hospital fighting for your life (based on that alone I would file for D). Look at your member number, we've "seen this" play out THOUSANDS of times here on SI and other forums, your wW is nothing special but just a run of the mill proven cheater and liar, I suggest you file for D and expose her with All family and close friends without warning, if D papers and full exposure don't shock her back to reality, then nothing will, if so just let D run its course and get out of infidelity.

Yes the advice may seem harsh at times but we try to tell you what we think you need to hear, instead of what you may want to hear, again your case is NOT unique at all, and BTW you mentioned you're a catholic, there's a reason why adultery is specifically prohibited in the "10 commandments", but again I don't want to debate the religious aspect of adultery here but would like for you to focus on her huge betrayal. Keep posting frequently, the collective wisdom of SI could help you go through this difficult situation, we've seen it play out THOUSANDS of times, don't forget to get tested for STDs.

Love should never be unconditional because it perpetuates the idea that all behaviors and actions are worthy of forgiveness, no matter how much harm they inflict on us.

I’ve skimmed the thread so forgive me if I get a fact wrong. I’m only posting on behalf of your children, you can handle some 2X4’s. SpeedBump addressed your wife. You, what do you know about the AP? Done a background check? Domestic Incident reports check? Is he on the sex offenders registry? Do you realize how many pedophiles target dizzy ass women like your wife to get to their children? And your main concern is if whether or not a woman, anyone else with God given sense would run screaming from, wants to choose you over him? You accept being treated as a clown, and think it grants you moral superiority, that’s unsound but you’re an adult, however you have children sir, that didn’t ask to be here, and you owe it to them to protect them, even from their own momma. Life isn’t a RomCom, with the protagonist getting treated poorly for 120 min and in the last 5 min the spouse suddenly realizes what’s been in front of them all along and can’t live without their victim. Accepting abuse isn’t romantic. Make no mistake, your wife is abusing you, your children will be collateral damage. And don’t think because your second oldest stays mute means he’s ok.

Why in the world would your wife start treating you with love and respect? She can’t respect you. It’s simply impossible for her to when you don’t have it for yourself. She knows you’re never gonna leave her, no matter what she does, and she’s a bad person, so she’s exploiting that. If it doesn’t work out with this AP, there will be another. This isn’t a "mistake," forgetting to add the laundry detergent to a clothes cycle is a mistake. Running off with children recovering from a major illness, ripping them away from their father who remains hospitalized, isn’t a ‘mistake.’ She’s doing all of this with forethought. It isn’t love. You love your wife. She doesn’t love you. Besides, most marriages have love, then, in addition, is what makes each individual marriage. Your marriage’s signature is your wife abandoning you in the hospital and dragging your kids over state lines to have sex with another man. That’s what makes your marriage special. I’m not sugar coating it, there’s children involved and this is absolutely nuts.

Have you asked your wife why it is she believes she is deserving of fidelity from her boyfriend, but doesn’t believe you are deserving of it from your wife?

Holdfast

Sorry about this horrible situation your WW is putting you in. Because you want R, I truly hope that's what you get.

But true Reconciliation will not come from the pick me dance. It won't come from rugsweeping either. So please scan over the advice here and try to use the parts that focus on demonstrating strength instead of the pick me dance. Her lack of respect for you is clear and it is seriously putting you at greater risk of her leaving you permanently. The pick me dance only makes that dynamic worse. Taking her abuse lying down will not increase her respect for you and does very little to have her snap out of her horrible choices/limerance.

And love doesn't mean we let those we love jump in the deep end of terrible behavior and then experience no consequences. She is actively destroying the family unit, don't let a term coined by a psychoanalyst get you tripped up in doing what's right for your family and yourself. Father as doormat does your children no good at all. Father who stands up strongly for himself and his family is much better. That strong father can still forgive his WW, but the time and place for that is not now. Now is the time to let your wife know you will not share her. No way, no how.

My wife is has had a number of behavioral issues over the years, and eldest DD and I have been the most negatively affected by these episodes.

I don't think he can handle my wife! I don't think that he's prepared to deal with her variability, and the drama that seems to find her wherever she goes. It would be just a matter of time before he throws in the towel.

I've gotten to live that dream for the last 20 years, even when the dream has been nightmarish at times.

all the other guys were abusers or addicts

she had her first affair, after our 5th anniversary. DDay1 came about from other trauma going on. Rugswept.

Holdfast, I'm hopeful you'll show up at the B&B to reclaim your kids. Now! Do it.

In the meantime, at least you've requested counseling from your work sponsored plan.

In a perfect world, the counselor assigned from the work plan will be trained in trauma. Please do some research on "trauma bonding"and discuss that with the counselor. Perhaps your bond with your wife is not a healthy bond based on mutual respect and mutual nurturing? Seems one sided to me. In her favor. Perhaps your role with your W since you were kids together is to be her "chaos janitor" constantly chasing after her, cleaning up her messes? This caretaker pattern was imbedded in your adolescence when she spent years periodically leaving you, but always kept you hoping; returning even after long periods of time when you "didn't know how to find her". During adolescence your brain was growing and developing. Adapting to the environment you were experiencing. Then came the 20 years of marriage which you spent constantly reacting to her "variability" and managing the "drama that seems to find her wherever she goes." What you call "unconditional love" sounds like trauma bonding to me. Sorry if I'm off on this. Just an impression I get from some of your comments. There's an entire thread on "trauma bonding" in the GENERAL section of SI right now. Please take a look.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 6:06 AM, Monday, October 4th]

1st, stop telling us what you won't do. Simply filing for divorce isn't a sin, nor should be against a Catholics principles, especially since your ultimate goal would be to SAVE your marriage. ACTUAL DIVORCE is what MOST PEOPLE claim their principles are against. Read the life stories presented here and else where, you have to shock your wife back to reality, if it's even possible.

