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AO,

Greive.

Talk to someone you can trust, perhaps your minister or a very close friend.

At this moment, the rush of comments and advice on SI can seem overwheliming. Engage as needed. We'll always be here for you offering heartfelt advice.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 6:18 PM, November 18th (Saturday)]

Take your time, she has had 19 years to think about the affair, and the possibility of you finding out, you have had a few weeks.

Hi AO, your thread has exploded since I looked last and I have not read all the entries. That said I agree with Bigger and WaitedWTL

Just remember, you are driving the bus from here on. If you want her around, or if you want her out of your sight while you process, it’s your choice.

There are some good positive signs. Your WW has done some work on herself. She recognizes that this was way past "mistake" and made some horrible character choices. Sounds like she has been bearing some shame and possibly some pain of her own.

In my humble opinion there is something there to work with. Doesn't mean she's suddenly perfect. Doesn't mean that you even have to accept what happened and "just move on". Nope. Either way you choose will have it's own set of pain. Neither path is easy, but you are definitely driving the bus.

A couple of things. If you do decide to go in the direction of R, since she's done some work on herself, what sort of assurances can she give you? There are no guarantees in this world, but she should be able to tell you what sort of work she has done on herself to make herself a safer person. Frankly if she tells you that she just knows that she will never do it again, that's bullshit. HOW will she never do it again? For example, her boundaries were, possibly still are, shit. She should be able to tell you that she would never talk to anyone about your marriage to outside parties again. She should be able to tell you how she has a boundary to not be alone in the company of other men, or whatever it was that were her things to work on to have better boundaries.

Since this is new to you, she should be willing to do whatever it takes to work with you and help you heal. Her not giving you trickle truth and taking some of your pain was a good start but is barely the tip of the iceberg for helping you through this the next couple of years. There are books that you can read together. Like Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. This is a good book for some of those boundary issues that I mentioned and also will help explain the slippery slope of getting into the affair. How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald is another.

Of course there is seeing the pics and reading what you read. That's very painful and will be challenging to get past either road you choose. Which is why I think you should get yourself into IC. Speaking from experience I've had my own mind movies and have been diagnosed with complex PTSD. Mostly childhood trauma but some from being on the front lines of my mother's affair. EMDR is a type of treatment that specializes in PTSD and desensitizing personal traumas, mind movies, anxiety, etc. I thought it was a bit new agey at first but I can tell that you that it does work. I also have a mild dissociation disorder so it doesn't always work for me but has with some things. EMDR has worked for many others here but not everyone. Something to look into anyway. You are going to need to heal from this and it's going to be tough sledding for a while. Get into IC. An experienced one. Don't be afraid to let the first one go if you don't feel right and find another. First IC I had wasn't very good. I'm with a really good one now and I can tell you as someone who was dead set against going most of my life, a really good IC can do wonders. I've become a believer. Been in for almost 4 years now and I know I have more to do. Yours may not be nearly that long. I have a lot of childhood abuse and neglect that I have been working through.

Also, I can't emphasize this enough... Your WW was in an addicts world at the time she was in the A. The justifications and whatever she wrote about you is bullshit. Her A was not your fault and is all on her. Look at it this way. She not only cheated on you, she cheated on your kids. She stole time from them when she could have been doing other things with them or the family. She brought an affair into the house. Are those things your kids fault? Of course not. No more than it's your fault. Same. The decisions were all hers and all on her so don't go blaming yourself for one second. Ever. She cut all of you out of the decision making process while the A was going on.

You don't have to make a decision right away. You can spend some time figuring out what you want. Check in with that IC. Don't start any sort of marriage counseling until you know what you want. But you may also want to keep communication lines open with WW to see what kind of candidate for R you have on your hands. Or what kind of candidate for D. You are certainly driving this bus.

The important thing is that you don't remain stagnant here and start to move forward which you can do even if you don't know what you want yet.

Wishing you the best on your next steps to healing.

yop

This was physically painful to read.

I can't even begin to think how to give advice. I will only make some observations.

