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Wives chosen for reliability = plan B?

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hikingout posted 5/8/2019 12:46 PM

Rideitout- yes I do think it would have happened anyway. I know that isn’t what you want to hear. My affair happened because I wasn’t happy. It wasn’t that I wasn’t happy with him, it wasn’t that I wasn’t happy in the marriage. It was I was working my ass off, had everything I could want...but I wasn’t taking care of myself, of my soul, I was depressed and I was miserable. Much like your wife, I was in the middle of an existential crisis and I didn’t know it, recognize it, try and treat it. I had an affair trying to escape it.

The good news is I now would see it from a mile away. I take care of myself. I recognize that you have to put on the oxygen mask first to be good for my others. The sad truth is you are not in control. Neither is my husband. He would tell you he had to decide he wasn’t going to live in fear. That means letting go of the outcome. It means if she disappoints you again then you divorce. Your wife’s affair is truly squarely on her shoulders. I know why that’s incomfortable. When I say that the affair had nothing to do with you it’s the truth. The marriage does, and certainly restoring the relationship and honest communication and connection can help her in staying vigilant, but relying on you satisfying the majority of her needs is not a solid plan at all.

Loukas posted 5/8/2019 12:51 PM

And I'm pretty sure if I'd put in 100, no way, it wouldn't have happened. I was slacking off, so was she, no doubt, and then total "slack off" during the A, but still, it's hard not to examine my role in it. Also, it's comforting to think "Just work harder, it won't happen again" because I control that. The "you can fix her" stuff makes me feel very hopeless, even if it's true, because it feels like a random walk. Put in 100 or 0, makes no difference, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. I hate that.
And it has finally become clear to me why you are so invested in the ideology you preach.

A lot of books get sold every day with that idea. ‘Affair proof’ your marriage, like somehow we can control another persons actions. It’s great in theory, read and listen to enough actual stories long enough, though, and you’ll see it simply isn’t reality.

To this day I still cringe when folks who have been ‘happily married for 50 years’ tell their tales of how you can achieve it too. As if they had figured out some magical formula that kept them both faithful all that time, when in reality it’s more likely that they both placed tremendous importance on the value of their marriage individually and because of that, achieved their 50 year landmark.

I do know this much, no matter what I tried, watching my ex-wife fall into her unrecognizable behaviours and despair was the most out of control I had ever felt in my life. Despite all my efforts to straighten the the course of our marriage, she had different intentions, and there was simply nothing I could do differently. I see that story far more often than any other.

Rideitout posted 5/8/2019 13:01 PM

A lot of books get sold every day with that idea. ‘Affair proof’ your marriage, like somehow we can control another persons actions. It’s great in theory, read and listen to enough actual stories long enough, though, and you’ll see it simply isn’t reality.

Affair "proof" is too strong a statement. "Affair prevent" or make it much less likely, yes, I think that's possible. Hiking provided a good context, but let me provide the counterpoint.

"You couldn't have stopped it".

Yes, I could have. Let's take one, very simple way. I had access to her phone. The OM was TXTing like a madman. I never looked. All I needed to do was pick up the F**KING PHONE, for God's sake and it never would have been a PA. There's 0 question in my mind if I'd even practiced that simple modicum of "GAF" I wouldn't be here today. I could have insisted on MC, I knew something was wrong and that probably would have stopped it. I could have gotten a VAR/GPS tracker. There are literally almost an endless list of crap that I could have done to stop it. There's no arguing I "could have", at least not in my mind, there's only arguing (rightfully so) "you shouldn't have to do this to prevent an A". I fully agree with that statement. But at the same time, I know, intellectually, if I'd just cared a little more, put forth a tiny bit more effort..

Now, none of this would have fixed the underlying problem. That's entirely true. But the A didn't fix it either, it made it 100X worse. So I'd like to think that I'd be in a much better place and better equipped to deal with the issues if there hadn't been a "Bangbus style" PA to deal with on top of it all.

HoldingTogether posted 5/8/2019 13:03 PM

But where I struggle, I'm convinced, if I'd put in 50, it wouldn't have happened. Or maybe even just 30, who knows. And I'm pretty sure if I'd put in 100, no way, it wouldn't have happened.

I know you weren’t asking me but I’d like to chime in here anyway and say that if you were talking about divorce I’d be 100% in agreement with this assessment. But when it comes it infidelity that’s a tricky road to go down. As had been hammered out on this site ad-nauseam: there is always a choice to deal with marriage problems other than fucking someone else. If you weren’t giving enough to the marriage then she had options to address it or leave the marriage, breaking her marriage vows is not a legitimate solution to the problem.

You might as well say shit like:

If I had been nicer to my business partner he wouldn’t have embezzled all our money.

