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change to become wholehearted and a safe partner

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LifeDestroyer posted 8/24/2020 11:25 AM

bet a nice #metoo suit would (a) stop him from being a 'playa' and (2) it might be a further way of demonstrating to your husband your willingness to do whatever it takes

What??? Are you serious? Did I miss where she said he sexually assaulted her or forced her into the affair? Is he at fault here too, absolutely! Pretty much every person involved in an affair has been a "playa." Does that mean we should all start a #metoo suit? Jesus, that right there is why it's so hard for those of who have been sexually assaulted have a hard time coming forward.

Thumos posted 8/24/2020 11:45 AM

Thank you, LifeDestroyer.

Well stated, and I can't believe anyone would try to position this WW as a victim of anything. She entered into a consensual sexual relationship and is a grown ass adult.

You and Carissima are reinforcing my optimism about women (I like women a whole hell of a lot on every single level) and this couldn't come at a better time for me, in all seriousness.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:45 AM, August 24th (Monday)]

Jambomo posted 8/24/2020 13:53 PM

I don’t see a stop sign so hope it’s ok to post as a BGF.

One thing that somebody said to me that rung true was that a relationship is like a mirror, once it’s been smashed, you can glue it together but it will never be the same again. You have to recognise what you had is completely gone. The question now is whether you can rebuild something new or if you both cut your losses and move on, more knowledgable than before.

I agree with the earlier point made to stop talking about how much you live and care about your BS and how you’d never do it again etc. It’s too early, your actions have shown you prioritised other things above him, his happiness and his life, so saying this now twill sound false to him and he’ll simply not believe you.

Chaos posted 8/24/2020 14:27 PM

Reading through all this I get an element of panic from you. Panic that you were caught. Panic that you were going to lose him [first the relationship and then his life by his own hand]. Panic that he won't want you again. Panic that you won't get a chance of R and then panic that it won't take. Panic that you even questioned taking your own life [how serious you were only you know].

Rose - no good decisions ever came from Panic Brain. No lasting practices ever came from Panic Brain. No permanent changes ever came from a place of Panic.

Slow down. You have much work to do on yourself. Your betrayed has much work to do on himself. And all this before you can even think about doing it as a couple - if that even still remains an option.

You have barely scratched the surface of the very large iceberg within yourself of what lead you to cheat to begin with.

Breathe. And figure it out. And keep in mind - this is a marathon not a sprint. It takes time. You can't rush it. You can't control it.

fareast posted 8/24/2020 17:53 PM

This ^^^^^^^^^!! Chaos is spot on, excellent advice!

Sunspot posted 8/24/2020 18:33 PM

Are you serious? Did I miss where she said he sexually assaulted her or forced her into the affair?

As I understand the new rules, any time a man talks to a woman at work, #metoo is on the table if anyone wants it :)

Especially when there's a big power gap.

Count me on team "mess up the OM's life." If it's possible to cause the OM pain legally, who on earth would oppose? It's easy to avoid this, just don't seduce someone's wife.

gmc94 posted 8/24/2020 19:19 PM

Seriously how many times has the “manipulative player” excuse been used by WW’s here on SI?
Change this to:

Seriously how many times has the “manipulative player” excuse been used by WS’s here on SI?
and I'm 100% in. My WH describes his AP as a "femme fatale type" and I still suspect that DEEP down, he still believes she seduced him (and while she may have had more As than my WH - including one with my WH when she was M and he was not - my WH did not "limit" his extramarital activities to the LTA he had with her). The "I was played" is some weak sauce based in malarkey. And it's not only WW that try and serve that up (wonder if it's possible for folks to stop with all the gender stereotyping here?)

And I'm also with those who say WTF as to suing the AP. Won't heal jack for OP OR her BS and, unless he forced OP to have sex or threatened to fire/punish OP, she doesn't have a suit anyhow (and if she were to sue, every bullshit claim that gets filed adds to a perception that many/most/all claims are bullshit too.... as we see with Sunspot's post)

btdi posted 8/24/2020 22:30 PM

The OP still does not get it. The TT has to stop.

I cut contact with almost every single person ("friends" and family) as they gave me pity or cheap advise. Some even turned against my BS and said horrible things about him. At first I did not protect him.

And more post the new and improving me.

I am entirely alone without friends or family and it scares me. (I cut contact with almost everyone due to their twisted points of view)

The abuser normally demonises the victim to justify the abuse in the eyes of others. The question has been asked twice.. What did you tell your friends and family.. but no answer.

[This message edited by btdi at 10:31 PM, August 24th (Monday)]

Pippin posted 8/25/2020 09:59 AM

Rose! I'm so glad to e-meet you. I'll try to answer your questions. I love when waywards ask questions. Have you ever heard the phrase "answers before questions do damage to the soul?" I try very hard to have important questions in front of me and to ask people I trust, and answer people carefully when they have questions in a way that will lead to more questions. Then I'll make a few other comments that I hope will be helpful.

