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Ascott58 posted 7/8/2020 21:14 PM

I'm 7 weeks out from Dday. My husband was the WS. We both are in counseling together and separate. Just taking it one day at a time. WS had a 5 month A last year. He is extremely remorseful. We have had alot of talks and just wonder if we are good for each other anymore.
We are 33. Been together since we was 16. Married 10 years.
Im looking for advice from people without kids. We don't have children and don't want them (he had a vasectomy). So I feel like I should leave because we don't have kids. Im still young, no kids, so why stay? I love him so much and it's heartbreaking what we are going through but I just can't help but think why stay. Anyone stay that dont have kids or leave because of no kids. Thank you guys!

Tormented posted 7/8/2020 21:29 PM

I don't know your whole story but if you have no children, I would Run and never look back.

My WS has done everything he needs to do to R since 2007, but I still get triggered and will never feel special like when we first got married. I stayed but I had kids.

EllieKMAS posted 7/8/2020 21:32 PM

I don't have kids. IMHO, move on. Recovering is possible but it is really really difficult.

The1stWife posted 7/8/2020 22:09 PM

Are you asking for permission to leave him?

You can leave him for any reason at any time. Just be honest and an adult about it.

Sometimes it’s nit the affair that kills a marriage or relationship it’s the behavior after the fact. Like no remorse or continuing to lie and cheat. Not willing to make amends or put effort into healing the marriage or trauma (the cheater created).

You will see your spouse and life in a whole new light. The rose colored glasses are off!

Ascott58 posted 7/8/2020 23:14 PM

No i don't think im asking for permission. I guess i want hope that we could make it. But then again why should I stay if we have no ties? I love him, which bothers me. How could I love someone who would do that?

standinghere posted 7/9/2020 02:56 AM

Normally, I would say "no kids, then run", but in this case you don't want kids, which changes it somewhat, and you have been together a long time. You don't have to make any decisions right now, you can sit on this.

OTOH, I think I would run.

I had 4 kids and the aftermath of the betrayal was awful and is still triggery many years out despite reconciliation and a truly remorseful FWS.

But, as another poster reports, I don't think I will ever feel that "special" in my marriage again since the affair, although I do feel loved, I recognize that the damage can never be fully undone, and the terrible things that were done to me in the betrayal and afterward leave one with nagging uncertainties.

Another thing I learned, which is simply not a good thing to learn, is that my FWS and I have this hierarchy of importance in the immediate marriage. Oversimplified below, but take it for what it is worth, listed in order of importance.

Her: Children, herself, me, pets, property.
Me: Her, children, myself, pets, property.

The affair was 19 years ago. If you had asked me 20 years ago, 10 years ago, perhaps even 5 years ago after 4 years of MC, I would have thought her ranking me was the same as my ranking her. There was a grim recognition around 4-5 years ago that I was never #1, not at any time, and never will be.

All the MC in the world doesn't change that, didn't change that. All our children are now grown, that didn't change it either. She is wired that way. I am wired the way I am wired.

MC did change the destructive behaviors and approaches to the marriage, but it didn't change my position. I never made any decisions without considering impact to her and the children first and foremost, but she did make many decisions without considering the impacts on me.

Consider your place in his life, your real place, where he places you, not where you place him.

Dismayed2012 posted 7/9/2020 09:19 AM

He's shown you who he is. Believe him. No kids, no ties, and still young. That's the perfect formula for getting yourself free. He made his choices. Now it's your turn. Choose what's best for you and your future. Any pain that you have now, while immense, is temporary. Look at your life five years from now. What do you want it to look like? Is your WH and his actions going to help you or hinder you getting there? Nothing he did has anything to do with you. You're worth having a happy life. I wish the best for you.

Bigger posted 7/9/2020 11:45 AM

Remaining solely for the kids is never a good idea.
I think I therefore have to say that leaving solely because you don’t have kids is a bad idea.

Having kids makes leaving more complicated. It also more-or-less forces some contact at least until the kids grow older. No kids = a clean separation and within a year you no longer send each other Christmas cards.
It’s that level of complexity that might tip the scales for reconciling rather than divorcing. But even then reconciling is not the same as being together. If the kids is the main reason you stay you also need to envision true reconciliation. True R is hard work where you both actively works towards creating the best marriage possible. It’s not done for the kids, despite maybe the kids being what tipped you towards R rather than D.

You can reconcile with him if you want to. If this affair is totally out of character and things have been good to-date AND if he’s willing to do the work then R is certainly a possibility.
But you can equally correctly decide to divorce.
It’s your call.

