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is this real?

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subverted posted 7/2/2020 06:46 AM

Last night was another wierd night. She asked before i went to bed last night (she was crying) (nice to see her show some emotions) what i was doing tomorrow. I told her, well im working, coming home doing our counselling, heading to the gym and then going to hang out with a friend of mine. (Not once in our 12 years of marriage have i gone to a gym or hung out with my friends. Ive never really taken me time) she got upset and said "am i just supposed to sit here all day with the kids while you go out and do whatever you want?" I laughed inside. This was her last week. Thursday, i paid for her manny/pedy and her gyno appointment. Friday she went to the beach with her friend. Saturday she went to the grocery store for 4 hours, sunday we chilled out in our pool. Wednesday i paid for her eyebrow microblading (5 hours) the procedure takes 1 hour plus 30 mins of driving. The nerve she has to say this. Its pmdd week for us so shes been extra wierd. The 180 spun her out. She sends me some texts and writes some notes about how much she loves me and how much i give her but also includes how im throwing our family away because i wont forget her actions. And hiw i choose to behave depressed. And she made a mistake and just wants to move on with the husband she loves and makes her laugh. Says she feels like digging her own grave and falling in. And thinks about it sometimes she would if she didnt have kids. Says im acting in such a way that she cant het along with me. Says its my ego that i cant seem to get over. Says all of the mean things she said were "passing comments" and i am overthinking. Says i am nuts.....i sent her a nice letter letting her know in bullet points all of the things she has done and she gets mad and shuts off. Ofcourse she comes to bed that night and im sure you can all guess what happned... have counselling today and i wrote her a nice note i will be reading. We will see how things go....

knowingmystance posted 7/2/2020 07:24 AM

I do truly think that she has cut him off. She knows hes garbage but that's not really the point, its hard for me to believe anything she says.

My XW had a LTA with a sex offender (I posted my story a week ago, https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=647176). By the way, that guy also has a history of hooking up with women with children or access to children.

My XW deleted him from social media, didn't call him from her phone and still managed to meet him almost every day during R. During her double life she always talked shit about him. After D-Day when I tried to R, she said under tears that he is a disgusting perv who took advantage of her and she swore she would hit him if she would see him again. She even asked me to find a psychiatrist to deal with her trauma

Tigersrule77 posted 7/2/2020 07:34 AM

Part of the 180 is NOT having sexual contact with your WS. For the 180 to work (it is for YOU, not to punish WS or manipulate them), you need to disengage, to allow yourself to make decisions without being manipulated by feelings/emotions. If you are still being intimate with your WS, that will not be able to happen.

ShutterHappy posted 7/2/2020 08:10 AM

she got upset and said "am i just supposed to sit here all day with the kids while you go out and do whatever you want?"

I donít want to be a mother of my children, I want to be free and do stuff for ME

She sends me some texts and writes some notes about how much she loves me and how much i give her but also includes how im throwing our family away because i wont forget her actions.

I cheat but youíre the one throwing the family away, it canít possibly be MY fault.

And hiw i choose to behave depressed.

Stop choosing to be depressed! I want you to act happy and entertain ME!

And she made a mistake

I sometimes make mistakes like picking the 1% milk instead of 2% milk, or cheat on my husband. Itís all unintentional. I canít possibly be responsible for this.

and just wants to move on with the husband she loves and makes her laugh.

Letís just rug sweep this. Entertain ME instead.

Says she feels like digging her own grave and falling in. And thinks about it sometimes she would if she didnt have kids.

Pity ME! People are mean to me just because I cheated. I will dig my own grave! Oh wait, I just had a manicure... maybe later.

Says im acting in such a way that she cant het along with me.

Itís all your fault. Why wonít you be nice with your cheating wife? I donít get it.

Says its my ego that i cant seem to get over.

Betrayed spouses that donít get over their cheating spouse have too much ego.

Says all of the mean things she said were "passing comments" and i am overthinking.

I cheat on you and say mean things, but itís just temporary. Stop thinking about it.

Says i am nuts.....

