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Just Found Out :
Secret 33 years, confession recent

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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 2:35 AM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

Don’t answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are.

Can we stop this tit-for-tat and allow Mrplspls to have this space for his situation?

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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steadychevy ( member #42608) posted at 2:40 AM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

That's so generous of you. Everyone else has nothing but time on their hands because they don't do anything else. X100.

BH(me)72(now); XWW 64; M 42 yrsDDay1-01/09/13;DDay2-26/10/13;DDay3-19/12/13;DDay4-21/01/14LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW 4 years; "dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, liesSeparated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

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fareast ( Moderator #61555) posted at 2:57 AM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

“So the 2020 confession was not offered freely, i became obsessed and asked a 100 questions. She confessed with great reluctance. Her reasons for the looooooooong secret? Why provoke me and risk abandonment? Why hurt me? Why confess to something that she only feels remorse, regret and hatred for? That she had made the biggest mistake of her life, had ended it and devoted herself to the husband she had always loved.

She is not my enemy, she is my wife and the love of my life. She had to carry a regret and a guilty shame. She understands that her confession should have been timely. Now she shares her secret with me. With help we hope to resolve our past and build towards our future.”

M1965. Thanks for your input. You have been heard. I get it. It will fall on deaf ears.

mrplspls you have said your WW carries regret and shame for her actions. You are right, at this point in your life, she is not your enemy. She is the love of your life. But she has to help you deal with the pain and repercussions of her long held deception. You have not shared what she is doing to empathize with the pain she has caused you. How is she helping? Is she there to answer your questions? Is she sensitive to your triggers? This has to be a joint effort. Have you researched retrouvaille or other counseling? You simply can not say: “oh well, it was thirty years ago, I’ll just let it go.”

You can come out of this with a stronger M, but it takes honesty and real commitment. Communicate. Good luck.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 2:58 AM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

You do you, M1965. I’ll be me. The hectoring and scolding seems like a thread jack and highly unhelpful to OP

Thumos,

Yes, I did go out of my way to make a point, but the motivation was for all of us to focus our experience and intelligence on ways for Mrplspls to start feeling better about things.

I am sorry if what I said sounded hectoring or scolding, but I sometimes feel like banging my head on the table when I spend three hours trying to find something positive to say, and it gets followed up by a brief post that says, "you got cheated on", with nothing positive suggested.

I got cheated on twice, and I know what that feels like. Trust me, I have no bias or desire to make excuses for cheaters.

However, I do feel like giving up when people keep going back to the basics. What are we saying? If cheating occurs that is it, there is no way to continue a relationship?

The reason that I have become so invested in Mrplspls's thread is because I believe he and his wife can finally reach a point of honesty between them.

If that makes me infantile, so be it. I just don't think that endlessly reverting to the cheating is productive.

I am not trying to single anyone out for criticism; I just want to try and focus peoples' energies on how to help Mrplspls out of this, rather than focusing on the events themselves. Cheating happened, nothing can change that, but maybe we can influence the way it is is processed in a way that helps Mrplspls.

[This message edited by M1965 at 9:02 PM, October 23rd (Friday)]

posts: 1277   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
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faithfulman ( member #66002) posted at 3:05 AM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

And your suggestions for positive ways for Mrplsplas to imrpove his marriage are...

The "positive" framing is incorrect from the jump. As is "creative".

And I'll restate it: The number one thing a betrayed spouse needs to "move out of infidelity is... The truth, or as much of it as they can obtain.

The OP's wife is almost certainly holding back significant information and therefore continuing to deny him agency just as she has for 33 years.

And that's what allows a person to begin to move out of infidelity: agency in their own life to decide whether they want to pursue a split or not.

Additionally, it's very good if they understand that cheating is not a "mistake" and the decision to split or not lies with him and not his relatives.

Among other things.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 9:22 PM, October 23rd (Friday)]

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faithfulman ( member #66002) posted at 3:18 AM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

How kind of you. Thank you. I am so glad that I come here after a week of working nine-hour days to try and ease the burden of people reeling in the wake of infidelity to be told that I am infantile. I guess I must be doing it for the huge pay-check.

Huh? What? Your posts repeating "Yeah, but she cheated." over and over again in order to degrade the opinion of other posters, who by the way, work as well, was infantile and unnecessary.

Why not acknowledge that so we can move on?

However, this is not about me. Please, everyone, contribute ideas about how Mrplspls can move forwards positively.

Actually we don't need to come up with a whole lot of new ideas!

What do you mean by "ease the burden"? Offering platitudes?

What do you mean by "positively"? Telling him that after the man she wanted to run off with left town then it was all "real"?

