SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I re-read this thread. I actually don't think your WW is "torn". I think she doesn't want to be married to you. I think she cares about you as a person and a friend, doesn't like the idea of seeing you in pain, but she's not in love with you and is trying to figure out a way to let you down easy. You are guilty of puffing the hopium pipe, which is the drug of choice of most betrayed spouses. You're misinterpreting her attempts at being gentle with signals of a desire to be married. I'd warn you against this. It will only prolong the pain.

At this point we've been "trying R" since September 2020. Its felt like I'm pulling all of the weight and she has these talks or interactions through work with the AP.

A few weeks ago she told me the "I love you but no in love with you" and she said she thought she should feel it by now. She also said the AP really "understood" her and feels like I just don't. She also keeps bringing up things I did (like not eating a dinner she cooked) from years ago.

She told me yesterday she consulted with an attorney to understand what the process could be - she didn't say where she left it.

Does it sounds like I need to just cut my losses here?

You aren’t even close to R.

She may have put you in limbo but you are keeping youdelf there.

I do not think affairs are illogical. They are perfectly logical: the cheater wants to have me with someone and takes the necessary steps to accomplish this.

Immoral, bad judgement, poor character- yes. Illogical- no.

I hate thinking about cutting losses.

Think about protecting yourself and your kid. Think about the possibility of finding someone who loves you and is in love with you. Think about finding someone who takes responsibility for herself.

Lawyer up, with a good lawyer.

Her AP might be the love of her life or not but here is what you certainly do know . She certainly has little value for you. She might have affection and a connection but not enough to prioritize you as her husband . She is back to being a single woman hunting for a boy friend and you are getting in her way

Now clearly things could happen to favor your R , the AP could die for eg who knows ; but the one thing you should know is you dont have a wife who actually wants to R .

R takes a fully grown responsible adult . She either isnt that person right now or she is and she has deliberately moved on in the most hurtful way because she is pathologically disinterested in your pain .

You really only have one good choice for now - file for D and pursue your own health . If she comes to her senses down the line you can re consider your choices if you feel the need to .

[This message edited by siracha at 5:46 PM, May 1st (Saturday)]

There are some great people on this site . I have learnt so much from their posts but i do have a word of caution here.

Most people are just average and married to average cheaters Hearing from a super forgiving betrayed spouse and super insightful former Ww is really really great for readers like myself with the cheating days far behind me - but not likely to reflect your life or your WS”s thinking . Dont look at outliers and assume they reflect the norm . Most cheaters are simply a bad bet and will only cheat again the second you relax your guard . Factor that into your D or R choices .

[This message edited by siracha at 5:59 PM, May 1st (Saturday)]

Thanks folks. Last night we talked more and she admitted to still loving the AP, and it feels like she wants to be with him. She also said many things to me about how bad of a husband I was...and how none of her friends told her to stay with me.

I had not yet really let out my anger and hurt about the affair either... Just did the "pick me dance" since August.. so I let her have it, didn't try to spare her feelings or worry about her feeling guilt. She kept saying "you won't be able to get over this, there will always be this undercurrent of hurt and anger". I told her that's not true.

We finally stopped talking around 2am and went to sleep, with our 6 year old in our bed.. she kept rubbing my back trying to make me feel better... cuddling me... I guess these are her trying to ease my pain, but not her mind changing.

We are in Missouri where apparently D is 50% split of assets and 50% split of custody. No fault. A friend proposed mediation to me, said it's a lot cheaper and less heartache.

Your wayward has made her decision. She just doesn’t want to tell you the full truth. Which makes sense as all cheaters lie a lot. Drop the hopium pipe or suffer more and longer than is necessary.

Midlife crisis, etc, etc, etc. is bullshit.

Cheating is cheating. There is no excuse for that.

There is no explanation that justifies wayward behavior.

Blame-shifting is when a person does something wrong or inappropriate, and then dumps the blame on someone else to avoid taking responsibility for their own behavior.

A mid life crisis made me cheat? Cmon man. Shes a grown woman. She knew better but didn’t care. Her affair trumps all.

[This message edited by Marz at 1:19 PM, May 2nd (Sunday)]

We are in Missouri where apparently D is 50% split of assets and 50% split of custody. No fault. A friend proposed mediation to me, said it's a lot cheaper and less heartache.

Beware. She screwed your marriage she’ll screw you in divorce if she gets a chance.

Thanks folks. Last night we talked more and she admitted to still loving the AP, and it feels like she wants to be with him. She also said many things to me about how bad of a husband I was...and how none of her friends told her to stay with me.

I had not yet really let out my anger and hurt about the affair either... Just did the "pick me dance" since August.. so I let her have it, didn't try to spare her feelings or worry about her feeling guilt. She kept saying "you won't be able to get over this, there will always be this undercurrent of hurt and anger". I told her that's not true.