Fantayworld posted 7/9/2020 11:47 AM

You can leave someone you love. Love is not everything. It takes more for a healthy relationship. People can change with a lot of effort but I wouldn't wait around to see if he can.

tushnurse posted 7/9/2020 11:50 AM

Hey there.... I am over 11 years out from this mess. I also have successfully R'd.
My H was my one and only. We fell in love young, and married straight out of college.

We have had a good life. For the most part it's been great, but top 2 reasons for giving R a try was Kids, and finances.

There is not a single day that goes by that I do not think about what he did. How much it hurt me, and my family. He pulled his head out of his ass, owned his choices, and did the hard work to fix his issues, and rebuild our M. But- There is NOT a single day that goes by that I don't think about it in some way or another. It's part of who I am and who we are.

I am happy and fulfilled, and live a very nice life, but this scar is visible.....

My recommendation to you is to run. Rebuild your own life. You are still very young. You can heal, and you can find a better person to share your life with than one that treated you like an option and has very little motivation to change.

The one and only reason I did not throw my H out on Dday was he was unemployed and I would have had to pay him SS and CS. That was not going to happen. I had always been the one to make just a tiny bit less than him, but because he lost his job at the beginning of the recession, I was going to have to pay him ? Nope. Was NOT going to do that. I did not do that. I also was pretty firm in my expectations of him too. I did not tolerate anything less than what I wanted out of R.

Joanna1013 posted 7/9/2020 12:00 PM

Sorry you're here. It really and truly sucks.

My husband is also the WS in our story, and we are also childless by choice (he had a vasectomy as well). Coincidentally, we're also both 33.

I'm staying for what it's worth, but we all have to make our own choices.

I'm staying (at least for the moment) because I love him, I love our life together, and I love our history together. For the record, I also hate that I love him, but I genuinely enjoy being around him, and I think that counts for a lot.

I have no doubt that this shitty situation will forever scar us, but I have faith that we can build something good again together. It won't be the same, but I think it can still be good.

But that's me.

You have to figure out what you want, regardless of whether or not you have kids. It's early, and you'll probably change your mind a million times about what you want to do. Just know that that's OK, and you don't have to make a firm decision either way right now or any time soon.

[This message edited by Joanna1013 at 12:03 PM, July 9th (Thursday)]

nekonamida posted 7/9/2020 12:30 PM

I have a different perspective. It's completely different if you never want kids than if you do want kids but don't have them yet. If you never plan on having kids, you should treat your situation like anyone who wants to R and has that opportunity. If you want kids and don't have them yet, it's much better to leave and find a good partner to have kids with because not only does healing from the A take a few years that you may or may not have, kids put a huge amount of stress on even the best of marriages and it's stress that a WS typically cannot handle without reverting back to unhealthy coping mechanisms.

More importantly - what is your WS doing for R? Does he agree with your post last week that you are to blame for the A? Does he still place blame on the state of the marriage for his A? That's just another roundabout way of blaming you if he does since you both seem to think you're at fault for the state of the marriage.

Get a copy of "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald and read it together. YOU are not to blame for the A. You may have responsibility for the state of the marriage but many people in imperfect, even bad marriages, manage to stay faithful. You were in the same marriage and you didn't cheat. The cheating is 100% all on him and it's not fair for him to threaten you with D or a failed R after betraying you like this over an issue he failed to give you the chance to fix. He is also NOT remorseful if he isn't taking full responsibility for the A and is holding this over your head. There are tons of threads called "Regret vs Remorse" that you can look into or articles explaining the difference if you Google them. Unfortunately if he doesn't take full responsibility and starts figuring out why and how he did this, R isn't possible. Only rugsweeping which almost guarantees another DDay.

Westway posted 7/9/2020 12:48 PM

How could I love someone who would do that?

No. The question is "How could someone who loved me do that?" Does he have an answer for that question?

Newlifeisgreat posted 7/9/2020 12:48 PM

Ok, you love him. But I think the question you need to ask yourself is how could he love you and have an affair that went on for so long?????

I have said this before, a marriage is like a stool in that it is based on three legs. In marriage, those legs are
LOVE
RESPECT
TRUST

Love:
How could someone claim to love their spouse yet repeatedly give themselves to another person? Simple, they can’t!

How could someone claim to love their spouse yet still cause them all of the pain that comes with their betrayal??? Again, they can’t!!!!

Respect
Does a spouse that cheats respect their spouse??? Of course not!!! It is the ultimate in DISrespect! They only way it could be worse is if they had sex on your bed, or he got her pregnant!!