If I hadn’t said that to my spouse then they wouldn’t have hit me.

If I hadn’t worn such a tight short skirt I wouldn’t have gotten raped.

I guess it would be possible to make the argument for any one of those statements to have a grain of truth to them. But I don’t see how it would be helpful and for fucks sake is that the kind of world we want to live in? Where we have to be perfect all the time or we should just accept that it’s our fault that horrible shit is gonna happen to us? And doesn’t it give a pass, just a bit, to the perpetrators of terrible behavior?

Also as a recovering alcoholic this statement stands out to me like a sore thumb:

Also, it's comforting to think "Just work harder, it won't happen again" because I control that. The "you can fix her" stuff makes me feel very hopeless, even if it's true, because it feels like a random walk. Put in 100 or 0, makes no difference, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. I hate that.

Brother, you don’t have any control over anyone's behavior except your own. That shit fucking suuuuuuucks to come to grips with because what it means is that you are fucking absolutely guaranteed to get fucked over and hurt over and over and over again in life. Accept that that is something you cannot change man.

Accepting that reality is the only really viable option.

Except maybe whiskey ... whiskey was also an excellent option for a long time... right up until it wasn’t.

[This message edited by HoldingTogether at 1:07 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

Loukas posted 5/8/2019 13:08 PM

You aren’t talking about prevention, RIO, simply delaying the inevitable. Sure you could have taken all those steps, policed all your wife’s behaviours, and she still would have tried to circumvent all your efforts because she had a different idea than you. Actually, I’d be willing to bet, if you would have done everything you said, you would have the added bonus of being a “controlling asshole” as she fucked her boyfriend. We see that fairly regularly.

Adaira posted 5/8/2019 13:12 PM

Omg, how many people on this board have picked up their spouse’s phone and still it didn’t stop the affair? Who gave 100% to the marriage and still their husband or wife went and slept around on them? You can’t control other people. Let go of that notion for your own mental health and well-being.

My exWH told me, before the affair started, that he was unhappy with the state of our marriage. I was too! We have young kids, we had been married for over a decade. I listened to his complaints, I shared my heart with him, we had what I thought was a great discussion about what we both wanted our marriage to look like. I started working diligently on the things he needed from me that very day. HE STILL WENT OUT AND CHEATED.

KingRat posted 5/8/2019 13:14 PM

I understand what you’re saying. However, I think 3 months post childbirth is a little unrealistic unless you’re like Gisele Bundchen and have resources to pay for night nannies, chefs, and most importantly, genetic luck.

I work out daily and enjoy it very much. But 3 months after my son was born, my number 1 priority was surviving the day and hoping to get some rest at night. And I wasn’t even the one breastfeeding and having my hormones all over that place. Especially after considering the education you receive at the hospital about the risk of postpartum, I think that statement was inappropriate. Again, time, place, and manner are just as important as the substance of the communication.

hikingout posted 5/8/2019 13:29 PM

Rideitout -

I sometimes think you stay stuck because you can't come at the affair from a different direction. And, please know I say that with concern rather than judgment or disdain.

The fact that you still think this is about words of affirmation concerns me because as one gets further and further out from the affair, I think things break down and then they evolve. If this is still the story that she tells as well, then she hasn't owned her shit. That's where you can guarantee things aren't safe. It means that she is blaming you for her affair, even if it's slightly, that's what it says.

I didn't have an affair because I needed to be told I was pretty. I had an affair because I was in a deserted island of isolation of my own making, and when the AP flirted with me it reminded me I like to have fun. Forget the fact shortly after I started talking to him that I went to the beach with my husband and some of our brood and was unengaged as they come. You know why? Because I blamed my circumstances on being unhappy. So, H was part of "my circumstances".

Happiness comes from within. It doesn't come from other people, it doesn't come from buying things or even *gasp* sex. Yeah, those might give us a temporary boost. Just like having an icecream cone, or being in the sun for a little while. None of that is sustainable and we look for our next "fix" to give us that happy.

I wasn't at peace with the kids leaving, or my work schedule, or not having any outlets or hobbies. Instead of fixing any of those things I grabbed onto the affair like I would have any of the above things I mentioned. Or like some people grab a bottle of alchohol, or others a cigarette. It's all coping.

By the time your wife was texting this dude all the time, she was already gone. The sex might not have been a foregone conclusion, I get why you go there...but if she was already hooked on her next fix, she would have probably just gotten sneakier about it.

I didn't have an affair because no one told me I was pretty, and neither did your wife. And, if she gets in that state again, telling her she is pretty or monitoring her phone is not going to help.

I am telling you this because you need to know that.

emergent8 posted 5/8/2019 13:37 PM


There's likely one major trump card in this equation...
As the gatekeepers of sex, women often hold the ultimate power to determine their place in the pecking order.

