SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The 180 is not a tactic or gimmick to get her back. It is move you take to begin a detachment on your end. You are deeply emotionally connected to your wife (to which you say, well duh, she is my wife). Being this close to your wife is generally a good thing, but in this case, if she is in active affair, which at the very least she is affair curious marked by her behavior, well then, being very close to her is going to cloud your judgment.

What you are doing the 180 for is trying to step back and evaluate things as objectively as possible. Stop engaging with her on matters that don't involve importance like the kids or bills. However, pull back on the "how was your day dear?" and "I love you". Your goal is eventually indifference towards her, which in the short term is not possible.

I understand the premise of this, but as some of the problems with our relationship prior to the suspected infidelity stemmed from me being in parts like a room mate in the first place (less attentive, not showing interest or listening properly etc.), would doing a 180 not just reinforce this to her? Make it seem like I haven't changed and therefore give her more reason to give up on our relationship?

I just feel as if doing a total 180 is almost a nail in the coffin. Perhaps I need to do a "lighter" 180. Trying to detach myself a little and focus on myself, but also show her I'm not reverting back to the person I was a year ago for example?

I will certainly look up my options however. Whilst I really hope this doesn't end in D, it doesn't hurt to prepare. My only issue is I don't really have the funds so it will likely be more my own research.

Usually, 180 is implemented after dday. Since, there is no dday yet implementing 180 now might backfire. So, no need to implement 180 now.

If you become a model husband then she will appreciate it but won't stop her affair. Such people are called cake eaters. My advice is for now to collect evidences through VAR or P.I. Meanwhile, you can also work on your issues. Go to IC and work on yourself.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 5:58 PM, Monday, June 5th]

If she is cheating what do you intend to do about it? It doesn't seem like you have much of a marriage as it is. I can't imagine being in a marriage where:

My wife's phone was protected from me.
That my wife thought it was OK to keep secrets from me.
My wife was lying about where she was and what she was doing.
Told me she didn't want to be married to me anymore.
Was messaging different men and using fake names for them.
Told me she would stop messaging these men and kept doing it.
Was planning sleep overs at friends like she was 12 years old.
Was out partying all night with people not me.
Was keeping me away from those activities instead of planning them with me.

Any of those things above and all together is more than a lot people would tolerate in their marriage and would end the marriage rather than let it continue. Depending on the answer to my first question you can decide what you're going to do. She's obviously cheating, whether or not she's sleeping with someone else may not yet be determined. But does that matter? Where's your line she can't cross?

Usually, 180 is implemented after dday. Since, there is no dday yet implementing 180 now might backfire. So, no need to implement 180 now.

I agree. It's too soon for the 180, IMO.

CandidAd

If you are familiar with the term "boilerplate" -

Your current behavior is 90%+ passive regarding figuring out what your spouse is doing.

She spends a night away for WHAT reason? Do you believe her answer? I think not -

Do you know where (as in the physical location) she "spent the night?" I bet resounding no.

What you relate in your post is "boilerplate" behavior characteristic of a "betrayed" person not taking ANY positive action to figure out what is really going down.

What your SPOUSE is doing is "boilerplate" behavior of a Cheater. Emotional Affair (EA) or Physical Affair (PA) - my bet is she is going down the slippery slope (read "Not Just Friends") or is already run off the end of the slide.

As others had said - your spouse is acting as would a cheater.

And your post says "you are thinking of looking into her activities."

You feel GUILTY trying to look at her phone because she is HIDING her activities. I think you need to re-evaluate the path you are currently choosing to follow.

Others will add to this post - you will do well to read and act as the folks here tell you how "this" works.

Good Luck -

Put the var in the car. You don't think she's the type to talk on the phone...yet I would bet you also didn't think she would cheat.

She's cheating. She's lying to you about who she is talking to on the phone. She's having private conversations with other men. She's lying to you about where she is,and who she is with. And she has told you she won't be home all night,for several nights in the future.

She's cheating.

Don't confront until you have solid proof.

Don't allow her to turn it around,on you,about violating her privacy. Privacy is for the bathroom. It's not so you can have secret conversations with other men.

I would also bet she was cheating already,when she complained and said you weren't being a good husband.

Also don't have sex with her. She could have an std. Make excuses.

If she is cheating what do you intend to do about it?

