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My story part one

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BraveSirRobin posted 11/18/2019 13:09 PM

Eh, if you both think you've solved everything, who am I to argue with you? SI exists to help people get out of infidelity. Generally, the people who stick around do so because they are struggling, their spouse is struggling, or they've come out the other side with useful advice to help others. You both say that the first two cases don't apply to you anymore, so for parting words, I would like to address Case #3.

If you are correct that a long talk, some sexy new clothes, and a few tattoos and piercings have wrapped up this saga for you, then I'm happy for you both. You've put each other through a lot as it is. But I will caution you that if (IF) this is true, it's a unicorn situation. Many, many people come here believing in the quick fix, and in the overwhelming majority of cases, it not only doesn't work, it backfires spectacularly. You are therefore in a position to do tremendous damage if you set yourself up as a success story to emulate.

We have some extraordinarily traumatized BSes here who are desperate to believe that they can make a WS suddenly wake up with pick-me dance behavior. You have WSes who are unwillingly dragged here, asserting that everything will be fine if their BS just puts it all in the past. There is a loud contingent asserting that revenge sex isn't even cheating, that it's a marital reset button. All of that advice is very, very rarely true, and bad advice can do untold damage.

There are a few exceptions in everyone's story. Just the other day, I saw an experienced poster write in JFO that "I don't know one person -- not one -- who cheated before marriage and didn't cheat afterwards." Well, in fact, they do know one; they know me. But am I going to argue the point? Hell no. The poster's advice has been proven valid over and over, and a new arrival needs to hear that in absolute terms. Just because you win the lottery doesn't make it a good idea to tell people on a fixed income to buy a twice-weekly ticket. If this works out for you, you have won the SI equivalent of sweepstakes odds.

I hope you will consider this as you evaluate what your participation here will be going forward, and I wish you and Julie the best.

hikingout posted 11/18/2019 13:24 PM

In reading this, I keep being struck by the fact that almost every interaction or conversation you describe sounds like teenaged fan fiction.

THIS is why I said "Buzzy, you would make a great fictional writer", it just doesn't ring true with anything I have ever seen someone say in regards to infidelity. Not here, not on other forums, not in real life. The reactions just don't ring feasible to me. But, I think maybe this is why:

I'm finding the lack of introspection, the immaturity, the sudden reversals, the group dynamics that sound like middle school, the emphasis on appearance, etc. staggering. It's like neither of you has learned anything below the surface from any of this.

I had assumed that maybe Buzzy was a person who joined to try and start a raucous about RA's. But, the longer that this has gone on, I am starting to think that it's just the shallow nature of the exploration of the infidelity likely kept shallow by his RA. Buzzy, I really wish both you and Julie would both go to therapy separately, I really fear that neither of you all have the tools to really process this in a way that will make you good long term partners, or safe partners for each other.

I know there are lots of ways to come out of this, but I personally think you all are missing a very deep experience and personal growth by handling it by yourselves. Even with the help of this forum there is not enough resources really here to be able to dissect what really needs to happen with the two of you. It seems like you are more than happy with her wooing you with sex and piercings, but these are just band-aids. It sounds more like you have given her room to act out the issues she hasn't healed. This is Julie going from bored housewife not knowing what she can contribute, to distracting herself with an affair, to playing a different role of trying to "take back her identity" with the piercings and tats. Likely this is just a misguided effort for her to find herself, and just another role she is playing inauthentically. She needs to go to therapy. I think you can benefit from it as well.

MrCleanSlate posted 11/18/2019 13:34 PM


14 whole pages of this from Buzzy and the gallery of WS's. It was tiring. So many tried to beat some sense into him. I think some maybe, perhaps, almost, made it through.

Wish him well. I think BSR captured it best.

Until next we meet Buzzy.

Buzzy posted 11/18/2019 14:36 PM

Wow.where to start.

The pick me dance, there isnt one, to be one i would have to be choosing between two people, there is not a second person, i have not apart fom a hello with Claire in months.

Long talks, the advice on here as part of R is to communicate well we are communicating that is what the talks are all about. We discussed how this shit started, her part in it, my part in it, how we move forward.

Subjects such as how we stopped being lovers, how we did things apart, my running, her yoga, pilates etc.

We discussed (not at length i admit) her new appearance, did she only do it just to please me, the answer, no it was to please me as she knew it would but because she wanted to do it for herself as well.

Appearance and its importance was mentioned as though it dosent matter, well to us it does, it may be shallow then again i have seen the "my spouse has gained 40 pounds and i am no longer attracted" threads, are they shallow?