I donít take responsibility for any of this; it canít possibly be MY fault. Youíre the one who is crazy. Now if youíll excuse me, I have to go to the beach... err I mean ďgroceryĒ for 4 hours. Hopefully, Iíll pick the milk 2% this time.

DIFM posted 7/2/2020 08:24 AM

Part of the 180 is NOT having sexual contact with your WS. For the 180 to work (it is for YOU, not to punish WS or manipulate them), you need to disengage, to allow yourself to make decisions without being manipulated by feelings/emotions. If you are still being intimate with your WS, that will not be able to happen.

As Tiger noted, there is no 180 where sex is still happening with the cheater.

You have no responsibility or accountability for what she has done, however, you have 100% responsibility for what you do. Your having sex with her feeds her mantra of, just get over it. You do not have control over her, but you do have control over you and whether or not you want to enable her gas-lighting and attempts and continued manipulation.

Keep in mind, you first and foremost have a cheating, lying, broken wife problem. Marriage counseling is useless until she owns her fuckedupedness and takes clear and specific steps to fix the reasons she was eager and willing to cross uncrossable boundaries.

That should be your mantra and her focus. Sex tells her she should stay the exact course she is on with the blameshifting and manipulation and not fixing her shit and wait till the sex fixes the problem.

[This message edited by DIFM at 8:54 AM, July 2nd, 2020 (Thursday)]

KingofNothing posted 7/2/2020 08:28 AM

.

And she made a mistake and just wants to move on with the husband she loves and makes her laugh.

Mistakes generally don't involve a lot of free will. They don't involve a lot of deliberate choices. A mistake is an action taken with unlooked for an undesired results-- as in how Shutterhappy describes it, like forgetting to get 2% milk or spelling SMITH incorrectly. Affairs are NOT mistakes, by most definitions. Your wife exercises her agency and free will by making a series of choices. She chose to look up the sex offender. She chose to contact the guy. She chose to flirt with him online. She chose to accelerate contact. She chose to meet with him. She chose to have sex with him. She chose to hide all this from her husband and lie repeatedly to hide her transgressions and offenses. There's that free will thing in action. She made a conscious decision to cheat. Using the term "Mistake" denies her culpability when, by your own words, she engineered almost all of this affair. She conceived it, she acted on it. At ANY Moment in this long chain of decisions, she had the option to pull back and say.. hold on, what the hell am I doing? I'm married. She never did that.

It wasn't a mistake. She planned all of it, because she wanted to. It's just that simple.

Apropos of nothing, I think you handled last night perfectly well. When she whines and cries about having to, well, be a mother, point out that last week (before discovery of her adultery) she spent hours and hours on various appointments that YOU paid for. Hours she can't be accounted for. You are not an idiot. You know what 4 hour appointments that should be one hour means. You keep doing exactly what your doing, regaining your own agency in this marriage.

Or maybe just shrug and walk off, maintaining that 180. Whatever seems to be working for you.

Freeme posted 7/2/2020 08:58 AM

My concern is that your WW just doesnt' get it and you go back and fourth trying to nice her back and feeling guilty for your part in her affair.

I have three boys all within the same two year age bracket(twins pulse one) and still think getting to be a SAHM was a privilege. Your treating it like it was some horrible thing she had to do and you need to make up for. Manicure, Pedi, eyebrows, trips to the beach... If you both feel this way you should tell her to start looking for a job. We advise people the cheat at the work place to switch jobs I believe SAHP that cheat should get a job. How can you trust her at home.

She really doesn't get the damage she's done which worries me because it can mean she's still in the affair, planning another one or she's done this before.

She's should be promising you the moon and starts to make this right. She should be reading every book she can on helping you heal. She should be looking within herself to see how she let this happen. She should be promising to ditch every friend that played a part in the affair.
She still seems focused on her needs.

I'm not saying this is a lost cause but I want you to be aware that you are not in R right now. She's not R material and if you allow her to rugsweep this it could happen again. Have you given her a list of things you need her to do to feel comfortable moving forward in the marriage?

