SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Again, this would help a lot

I don’t see how this will help you heal.

Have you seen the movie indecent proposal?

I disagree. This is an item on the list to consider for reconciliation and it is seldom offered.

He already has some of the items necessary for reconciliation to be considered in place.

I will support him whichever path he chooses whether he attempts reconciliation or divorces.

If he gets the prenup and his wife is not suitable for reconciliation, I am fine with that as well.

I want what is best for SCP. I will support him anyway I can.

I think mene has raised a number of good points. Someone also mentioned whether your WW has any remorse for the OBS for going into her home and having so much sex. Everything your WW has put forth is that she just wanted to fuck this guy, just for the sex, and all the negative consequences be damned, is so breathtakingly selfish in nature.

Ripped62 is correct that her offer is a legitimate aspect of R, but only a part of it. You need to think of what you want. Time is your ally. Go enjoy the fishing. You will get support no matter wha5 you decide. Some have decided to D for much less infidelity, and some have decided to R after much more. You decide what you want. If you decide that her A is a dealbreaker, file for D and move on. If you want to give it some time use her offer as an opening, first before I consider your offer you will explain to each of our adult children what you did. You will contact the OBS and apologize. You will get IC to 7nderstand your why’s and that is just a start. Food for thought. Good luck.

I'm a finance guy. Divorce normally lovers the standard of living for both parties. If you're younger it doesn't matter as much. Older folks don't have the time to recover.

If you're both set or OK financially it doesn't matter as much either.

There's a lot to think about here. It bears some deep thought.

Good luck whichever path you take.

I’m sorry, but on what planet can a spouse show that much selfishness, disrespect, and outright disgraceful behavior towards someone they purport to love and all of a sudden become R material. She’s not wired right. For her to do that day after day, week after week and be able to look you in the eyes is unconscionable. You are looking at many years of mental anguish to work through this, God Bess you.

Not trying to minimise the affair but I don’t believe this 3-5 times a week for two years. Maybe the first two-three months but that isn’t something a 50 year old and 40 year old would do consistently for two years straight.

He may have something on her. Pictures, videos. She may not want to tell you that. I know it’s a far fetched theory but these things do happen.

And remember this: some married men choose married women to have an affair with because they use it as a double blackmail. He would know that she wouldn’t expose him. Much more for her to lose and he knew that and may have dragged this out longer than your wife wanted to. Again, not trying to minimise her affair. In our society, even today, it’s more of a stigma for a married woman than a married man to have an affair. Not saying that’s right but that is what society sees.

You haven’t told us how they were found out. Did the OBS find out? Did she expose them? You need to contact her to get info and make sure what your wife is saying re NC is true.

How disrespectful for your wife to have so much sex in the OBS’ home! Some people are just morally bankrupt.

[This message edited by Mene at 9:48 PM, September 25th (Tuesday)]

I would go ahead on the divorce part and take the wait and see on the remarriage part.

She needs a lot of IC before you should think about getting back togethe.

Why not just enjoy the fishing with your brother and see where this goes.

There's got to be a cheaper and easier way to accomplish the goal than D and re-M. Recovering from the trauma of d-day takes a lot of energy and focus. So do D and re-M - and they'll take energy away from recovery.

If your goal is R, IMO your best bet is to go directly for R.

The simpler you keep your life at this point, the better for your recovery.

I think your W may be a good candidate for R, if that's what you want.

If you don't yet know what that is, I recommend turning off all the messages about infidelity you've heard during your entire life and figure out what you want.

Don't worry about what other people tell you to do. No one knows your sitch as well as you do. No one knows you or your W as well as you do. No one can diagnose anyone on the 'net. No one except you has to live with the results of your decision but you and your W.

My recommendation: If what you want is attainable, go for it. If your first choice isn;t attainable, choose again, and go for that.

I also recommend: Go for something you think will be good. I expect that will be much better than aiming to avoid pain. Joy comes from choosing life, and that entails risk.

I urge you to take as your goal surviving and thriving. That's a hell of a lot better than just surviving.

OP, you seem to have moved on yet some here keep trying to get you to consider R.

If you feel it happened 5 times a week, then you must assume it did.

You have a remorseless wife who had a serious affair for 2 years, one that as another poster said made you the OM and not her AP.