1. Self harm is not the answer.

2. You will need years of therapy to even begin to understand if that is even possible

3. No matter what she says now, you have been plan b forever.

4. Try not to strangle her when she tells you she loves you

5. Know that your wife, if that is what you can call her, is a total, absolute, undiluted, grade A, masterful manipulator and liar.

6. You have been robbed of a life

7. Needless to say, she would still be in the A if things had continued instead of om dying.

8. There is no way to get justice here, which will drive you up the wall.

9. There is simply no way for her to make it better

10. Your wife is as sick a fuck as anyone can imagine. Every day? Everyday for years? For what? Her thrills? The words toxic, monstrous, evil, do not come close. User and coward though......

11. I dunno man. So what that she spent time in therapy? So fucking what? She robbed you of a life so she could play the tramp. For 9 years.

12. If you can stay after this, you are a saint. And we have all seen a miracle.

AO,

For the time being, just look after yourself. Seriously. Just focus on yourself, and your basic well-being. If you have family or friends that you can be with, then be with them. Reach out.

You have experienced a horrible shock, so please be as good to yourself as you would be to another family member who had been through a shock like this.

I really wish a bunch of us could press a button and be with you now.

Rest, make sure you eat and drink, and please do call or message some people that you are close to. Do not worry about any long-term decisions. Just leave them for now. What you should do now is make sure that you are looking after yourself as you would look after your best friend. The rest of it can wait.

I just wanted you to know I'm thinking about you and my heart goes out to you.

OP I am very sorry for what you are experiencing. I keep asking myself the million dollar question:

"What If" he had not died? Can she honestly answer this? Clearly the affair ended because he died (somewhat an involuntary decision for her)

What were her plans regarding her marriage prior to OM's sudden death? For me that's the crux to to where this goes. You became the choice by default because of the tragic circumstances. She mourned his death, and got into therapy but not for the affair but because of her grief due to the OM's sudden passing. She had no opportunity or choice for the affair anymore because she was now an "affair partner widow" (if there is such a term). So she settled out of mere convenience and based on her letters and emails, trips disguised as girls night etc was now forced to stay in her marriage and decided to make the best use of what she had thrown out (you and the marriage). All during this time you were not a player you were in the dark and hence you could not make an informed decision before now. She controlled the outcome and survivability and narrative of the entire marriage up until you found out the truth.

Use the separation to think through all this carefully and then put your plans together. Please keep posting. You have already seen the extent of support here, and you will continue to get much more from here.

Hello everyone.

I decided to check back in tonight and was overwhelmed by the care and concern you all have expressed. Thank you very much.

Due to the upcoming holiday, I was kind of forced to let my DDs know what is going on. I gave them some basic information (minus the pornographic details) and let them know that our traditional Thanksgiving family get together has been cancelled. They were both shocked and angry. DD2 says she remembers the OMs daughter (they were in elementary school together) but doesn't really remember OM.

WW has called and texted multiple times today. I ignored the first few, but eventually responded to ask for a period of no contact. I really need some time to think about where I want to go with my life.

I agree with everyone who says I need to get into IC. As an engineer, I tend to look at situations fairly mechanically (for lack of a better word). The world if full of problems to be corrected in the most efficient manner. While that approach works very well in my business, it doesn't always succeed with relationship issues. Having an objective professional to bounce ideas off seems like a good idea.

Several people suggested confirming the deaths of OM and his family. I was able to do that this afternoon with a fairly simple online search. Names and date match her story perfectly.

I am still having difficulty reconciling my wonderful wife of the past 7 or 8 years and the teenage girl I dated with the duplicitous, conniving, immoral creature in those pictures and emails. Time will tell if I can accept that she is both and still stay with her.

As I said in an earlier post, my state requires one year of separation prior to filing for divorce. I will let the lawyer know on Monday that today is Day 1. I think he will have to draw up formal papers of separation including an agreement of support and separation of property if I choose to follow that path.

Gonna try to get some sleep now. Again, thanks to all for your support.

Telling a poster what they should do or feel in relation to an affair that is no longer occurring is condescending and unproductive.