[This message edited by Freeme at 9:06 AM, July 2nd (Thursday)]

subverted posted 7/2/2020 11:28 AM

Thanks for all the tips guys. I made a list of what i want from her, how i interpret the things she says and how i feel and i am going to present this to her tonight at MC. I think one thing she can do is the MC thinks she does indeed need to be 100% transparent, is use the function of getting back deleted data on her social media sites. I k ow facebook and instagram have this feature. I really dont want to see what they said to each other.....that would just distgust me more and cause more anxiety. But i do want her to show me there was no communication between them for at least 2 weeks like she had claimed. I think that would be a good start for proving her innocence. If she dosnt want to do that, than i will just consider that the afair never ended and move on with my life.

MickeyBill2016 posted 7/2/2020 11:42 AM

Sounds like you are on a good path, I suggest that you do get their messages. It will be hard to read but you will see where her head was during the affair. It may be worse than you think or it may be ridiculously stupid texts between two horny idiots. To forgive you need to know what you are forgiving...

beenthereinco posted 7/2/2020 13:40 PM

Has she admitted to the Affair fully? The last time I saw she had admitted to kissing and "touching" only. This is just not going to be true. There is more and if she has yet to admit that then she is not truly humbled and ready to reconcile with.

Robert22205https posted 7/2/2020 16:54 PM

Insist on a timeline subject to a polygraph.

And letters: why she wants to remain married, why you're a superior life partner to the OM, and a plan to fix herself and guarantee that she will never do this again.

Buffer posted 7/3/2020 01:47 AM

There is more to her story, please talk and listen.
Why is there so much beauty enhancements going on daily, it must be costing $$$$.
I believe they are still in contact.
One day at a time
Buffer

subverted posted 7/3/2020 10:38 AM

No, my intuition tells me she has not admitted the full extent of the affair. Last night we had our marriage counseling which was quite well....nothing. the coulselor obviously is nuetral even as my wife sat there and talked over me and assulted me with how this is my fault. Its my fault for driving her crazy with questions..its my fault i was so distant. Its my fault the way i talk annoys her. Truth is she finallu let me i to her devices and got transparent with her social life. I found that she ordered a burner phone a few days ago.... more loss of trust. She tells me it was because she was mad at me lol! She calls me the crazy one. I get letters from her, 2 ir 3 a day now telling me how i can fix it. How all of this can go away if i just move on and be present. The facts are, i have 0 trust for her...we argue constantly, when i try and leave she gets upset and says im abondoning my kids and family. Says "am i supposed to be treated like this forever?" Claims everything i day and do is right and im on my high horse. And that i never make mistakes. She has deleted all if her messeges and will continue to do so, so there is no way gor me to ever know anyways. Im getting to the point where i just dont care anymore.she claims that every day and night she thinksnof how she can fix this and its killing her.....she knows that im in the divorce train now and says dont choose this! But i mean...i cant trust her. I dream all night of her decieving me. And, on top of that we constantly argue with each other.

The counselor set us time limits each day on when i can ask questuons about her affair. But the truth is, i dint know if i care enough anymore. It hurts and i love her and i dont want my kids to see this.. but it just aint working. And any question i ask is most likely going to be answered with a lie

subverted posted 7/3/2020 10:48 AM

Sorry for all the typos, fingers too big for the buttons on my phone

Buffer posted 7/3/2020 14:00 PM

You are doing well, communicate, ask and tell her what you need.
D will be the action if she doesnít step up and do as you need to make You feel safe again this marriage.
Buffer

beenthereinco posted 7/3/2020 15:44 PM

I found that she ordered a burner phone a few days ago....

She is still having an Affair. This is a flag so red as to be dripping blood. You really have no choice here that I can see except file for divorce. The MC is a waste of time.

Mene posted 7/3/2020 15:59 PM

A burner phone? Dude, sheís not ready for reconciliation. The mere fact she had an affair, let alone with a sex offender whoís history she knew about, then bought a burner phone means she is totally in her own blinded world.

subverted posted 7/7/2020 06:44 AM

Heres the thing...

It was not an actual burner phone. It was a number masking software that was downloaded for a free 1 week trial, which is now up. After snooping, she didnt use it as she said. I know because it would of still showed up on her phone bill that i pay for.