If you are done with her, then end it but make sure your financial interests are secure through a great attorney.

Any talk of R right now is ridiculous based on her actions of the last 2 years and no remorse.

You need to look out for yourself and file.

What happens later happens.

The re-marriage part is junk. If you were single and you met some woman who cheated on her husband for two years at work everyday, would you marry her ? Probably not.

Understand that if you end this, it's over and the grass is greener on the other side. IMO this board is pro-R and some of the last few posts illustrate this.

It is your decision but I think you have already made that and some people need to advise you on moving forward in the direction you want to go.

Oh shit, I probably started a storm here but I don't give a shit. My thoughts are about what's going to make you heal. Not boosting other's egos

Western:

The OP said in his last post he hasn’t decided what he is going to do yet.

I did not read one post telling him he should R. He is two weeks out from DDay.

Nothing wrong with telling him to file D and move on, the grass is greener;

Nothing wrong with telling him what he should look for IF He Decides for himself to take his time and even consider R.

Everyone is entitled to give their opinion and advice. The OP is perfectly capable of making up his own mind. Whatever works for him, works for me.

Of course you already know all of this. You’ve been here a lot longer than me. Never mind.

I hope the OP spends a lot of time reading other stories on the forums. I fear he is being too trusting and unaware of betrayers' almost universal behaviors of lying, minimizing, and cheating again - and probably before.

I hope he gets legal/financial advice SOON. I'm concerned he has done nothing to secure his accounts.

Mr. Pie, you were lied to for at least 2 years, probably more, and you believed the lie. She knows exactly how to lie to you so you'll believe her. Of course you believed all the remorseful things she said. She's an expert at getting you to believe anything she says.

You have no basis to believe anything she says now (or ever, have you thought of that?).

Stop fishing and go see a lawyer, and a doctor (STD testing) asap. You might want to see an individual counselor too.

I'm sorry you are faced with this situation. I can't really tell you what you should do but I can tell you what I would do. I am retired and we have a very comfortable life. If my wife screwed some other man and offered me a million dollars to come home, I'm not stupid enough to turn it down and here is why. First, I would ensure I had an iron clad agreement, drawn up by an attorney, that ensured the million dollars (in your case property) would not be considered in case of a divorce. I wouldn't get divorced first because things could change in a divorce. Second, coming home doesn't mean I would sleep in the same bed with her, which you already don't. Third, coming home doesn't mean you have to have sex with her. If at some point you decided to have sex with her,then leave out the emotion and love making and just have a good physical f**k. That appears to be what she was after anyway. Go home and consider her a roommate. If you do have sex at some time, then consider her a roommate with benefits. You will have to talk to her ever so often to keep things placated. If she says you have changed then tell her you are having a mid-life crisis. One thing about sex. You can have sex 365 times and on the 366th time you can't physically tell there was a 365 before. Only your mind knows about that. The trick is to not care what she does or thinks, only what you do, what you think and what you feel. You can get out of infidelity without leaving and losing so much. All you have to do is not care what she does. And stop being humiliated. This is not your doing. Have confidence in yourself. I guess I was born with too much confidence because nobody can make me feel unconfident without my permission and I never give anyone that permission. Your wife's AP was younger. Even at my age I could go out tonight and find a younger woman who I could hook up with. So could you. No problem. So some guy has a bigger d**k than me. No problem because I know already there are plenty of women who would be quiet satisfied with mine. You have to believe in yourself and not what someone else wants you to believe or what your mind tries to torment you into believing. Go home and get your house and land. In my life I have been shot, stabbed, cut, blown up and broken several bones and I didn't get a million dollars. You can go home, do your own thing, go to work, and go fishing with your brother a couple days a week. Life is what you make it, not what etiquette says you should do. I love my wife more than anything in the world, but, I have a wife because I want a wife, not because I need a wife. Right now you don't need a wife but you do want to secure your house and land from the wife you have. Go home and do so. Very few are going to agree with my view but that's okay too. It's your life and your money. Also make sure that the AP's wife knows everything that happened. The AP is sure to have tried to lie his way out. I do wish you well.

I agree with fareast. This reply follows what he said.

If you decide to D, your lawyer will tell you what to do.

