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Why should anyone stay?

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Stinger posted 6/22/2020 11:22 AM

But, bottom line, the cheater did get away with something. The cheater banked immeasurable pleasure and excitement at a huge expense to the BS and kids. These are experiences that the BS will never get to have and which the BS, unknowingly, subsidized.

Let's face it. If my Xw and I had remained together, at the end of our lives, she would have had many more lovers/orgasms during the marriage than me. And, because I was being fooled, doing extra child care,cooking, cleaning, chauffeuring, etc. during the cheating, she got way more leisure time( which she used to get laid).

It is almost insulting to hear cheaters lament having to pay such a small price relative to what a betrayed does.

Harken back to your frolicking and escapades, done while your spouse was grinding it away at work, then coming home to take over duties that should have been shared evenly, when you feel down. The cheater has banked these memories and can use them to soothe him or herself.

MrsWalloped posted 6/22/2020 11:54 AM

Hi Stinger.

The cheater banked immeasurable pleasure and excitement at a huge expense to the BS and kids. These are experiences that the BS will never get to have and which the BS, unknowingly, subsidized.

Well, itís not immeasurable, but I get what youíre saying. Yes, it was at the expense of our BH and family. But itís that second sentence which I think of differently, as does my BH. Itís not about the inequity of it. Itís about my betrayal, the broken trust, the pain and heartache. Thatís what hurts him. Not that I got something that he didnít get to have. But everyone is different.

It is almost insulting to hear cheaters lament having to pay such a small price relative to what a betrayed does.

I donít know that I saw any lamenting. More like talking about loss. But what is the ďsuch a small priceĒ in your view? Why is it small? And I would never compare my loss to my BHís because his is much much deeper and encompassing and on top of that I am very aware I caused my loss and his too.

The cheater has banked these memories and can use them to soothe him or herself.

I would encourage you to read posts from many WSís who are remorseful, whether they are in R or not. Their feelings and memories of their A are quite the opposite of what you describe. I have never seen a remorseful WS think of their memories of their A in any type of positive terms, let alone use them to soothe themselves.

hikingout posted 6/22/2020 11:56 AM

Well, there are times in life when we must agree to disagree. This is one of those times.

There is nothing about what happened that gives me comfort or that I want to relive in my head. But, I am really not here to convince you of that, nor do I feel I would be successful at it. And, that's okay.

Stinger posted 6/22/2020 12:02 PM

It is okay, indeed. How many cheaters on a site like this would admit they have moments where they have fond memories. Not something one is likely to admit. But, as is often said, cheaters lie( and most do it adroitly, from a lifetime of practice).

Justsomelady posted 6/22/2020 12:20 PM

Itís really interesting - Stinger - that you insist that others who have done something you have never done are feeling or thinking certain things they expressly state they do not feel. Itís almost like youíre disdain runs so deep you cannot believe us. I get you were betrayed, but painting on to people what you wish to be true so you can hate them further doesnít make it so.

MIgander posted 6/22/2020 12:27 PM

Hi Stinger,

Been reading your posts lately and been noticing a lot of pain and anger (I'm good at anger- know it well ).

Anyhow, is this anger best directed towards your xWW? Projecting it on to the other waywards here by making blanket statements like

The cheater has banked these memories and can use them to soothe him or herself.

is inaccurate, unfair and quite frankly untrue.

I definitely don't soothe myself with memories of my affair- I have been dealing with flashbacks lately and am so disgusted with myself and him that my gag reflex is activated. It's either that or hyperventilation from anxiety.

It's really fun having this all in my head- it's definitely NOT soothing and NOT something that I would ever do again to myself.

Let alone want to inflict the fallout and damage onto my husband again.

hikingout posted 6/22/2020 12:33 PM

This response is more for Migander - I find when I have had those intrusive thoughts that I am overwhelmingly humiliated so I understand what you are describing. You learn to turn the channel more as time goes along.

MrsWalloped posted 6/22/2020 13:22 PM

It is okay, indeed. How many cheaters on a site like this would admit they have moments where they have fond memories. Not something one is likely to admit. But, as is often said, cheaters lie( and most do it adroitly, from a lifetime of practice).

It happens all the time. Itís called Limerence and many WS post here who are recently out of their affair and are trying to disengage but still have very strong feelings for the AP.