If I had definite proof, I suppose I’d confront her and go from there. I’d like to think we could reconcile if she didn’t deny it and wanted to work on things. If not, then divorce.

I see what you are saying. I know I can and have been a soft touch in the past. I’m an easy going guy that in general hates confrontation and difficult conversations. I think that is why part of me has considered calling her out right now on the messages and lying about her whereabouts. Almost like I’m ready to stop taking shit, but I also don’t want to act too soon I guess. I really hate that it has become this way since I have never had reason to doubt her in the past, and would never have considered her the type to do this.

Hippo16 / Hellfire

Thanks for the responses. You are likely very right and it does seem I need to do more. The only problem is she very rarely leaves her phone alone, and I would need to figure out the passcode but perhaps it’s workable in the right moment. I will certainly look into the suggestions in this thread.

I’m going to research a VAR/GPS tracker in the meantime. Does anyone have any recommendations by chance?

In the meantime, would you all say it would be justified me explaining my unease in her staying over at a friends and asking her to come home? Or could that just tip her off more or give excuses for her to say I’m too protective etc?

Do you have access to her phone records? I know you mentioned WhatsApp and SnapChat being things you've observed, so it is likely that she is using one of those platforms to call him, so the phone records maybe aren't the best, but maybe at some point it started over traditional phone so you may find a number that she messages or calls in the recent past that suddenly "disappeared" off the phone bill. That to me would indicate that she knew she could get caught and went more underground with it. I've had and used WhatsApp for years prior to and after infidelity and it is a virtual black box for the cheater to hide everything they want.

In the meantime, would you all say it would be justified me explaining my unease in her staying over at a friends and asking her to come home? Or could that just tip her off more or give excuses for her to say I’m too protective etc?

You've already stated that she has outright lied to you about some interactions with her. You could state the truth, that with her being untruthful about her whereabouts and also labeling someone in her phone under a different name, that you are not comfortable with her being out and about without knowing the situation she is going to be put in.

Post infidelity, my wife knows that I support her having a social life and seeing her gal friends, but I am at the point now where I verify her location and I will verify she is with her gals by checking with the gals in the group to verify that she is with them. This is because for me, under the guise of a gals weekend, she spent a three day weekend at Busch Gardens for a lover's retreat where they ended up getting fucking matching tattoos. So yeah, girls weekend or girls trip now has a different meaning to me.

If your wife gives you things about being too protective, just point to the fact that you need to know who and what she will be with in case you need to reach her or something happens at home with the kids. You can also spin it as you are being protective of your spouse because you protect what you value and you value your marriage to her (even if saying that gives you anxiety), it will at least disarm her and her bullshit.

Brother, gently, you know she's cheating. You know it. You desperately don't want it to be true, but you know it.

First thing, let's just get this out of the way...YOU CAN'T NICE HER BACK TO YOU. It just doesn't work that way. Attempting that just pushes her away as she sees it as you being weak and in her warped mind it only further justifies her cheating as she's telling herself that you're a weak man.

While the VAR is a good idea, personally, I'd just call it a day and file. She wants sex with someone else over you? Then let her live her life without any piece of you at all. Separate and cut off all support of any kind to her. Give her the wake up call that she appears to be begging you to give her.

One of two things will happen... she'll either come crawling back to you or she'll detach totally.

Either way you cut out all the middle part and have advanced to go as quickly as possible.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 6:55 PM, Monday, June 5th]

When you get the Var..secure it under the driver's seat, with heavy duty velcro.

Don't buy it on Amazon,of you share an account, or with a card she has access to.

I also suggest changing YOUR passwords to your phone,laptop,Amazon account, etc so she doesn't see what you're up to.

Make sure you log out of this site, every time. And clear your history.

I am a woman who has known women cheaters. That is what you have. It might not have gotten to sex yet but emotional cheating is just as bad.

There are so many red flags in your story. The problem is the excuse that you were not attentive enough. Mature people do not need validation from others. It is nice when it happens but life keeps us busy sometimes. If she is too needy this guy isn’t going to fix her. If she is using EAs to give her some relief then that will be her go to every time she gets down. You can’t fix, or change her.

Don’t try to catch her. Being the policeman in your marriage means it is already over. I think it is time for a grown up talk. I think she is figuring out how to leave with finances etc finalized, or she is still in the honeymoon stage and can’t see more than the end of her nose.

