SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm sure that you can take that all the way:

Or, you can change. At least consider the possibility that I might be right.

Best,

TR

[This message edited by TrulyReconciled at 12:43 PM, January 21st (Thursday)]

Or, you can change. At least consider the possibility that I might be right.

Or it's you that can change and consider that I'm right. Think about what I said and look for the ilusion below the superficiality that you've mentioned. Are you so aftraid to find there the truth? The ultimate one! If yes than examine exactly that fear. It will bring you one step closer to the truth!

[This message edited by MrSpock at 1:05 PM, January 21st (Thursday)]

Rez Ipsa Loquitur.

[This message edited by TrulyReconciled at 1:11 PM, January 21st (Thursday)]

Your response speaks indeed for itself. Only that it still doesn't frees you from exploring what I said. It is an extention of what I said above. It only strenghtens my suspicion and claims

[This message edited by MrSpock at 1:22 PM, January 21st (Thursday)]

MrSpock,

Why do I need to stay? Why should I continue? What are the reasons that I need to reconcile?

Your questions from the first post.

You do not need to stay. You are free to go as you will.

You should not continue if you cannot. What you should do is on you.

You do not need to reconcile. You haven't yet.

You are angry. It is clear in all of your posts. You are angry at many things.

The options are many.

Perhaps the first one should be to start addressing the anger.

Not the superficial anger: wife, dignity, courts, justice, unfairness, stuff, society, attempts at helping you, that you are right, that you are wrong, that you are unhappy, that you are a martyr, that you understand, that you don't understand, honesty, infidelity, relationships, people, ellipsis.

Those may or may not be illusions.

The visible reality in your responses that are stated directly, alluded to, and connoted in your word choices is anger. The bottom line. All logic and wordiness aside.

Address your anger. Explore it as deeply as you can- beyond the superficial all the way to the real source. The source deeper than the infidelity and lack of justice. Those are the skin;the source is the center of the onion.

Considering IC is a good step. Being open to your WW is a good step. They are baby steps.

The anger is your road block.

[This message edited by quedagh at 2:35 PM, January 21st (Thursday)]

MrSpock:

You've gotten what you seemed to want - real life support for not staying.

You've also gotten feedback that tells you you're not fully in touch with your reality.

You've responded to counsel from SIers with reasons for not accepting their feedback. Instead, you've engaged in and invited intellectual masturbation. Stoicism? Deluding and thereby harming yourself is not Stoicism.

The folks who have responded to you simply won't take on your (self-defeating) world view. Doing so is bad for us and for you.

What other support do you want? What support will you accept?

I'm sure that you can take that all the way:

Here's the thing, Spock. You're wrong about yourself. Ordinarily a poster knows himself better than any responder does, but you don't.

I urge you to reread, and take to heart, notperfect5's post.

You owe it to yourself to treat yourself better than you do.

*************************************

BTW, I think it's possible you might withdraw from SI because you think nobody here gets you. If, days/weeks/months/years down the line you decide maybe you can can get some help from SI, don't hesitate to come back.

I've been here almost 5 years, and I've never seen an SIer tell someone, 'I told you so.'

Right now, you're at odds with most of the counsel you've received. That's not uncommon here.

You qualify for membership here, and that plus staying within the guidelines (which is the mod's business, not mine) are all you need to post.

I hope you get what you want from SI.

Dr. Spock, glad to hear you will be talking with your w3ife this weekend. What is your plan for talking with her? What is your desired outcome? Expected outcome? Worst case?

Just copying what I wrote upthread, food for thought...

If and when you do share your inner state with your wife, you need to pause before you start and ask yourself the question, am I getting ready to manipulate her, or am I going to communicate with her? Because there is a big, big difference between the two, and you want to communicate.

She will probably respond immediately with her own life in mind, that can't be helped. But keep communicating with your partner.

As humans, we are constantly changing. Every experience brings new challenges that we have to adapt to....if we are stagnant, we perish!

To use your description of your marriage as a business contract: you entered into that contract without a prenuptial agreement (reasons are irrelevant). Our court system has seen the necessity to go no fault in most states. Your business arrangement has ended. Take your legal knocks if you cannot make the changes necessary to get over her infidelity.

One more thing: I have to believe, on some level, that she already knows how you feel. From your description of your sex life it's clear to me she must know. Hell, all of us are aware just from your description. She's in bed with you. She knows. But, you know what she's doing? She's painting a picture for herself that somehow, some day, you will let go of that horrible night.

I wish peace for both of you.