How does this help him? How does this "ease his burden"?

***

You know what will ease his burden? Understanding that the truth is where his path forward builds from.

And that he doesn't owe it to anybody to stay with this woman if he can't accept her betrayals.

And that if he does prefer to try to stay with her, he needs to know what he is trying to reconcile with.

That's solid advice. It's not new, or creative, but it is solid.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 9:21 PM, October 23rd (Friday)]

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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 3:26 AM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

faithfulman,

I will let you lead the way to the happy conclusion that Mrplspls deserves.

Over to you. I'm out. Make me look stupid by fixing this for Mrplspls.

[This message edited by M1965 at 9:33 PM, October 23rd (Friday)]

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longsadstory1952 ( member #29048) posted at 5:13 AM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

So anyway, your psychologist sounds like he is trying to get you to look at potential long term by comparison to others that have been in your situation.

Every story is different, but there are quite a few guys who have been in your shoes. As far as I can see most of them stayed, some with less reluctance than other. The common thread is that the first several months after discover is filled with confused anguish, but over time it gets a bit easier.

Camus said that there is nothing so horrible that the human mind cannot accept it. Different context, and maybe not relevant to adultery, but like most guys it takes time to process this. Eventually, you will build a narrative in your own mind that can get you to the place where you are not a basket case. The key is where you feel the wife stops trying to soften the blows and gives it to you straight. You really haven’t said how honest your wife is now, but if you feel she is, it is easier in the long run. So where is she in your opinion?

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faithfulman ( member #66002) posted at 6:14 AM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

Okay. Please list your positive suggestions for how Mrplspls can move forwards and salvage his marriage.

And your suggestions for positive ways for Mrplsplas to imrpove his marriage are...

However, this is not about me. Please, everyone, contribute ideas about how Mrplspls can move forwards positively.

I will let you lead the way to the happy conclusion that Mrplspls deserves.

Mrplspls - starting from a point of trying to "salvage your marriage" or trying force a "happy conclusion" are perfectly natural. They are also the same mistakes every darn betrayed spouse seems to make.

You just had a grenade dropped in your life. Anybody who can tell you that they can "improve your marriage" or get you to a "happy conclusion" is selling you a false bill of goods.

And I don't mean just the misguided statements from the poster above, but any therapist, in-laws, anybody.

You cannot get to the improving your marriage or a happy conclusion until you are able to face exactly what it is you are being asked to accept, and right now, the barrier to this is the trickle-truth from your wife.

I feel that you are now trying to come to grips with what your marriage actually was/is and who your wife was/is.

And to process that YOU NEED THE TRUTH.

***

The point here is not some fairy-tale happy ending, though I do wish that for you, but instead these two goals:

1) Whether you stay with your wife or not, that you can wake up every day and face yourself in the mirror, knowing that you have have maintained your principles and boundaries of what you can accept in your marriage.

2) If you do stay with your wife, you can wake up next to her each morning without resenting her, and that you can truly love the person who she really is.

And as I have mentioned, to reach those two goals YOU NEED THE TRUTH.

Over to you. I'm out. Make me look stupid by fixing this for Mrplspls.

Mrplspls - It is stupid for anyone to think they can fix this for you! Maybe this poster thought he could "fix it for you", but I cannot, and nobody can, as I pointed out above.

What you can do, is learn what you are dealing with, then attempt to deal with it.

You must reject any rug-sweeping or soft-peddling of what has happened in your relationship with this woman.

In order to move through this, you are going to have to stiffen your spine and demand she tell you the truth.

Here are some concrete steps:

1) Tell your wife that in order for it to be possible for your relationship to survive you need a written and detailed timeline of her affair, that will be subject to verification via polygraph.

What do you need in this timeline?

Length affair, how it started, how it ended, was it really only 5 times, did she plan to leave etc.

She needs to state in the greater timeline:

If she ever contacted or communicated with the affair partner again in any way during the course of your marriage

Were there any other transgressions with him since what she admitted?

Were there any other transgressions, emotional or physical affairs of any kind with any other people in the time you have been together before or after this affair?

I know she said all these things too you verbally, but she needs to write them down, so there is no "I don't recall saying that" or "I thought I told you that" or "you misunderstood what I said" bullshit.

When she has written it out, ask further questions, make her answer those as well.

2) Have her take the polygraph to verify her timeline is accurate.

***

My friend, if you cover your bases in this way, you'll find out more of the truth than you ever could otherwise.

Do not be surprised in any way if you learn that there is a lot more to the story. Cheaters lie, and in this case, she lied for decades. Chance are good you have a minimized accounting with important omissions, not to mention mischaracterizations.