I am really sorry to hear this. I think you know what she is saying though. She cannot be a suitable wife for you, and she admitted so herself. Her statement about what a bad husband you were is just either a lie she told herself to make her feel better about her cheating, or foggy thinking on her part. Probably both. Similarly her statement on how you will never be able to get past it. So she told you she has feelings for another man whom she is at least still in an EA with and you are clearly angry with that.....and the problem she is seeing with R is that YOU cannot get past it? Please.

You are right to be divorcing.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 3:39 PM, May 2nd (Sunday)]

IMO your wife thinks you desperately want to stay married to her.

Accusing you of never getting over it is either her way of asking for a divorce...or getting you to commit to rug sweeping and not making her feel bad about being an adulterer (and not fixing herself so she doesn't repeat).

Your wife is in denial about how immoral and inappropriate her behavior was/is. She committed adultery and is trying to blame you/sugar coat it as romance.

Regardless of the marriage, she not only is 100% responsible for her decision to cheat - but she has shown herself to be very deceitful.

She rubbed your back to make herself feel good. To create/maintain the illusion that the marriage was doomed before her adultery and that if you divorce you're parting as friends.

I can't advise you on how to fix your marriage but IMO you should take immediate action to exit from infidelity (including living with someone that loves another man). At a minimum stop sharing a bed.

BTW. Your best chance to get her back/wake her up/ or whatever (if that's what you want)is the same whether you want to D or R.

No crying in front of her or being extra nice.

State clearly that you are divorcing her for adultery ..that among other things she's been: selfish, entitled, deceitful, and lacked empathy for you. You deserve a better life partner.

Make no mistake. It's likely she will cheat again on the next guy.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 4:34 PM, May 2nd (Sunday)]

^^^^. I’d add full exposure too.

Please, please, please, trust me on this, you need to start rejecting her instead of feeling she is rejecting you--no sleeping in the same bed, her rubbing your back, her comforting you. This means she believes you accept that YOU and your bad behavior caused this, so you are just sooo sad that you lost her.

No!!!!!

She is the bad guy, never communicated, never helped you to change, never made you aware BEFORE she emotionally left the M. She bailed! Not you. She had choices here! But you didn't. She is the toxic partner, so treat her that way.

Be angry.

Be disgusted.

Be disapproving.

You are going to regret letting her, and everyone else she tells, believe this false story. You are going to regret behaving as if you have done something to ruin the M. Get angry! Stand up for your morals, your effort, your commitment. Where is hers? That's right, she never had any.

Reject her and out her as the fraud that she is. Do not allow anything from her unless she is remorseful and fixing this.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 4:58 PM, May 2nd (Sunday)]

You'll be married 10 years in October, so if she's making more than you are, make sure you stretch until you've met the 10-year mark.

And if you are the major breadwinner, file ASAP! The 10 year mark sets her up for permanent alimony in many places. If she is in la la land you may be able to move this along. Odds are her lawyer would be well aware of this but it is worth a try if this is what you decide. If it looks like she dragged things out for the 10 year mark and it did go to court, at least the judge would know that. If your lawyer says it is okay, list adultery as your reason for divorce in your original filing.

Sorry she has done this to you:-(. And whatever she said in her complaint session last night, which you will probably mull over, remember she decided to lie, cheat, defraud you. Don't confuse marriage friction with deceit. Two different things here.

FWIW, at THIS point, MO does not have any limits on alimony WRT the length of the marriage. That doesn't mean some courts may not have their own ideas about maintenance with a short, medium, or long term M. It's just not part of the current law that's on the books.

Because maintenance, like child support, is always modifiable upon a showing of a continuing change in circumstances you are better off getting a greater "share" of the asset pie in exchange for no maintenance, than a 50/50 split plus some maintenance that could later be modified (although as a physician, it seems unlikely her income would decrease in a way to warrant reduction, a bird in hand is better than one in the bush, IMHO..... AND there can be a profound psychological negativity associated with maintenance - from both payor & recipient - that probably serves folks better if they are financially able to get assets vs maintenance).

There have been many attempts over the years to change this, so there is something to be said about hitting the 10yr mark before finalizing the D, as a "just in case" the legislature decides to change the current law.

Typical cheater circular logic. The cheater cheats but then blames the D on the BS b/c the betrsyed “can’t get past the affair”. It’s not as though the cheater is doing anything to help the betrayed heal.

Sorry for you. She’s really not worth your time snd effort.

Sorry for you are here.

I read your story and have some questions on my mind about it.

Summer of 2019 she told me a coworker (another doctor, in his 50s) wrote her a love letter but she loved me and was not going to leave me. We didn't really discuss it (first mistake).

Isn't that kind of weird? Why did she say that a coworker wrote a love letter to her, not that she had an A?

Didn't you even ask why you should think she's leaving you just because someone wrote a love letter to her?

then a few days later when I got a message from his exwife

Did you talk to the AP's XW? If not, why? I'm sure she has a lot to tell you about their A, why they divorced, about AP's personality etc.