Of course your comment about WSís having a lifetime of practice lying is just silly. Again, I encourage you to read here. You will learn a lot about Waywards and different thought processes, and maybe some of that will help you with your own situation.

Stinger posted 6/22/2020 13:48 PM

Thanks. My XWW displayed behavior that was intentionally cruel( once waking me from a sound sleep to describe the physical attributes of the younger, pro athlete she had spent the night with, among many other instances of cruelty). So, I am not a big fan of cheating.

I try to imagine how I, as incredibly imperfect as I am, could have pulled off the lack of integrity and empathy needed to cheat, in particular long term. What does one tell oneself? How entitled must one feel? How does one witness the BS twisting in the wind, gaslight, bewildered, questioning his or her grasp on reality?

I have seen similar behavior from my son , a heroin addict, the complete suspension of any type of conscience when in need of a fix. But, there is no chemical equivalent driving the behavior of a cheater(sure, dopamine, but that is small potatoes).

So, I guess this is a Homer Simpson concept for cheaters ( paraphrasing) " I don't mind when Someone confronts me when I am lying. But, it really bothers me when I am accused when I am telling the truth."

I think the behavior that takes place while cheating, is deplorable and especially cruel, and that not many people who are within a few standard deviations of having normal levels of compassion and empathy would be capable of it.

hikingout posted 6/22/2020 14:03 PM

Thanks. My XWW displayed behavior that was intentionally cruel( once waking me from a sound sleep to describe the physical attributes of the younger, pro athlete she had spent the night with, among many other instances of cruelty)

I am sorry to hear that. It sounds like she might have been mentally ill and was probably abusive all along.

Most of us here aren't fans of cheating either. You have to remember, this is a site about getting out of infidelity, a lot of us are here to 1) learn 2) share what we've learned 3)help others to figure out the patterns that assisted with cheating and become safe partners either for their current marriage or for future relationships.

MIgander posted 6/22/2020 14:20 PM

Hi Stinger,

Yeah, I was mentally ill (major depression and anxiety) and chose to medicate it with OM .

As you also know, I had a lot of anger toward my husband for the situations triggering my anxiety and depression.

Either way, it's unfair to say that all WW wanted to be as humiliating and degrading to their H as yours was. Or that,

I think the behavior that takes place while cheating, is deplorable and especially cruel, and that not many people who are within a few standard deviations of having normal levels of compassion and empathy would be capable of it.

I had my A out of despair (was thinking I had to divorce to survive the financial shit storm). Despair of him wanting me or any man wanting me (from his comparisons of me to a good friend), despair of him ever fixing the spending habits and internal drive for external validation in the form of material objects, despair of me ever meaning more to him than a the paycheck I bring home.

I LOST my empathy in my deep rooted panic and depression. I'm working on treating that and getting back my empathy for him, piece by piece.

My BH is a good man, flawed in his own way, but sees the right thing to do (more than I) and always strives to do it. I'm seeing more and more the person and the marriage I am trying to fight for, now the mental illness is subsiding.

Stinger posted 6/22/2020 14:27 PM

Personality disordered, vs mentally I'll, is my take on her, hikingout. And, yes, she was abusive in many ways, not just cheating.

MrsWalloped posted 6/22/2020 14:31 PM

So, I guess this is a Homer Simpson concept for cheaters ( paraphrasing) " I don't mind when Someone confronts me when I am lying. But, it really bothers me when I am accused when I am telling the truth."

I think I was misunderstood. I donít have a problem being called a liar. I mean itís not pleasant, but I get it. I was dishonest and explicitly lied and betrayed my husband before, during, and even a little after the affair. I broke his faith and trust in me and that is something Iíve been working on earning back. I believe you were expressing how cheaters lie and are particularly good at it because we have a ďlifetime of practice.Ē Well, no. We donít. Or at least I donít. Before my A I was a super honest and straightforward person. My having an A was the complete opposite of who I was, or at least the person I thought I was. Anyway, thatís what I was responding to. Of course WSís lied and many continue to lie. No one is shying away from that. But I think it might be more beneficial for you if your pain and anger was more focused toward healing, understanding and resolving whatís troubling you rather than just painting us all with the same very broad brush.

And I am very sorry to hear of what you went through. Truly.