Don't listen to anyone who tells you what you should do. Your wife sounds like R material IF that's what you want. The good news is you don't have to decide right now. Take your time and do what feels right for you and your kids.

I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Take care.

AO,

I'm glad you finally know everything and have confronted. I'm sorry that this has happened to you. One thing that I think I would find very difficult is knowing that she was planning on leaving. You need to face that. She was going to leave you for him, but he died. Can you live with that? I'm not sure I could.

I would ask her, "how am I supposed to stay with you knowing that you were planning on leaving me, knowing all of the horrible things you said about me, knowing the disgusting things you did with him while you were still my wife?" "how do you live with yourself? do you think you're a fine person?"

I think those are fair questions.

All I can say, is I'm so sorry.

Unfortunately as others have stated, this is all up to you.

If you want to R, you can. If this is a deal breaker, you can't be blamed for that either.

My prayers are with you all.

Take care.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 10:03 PM, November 18th (Saturday)]

A1, every update you post impresses me. You have got your shit together despite it all.

You said one thing I’d like to comment on specifically:

I am still having difficulty reconciling my wonderful wife of the past 7 or 8 years and the teenage girl I dated with the duplicitous, conniving, immoral creature in those pictures and emails. Time will tell if I can accept that she is both and still stay with her.

That will be difficult because there is no denying she has been both. I think you should actually tell her precisely this when the time is right. From an outsider looking in, the scary part is that she plays both parts very well when it suits her to do so.

I will let the lawyer know on Monday that today is Day 1. I think he will have to draw up formal papers of separation including an agreement of support and separation of property if I choose to follow that path.

Good move.

I don't see how anyone can say that his WW is R material bc of the work she's done.

All of her therapy has been bc the love of her life died and she had to learn how to mourn without being caught and how to reconcile within herself how to accept that she's now stuck with the OP.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 11:17 PM, November 18th (Saturday)]

Good move.

I don't see how anyone can say that his WW is R material bc of the work she's done.

All of her therapy has been bc the love of her life died and she had to learn how to mourn without being caught and how to reconcile within herself how to accept that she's now stuck with the OP.

This^100%. Whatever perceived self improvement was made was only for herself, not for A1.

Ambivalentone, You are handling this amazingly well. Big props to you and keep taking care of yourself.

A couple of questions I have for you is during the affair were you the least bit suspicious (I would assume not)?

If you had done any detective work at the time do you think you would have found anything or did they cover their tracks that well? I can't even imagine the acting ability that your wife possesses.

Like others have said, I actually hurt for you. It crossed my mind that your wife, being a SAHM and the AP a SAHD, then for 9 years you and the other betrayed spouse were nothing more than a check book and financial support for their romp thru fantasyland. The only worries they had was where to have sex next. I have no advice for you because the only one who can decide what is best for you, is you. Take all the time you need to make that decision. If it takes you a year, then let it take a year. She had nine years to decide. Only you know what you can live with and what you can't. I will make one suggestion. If you still have the same bed that you had during the affair, then take it out and burn it. Me, I would take everything out of the bedroom that was there during the affair and burn it all or give it away. I would repaint the room and redo the bathroom. Get rid of anything connected with the affair. Buy all new stuff. Unfortunately you, unbeknownst, ran afoul of two axioms. (1) The only way an affair can go undetected is when the BS totally trust the WS. (2) Be sure that the person you would gladly take a bullet for is not the person pulling the trigger. I do truly wish you well.

I’ve never heard of someone being so prepared to be confronted. It must have been all those therapy sessions. It was as if she had been planning it in her head for years. It was just like she imagined until those emails threw her for a loop.

It’s as if she was the OMs widow. She grieved for years and started her penance.

As others have said she is two women. It’s minor but I was touched that you woke up with a blanket over you.

I will let the lawyer know on Monday that today is Day 1. I think he will have to draw up formal papers of separation including an agreement of support and separation of property if I choose to follow that path.

AmbivalentOne

The above is perfect even if you ultimately want to R. Finalize the divorce no matter what happens and never remarry. You could always date or live with her after the divorce.