I wondered what was the problem of this superman who understands your WW so well, leading up to a divorce with his own wife.

I think you are now aware that your reaction to being cheated was wrong from the very beginning; MC, pick me dance, nice her back, not exposing, not much questioning her A etc. These never work.

Her behavior showed from the very beginning that she was not a R material.

She also has talked with my stepmom twice about the situation (she is understanding and wants to support us). Their second talk was last night but she hasn't told me what they discussed.

Why didn't you ask your step mom? Knowledge is power and you hardly ever ask anyone anything.

She also said the AP really "understood" her and feels like I just don't. She also keeps bringing up things I did (like not eating a dinner she cooked) from years ago.

Did she also say what are these things you don't understand? And as I asked above, why couldn't such an understanding man run his marriage? I'm sure he also complained how much his XW didn't understand him.

She also said many things to me about how bad of a husband I was...and how none of her friends told her to stay with me.

What are those things? Did she give concrete examples about this? And are you agree with her?She just spoke and did you listen to her? Didn't you have any answer or reaction to all that she said?

Didn't you say what a good, moral monument wife she is like all cheating wives? Why are you on the defence? She is the one to blame, don't buy her blameshifting. Don't let her romanticize her depraved disgusting A with a POS coworker (maybe he was married too when it started). That very understanding scum proposed to a married woman. And during NC (not sure if there was really an NC) he did his best to bring down a family by forcing to reconnect with your WW. Obviously, his persistent persuasion efforts play an important role in all this. I'm not doing this to say that your WW is innocent. I'm just saying that her AP is just as disgusting and immoral as she is.

And those friends, who didn't tell her to stay with you, were they close witnesses of your marriage, or did they form their opinions based on your WW's narrative? Are they your friends too? Do you still consider them as a friend of you and your M?

Obviously, your wife is rewriting your marriage history and making you appear to be the villain to everyone. Don't buy it. Has she ever told you about these complaints, how a bad husband you were or the other bull shits? You were in the same marriage, did you cheat on her?

Expose them; to families, your and her friends, her coworkers. Tell them all truth. Don't let her show herself off as a love woman. She is not only a cheater but also a liar. By looking like she wanted R, she continued to cheat on you. Now she wants to D as if you were responsible for everything. Getting rid of such a person is not a loss for you, I would definitely not recommend R. But don't let her show you as a terrible person to other people either.

She kept saying "you won't be able to get over this, there will always be this undercurrent of hurt and anger".

What a hypocritical, stupid words! As if she wants to be with you and that is the obstacle.

What was her expectation; your willingness to share her with someone else without getting angry and hurt?

she kept rubbing my back trying to make me feel better... cuddling me...

Don't let her efforts to alleviate her guilt about her A. Treat her as a liar, a cheater deserves. Don't be rude, but don't act as if what she did never happened.

I think you should start doing hard 180 immediately.

Wish you well.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 9:14 PM, May 2nd (Sunday)]

She also said many things to me about how bad of a husband I was...and how none of her friends told her to stay with me.

Don’t buy this bullshit for a second. You were in the same marriage and somehow you managed not to go out and screw someone else. As for her friends, they’ve been getting heaping helpings of this same bullshit for a while. If you’re of a mind for it, you could send them any proof you have of her cheating. See how much support she gets then, or if they’ll trust her around their husbands.

Your M is dead, I would beat her to the punch and have her served without warning, then expose her with ALL family and close friends. Please get tested for STDs, FWIW the A most likely never stopped, they just took it deeper underground, you deserve much better than a proven cheater and liar.

Lawyer up ASAP !!! make no mistake about it this is war and your WW is the enemy, you need professional legal advice before you consider "mediation".

I do not think affairs are illogical. They are perfectly logical: the cheater wants to have me with someone and takes the necessary steps to accomplish this

I don't know if anyone addressed this or not, but they are very illogical.

The most illogical thing I could have done was destroy a good marriage. It was against my best interest, I get angry with me for causing this shitstorm in my life. I betrayed myself by having the affair. That doesn't seem logical to me at all.

What would have been logical would have been "I am unhappy, I should go to IC and figure out a new path". Or, opened up to my husband about it. Instead, I listened to my own distorted feedback loop and made some horrendous decsions that ruined my own life.

I am focusing on the "me" here on purpose. It's not that I am unremorseful towards my actions or what I have done to my husband. I am focusing it that way because you are saying "You want to have sex with someone so you arrange it". That's logical for a single person, sure. But for a married person with kids? Not only is it horrific and a tragedy = but it's really not logical to blow up your whole life.

And, I don't want to start down a debate but there is far more wrong with a person that cheats than they wanted to go out and be with someone else.

Logic would have taken you down just about any other road, including divorce. If I had divorced my husband instead of just being avoidant and acting out, that still might have been illogical as it was still probably not in my best interest. But, it would have been more logical because it would have been honest and straightforward, it would have been less damaging, and it would have been better in my overall interests.