There is a very good chance that as you lead up to the polygraph she will give you a whole lot more information, "corrections", etc.

Or she might just refuse, which will also tell you a lot.

***

Here is the thing, some people might simplistically suggest that I am just saying "cheater!, liar!, cheater!, liar!, cheater!, liar!"

But that is not the case. (Though cheaters lie a lot, bank on that)

What I am trying to achieve here is for you to know what you are trying to accept.

If it turns out the original story she told you is true - then you can try to process that and see if you can attempt to continue with her, or if you know you can't, then sadly, that is what it is.

If it turns out that there is more to the story, or more stories - then you can try to process that and see if you can attempt to continue with her, or if you know you can't, then sadly, that is what it is.

But at least you won't be trying to process your own doubts and conjured mind-movies. (Well, at least not as much.)

***

But I want you to know this, it is extremely important: There is no magic wand to "fix" or even improve the marriage your wife has damaged so badly.

On the other hand, there is a magic wand to misery, and that is called "rug-sweeping". You being led in the direction of "it was so long ago", but her love has been "real" all the years since while she was lying to your face are guaranteed to eat at you over time.

Get the truth brother. Demand it. Good luck.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 1:03 AM, October 24th (Saturday)]

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ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 9:37 AM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

mrplspls,

I think the pain of Infidelity follows something like a sin x / x graph (google it for fun). So it diminishes over time, but it ebbs and flows.

What really helps is to have a WW that takes responsibility for her actions.

I don’t think your WW having a “temporary mental health issue” is likely. What is likely is that her boss seduced her for easy fun, she fell for it, allowed it to happen, was ready to leave you for him, but he wasn’t interested.

But it was long ago, so she may be believing her own narrative after all this time.

Your WW should take responsibility of her actions, and help you deal with the damage she has caused.

The question is, what is her attitude towards this mess? What is she doing to help you? Is she owning her decisions and actions?

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 3:40 AM, October 24th (Saturday)]

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

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wifehad5 ( Administrator #15162) posted at 12:15 PM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

Okay everyone, let's get back to trying to support mrplspls.

FBH - 52 FWW - 53 (BrokenRoad)2 kids 17 & 22The people you do your life with shape the life you live

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Oldwounds ( member #54486) posted at 4:19 PM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

Mrplspls -

The strength of this particular forum is that we have all endured the unique pain you're experiencing. The advice upon arrival is frenzied at times because people are trying to help you find the basic stepping stones to get to the other side.

Betrayal behavior is almost exactly the same for each person who makes that choice, it's why some people are speaking with certainty based on their own experiences.

Recovery behavior is very different for each of us. That's why you will see the phrase, 'take what you need and leave the rest' fairly often.

I think some members aren't seeing any information about what your wife is doing to examine her previous decisions, and that's a critical element if you're hoping to rebuild the relationship.

Temporary mental issues is not a new excuse here, a lot of people make that claim to dodge responsibility for what they did.

So, backing up a bit, the first steps back are to make sure you're OUT of infidelity, which is getting as much of the truth back as YOU need to process this trauma.

Once you get that, it's easier to figure what you need from us, from your counselor, your wife, etc.

We all get to the other side of this, whichever path we take.

You'll get there too.

Married 36+ years, together 41+ years
Two awesome adult sons.
Dday 6/16 4-year LTA Survived.
M Restored
"It is better to conquer our grief than to deceive it." — Seneca

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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 7:58 PM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

Mr++,

Here are some additional thoughts that might be helpful.

First, as faithfulman points out, no one is doing you any favors by framing some sort of requirement that we must be positive about this situation.

We don't have to be unduly negative either, but most of us here are far more interested in living in truth in our own daily lives after being betrayed, and in speaking and writing truth at all times given our finite frailty.

The truth can be painful. It can be "negative" insofar as it is not sugarcoated.

I'm not interested in adding to your pain, but I don't think I'd be helping by encouraging some sort of happy-clappy response to a woman lying to for three decades about her inability to remain faithful to you.

This idea that your WW's transgressions are simply in the past is not useful to you in my opinion. The idea that those of us who are following Orwell's dictum to engage in the "constant struggle to see what is front of one's nose" are being judgemental about your wife seems to fly in the face of common sense.

And to not understand and grapple with your present pain and confusion goes directly against the truth that those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

If it were merely in the past you would not be here on SI in pain, seeking advice and perspective. It is not in the past. It is very much in the present.

Adultery is abuse. The reason you are feeling what you are feeling is because your primary, essential, healthy, normal moral emotions are asserting themselves, and causing cognitive dissonance in your cortex.