Hear ye, hear ye! Females, please gather 'round. I, a man, have the magical silver-bullet answer you all seek. I know it surprises you all, but in fact, YOU have had the power the entire time. You were just too stupid to realize it. I know that you're probably not smart enough to have picked up on the NUMEROUS social and cultural signals you've been sent since you were literally 10 years old, but let me spell it out for you in plain english. Men like sex and value women only for the sex that they provide.

While there are plenty of stupid cake eaters who can't appreciate what they have...

I have chosen to ignore the countless examples of people who have posted here, because it doesn't fit my narrative. I will point out however, that men who are "getting it" at home are STUPID for cheating. See, I'm on your team!

...there are also a mountain of men who were married to women that didn't own their man.

It is your fault your man cheated. Let me be abundantly clear, THIS IS ENTIRELY YOUR FAULT. Let me point out, that these men are not stupid, you are! You had one job!

I don't mean this to be triggering to any BWs...and I'm not justifying cheating...so don't read below it it bugs you.

I know this is a thread aimed at BW and all, and I don't want to be yelled at by a bunch of angry feminist shrews, so if you disagree kindly keep your "gyno-centric" opinions to yourself.

If you want a happy man, keep his balls empty and his stomach full. That's the baseline. If you aren't sure what's wrong with him...do those two things. From there, male contentment is pretty simple...

I'm not sure I made myself clear before, so let me say it a little more crassly.

I know men who are struggling right now to stay married.

I'm not even talking about WHs, but lets be honest, no one would blame these guys for cheating, being faithful is hard.

They, almost universally, share a few things- A wife that dismisses their needs as unimportant. A wife that thinks she has the absolute right to define what sex should be, when it should happen, for how long, and how enthusiastic it should be. "Just be quick" is something they hear in the bedroom. The joke about BJs stopping after she eats wedding cake...aren't jokes.

Sound familiar? I'm guessing if your husband cheated, it's probably because you were one of these women. Also, can you IMAGINE, a woman thinking that she has the absolute right to decide what to do with her own body? Haha.... Let me be clear, I take these men at their word that they are absolute studs and that their wives are 100% of the problem here.

Likewise...same guys have SAHMs who have to hire a maid, get takeout 3+ nights a week, and who can't pick up the kids after school.

I know I said it was all about sex, but I should also add that if you aren't the perfect mother, don't clean, cook, and chauffeur your kids around, you *ALSO* deserve to be cheated on.

Those men are all looking hard at divorce or cheating.

Because... obviously those are the only available options. Why would these men try to work with their partners to try to solve these problems.
Women single those men out and try to get into a relationship with them, as those men look for female energy during the day. I see it over and over. I'm not saying it justifies cheating...but it creates a void that a cheater would want to fill.

In the same way that its the women's fault that these men are unhappy, I also blame the female temptresses for causing them to cheat. These men are blameless. Women are just holes to be filled.

Conversely...I know some men who are uber happy with relatively plain looking women as those women OWN their man's happiness
.

Fear not uggos! I know its difficult to imagine a PLAIN woman being deserving of love, fidelity and happiness, but you can also catch a man!

They put effort into keeping him in tip top shape so he can perform at work and be a great dad. They know that his happiness will directly enable him at work, at home, and in life...so they throw a BJ at him when he looks down and bring their A game at bedtime. His clothes are ready, his house is clean, and his wife greets him with a smile when he gets home. Happy man...who also reciprocates to maker her happy.

Women are responsible for men's happiness, performance at work and parenting abilities. Men cannot be expected to succeed at any of these things if women do not give them on-demand BJs/sex, while also keeping the house clean and doing his laundry. If you do all these things, he'll be happy and therefore you will be too.

So, it's not plan A or B...women have huge mobility in that department. It's truly effort based. For men...effort is only going to get you so far. There is no male equivalent of "give her a BJ"...not really.

See! I solved it for you! PS. It doesn't go both ways. Men can't be expected to put any effort in. It doesn't work that way.

emergent8 posted 5/8/2019 13:58 PM

In case it is not abundantly clear, my above post is a tongue-in-cheek "translation" of Unbroken's post.

[This message edited by emergent8 at 1:59 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

TKOGA posted 5/8/2019 14:01 PM

I think I love you, Emergent8.

cheatstroke posted 5/8/2019 14:02 PM

that he was all of 5’7” and how will working out make him taller? Crickets from him. Yes, he was *average.* He just forgot.
HG65

Well alrighty then, I guess I don't have to feel guilty at all about calling a woman who is carrying extra weight from pregnancy "*average*".

If guys 5'7" or under are always at best "*average.*" (love the asterisks btw. Why didn't you just use "======> AVERAGE <======"?), something they are born with and can do exactly NOTHING about, then it had better be ok to call a woman who is carrying extra weight due to pregnancy, something she can absolutely do something about, "average".