The 4th of july weekend went well for the most part. I did not rly bring up anything the whole time and we even got to enjoy a nice 6 mile ride bike ride together. That is me moving on with my life. I never used to go on bike rides. I told her sunday morning after i got home from work, "hey, im going on a bike ride, be back later" and she said "can i come?" All in all it was nice.

The counselor said to set up talking times. So if i ever want to talk about us or the affair i give my WW a fair warning, and request zome "talk time". This has actually worked.

I told her last night, which we managed to do without arguing, that i feel like i have 2 people pulling me in different directions... 1 person is saying "dude, get out of this... shes lying to you, she cannot be trusted, and she is using you... get out! Dont touch her! Dont be nice!" While my other part is saying " dude! Thats your wife of 12 years (15 at) she loves you, and always will. She is human and she had misguided feeling for a person who would of been in the picture had i not came into the picture back in 07 a week later than i did. This is your wife and shes not as decieving as you think!" She took this ok i think. She cries a lot. Which is good....because she didnt seem to care before.

She tells me that shes being pulled in 2 directions too. She truly feels terrible that she is having feelings for this man. She says she knows deep down what the correct thing to do is. She is sticking with the story that he has cut it off. He basically said if im in the picture, hes not....God... just saying that infuriates me!!!

I told her look, all i can do is try. When i feel a bit angry with you, i can try to calm myself down. I can try to go through the paces. And when you start to have those feelings about leaving, all you can do is try. All these years of marriage and our kids deserve us to at least give it our best shot. So whatever happens at least we can say we tried.

I dont know. I guess thats where i am now. Just faking it. Avoiding her when i get my anxiety brain. Fighting has always been a battle for us. We are 2 very opinionated, hard headed people. I feel like as long as i can manage to talk to her about her affair without criticizing her, we get some ground, and she doesn't flip out.

I just want to say thank you to everyone here for allowibg me to vent on this forum. The only person i really have to talk to is my WW and things can obviously be complicated....thanks again everyone.

[This message edited by subverted at 6:51 AM, July 7th (Tuesday)]

Dismayed2012 posted 7/7/2020 11:26 AM

After re-reading your thread my only advice is to see a divorce lawyer and get the paperwork started as soon as possible. Your WW is still pining for another man. You're trying to convince yourself that it was just a mistake but the truth is that is isn't a mistake at all. Your WW hasn't turned around. She's not remorseful. She's blaming you for her choices. And she's likely still talking to the other man.

You're wasting days and years of your life pursuing reconciliation with a woman that only existed in your mind. Your WW wasn't suddenly a cheater overnight. She's always been a cheater. She's only now decided to act on it. Her attitude and behavior proves that she's not going to stop. Once the dust settles she'll be back at it; if she's stopped at all that is.

Now that you know that she's capable and more than happy to betray you, is this how you want to live? We each only have so many years on this earth. It's important that we spend them happy, healthy, and pursuing a meaningful existence.

You have many years ahead of you. You can choose to live them free from drama and free from betrayers. You're worth the effort it takes to get yourself free and start a better life. Your WW made her choices. It's your turn to make yours. Choose what's best for you, your future, and your success. I wish the best for you.

Robert22205https posted 7/7/2020 12:56 PM

Don't over focus on the OM. The affair is not about 'him'.

If not him, she would have found some other guy.
And if she doesn't fix herself, there will be another guy.

She's broken and her reasons/issues for the affair have nothing to do with you. There's nothing special or difficult about her life other than she chose to cheat. Don't buy into the notion that you contributed to her decision to cheat.

She's high risk and is likely to repeat because she's: crying for herself/shame/loss (not what she did to you); blames you for her bad choices (as if you deserved to be cheated on); and has done nothing to fix herself or make you feel safe.

You can't control her. You can love her and forgive her - but still divorce (you owe it to your kids and yourself to live your best life).

IMO you should be exiting infidelity. Slowly at first and (depending on her actions) escalating the process of D.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 12:58 PM, July 7th (Tuesday)]

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