These normal emotions have now been documented by scientific research and they help form the basis of all human objective morality. They include things like revulsion, anger (healthy anger), grief, suspicion and of course the trauma you are now enduring.

To push these aside is a grave error. They will have their say. You must feel them and acknowledge them and listen to what they might be telling you. They are feelings that demand action of one kind or another. Burying them only insures they will come raging back to you later.

All of this must be reckoned with and it must be rooted out like a cancer or it will continue to metastasize.

It is not condemnatory to say these things. It is simply living in truth.

There's a famous essay by the Soviet dissident Alexander Solzhenitsyn called "Live Not By Lies" - in it, he lays out a plan for dissidents to simply stop cooperating with the culture of pervasive lies that suffused all of daily life in nearly every single moment under communist totalitarian rule.

By doing this simple act of refusing to participate in the nearly all encompassing culture of lying, he felt this would break the back of the Soviet Union.

He was right.

Among the dissident actions he encouraged:

*Will not henceforth write, sign, or print in any way a single phrase which in his opinion distorts the truth.

*Will not utter such a phrase neither in private conversation not in the presence of many people, neither on his own behalf not at the prompting of someone else, either in the role of agitator, teacher, educator, not in a theatrical role.

*Will not depict, foster or broadcast a single idea which he can only see is false or a distortion of the truth whether it be in painting, sculpture, photography, technical science, or music.

I believe the "live not by lies" philosophy he outlines very much applies to the personal nature of adultery as much as it does to the macro level of societal affairs.

On the world stage, interestingly, another model applies to discussions of adultery and betrayal.

The South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission. The Truth and Reconciliation model from South Africa is the healthiest and most straightforward model for achieving authentic reconciliation.

Here's what Archbishop Desmond Tutu, who promulgated the idea, wrote about it:

"True reconciliation is based on forgiveness, and forgiveness is based on true confession, and confession is based on penitence, on contrition, on sorrow for what you have done."

NOTE: Pay attention here. TRUE contrition. TRUE penitence. In other words "metanoia" which is a wholesale and all encompassing changing of the heart and mind, through and through. Without this, reconciliation is well nigh impossible.

"How could anyone really think that true reconciliation could avoid a proper confrontation? After a husband and wife or two friends have quarreled, if they merely seek to gloss over their differences or metaphorically paper over the cracks, they must not be surprised when they are soon at it again, perhaps more violently than before, because they have tried to heal their ailment lightly."

"How can you forgive if you do not know what or whom to forgive? In our commission hearings, we required full disclosure for us to grant amnesty. Only then, we thought, would the process of requesting and receiving forgiveness be healing and transformative for all involved. "

"We must be radical. We must go to the root, remove that which is festering, cleanse and cauterize, and then a new beginning is possible."

"True reconciliation exposes the awfulness, the abuse, the pain, the hurt, the truth. It could even sometimes make things worse. It is a risky undertaking, but in the end it is worthwhile, because in the end only an honest confrontation with reality can bring real healing. Superficial reconciliation can bring only superficial healing."

Do you notice the theme running through these things?

LIVE NOT BY LIES. Healing a transgression requires radical honesty and rooting out of the lies that have lasted decades. It will be painful, but worth it in the end no matter what you decide to do.

I point this out because its clear from what you've told us that you've unfortunately participated in a culture of lies in your marriage. Your wife has confirmed it based on what you've reported to us in subsequent posts. Not only rugsweeping, but deliberately ignoring what was in front of you.

It is difficult to find credulous the idea that a wife telling a husband she loved another man and was prepared to leave would be brushed off as a harmless crush with no implications. It is difficult to comprehend that this never entered your thoughts over the years. It is difficult to countenance that the knowledge of her transgressions did not directly impact your wife's ability to be intimate with you in all ways -- and that had no impact on the richness of the marriage.

I understand the compulsion to rugsweep. I was very tempted to do it myself. And in fact I did do it myself for a short time. I found it tortuous so I can only imagine doing it for a third of a century.

I don't condemn you for this, but the healthiest thing you can do is to stop doing it henceforth and insist on radical honesty from your wife.

The first start was for you to stop covering for her by calling it a mistake. Other steps might include acknowledging that this has in all likelihood damaged the intimacy you could have had with your WW. Additional steps might include walking through some of that to-do list I posted in the first part of this thread.

If your wife is unable or unwilling to bring herself to do these things, you probably need to acknowledge that's a bad sign and indicative of a mindset that is still not willing to embrace honesty and authenticity with you.

Perhaps with radical honesty you can have the intimacy I sense you have always desired with her. But without, I do not hold much hope.

I'm hoping for the best for you.