If you decide to R, you will need a whole lot more than a financial agreement to heal. The good people at SI will tell you a long list of requirements. Things like transparency, timeline, polygraph, is this the first affair? Making her healing you her first priority, remorse, IC, figuring out the whys etc etc...

I have absolutely no idea why your WW would do something like she did. I bet she didn’t think she would get caught. Now she did get caught and she is losing everything. She is offering you money to come back in the hope that once back home, she’ll be able to convince you to stay by love bombing, or HB or trying to heal you or who knows...

I know what I would do but that’s irrelevant. You decide and the people here will give you great advice no matter what you decide.

Right now, you’re in the driver seat. You get to choose what you want when you want. You can even choose something and change your mind later.

I am a big supporter of R, but on condition of D first, where it is practical.

If you are in a state in which a relatively quick uncontested D is possible, then seize the moment and get a D that includes the offer she has made.

I divorced my WW as a prerequisite to R. I would never do it any other way again. It did not make the pain of the her choices, actions, betrayals any less, but I always had the get out of hell card to use at any time I needed without worrying about a protracted or messy D. D does NOT mean you cannot R. You can both agree to try R with sincere intent, after D.

My fWW and I did remarry, $35 in a court house. Having the D card already in my hand gave me some power over the pain and gave me control over my future in a way I would never have had if I would have jumped into R with only hope and the lies of a cheater to count on.

See an attorney, post haste. Get a D. Jump into R with all the sincerity you can muster and then let time and her actions decide if a new rebuilt M is in your future. If she becomes the most remorseful, contrite, empathetic, worthy WW you could imagine, then a prenup, a few minutes drive to a court house, and a few bucks is all it takes to start a new M together. If she turns out to be unworthy of R, you can step out without dealing with the D on top of the failed R. If she refuses to agree to D before R, then get the D without the R and avoid years of trauma the likes of which you have never seen before.

[This message edited by DIFM at 4:55 AM, September 26th (Wednesday)]

For what it is worth, I do agree with Stevesn in that your wife is trying to be honest with you. Sure, there may be more(even much more), but the act of answering all your questions, no matter how difficult the answer, is far more than many waywards offer....ever.

Obviously, the goal here is to get you out of infidelity. To me, that means getting out without unneeded additional pain in multiple aspects--emotional, physical, and financial. If finances aren't a big factor in your relationship, then that is one obstacle that can be discarded. but for many, this plays a huge role in peoples lives as they move forward. If this is true in your situation, then I would definitely advise following through on an agreement that leaves you more financially secure. I'm not saying to come up with an incredibly slanted agreement that leaves your wife destitute(not to mention that it would probably be difficult to enforce), but something that gives you a little extra in your favor.

This is one aspect that can be done whether divorcing or reconciling. It is one less stressor that you would need to endure.

Hi SCP,

There are a lot of elements to weigh up, and the priority you give them may be different to the weight I or anyone else would give them. That is okay; the decision ultimately must be one that you can live with, and which - hopefully - gives you the best possibility for living a happy and stable life.

Forgive me if this is a half-baked solution, but I will run it past you anyway, just in case any part of it strikes a chord with you.

If you are considering returning home, but you are not sure whether or not (1) you will be able to handle that emotionally, or (2) if it will work out long-term anyway, how about this:

- You spend more time at your brother's place, getting yourself back together and letting your wife stew and kick her heels in the empty homestead. You don't have to rush back just because your wife wants you to. You are only in this situation because she did what she wanted to do.

- You suggest to your wife that you co-operate on an amicable divorce which legally divides and redefines the finances between you, including the offer she made of the house and the land. It could be argued that the marriage itself is a broken contract anyway, and if your wife is in a position where she is willing to cut you a deal, I think you should take it. The longer she sits in that house without you, the more amenable she is likely to be to make you a good offer to return. Apologies if I sound heartless in saying that, but I am thinking only of you and your well-being at this point in your life.

- Having gone through with an amicable divorce that distributes and secures the finances between you in a way that satisfies you and guarantees your financial security, you move back to the house, to see if some kind of new, non-married relationship can be established between you. If it can, great; you may rediscover happiness in your life, and your wife gets her goal of growing old with you, just not as your wife. If it doesn't work, you can go your own way, without the issue of a divorce that might be bitterly contested at that point, rather than done amicably now.