2nd, if your children aren't home yet, GO GET THEM NOW. Stop saying you can't stop it, it's done, whatever. Sit outside the POS's house, call your wife, tell her it's completely unacceptable to take abscond with your children and replace you, or attempt to alienate them with a new dad. When she balks, knock on the door, tell the kids to pack and get in the car. While a lawyer would not give you this advice, nor do I think it's the wisest. Your kids come 1st, and 3 week visit with your kids, while you are in the hospital, while you aren't even separated?????? She's know this guy how long? Want added uumph, show up with your and her family. Set a clear boundary. I'm sure this advice won't be popular. But your kids are watching.

3rd, same advice about protecting kids from this horrible mother. She is exactly that. Doesn't matter how well she's been for 30 years, etc etc..... The ONE TIME she introduces her children to a stranger, who could very well be a pedo. Well, who do you think she is thinking of 1st??? Her affair isn't so great for the kids, but taking this action, directly melds those two worlds together, and is irrefutable evidence to her horrible parenting choices.

4th, You are/were in the hospital, she thinks this is a perfect time to bring the kids up to give you support? Or stick around to help, etc etc?? NOPE, she leaves you high and dry, and is teaching your kids to do the same, Dad's in the hospital, LET's GO ON VACATION, to the OM's house who Mom loves instead.......

Read, dozens and dozens of stories, they aren't ALL the same, but one's like your wife's affair, they are mostly all the same. You can't "nice" her back, waiting isn't going to work, hoping isn't going to work. SHE KNOWS YOU ARE WAITING, SHE IS COUNTING ON IT, YOU ARE HER WALLET, HER BANK ACCOUNT. You have allowed this affair to blossom. I'm not sure you could kick her out, or cut off all the money. But you can keep your kids out of this, you can seperate your money, and work toward a legal seperation. You can make it as difficult as possilbe for her to go take weeks long humpfests with her new toy. And ultimately, if you are resolute about no divorce, you can do everything up to that point with a legal seperation, or something similar in your state.

She's confused, and you see hope in this???? This isn't hope, this is manipulation, she is trying to keep you, cakeeating, duh. Tell her you AREn't confused. A marriage is between 2 people, your marriage has 3 atm, so it actually isn't a marriage at all, despite your principle of death do you part, well, you have no marriage........

Lastly, is a LEGAL divorce the same as a religious divorce? If the County/State you live in, you go to a judge and he signs off on the divorce and proclaims it dissolved, in my mind, this is the Government, and NOT GOD. Get protected.

It's late, I hope this made sense, i don't post much, but taking your kids for 3 weeks(?) to visit the POS, just wow. I hope this backfires hugely on the wife (not backfires in any bad ways for the kids).

Why don't you stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about your kids for crying out loud.

Nobody put a pistol to your head and made you have kids.

Why don't you think about this from your kids perspective. Their mom puts them in a car and takes them across the country while their dad is in the hospital.

They then wind up in a home where they get to watch their mother playing with a strange man??

I'll say it, not only is your wife a horrible parent, but so are you!!

You didn't want to "stop it" because it would anger your wife and she would divorce you??

STOP thinking about yourself and how this affects you and start protecting your F'n kids!!

What your wife is doing is doing nothing but harming your kids mental state and you're sitting back doing NOTHING because you're blinded by this NONSENSE "unconditional" love for your whacked out lying serial cheating wife.

Where is your love for your kids??? You're their parent NOT your 19 your old son.

Here's a thought...GET UP OFF YOUR ASS AND GO GET YOUR KIDS and remove them from your wife's crazy fantasy.

Is what I'm saying harsh? Yes it most certainly is but someone needs to wake you the F up so you can do what's in the best interest of your kids......NOT your wife's best interest NOR your best interest but your kids!!

Your kids need someone to step up and protect them and it sure isn't your wife and you're sitting back letting your wife harm these children which is criminal!!

You came here for advice. Given the situation you don't need to be coddled and pitied. If there were no kids involved different story.

But there are kids involved.

I pity those innocent kids!!

holdfast2, you need to know that the people responding are not attacking you. They are trying to help you. The information you've given us shows that you are being controlled by your emotions, your love of your WW, etc. which is very understandable. Most of the people on this site were in your shoes (roughly). Most loved their WS and wanted R.

Posters are being blunt because you sound like you are making excuses for her TERRIBLE behavior. We are able to look at the situation without the emotions that you have. If you had a friend or a child being treated the way you are, I think your reaction would be very different.

Your attitude towards your WW and your hope that she will come back to the M sounds like you will just rugsweep this A and hope that it doesn't happen again, ignoring the damage it has done to you, your children and your family. I think the people here are trying to help you avoid that, as it will very likely result in your WW having another A.

I hope your IC is able to help you.

The 180 doesn't have to be a threat or a precursor to D. It is meant to help you detach and calm your emotions. This is something you really need. If your WW can take trips to consider whether or not she wants to stay in the M and choose while nailing her AP, YOU can take time to consider whether or not you want to choose HER - the cheater. In order to really consider this, you need to be able to look at the situation without your emotions controlling you. That is why we suggest it.

Why do you accept such terrible treatment? Why don't you deserve respect?

I am very clearly stating to all of you that filing for divorce is against my core values and beliefs

Is paying for your wife to bang another guy part of your core beliefs? If not, then you need to have a long hard think about which belief trumps the other.