[This message edited by MrsWalloped at 2:31 PM, June 22nd (Monday)]

hikingout posted 6/22/2020 14:35 PM

Before my A I was a super honest and straightforward person.

Same.

I am also that person today. I do not enjoy lying and I am not particularly good at it.

Stinger posted 6/22/2020 14:48 PM

Me, too. Very honest. Good looking, good job, good athlete in college, highly educated. In other words, the opportunities for cheating were there. But, I could not bring myself to do it.

So, what does separate those willing to do it from those unwilling?

Stinger posted 6/22/2020 14:51 PM

If not practiced, how did they get so good at lying? I mean the duration and sheer quantity of lies, done while fully functioning in other areas of life, sleeping well etc- with no practice, how does one get to that level of comfort?

hikingout posted 6/22/2020 15:07 PM

I don't know the answer for everyone as far as what separates the willing from the unwilling.

I can say for me - I never thought it would be something I would ever do. Rather than write it all out, suffice it to say I was in a really bad place. I had been diagnosed with emotional exhaustion, new empty nest, and H had started a new business. I was helping, still working, and trying to take care of our household. 15-18 hour work days 6-7 days a week. When Ap and I started talking it was the first time I had felt good in a long time. I was in denial about it at first, and then needed it like air, the transition was fast. We talked for a month, ended up sleeping together, then talked for a few more weeks and it was over. All of my lies were of ommission.

It doesn't make what I did any better than what anyone else here did. I am horrified at my decisions, and I wish I had managed my life differently, meaning years before. I allowed myself to justify my decisions to go against my own integrity. Whether you want to believe it or not, I have experienced a great deal of pain over it. Still experience a great deal of pain, in fact in some ways it gets worse because you get further and deeper an understanding of how horrific it was.

Over the weekend, I was writing out my husband's father's day card. I wrote "I wouldn't have missed any of it for the world" as part of what I was saying to him. I stopped dead in my tracks and started crying because I knew I couldn't give him the card like that. It just sounded so fucking ingenuine when I was so flippantly ready to trade it all for some high feelings. But, then I realized, I do feel that way - that for those years I would not have wanted to miss any of it.

We hear it in school about tests - cheaters cheat themselves. That's what we do. We cheat ourselves out of a whole helluva lot.

MrsWalloped posted 6/22/2020 15:08 PM

Well, everyone is different and I canít speak for someone else. But in my case the lies were mostly by omission. My husband completely trusted me. My having an affair was the furthest thing from his mind. So it was more of not telling him than overt lies. Like heíd ask how was my day or howíd it go at the charity I volunteered at and Iíd say fine and thatís it. The more explicit lying came after exposure and that was more out of fear and self preservation than anything else. And I donít think I did a particularly good job of lying then anyway. So I didnít come up with anything inventive, convince him of anything or spin whole narratives. As I said, everyone is different.

So, what does separate those willing to do it from those unwilling?

You know how long it took for me to figure that out? To try and understand how I could do it and what inside me allowed me to? How I was able to give myself the permission to? For me at least, without rehashing all of my history and issues, it was selfishness, inability to cope, feelings of shame and worthlessness, and an inherent weakness that allowed me to give in to those feelings to the point where I sought out a quick fix to counteract them and push them down where they wouldnít surface.

MIgander posted 6/22/2020 15:14 PM

The lies in my case started with large things unrelated to the infidelity. It was centered around lying to my in-laws about the state of our finances so we could get larger homes than we could pay for on our own. Then came lying to others in our parish about being good practicing Catholics (when hubby had had a vasectomy after my post-partum depression). Then came lying to people in our prayer group about everything being fine in our marriage. Then lying to everyone in our school (small parish school- sometimes feels like a fishbowl ) about us being just fine w/ our finances and marriage.

After a while, the lies I told just piled up. I was living a fake life to my acquaintances and friends. I told lies to save BH's face, my own face and eventually something snapped and I started lying for myself and my own purposes.

That's how someone who used to be honest and still values honesty becomes a practiced liar.

hikingout posted 6/22/2020 15:18 PM

it was selfishness, inability to cope, feelings of shame and worthlessness, and an inherent weakness that allowed me to give in to those feelings to the point where I sought out a quick fix to counteract them and push them down where they wouldnít surface.

This is a good summary for over here as well.

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