My thinking is:

- There is no need at all for the two of you to be married to try and re-establish a relationship and spend the rest of your lives together.

- An amicable divorce now can take care of all the legal and financial aspects to your satisfaction, and would be better than an ugly, contested divorce a year from now.

- You might find reconciliation easier with less of a tie to your wife, in a new relationship dynamic. It might remove some of the natural resentment that goes with thoughts about, "My wife did X, my wife did Y, a 'wife' should not do those things". If you divorce, then there would be an element of, "My wife did X and Y, so I divorced her because of it. She had some consequences and lost her marriage. I showed her there are some things that I will not tolerate".

- If an attempted reconciliation as two non-married individuals does not work out, you are free to walk anytime that it suits you, because the legal stuff will already have been squared away by the divorce.

- With you as a free agent, not legally tied to your wife as her husband, perhaps she would make more effort to be attentive to you and keep you happy. She said that she wants to grow old with you, why not let her do the work required to make that happen by never forgetting that you can up and leave any time that you want to?

It is your wife who does not want to lose the safety-net of the marriage that she had no respect or regard for, but you really need to consider whether that broken legal contract has provided you with any of the security you need, or just a load of legal obligations relating to money and property, and no emotional security at all.

If you are minded to try and rebuild some kind of relationship with your wife, it seems to me that it would be better and safer for you to do so as a free-agent, after an amicable divorce that you request as your requirement for trying again at a relationship. Why go back to exactly the same arrangement? If you are going to go back, why not do so after changing the dynamic such that the property and finances are already legally redfined, and you are free to walk at any time if it does not work out?

Whatever you choose to, I hope you regain happiness in your life. You come across as a really decent guy, and I know that everyone here, whatever solutions they are suggesting for you, are rooting for you and want the best outcome for you.

I can claim to be consistent in suggesting people remove drama from their situations and focus on reality.

I think the divorce-her-now-and-you-can-always-remarry suggestion is not realistic. Too much drama and it’s not based on reality.

Divorce is this strange mathematical enigma where somehow having half of what you already possess half of now always feels less that what it is.

To divorce there are so many things people need to agree on. Valuation of all assets, debts, value and possession of the old couch in the living room and who gets the vase aunt Catherine gave you as a wedding-present. Even an “amicable” divorce is contested because there are always compromises. There is IMHO close to no possibility of a couple standing up from the negotiations/conflict of divorce, shaking hands to seal the deal and then starting to work on how to reestablish a relationship as a couple.

OK – so as a sign of repentance she could sign off all her rights, but if Mrs. SCP were my sister or close relative I would be screaming at her to ensure her rights. A competent judge would stop at an unequal distribution and ensure there is true understanding and acceptance on both parties for the uneven settlement – even IF it was an uncontested divorce.

Yes, I know there are examples of people divorcing and then recommitting, but the opposite is far more common: People divorce and the try to get as far from each other as possible.

I’m not slamming divorce. If SCP wants to divorce he should do so. He should do so despite possible financial hardship because there are other positive emotional AND financial pay-offs and he can minimize the hardships with shrewd negotiations and realistic expectations. Right away his comment about losing half his pension indicate to me that he isn’t clear on how divorce can be done.

Be clear on this SCP:

Just like you would only want your wife to remain your wife if SHE wants to be your wife because of YOU then YOU would only want to remain married to your wife because YOU want her as your wife because of HER. Not because of money, not because of fear. Corny as it sounds then it must be for some form of love.

Divorce if you think you can’t be around her due to her affair.

Divorce if you think you will never again look at her as your true wife.

Divorce if you think that is the best way for you.

All (and more) are very valid and good reasons to divorce.

Divorce as a relationship-rescue mission is a terrible idea.

Divorce as a relationship-termination mission a fantastic one.

I’ll even go one step further and warn against post-nups.

They need to be so extremely air-tight for a judge not to wave them away as being made under duress. A post-nup where she agrees that she might get more equity in the family-home or get the vehicles valued at full market value in lieu of your pension is possibly more realistic. But generally one-sided divorce settlements or post-nups do not sit well with a judge.