Do we need outside help, well i know my "whys" it was for revenge pure and simple. Julie has explained her whys and i will take them at face value, i owe her that after the way i treated her on my return from Seville. If i am wrong so be it but she has done everything to be a great partner.

Buzzy posted 11/18/2019 14:39 PM

Ps, no snark intended in my previous post and i accept you guys are far more informed on the subject of infidelity and all the things that spring from it.

MrsWalloped posted 11/18/2019 14:49 PM

I think my journey on here is mostly done and again I thank you all from the bottom of my heart, so much has changed in just 14 days

Wow. That was fast.

DDay was 4 years ago for us and I know we still have a lot of work and building to do. 14 days?! Whats your secret? Piercings and a tattoo? Heck, if I thought that was the answer Id pierce anything. Wait. I take that back. Not anything. I have a hard enough time with waxing certain sensitive areas. Okay. TMI. Now, where were we? 14 days?! Wow. Whats your secret? Inquiring WSs want to know.

Buzzy posted 11/18/2019 14:49 PM

Pps, BSR no i wont be recommending my methods to anyone as a solution to their problems.

Buzzy posted 11/18/2019 14:59 PM

MrsW. 14 days, not quite, our crap started over a years ago, my RA was approx 5 weeks later (i didnt keep any dates). For months after my RA i treated my wife like shit (how i now regret that).

My wife always wanted to R and so did i but could not seem to let go of my spite, the thaw started when we on holiday in Tenerife, i was watching my wife by the pool with the kids and was smiling, she saw me and smiled back, later we were walking and she held my hand and for once i did not reject her. After we returned from holiday i started looking at marriage sites and found you guys.

After lurking for a while i made my first post.

KingRat posted 11/18/2019 15:00 PM

I'm not suggesting you are doing the pick me dance, but she may be. Just because either of you has not communicate with your APs doesn't mean they are still potentially a threat. Again, these acts are not done with deliberation. They are subconscious responses to a perceived threat.

As for the "why's," dig deeper. Why did you feel the need to exact revenge in that manner? Here's the thing, you can never have too much self-awareness. We can take each opportunity to learn more and become better people for ourselves and those we love.

It just sounds like: she had an affair, I found out and gave her a taste of her own medicine, she lost, I won, we called a truce, she knows she needs to step up her game, we've had a few hot dates to prove it is all behind us now, all's well that ends well.

I'm not wishing you ill or anything, but I'd advise to be careful in this critical time and to explore yourselves so this massive hole in your relationship is properly mended. It seems like there's a nice, new rug simply placed on top of it. Sooner or later, when your guard is down, there is a real danger of either one of you forgetting and falling through.

hikingout posted 11/18/2019 15:06 PM


Her whys were feasible, and even understandable, but what is she going to do moving forward in order not to find herself the non-contributing bored housewife? And, how will she fix the things about herself she doesn't value? How does she fix the coping mechanism that enabled her to break what she knew to be morally wrong in order to prop herself. And, really these same questions apply to you as well.

The reason I ask, and I am really trying to help here...is because I am 2.5 years out from the end of my affair. I had my main whys by about 6 months out, and even those have evolved to be a bigger picture. I am still trying to change some of the character flaws that I have that contributed to me cheating.

I am not whiteknuckling - it's not hard to not cheat, but the inauthentic behaviors that I had and some of the pitfalls led to a tremendous amount of unhappiness. I have learned to be responsible for my own happiness now, but there are still issues that I work on and analyze that were ways I was my own worst enemy.

What I am trying to say is, it takes more as someone who cheated to say - here is why I did it, I am sorry, and to just move on. There are all sorts of things that contribute to who we are, behaviors that we justify and accept. This is far more complicated, especially on your wife's end that she went and had an affair.

And, beyond that I now have accountability over the things that were an issue between us before the A. There is a tremendous amount of work that has been done to make myself a woman who is worthy of a man like my husband.

Buzzy posted 11/18/2019 15:13 PM

KR, thank you for your post.

Why did i need to extract revenge in this way? Anger, pride and ego comes to mind.

I no longer have any interest in Claire. In regard to my wives AP he is no longer on the scene, the affair was over before DD, his wife is aware and he has her to thank for me not giving him a good kicking.

If we are both now happy can it really be rugsweeping, are there hidden depths to be explored, search me. All we can do is give it time and see where we go.

Buzzy posted 11/18/2019 15:19 PM

Hiking, she works full time so she does contribute but she undervalued herself and it seemed to her that i undervalued her as well.

No more complacency from either of us, we will keep each other on our toes.

brooke4 posted 11/18/2019 15:37 PM

I think the point people are trying to make isn't your timeline from the discovery of your wife's A to now - it's from six days ago, when you were waxing lyrical about the technicolour bittersweet memories and the realness of the relationship of your RA, to now.