My question: Is there any WS here that have made that change from a "monster" to a "wholehearted person”?

I love that phrase that you are using - wholehearted. Where did you come across that? I got it from a poster who has been on SI a long time, Maia, and from books she recommended. I never called myself a monster but I will say that I have changed from a person whose heart was fiercely protected, damaged, small, and hidden to someone who works hard toward being wholehearted every day. It is a wonderful goal to become wholehearted.

I am posting here to ask for any constructive advice in regards to how to become a safe and strong partner.

I think you have a lot of the answers already embedded in your first post so I'll pull out some things I think you are already onto. You understand that healing yourself FIRST is the most important thing to being a good partner. Yes, absolutely.

I would take the partner part out of your thoughts. Because if you start with reconciliation as your end goal, your mind and heart will find ways to work toward that even if it isn't in your best interest or his best interest. That's where lying, hiding, trickle truth, etc can come in, because you are managing toward reconciliation. If you are wholehearted, you will be a safe partner for him or for another person later on.

On the other hand, there are things you can do that will make your BS's healing easier for him. You should absolutely do those things, with the only goal being doing those things that will help his healing. Staying NC when he requests it. Giving him the absolute truth of what happened. I know you said you can't remember certain details but I would write out every single thing you remember, work hard on remember details that seem elusive, and share it with him if and when he wants. Even the small details can be very important to both you and him. I don't want to divert too much to my story but there was a lie I told my husband when we first started dating - when we were teens! - that seemed like it had nothing to do with anything, and when I told him the truth it gave both of us a lot of insight and really helped him understand things that were important to him. Perhaps keep a journal of your work during the NC times in case he wants to know what you did, not as an accounting but so he can see your story unfold. He may not want to see it and that's fine, but it's there if he needs it. And try hard to understand his perspective, how he sees himself and you and what happened. When you get one insight don't rest on that, there is often much more to understand. And be open to finding other ways you can support his healing, which may change over time, and may not be what you want to do.

I can not become a safe partner while being depressed to the point that I can not function.

Yep, you are spot on there. A depressed, shame-filled wayward does no one any good. Hang on to that.

Advice how to manage NC when you miss you partner so very much. Managing guilt. Has anybody experienced similar situations?

I can't offer as much on this because I was not NC with my husband. It must be really hard. I did have some very hard things that I had to go through that made me feel separate from him so I'll draw from that. Do you know the concept of discipline as teaching, rather than punishment? Discipline that teaches is painful. But the result is peaceful. When you are going through the painful times, think about what you are learning from the pain. I think that will make you more hopeful as it is happening. And sometimes just hang on and remind yourself that it will get better.

I've had much progress over the course of the last two weeks in particular to grow and learn.

Hahaha! I think I wrote the exact same thing at some point in the beginning. And it was true! Every day felt like it held revelations! I sometimes tell wayward friends to think about what their strengths are. I identified things I was good at in other areas (believe it or not, sports played a very big role in how I worked through infidelity) and recruited those things to work for me. In you I see - energy and fight, enthusiasm for the work (that's not quite the right word but you get the drift), searching and searching using all the resources you can find, willingness to make big changes, finding people who will help you (his mother! That is very sweet. Don't forget that at some point she may need to stop helping you). These are wonderful! Keep it up! Keep searching, the insights you have now are the beginning and there will be more as you peel back layers, and the pace may change. No problem, there are stages and each stage is important. I remember when my kids were little and jumping (safely) on the trampoline. They would sit out there together and hold club meetings and even have their snacks on it. Now the trampoline sits out in our garden and has been unused for years. The trampoline stage is over and it would be weird if it continued forever. But there are different things that they love to do now. So be alert to stage changes, remember that until the day you die you will be learning and growing and figuring stuff out, and be ready for the uneasiness that sometimes happens during transitions from thinking you know something to realizing you don't.

The AP is a manipulative player that age wise could be my father.

Yep. I'm glad you can see that. I had the wrong understanding of my AP for a long time and it took an enormous amount of work to see him for what he really was and all the details of the affair for what really happened. Those people are out there in the world. Always have been and always will be. And if you figure out and close off however this one got to you, you still need to make sure there are not cracks left for a different way in. Part of what you are doing is not leaving any cracks for someone to exploit.

I have read many posts on other forums were WS cheated again after sometimes even years of reconciliation. I look at that and it blows my mind. They received the gift of reconciliation and lived with their spouse and then cheated again?!

When you find yourself being judgmental or superior to other people that's probably a clue to look at something deeper. Instead of thinking I wonder what was going on for that person and I hope they find help, you seem incurious and condemning (and in a place where those very people are the ones you are asking for help!). It's probably not at the top of your list of things to fix but bookmark that as something to come back to. When one wayward points to another and says well sheesh I'm not THAT bad, look at her, she's so much worse it's a clue there's more work to be done. It's OK! As long as you are not actively hurting other people you have time to work on all the stuff that will give you a peaceful and engaged life.