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:03 PM, October 24th (Saturday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

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 mrplspls (original poster member #75665) posted at 8:03 PM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

Thumos, you make good points, give me some time to absorb and address them.

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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 8:08 PM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

thinking about you and praying for you, brother.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

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 mrplspls (original poster member #75665) posted at 8:12 PM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

Since my wife’s state of mind and willingness has been a logical point of concern, I share one of her letters to me after confession.

Please forgive me, I love you so much and it hurts me to know that my actions have hurt you. I have done many things that hurt you. I know what I did was selfish, wrong and big, and the hurt is

big.

All of the words are horrible: I had sex with OM, I was fucking another man, I was cheating on you, I was lying to you, I was keeping secrets from you, I was being unfaithful to you, I was a slut, I was making you feel like a fool and a cuckold. I betrayed your trust in me. Instead of thinking about you, my husband who loved me so much and would fight for my honour, I did things that now make you feel humiliated. I’m sorry that I didn’t fight for your honour. I should have realized how my behavior would make you feel small and like a Jr. husband, and I understand now why you ask how I thought I loved you. I was selfish, confused and morally

Corrupt

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Oldwounds ( member #54486) posted at 8:23 PM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

A very familiar sounding letter, and the apology now may be intended to be sincere as well.

But how can someone love someone and choose to cheat?

They don’t.

At least not any kind of proper love if we become invisible to them.

My wife used to think she loved me all of our years, but she NOW understands the difference between the word, and the actions that actually show love.

We both had to figure out what love really is versus what we thought it was.

The word I don’t like in that letter is confused.

I don’t think anyone is confused who makes a deliberate choice. If it was confusion, what’s to stop her each and every time she feels confused by her feelings?

She has to figure out why she needed the validation of someone outside the marriage.

What is she doing now to try and earn your trust? What is she doing now to try and make you feel safe?

Married 36+ years, together 41+ years
Two awesome adult sons.
Dday 6/16 4-year LTA Survived.
M Restored
"It is better to conquer our grief than to deceive it." — Seneca

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 mrplspls (original poster member #75665) posted at 8:58 PM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

Good questions.

You and I can agree on the question of love vs. action, but there are those who study infidelity who state that happy people in happy relationships can feel that there love for spouse is strong AND cheat. I will find some links on this.

In terms of my wife, it is really the story of her life. Eldest child, adored her father, who was a serial cheater. Saw her mother as a source of control and wrath ( and not until having children of her own saw the qualities of her mother, saw that the love was marred by the turmoil of injured spouse).

Father left when wife was 15. Father was a moral swamp, but my wife still adored him, while being so hurt and spurned by him. Wife married me, loved me but had strange concepts from father, that sex outside of love was the words he lived by. And his second wife tortured him with.

My wife at 17 had a suicide attempt over her feelings around her father.

I made a lot of assumptions about my woman, my young bride. Thought thaT ceremony, best wishes and young love was enough. Now know we should have been in counselling.

She might have been infidelity inclined, hurt your spouse, before they hurt you.

She was the only female in an all male work environment. Encountered a new boss that was attention, flirt and charm. Looked upon her as his work bonus. She made bad choices. Also have read about “wife poaching” I thought marriage protected, had no idea she was actually more desirable to her young male peers because she Was married.

She is not just a cheater who managed to elude om bad boss and get back to me.

Having kids, growing and maturing, having a 20 year with her dependable mother and seeing her father for the sad fool he truly was has been so much a part of our marriage, so much of what love constancy and fidelity I gave and she offered back for 32 years....

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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 9:52 PM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

so much of what love constancy and fidelity I gave and she offered back for 32 years....

Again, gently, you have no idea if this is true or not and you are going off the word of a proven long-term liar.

A detailed written timeline and a polygraph testing for whether she has had inappropriate contact with other men of any kind during the entire course of your marriage.

You need to know that. Father issues. Serial cheater daddy. Suicide attempt. There's a lot here and we are not professionals. She needs to be with an individual counselor, preferably one who specializes in betrayal trauma to hold her feet to the fire.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

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 mrplspls (original poster member #75665) posted at 10:30 PM on Saturday, October 24th, 2020

She knows I have enough from her confession and writings to walk away today.

I choose to believe it was a perfect storm. A horrible terrible chapter in a long marriage.

Holding her feet to the fire would result in a wife with charred feet.

I happen to love her feet. They walked where they should not have and I will always have that hurt. I can hope her feet have paralleled mine ever since.

Hope and love and mutual honesty and digging towards understanding seems like a great basis for a future. Should she falter or fail ahead, I will not be investigating or understanding, I will be fleeing...

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