HouseOfPlane

House, your posts were the most helpful for me in realizing the importance of talking with my wife. Those were your posts that led me to that decision and for that I will be forever grateful to you. I didn't wait for the weekend and have already spoken with her. I had an opportunity to do so before so once I took the decision I didn’t wait and wanted to get it out of me. It became too great of burden. House, we're still together, we aren't going anywhere; we will be doing this differently this time. I still don't know how this everything will end. I'll be all in this. I still have my unanswered questions. Today she is going to answer those that I need to be able to start doing this work. We'll still be searching for the others. If that doesn't work, I already more than know what I want to do. Anyway, as I was reflecting on what is going to happen if it doesn't work, I recalled the final passage from "The Stranger". A book written by the French author Albert Camus! This passage is the exact expression of how I feel about it all and I'm fine with that:

"It was as if that great rush of anger had washed me clean, emptied me of hope, and, gazing up at the dark sky spangled with its signs and stars, for the first time, the first, I laid my heart open to the benign indifference of the universe. To feel it so like myself, indeed, so brotherly, made me realize that I’d been happy, and that I was happy still. For all to be accomplished, for me to feel less lonely, all that remained to hope was that on the day of my execution there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should greet me with howls of execration – Albert Camus, The Stranger (L'etranger)"

House, thanks a lot for your help! We don't know each other but I will always be grateful for that. VS, you helped me a lot too. Thanks. I want also to thank everyone that took his time to help me. I wish you all well!

Good luck, Mr. Spock. I haven't replied but I read (or skimmed - I was at work!) all nine pages. I am so glad you spoke with your wife. Wish you the best moving forward.

Spock,

I read the thread. Our heads complicate when our hearts close off the world.

Sounds as if you are heading down a new path. May peace find you and your family.

I, for one, am going to see much hope in your last post.

Please check in from time to time.

We have a tendency around here to wonder and worry what has happened to our comrades!

It was my privilege to help, and in helping you I help myself. This thread has many deep insights I've learned from.

Full speed ahead!

And we should all keep in mind that when faced with the choice of being right or being happy, there will always be those who choose being right every time.

Good Luck Spick.

Glad to see you open honest conversations with your wife.

I too found your thoughts introspective and very deep.

I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

You also deserve to be happy.

HM

Valentinessucks and happyman64

Please check in from time to time - Valentinessucks

I hope you find the answers you are looking for

You also deserve to be happy - happyman64

I have not really disappeared, forever! I'm still here and reading from time to time. Yet, naturally I will have to concentrate on myself, my healing, in the future. We are going to concentrate on my healing. So, I will have less time in the future to bother you with some of my questions. It's not only the IC but I decided to accommodate a very radical change in my life style that will help me to adapt to my path of healing. So, naturally I will put all of my energy, focus, drive and determination into it. Additionally, although I feel I could benefit a lot from SI, I also feel I cannot repay my debt to the community by helping others. So, it's a little bit selfish. I feel as if my stance creates some uneasiness here among the community members. I am also a type of person that even when asking for help, still maintain his own logic and reasoning as to what is valid, good and not. And it also seemed to me to create a type of uneasiness with my attitude. There were a lot of people who helped me but also those whose advise didn't seem to resonate with me (for others it might be good). Anyway, while accepting the truth that holding everything secrete and not being open with my wife, my emotions or internal life was a mistake, I could not accept the advice that I should stop thinking, being reasonable, logical and rational. On the contrary, I could indeed accept the idea that emotions are as important as my logic. But giving up logic, being unreasonable, irrational and stop thinking, no, that I couldn't accept! Wisdom, not the kind of logic you develop in the academy, namely wisdom as standing opposed to being smart, is not an obstacle to happiness; it is the very heart of this path; alongside with the work of heart and emotions, of course! At first I wanted to write more about our discussion but based on this, I then decided to only give the very basics. So, I'll still have my questions and would seek help, but now I will actually try to come with very specific ones. I'm however happy, HM64, that there are people like you that could learn something from my post and story. It’s a great honor for me and a way to repay my debt for a community that helped me a lot.