You do not have to put up with it and you shouldn’t. Read 1stwife story sometime. Her husband played her like this. It is grossly unfair.

I think it is time for a grown up talk.

Part of me still thinks of going this route. I’m not sure how much fight I can put into policing or gathering at the moment so I’m still considering my options.

The problem is I’m not sure where to start or what issue to start with. The two main things I foresee discussing at the moment are:

1) The messaging with this person

2) The lying about her whereabouts over the weekend

I can’t help but feel either will put her back up! argh

Thanks, I’ll try and look up 1stwife story. Is there a way to search on here? Can’t seem to find it on first glance.

[This message edited by CandidAd at 8:03 PM, Monday, June 5th]

I don’t have any emotional interest in this, except as one fellow human being to another but you are downplaying the fact that your wife deliberately misled you, what she was doing and where she was going. Also, the fact that you are possibly afraid of confronting her about it. It tells me that she has maneuvered you into believing you have no rights in this marriage. That’s not a marriage that’s a prison sentence. You most definitely have rights and one of them is to not be lied to by the person you were supposed to trust the most in the world. If she cannot be honest with what’s going on in her life, then it’s time for a real heart-to-heart. Talk about where you want to go with this marriage.
If you have time, please read an article called LYING by Jonathan Wallace in the ethical spectacle. It covers the waterfront, and it is so true that when someone lies to you, it takes your agency away. You don’t have the right to your own life.

When you married, did you vow to be "the greatest husband in all respects?" I'm guessing no. Has she been the greatest wife in all respects? I'm guessing no.

Did you seek MC when she laid down her ultimatum that "she was done and couldn't keep going on like this?" All marriages need care and feeding over time. But in many marriages there is one person that expects and gets more than their share of care and feeding. Over time the dreary routine of mature marriage, even one where they get the lion's share of attention, isn't enough to feed that. And they start to notice the pleasure of attention from elsewhere.

Sorry to say but it's likely that she had already set her course back then and the whole ultimatum was just setting you up to validate her "unmet needs" and give her justification.

This isn't happening because you weren't the greatest husband in all respects. This happening because she has something emotionally or morally broken within her.

And I'm sorry but it almost certainly is happening based on the evidence.

Don't be dissuaded by the privacy thing. When you married you vowed to share everything and be "as one." Privacy is a gift that you give your spouse out of love and trust. She has given you plenty of evidence that she does not deserve that trust.

BSs are always at a disadvantage because they cannot conceive of just how completely they are being deceived or the lengths their WS will go to to maintain that deception. The WS is living that lie constantly so they're always wary of any signs that you may be catching on. Meanwhile you're stumbling around tripping over evidence and wondering how that got there.

All the signs we've all seen over and over are there plain as day and we're always going to read that as cheating. Maybe she's sneaking out to casinos with a friend to gamble. Although it's handy that most casinos have a hotel attached. Do you have combined finances? Whatever she's up to, it's wayward behavior to lie about where you are and actively hide your activities. That gives you justification to pull out all the stops to determine exactly what she's up to.

To the VAR and GPS suggestion I'd add a keylogger on her laptop. It's best not to confront until you have evidence of infidelity to *your* satisfaction. It doesn't have to be to anyone else's satisfaction, including hers. If you can't get evidence of infidelity then you may have to settle for evidence of deceit. Evidence of deceit justifies you in setting a boundary to insist on full transparency of her location and communications.

Be prepared for her to play the "I'm done" card again when you do confront. It may be what she wants anyway.

I'd recommend reading "Not Just Friends." The culture has normalized the idea of intimate opposite sex friendships. You need to understand how dangerous that is and that you are justified in putting boundaries around it.

I'd also recommend reading "Cheating In A Nutshell." It is a very anti-R book but it is the only book I've ready that fully explains just how ill-equipped BS are in dealing with a WS. Every instinct you have for dealing with someone you have loved and trusted is used against you.

Do you have the opportunity to follow her when she goes? Maybe pack the kids into the car and go for a drive.

Brother, gently, you know she's cheating. You know it. You desperately don't want it to be true, but you know it.

First thing, let's just get this out of the way...YOU CAN'T NICE HER BACK TO YOU. It just doesn't work that way. Attempting that just pushes her away as she sees it as you being weak and in her warped mind it only further justifies her cheating as she's telling herself that you're a weak man.