No longer being legally married would be a concrete consequence of what she did. It’s like a sergeant in the army that screws up and gets busted to Corporal. There is less reason to bring up what they did because everyone knows that they lost a stripe.

I know that would make R easier for me. It would also make R easier on my spouse because I wouldn't have to keep harping on what they did.

Many times a BS looks at their WS having a happy time at a family event and thinks that they are in exactly the same spot doing what they would be doing if they had never cheated. They resent that. If you’re divorced then you can look at them and tell yourself that they are no longer your spouse and not resent them.

Demote her to girlfriend. She failed the wife test but she may be a great girlfriend. Plus you can keep some self respect. It also hurts less if a girlfriend cheats on you.

On a practical note, now is the best time to get good terms in the divorce. She feels more guilty now that she ever will. As time passes she will feel less and less guilty. One day it will be: "I know I was bad but I need the money." Draw up those papers NOW and drive a hard bargain!

Use the fact that adultery is relevant where you live. Plus years married are often used when calculating alimony. I would make the argument that nine years should be taken off the total. You will be paying for your daughters education anyway so get credit for that as part of the deal.

Let her live at her sister's for a year or get her an apartment. (On second thought the sister offered for her to stay as long as she wants. Take her up on that and save money. )

EDIT:

Why do you take photos? You don’t take them of things you’re ashamed of or guilty about. Why do you take photos on vacation? You take them to relive and enjoy the experience.

[This message edited by Michigan at 2:26 AM, November 19th (Sunday)]

Good move.

I don't see how anyone can say that his WW is R material bc of the work she's done.

All of her therapy has been bc the love of her life died and she had to learn how to mourn without being caught and how to reconcile within herself how to accept that she's now stuck with the OP.

I ABSOLUTELY agree on this point.

Also consider...

1. That counselor your WW saw held her accountable for her affair...up to a point. He suggested that she not tell you. Why? I think because the majority of men won't accept it and will divorce their cheating WW. I'm guessing here that the counselor told your WW that at the time. I'm guessing here that she asked her counselor what is the one thing she could do to preserve her marriage, and the answer from the counselor was probably the fact that you should never find out about it.

2. Because she kept quite about it, she robbed you of a decision to stay in a marriage with a cheater. She robbed you of an opportunity to consider leaving the marriage and possibly meeting a woman who would treat you better.

3. If she was so concerned about you NOT finding out, then why in the hell did she NOT get rid of her computer? The very tool she used to coordinate the affair with the OM? And...she kept those two pictures of the OM? Was she really over and repulsed by the OM? Or, did she want an everlasting memento of the asshole, perhaps after you passed away and she can boot up that computer and reminisce about her dual lives?

Just divorce.

The level of cruelty your wife displayed during her affair is unimaginable. I have read many stories here, and the details of your WW's affair is one of the most brutal ones I've read

What would have happened if the OM didn't die ?

During all the years where she was having sex with OM EVERYDAY, how often did you, as her HUSBAND actually get to have sex her ?

Not to mention the things she spoke about you. Sure, she may wail about it now but REMEMBER she was also the same person that wrote those things.

Never forget, the only reason you are having a devoted wife now is BECAUSE THE OM DIED !

Ask yourself if her recent 8/9 years of devotion is enough to overcome her 8/9 years of treachery. If I were in your shoes, it certainly would not be.

She had always felt pressure from her family to be perfect, walk the straight and narrow. No rebellion was tolerated by her parents.

She ended by saying she knows she can never make this up to me. But she has now devoted her life to our family and me.

AmbivalentOne

It all fits. She was forced to be the perfect daughter, wife and mother. Then she went wild for nine years. Then circumstances forced her to return to her old way of acting. She has two roles that she plays very well. I wonder which one is the real her?

Having sex in the church basement must have been a real turn on. You could have looked like Brad Pitt and had a ten inch Johnson. No husband could compete with that in the bedroom at home, especially with someone that wanted to be a naughty girl.

[This message edited by Michigan at 1:22 PM, November 19th (Sunday)]