Valentinessucks, I will try in the future to update you all on our situation given I have the time and the thread doesn't disappear (in the depth of SI Archives). Unfortunately, there are apparently so much new stories that the older ones disappear very fast. Anyway, here's a short update. Since, I decided to talk everything is now in the open. We talk a lot. Really a lot! There are no taboos more. She also answered my two most important questions: the why and what that I've asked here so much. Her answers were sincere, authentic, heartfelt and most and for most logic! Wise! They made perfect sense to me. Now, I have the feeling that there is a motivation and encouragement for me to try and rekindle my love for her. In fact, to try to build a new one! I know I made a huge mistake, a huge flow in my reasoning, by not talking to her. I have now in the next time to do much more emotional work, but after that I will come back to my logic to perfect it. Now, we can't proceed without an in-depth emotional healing of mine. I think I got a C-PTSD and an EBO from this shit. This is what I'm going to address immediately not only through IC but accommodating a lot of changes into my life style. I really regret it and am very sorry for her. I know today that it was especially unfair to her after all she's done it those 3 years and I mentioned only a small part of it. I didn't think it was possible, but she's now even better than before, she's in more ways for me here than I've ever seen. I'm curious about her plans about me for the future. Look, not everything is roses and there are still deep issues on my part that I need to overcome. Really some stinking shit that plagues me! Yet, first of all she's here to help me and I also begin to process the possibility and how to overcome it. It was especially her humble and graceful reaction as well as the stuff she told that made me feel as if I was sitting a long time in a dark room and suddenly this bulb of light went on and suddenly I could see everything. It is the essence of understanding, knowing and seeing! It was that that was missing and that which I needed.

I wanted at the beginning to proceed with healing while simultaneously draw an exit plan. I've given up on the idea of an exit plan as it would prevent me from being fully here. Right now I'm all in. I owe her to try it. She's making now really huge sacrifices in order to help me. It's a matter of honor, dignity and integrity. As western said, if there is a WW that deserve to be treated well, especially in divorce but also in a reconciliation that is already 3 years long, it's probably her. I take his advice to heart. Today, more than ever, I believe that there could be a chance. If not, in the same way that I'm committed to success now and am going to undergo a deep change in my life style alongside with healing myself, in the same way if it doesn't work the change in my life will be even more profound - if we will have to part our ways. I do hope it doesn't come there. I hope that I can pursue what my heart yearns together with her but if not I'm going to pursue it by a really radical change of putting my old life completely behind me if we separate later. What I indeed learned (for myself) that there is no justice to look anywhere out there. So, if there's no justice, I'm giving up on it. Giving up on justice and being right; I'm going to look for what is wise, not right anymore. And this wisdom is by no means an obstacle to my happiness. This is of course no less true even in the case that I stay. Having been now assisted with all the answers to my questions I can pursue the emotional work based on wisdom and understanding. So, maybe, just maybe, sometimes wisdom, justice and happiness can do find a place under the same roof. Just maybe! In fact, I'm sure.

HM64 and VS

I'll continue to update,

Thank you all,

I wish you well,

MrSpock

P.S.

Swmnbc, Western and notperfect5

Your contribution was extremely important too. I forgot to mention you last time and for that I'm sorry.

Thank you all.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 3:12 AM, January 25th (Monday)]

Awesome post, Mr. Spock!

"Take what you need, leave the rest, from each post," I have often heard. That's what everyone is here for. No expectations. We all have something to offer. I'll bet if we took a poll, we'd find that your thread was quite helpful and informative for many who read it.

So, post, don't post. But do either for YOU. Don't be concerned about expectations.

I am also a type of person that even when asking for help, still maintain his own logic and reasoning as to what is valid, good and not.

Well, it also seems that you are not as wedded to logic, nor as closed off to other's ideas as you think you are! And that's a really good thing.

Logic and emotion have a place in our human hearts.

I wish you and your wife the best.

What a beautiful post.

It was especially her humble and graceful reaction as well as the stuff she told that made me feel as if I was sitting a long time in a dark room and suddenly this bulb of light went on and suddenly I could see everything.

Those light bulb moments are amazing!

I'm so glad you talked to her in a heartfelt way. Holding in your emotions really doesn't do anyone any good. Not that you have to get angry and yell or over-emotional, but you can talk about your emotions in a calm and logical way. When you can say "I felt really angry when you did so and so...it hurt me deeply" that gives the other person room to really hear what you are saying and instead of getting defensive, they are more likely to work with you on a solution.

So glad you are both talking. It sounds like you both CAN make something beautiful out of this mess. Good luck to both of you!

"But giving up logic, being unreasonable, irrational and stop thinking, no, that I couldn't accept! Wisdom, not the kind of logic you develop in the academy, namely wisdom as standing opposed to being smart, is not an obstacle to happiness; it is the very heart of this path; alongside with the work of heart and emotions, of course! "

Mr Spock... I completely agree. I too must contemplate a situation using logical processes, and have found best results when I allow my heart and head to work together. Sure, I experience pain and loss, but I refuse to sit in my self righteous lonliness.

Your wife's affair was a deal breaker. It's as simple as that. You gave it your best shot. Find true happiness!