Carissima posted 8/25/2020 11:28 AM

The AP is a manipulative player that age wise could be my father.

Yep. I'm glad you can see that. I had the wrong understanding of my AP for a long time and it took an enormous amount of work to see him for what he really was and all the details of the affair for what really happened. Those people are out there in the world. Always have been and always will be. And if you figure out and close off however this one got to you, you still need to make sure there are not cracks left for a different way in. Part of what you are doing is not leaving any cracks for someone to exploit

Sorry but no, it's way too easy to put the blame on the the AP here. The OP is a only a couple of weeks in, she's got a lot of work to do and this - this is an easy out.

Now I'm not someone who believes all waywards have a deep and meaningful reason behind their cheating. Honestly, IMO some people do it simply because they can, because the opportunity is there and you know what if that's the case then that's the behaviour they have to own. The above statement is putting the culpability on the AP and makes the OP into a victim, she's not. The OP chose this, this was not a workplace affair although she knew him from work, she went to his home.

I not trying to be mean here but I don't think it'll do the OP any favours to foster this mentality. The AP may be older but at almost 30 the OP is not some young naive girl, let's not pretend she is.

Rose2206 posted 8/26/2020 21:10 PM

As multiple people here have asked what I had told family/ "friends" about my BS. The answer is:
I told everyone that I had an affair. That everything is my fault and that BS and I separated that he moved out.
My step father (he has cheated on my mom multiple times) responded by basically saying it takes two.. - that there was a problem within your relationship'stuff like that. My mom (practised cheap forgiveness with my step dad and also cheated on my father with my step dad) basically just gave me pity and minimized what I had done (which she is sort of still).People at my old job - same, they actually before the affair told me things about my BS that they thought was wrong etc.. so end of the story: I cut contact with all those people now, including my step father. I am in some contact with my mom but set her straight every time she is trying to minimize what I have done. - she does live across the world and I believe her words come from a place of concern seeing me fall into depression and self hate.
However for the first weeks I did not stand up against any of them. I just let them talk or said: yea. To whatever they said. I since did learn things about myself.
I do agree with all of you that say this is a long process (and it will prob be a life long one)
When I said above that my filter has changed ( I am not saying it is perfect or that I stop working to improve it) but it has changed. I am determined to continue to work on myself and fight to become a safe wholehearted person. That is my goal/ desire.

Some of you mentioned that I need to slow down. That no good comes from panic. And I must agree with you all on that. I even wrote it in my journal multiple times, that panic is taking over..

As to why I am just now responding, well I started a new job this week and our/my dog had a big surgery yesterday. My BS was so kind to pick her up today and watch her while I had to be at work today and will also be there for her tomorrow.
While all of that was happening, I just could not face this site for a few days. I want to be able to take all comments, harsh and not harsh and think about them and review and revise my views/ opinions/ thoughts accordingly. To grow. And in the last days I wouldn't have been able to do that.

So all that being said, I again thank all of you for responding. I am determined to continue this process and will do all I can to become better.
Every day could be our last and I am trying to live in a way were that is my thought. Tomorrow is not promised so we must use today.

HellFire posted 8/27/2020 08:17 AM

Did your friends at your previous job personally know your boyfriend?

Rose2206 posted 8/28/2020 07:23 AM

Some had met him yes. But knowing him good as a person, no. How they formed their opinion was based on their own lives. I know that now.
I stayed at this work place for a long time due to my own insecurities due to my own past. It's a small town community and neither my BS or my own mindset ever fit in with that. So every time they would ask me about things about our relationship, I'd answer them (instead of keeping it to myself). These people really had no business of ever getting any info. But I gave them the information they asked for. I do not have the intention to blame them or deflect from my own decisions. Honestly it just shows me even more things I did so wrong.
Looking back I just hate it all. I am determined to not disclose any of my personal life at my work place ever again like I have there. I learned the hard lesson that there is a big difference between good advice and cheap advice. That I must look critically even when people mean well and determine what is right and wrong. To take advise apart that is given nicely as much as harshly in order to learn and grow from it.

DIFM posted 8/28/2020 11:10 AM

How they formed their opinion was based on their own lives. I know that now.

Know that almost everyone you tell, even us, will react based on their own experiences and fears and pain. If you tell a cheater, they will likely minimize what you did, as your step father did, if you tell a BS, they will either deflect your pain or magnify it, based on how they themselves dealt with their pain. While I agree that cheating should be exposed, it is not because there is some great advice you will get from those it was exposed to. It needs to be exposed to limit the cheaters ability to deflect or to further lie and betray.

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