While the VAR is a good idea, personally, I'd just call it a day and file. She wants sex with someone else over you? Then let her live her life without any piece of you at all. Separate and cut off all support of any kind to her. Give her the wake up call that she appears to be begging you to give her.

One of two things will happen... she'll either come crawling back to you or she'll detach totally.

Either way you cut out all the middle part and have advanced to go as quickly as possible.

I'm with Golden on this. You have a comprehensive list of crimes against the marriage. The only logical conclusion you can make is that she is cheating. Even if she agrees to stop you still have to deal with all the other crap, invasion of privacy , nights out, lying to you as a default instead of real conversation etc.. The fact you felt bad for checking her phone, as if you did something wrong blows my mind. You have a lot of things to fix. If you're going to deal with all that, then you want to do it with her begging for second chance. Rather than trying to convince her it is not normal for a married couple to have secrets from each other and no access to your spouse's phone. You don't need proof of her sleeping with someone else to either fix your marriage or leave it. Just tell her you know, be strong, and see a divorce lawyer. Just don't believe anything she says, until it starts to sound like the truth.

In the case you absolutely need proof for yourself. If your time, anguish, and head space aren't worth much then try to catch her. If your time is worth something hiring a Private Investigator is probably cheaper in the long run, especially when all they'll have to do is follow her to her "friends" house for the pajama party.

If your time is worth something hiring a Private Investigator is probably cheaper in the long run, especially when all they'll have to do is follow her to her "friends" house for the pajama party.

This. I know you said that hiring a Private Investigator is too expensive. But do it for one evening. Don't confront her until you get the PI's report.

Please do not be Penny Wise and Pound Foolish. Hiring a PI for one evening is well worth the cost. If nothing else it will confirm she is cheating, or else, it will confirm she was telling the truth about where she went.

You need to know.

If I were you I would not confront until after the pajama party.

From what you have posted you do not seem to have any sort of healthy marriage at the moment. I seriously doubt that it can ever be healthy in the future. If I was in your shoes I would be booking an appointment with a divorce/family law attorney.

I know the advice you are getting seems harsh and you seem to be a non-confrontational person. But your wife has backed you into a corner and you need to act. I believe someone recommended "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. This book will really help you.

Here is wishing you the very best.

So I couldn’t help but confront this evening. She could tell something was wrong, pushed me and I decided to go for it. So I suppose this is my dday, if that’s the terminology for it?

First, I confronted her on the messaging the other guy. She tells me that she does "occasionally" and there is nothing to it and she hasn’t recently (despite me seeing the internet logs usage of Snapchat literally minutes before and for the last hour, watching her smiling whilst messaging). I bring up that I’ve seen her at times over the last few weeks and she falls back to the excuse that she is always feeling "watched" by me lately. I explain that none were deliberate. Once recently on the way back to the table in a pub, and once in the car whilst checking my mirrors. I told her that I’m not the one making her feel watched, that’s on her for being secretive.

I then asked whether she was really were she said the other night and she point blank tells me yes. I ask why there was a casino card in her pocket - she says she found it on the floor. I tell her I don’t buy that for one minute and can I see her Uber app to confirm where she went? Nope, she claims she shouldn't have to show it to me. (Why not if there is nothing to hide?) I push some more, and she then tell's me that she left the actual friend she was supposedly meeting to head to the other town to meet up with her work colleagues in the casino. I asked why she lied to me twice, and never told me on the night (She actually told me she was just at a bar when i messaged) and she says because she thought I would be funny about it. Which is rubbish, as I've never ever had an issue with her going out with her friends or tried to control what she did.

Mid conversation, she starts telling me that she was already thinking we needed a trial separation soon but perhaps we need to escalate it to now. She's now saying that she doesn't think she is attracted to me anymore, and that things haven't been right. She feels like she's being watched, and I've been too suffocating (Probably true since I have likely been doing the Pick Me dance unknowingly).

Strangely, I actually feel calmer now than I have for a while. I think getting it off my chest has helped, and the fact she has lied to me yet again has just gone to show how little I must mean to her. She even told me that she doesn't care that she lied to me and feels nothing. So for now I'm on the sofa until tomorrow when we figure out the way forward. Not sure if that's staying at the house or moving out for a bit, but we'll see.

I suppose it's time for the 180!