Not telling you not to get a post-nup, but DEFINITELY be realistic and follow a competent attorney’s advice on making it air-tight.

LCP – What she shared is not so much different from what I would have expected. It’s probably true. In fact, I think she’s quite spot-on regarding the sex and all that. I think how she never thought you would find out and all that is in line with my comments about a waywards ability to compartmentalize.

A couple of questions:

Was OM also fired?

What was their work-relationship?

I’m asking because it might be relevant to the legality of her losing her job. If you decide to reconcile that could be relevant for financial reasons. If you decide to divorce that could be relevant for financial reasons and your possible financial commitments to her.

She said it was two years. They met at his house 3-5 times per week and had some kind of sexual contact most of those times.

Three to five times a week for two years.

Man, it's going to take a great deal of time for you to process that... a lot of time. Three to five times a week she was looking you in the eye, KNOWING what she had done that day. And the rest of the time, she was plotting more of the same.... for TWO years.

The knee-jerk reaction to intimate betrayal is typically to try and fix it. But you haven't hit the anger stage yet. We get bursts of it early on, but the true, smoldering rage usually hits after the initial numbness and bargaining begin to wind down, like 4-6 months after DDay.

My best advice is to try not to rush into any R or D decision. Do see an attorney though and protect your assets. In some states, continued co-habitation or returning to sexual relations are taken as tacit forgiveness by the courts and will take divorcing on grounds off the table. So, knowledge is power. But in terms of what you're going to want to do in the long-term?... that's probably going to take a long time to assess. Consider giving yourself a timetable on it, like 6 months. You can always change the parameters if you want to.

Stick to using your head SCM. I think her offer is appealing if you consider the long-game.

1. Don't go home until all of the paperwork is completed.

2. You potentially have a small window of opportunity here. Move quickly on the divorce agreement.

3. Ask for everything you want in the divorce agreement. It needs to cover the worst-case scenario. Write it such that you can live comfortably with or without her.

4. Write up and have her sign the re-nuptial agreement but don't re-marry and don't agree to re-marriage. Only agree to seeing how things go.

5. Move back in only after all paperwork is finalized and filed.

6. Only move back in with her as a platonic housemate; separate bedrooms. Do not become intimate with her until after the divorce and only if you want to.

7. Take your time deciding if you want to R.

8. If you're going to D her regardless, don't tip your hand; don't let her know until the divorce is complete and there are no financial or legal ramifications for you.

9. Let her know that R is not guaranteed; you are only allowing her an opportunity to win you back.

10. Never forget that you are the prize now. You were the honest and faithful one. She is now number 4, 5, etc. in line behind your children, brother, other family members.

11. Never forget that any decision you make to allow her make up to you is a gift from you. She broke the marriage vows and lied to you for 2+ years. You have been released of any obligation to do anything for her.

12. Don't waiver from the end goal; saving your ability to retire comfortably.

There are things that I'm missing above but you have a general outline. Keep your head on straight. Set your goal/s and head in that direction. Make choices that have your best interest in mind.

This post may seem cold to some, but it's nothing compared to the coldness to your marriage and faithfulness shown by your cheating wife. Also try hard to avoid becoming bitter. Bitterness doesn't help you and causes others to not want to be around you. Take care of yourself.

I think the divorce-her-now-and-you-can-always-remarry suggestion is not realistic. Too much drama and it’s not based on reality.

For one who has done it.....there was very low drama, and since it happened rather swiftly, it is also based in reality.

Th drama in D is most often in the fight or disagreement that one side or the other puts up. When both sides already have clarity and division of assets agreed, no fight, no drama. Actually, much less drama when you are judging your WS's remorse and honesty without the yoke of a marriage around your neck and a fight later on when they decide to stop pretending and start fighting.

While I understand why it would not be a choice, or not easy for some, in states where the D law support it and where the WS is offering whatever agreement the BS needs, it can be both very possible and low drama, it gets you out of infidelity, and provides an opportunity to make choices based in the here and now and future and not based on the toxic ball and chain that is ever-present and always a factor. You don't have to pretend the M is dead, it is dead.

The question then becomes, not do you "rebuild" a dead M, rather, do you want to enter into a new one....eyes wide open.

[This message edited by DIFM at 11:43 AM, September 26th (Wednesday)]