Trust
You will NEVER fully trust him again. It is just that simple. Every time he is 5-10 minutes late, you are going to be wondering who he is in bed with, or in the back seat of a car with. Every time you see him talking to a woman, you are going to wonder if he has asked for her number yet.

Now you may still be able to stay married to him, but why would you want to??? He is a proven liar and cheater, who
Neither loves nor respects you the way you should be. Is that really the life you want?

My advice is go out and find someone worthy of your love, respect, and trust

Stay strong and good luck

Brew3x posted 7/9/2020 13:00 PM

Hey,

My WW and I couldn’t have kids but this was never a deciding factor for me to R or D . I actually hate this debate, when I first came to this site people told me “no kids run” and I completely reject this idea as complete horse shit. You should focus on healing and decided If you can R can and be happy or D and be happy. Either way if you never wanted kids why would it be part of the equation. I guess I’m a little confused why something you didn’t want would be a reason to D.

I agree with Bigger if kids aren’t a good reason to stay why would no kids be a reason to leave.

I will admit that I think kids are like glue and hold the M together a little. Sometimes my M feels a little casual without that glue, if that makes sense.

Idk I’m 9 months from DDay and things are starting to improve between me and my W. I stay because with the exception of the A my W and I have a good relationship and our ideas and life goals are similar and we still can make each other happy.
I’m just starting down the R journey so who knows I could still end up D but the lack kids won’t be a factor.

SilverStar posted 7/9/2020 13:43 PM

If we didn't have kids, I wouldn't be here at this point to even post these words to you, because I would have split after the first EA 20 years ago and be living another life.

Here are the words:

Your WH is not husband material. Run.

Soho posted 7/10/2020 19:25 PM

I have to respectful disagree with the “no kids - run” comments. You can get over this and be happy. Is he your supporter and champion? Im two years out. No children. Affair at 11 years of marriage. This year we renewed our vows in Mexico and the marriage is more satisfying than it was before. You have to choose eachother all over again. I wish it never happened. He is not the perfect person i married but once again my best friend. Its not the same - its different, you see each others vulnerability more and it helps you grow as a couple. And i have had family and friends say “wow, i told you that you should leave... but you made the right choice to stay”. Its satisfying.

redwing6 posted 7/10/2020 20:41 PM

Sorry you're here. THere is a deep wellspring of wisdom here. We've ALL been through what you're going through. It sucks beyond belief.

This bit by Standinghere is one of the wisest things I've read on this forum:

Consider your place in his life, your real place, where he places you, not where you place him.

If you're not his #1...then you might seriously consider walking away.

[This message edited by redwing6 at 8:42 PM, July 10th (Friday)]

The1stWife posted 7/11/2020 06:38 AM

You won’t know if you can live with this trauma until you do.

You won’t know if your feelings will chance about him until they do.

You won’t know if you can forgive him and reconcile until you do.

In the early stages many betrayed want to reconcile. However it doesn’t always work out for so many reasons. Sometimes it’s a year or two down the road that the betrayed decides to leave the marriage for so many reasons.

Rideitout posted 7/11/2020 06:55 AM

My WW and I couldn’t have kids but this was never a deciding factor for me to R or D . I actually hate this debate, when I first came to this site people told me “no kids run” and I completely reject this idea as complete horse shit. You should focus on healing and decided If you can R can and be happy or D and be happy. Either way if you never wanted kids why would it be part of the equation. I guess I’m a little confused why something you didn’t want would be a reason to D.

Exactly, and same situation here, no kids, been about 5 years since the W's A. Honestly, the whole "stay for the kids" thing, while I agree, is practical and probably best for them, just makes me so sad for people, they are trapped in an M they do not want for a very long time, most of their lives in fact; it sounds like a prison sentence to me.

I stayed with my wife because I love her and I wanted to try to fix our M and make something better. It's a long, hard road, I will tell you that, and my particular situation had a lot of pretty awful stuff in it (but, really, they all do, it's just a measure of "how awful").

If you love this person, they want to R, and you want to R, well.. I really don't see how the lack of children figures into it. Might it be easier to just walk away and find someone new? Sure, absolutely. Might that person cheat on you? Yup. Might that person not be "as good" for you as the WS. Yup. And they might be faithful and better for you. Simply put, you just don't know. You have to decide "is my WS worth going through this for" and "do I have what it takes to do this" and "do they".

It's really a decision only you can make, but, the lack of children, if anything, makes R easier (but the decision to R much more difficult because walking away is much easier).