I get it. Women in their 20's aren't attracted to short guys. Many women regularly say "If his height starts with 5, you must deprive".

It's amazing though how, once a woman hits 30, the short guys suddenly don't seem that bad. The biological clock is a friend to the vertically challenged!

coastofsomewhere posted 5/8/2019 14:05 PM

emergent8...

You had me rolling at "Hear ye, hear ye!"...and "Fear not uggos!"

Hilarious! All of it!!

TKOGA posted 5/8/2019 14:11 PM

Jesus, that height comment really set some of these guys off.

coastofsomewhere posted 5/8/2019 14:12 PM

it had better be ok to call a woman who is carrying extra weight due to pregnancy, something she can absolutely do something about,

cheatstroke...you really shouldn't speak of that which you know nothing about. Women's bodies react completely differently to pregnancy. Sure, some can get their body weight back easily or with hard work...but others can do everything possible and never get that pre-pregnancy weight or body back.

DragnHeart posted 5/8/2019 14:16 PM

Mentioning height is alot like dock size apparently...

Geez. Wanna bitch about height, try being UNDER five feet...

And as an example:. Put a tall blonde stuck at the side of the road with the hood to her car up and I guarantee loads of guys would stop to help...

But my 4'9" chubby butt stuck with my hood up and I get passed by...I know this cause I have been in this situation and I have been there when WH insisted on stopping for the blonde who already had three guys there helping...FML!

Edited to ask how many guys does it take to change a tall blondes tire???

[This message edited by DragnHeart at 2:17 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

stolenyears posted 5/8/2019 14:26 PM

"Affair prevent" or make it much less likely, yes, I think that's possible.

The only person you can affair proof is yourself. You have no control over what someone else does or doesn't do. If you had grabbed her phone, then she would have either taken it further underground using another cheating app or found another way to communicate. My wife was the master of hiding. Like Guinness Book of World Records level.

I even wore the assless chaps while I vacuumed, and it still didn't work. And I am 6'1"...

Rideitout posted 5/8/2019 14:42 PM

cheatstroke...you really shouldn't speak of that which you know nothing about. Women's bodies react completely differently to pregnancy. Sure, some can get their body weight back easily or with hard work...but others can do everything possible and never get that pre-pregnancy weight or body back.

<Fart in church coming>

Let me start with the less "farty" stuff. Everyone is different. Some have an easy go of losing weight, others do not. It's a combination of metabolism, intrinsic drive for food, self-control and level of activity. Some of those "low or high" is going to greatly impact the way you gain/lose weight.

But (fart time), unless someone has developed a personal fusion reactor that's powering their bodies.. Losing weight isn't rocket science, but it is very much like a rocket. Fuel in - heat out. You take the fuel away, the rocket keeps burning and eventually, weighs a lot less than it did at liftoff. If your BMR (base metabolic rate) is 1000 kcal a day or 2000 kcal a day makes a difference, but, if you eat 800 kcal (first person) or 1800 kcal (2nd person) guess what? You'll both lose weight at exactly the same speed and have the same exact result from a diet. Fat is simply a mechanism that our body uses to deal with a calorie surplus, remove the surplus, the fat goes away (well, actually not, the cells just shrink to nothing when they aren't holding fat, same net effect though).

As for the other pregnancy changes, I agree, that's unavoidable and anyone shaming someone for that deserves any vitriol you (or I) might hurl their way.

cocoplus5nuts posted 5/8/2019 14:46 PM

Ahh, Coco, you made my point better than I could have.

So, the answer to my question is, "No."

RIO, hindsight is 20/20. Like I said, if I had just moved with my H, uprooting my entire family for just a year, he wouldn't have cheated. But, that's not something I should have had to consider. I was in the same M. I was just as unhappy and alone. I didn't cheat.

The fact is that there are many options available when one is not happy with something. Cheating is not a healthy one. There is something wrong with the person who chooses to cheat.

Hg65 posted 5/8/2019 14:55 PM

RIO, I think his wife is pretty just the way she is. Also exhausted.

She had to listen to her asshat husband passive-aggressively tell her in front of friends that, basically, it’s been 3 months. Time to lose the baby fat. He was not the slightest concerned about himself. He was definitely sending a message. We all got it, including his hurt wife who sat there looking at the floor.

Maybe if you saw the look on her face...crushed. Or his buddies trying to tell him to shut the fuck up, he was way out of line. Oh, and the “whining women” were standing up for her, she sat silent. But he didn’t shut up so I went for the jugular. If I had first hand knowledge that his dick was small, I would’ve said it.

I have no problem calling out bully douchebags. It warms my little heart.

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