Most of us, who have been through this, know that a few nice evenings and a piercing, this soon after such huge earthquakes in a marriage add up to... well, not much more than a few nice evenings and a piercing. That's not even scratching the surface of the issues.

If your W felt undervalued and unneeded and like she was losing herself, why didn't she say, "hey Buzzy, I feel undervalued and unneeded and like I'm losing myself' instead of sleeping with some other guy? She needs to really get at the underlying shit that led to such poor coping strategies (because I guarantee you there's more), as do you.

And, look, most of us aren't oblivious to appearance, our own or our partner's. Some of us, too, run marathons and do pilates and have facials and put our highlighted hair in ponytails and wear Lycra. The point is that a good portion of your attraction to both women and your disparagement of your wife's AP seems focused on looks rather than much that seems to run deeper. And while physical attraction is important, a lasting relationship needs to be based on that deeper stuff. Even you, Buzzy, are going to age. Runners knees have a notoriously short life span, and I've known an awful lot of them whose inner dadbods have made their way out when injury struck...

Honestly, want to save your marriage? Get yourselves to some therapy.

[This message edited by brooke4 at 3:38 PM, November 18th (Monday)]

Buzzy posted 11/18/2019 15:51 PM

brooke, you are right about my memories but the more we R, the more new memories the more the old ones fade.

I truly believe my W affair was an abberation and she is well aware there will any coming back from another A.

brooke4 posted 11/18/2019 16:47 PM

Right. I get all that. But I think the point people here are trying to get across is that, yes, that's the trajectory of recovering from infidelity. New memories replace the old. But that's a process that takes years, not days. You've only been having actual conversations about things for, like, a week. It's like you're trying to jump on HS2 to reconciliation, and we all know how realistic that timetable was.

Why do you believe your W's affair was an aberration? Not that she's necessarily had, or will have, others, but really, why did she this time? And what has she figured out as coping and communication strategies for the next time something goes wrong? And what about you? Why did you do what you did? And 'because she did it first' is a timetable of events, not an answer--and I say that as someone who well understands the impulse to have an RA.

But you know what? I changed my mind and instead dug really deep and figured out that it was just as screwed up a coping strategy as my husband's affair, and that I needed to understand myself and why I thought I needed that kind of outside validation. Once I did, that desire was gone.

Ok, I'm out now. Good luck to you both.

p.s. there are some very good counsellors in London. I really do suggest you find one

Zugzwang posted 11/19/2019 06:40 AM

Your wife is doing a lot for you. What are you doing for your wife? How are you changing from treating her like a trophy and more like a human being? She is finding herself and going through a mid-life crisis it seems. Shifting from being your kept wife/eye-candy and stepford wife to being on her own. She might be doing a lot to find herself. You seem to be staying the same. Eventually she will get tired of you not being emotionally involved with her and she will miss what the AP gave her that you refuse to look at in yourself. He might have been a fat slob, yet he gave her something that had her overlooking the looks. Something she blamed you and the marriage for.

BraveSirRobin posted 11/19/2019 06:58 AM

He might have been a fat slob, yet he gave her something that had her overlooking the looks. Something she blamed you and the marriage for.
Mmmm, careful, Zug. That could be read as validation of his wife seeking those things outside the M. I know you didn't mean to imply that any BH is at fault when his wife cheats, but I can see how a new reader on the forum might take it that way.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 7:20 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

Buzzy posted 11/19/2019 08:59 AM

Zug, if her AP had provided something she needed then why had she broken off a three week PA some weeks before i found out, why had she told him it was a mistake and not to contact her (i saw his text where he said " i know you told me not to contact you etc"

How am i staying the same? I have given up a club i very much enjoyed and will be joining a new running club with my wife. We are now planning many things together both with our children and just the two of us. If she wants me to join in any of her yoga or pilates classes i will.

Why do you think i am not emotionally involved? I certainly was not from DD until our summer holiday last year but before DD and since that holiday i have been.

Julie was always a "looker" but never arm candy in the sense that it was all i was attracted to about her but i have to say the new repackaged model is something else and fyi she has never been a stepford wife.

LifeDestroyer posted 11/19/2019 09:36 AM

Will you change your physical appearance if she made it known that she likes something different?

Buzzy posted 11/19/2019 09:55 AM

Hi LD In what way, body or clothes. I do have a low body fat percentage but maybe some weight training if that is what she wants. When it comes to clothes then i am already somewhat of a "clothes horse" as i love hopping for clothes.

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