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Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts - 19

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Superesse posted 5/15/2019 16:23 PM

ShatteredSorrow, fantastic post! Will you be my counselor? 😁

I am sure this analysis you offered will help many of us, especially those of us who have years and years already sunk into a relationship we had no idea would get so hopeless. I have been trying to figure out the answers to just these questions you posed. Thanks a million!!

ashestophoenix posted 5/15/2019 18:40 PM

Shattered, thank you for your lovely post. The answers to some of your questions are; no, I would not be able to keep the house if I divorced; no, I am not eligible for Medicare/Medicaid until another four years.

ashestophoenix

TripletMom posted 5/16/2019 02:22 AM

Hello All. I am a long time member but itís my first time posting in ICR. I was active on SI 12 years ago when I first discovered my Hís infidelity. 12 years later, I am back because I confronted him this past February with daily texting and calling with an acquaintance and he admitted to an affair.

He quickly agreed to get help for what I suspected was a sex addiction and has been seeing a CSAT for about 2 months and just began weekly group meetings as well. His CSAT confirmed a diagnosis of SA. What I am dealing with is typical SA behaviors (porn, prostitutes, websites) but also a recent affair. Iím having a difficult time thinking of them as one issue. To me, the emotionless infidelity can fall under the SA category but not necessarily the affair. There appeared to be more of an attachment although he claims the physical aspect of the affair only lasted 3 months and ended months prior to me finding out. The texting/calling still appeared on our phone bill until I confronted him and it started as early as late 2017. That is as far back as I can go with phone records so it may have started even earlier.

He is preparing for formal disclosure with his CSAT and I am preparing as well with my IC. When we discuss the upcoming disclosure, H has a difficult time discussing affair questions. I am becoming very frustrated and anxious. There are days the pain is unbearable. I have many, many questions about everything but a lot of those questions are regarding the affair.

He has made it clear he doesnít think he should answer any questions related to ďintricate detailsĒ of the affair but only general, non-specific questions. He feels itís not something I need to know, doesnít understand why I want to know, and even went as far as saying he thinks itís weird that I would want details. He feels it would do more harm to the marriage and set us back even more. I donít think Iíll be satisfied or at peace until I know everything. I want to know when and how it developed and where they met up for sex or anywhere else they may have done. I canít imagine us ever having sex again in the future unless I know what he did with her sexually. I donít need to know positions but I do think I want to know if they had oral. I canít imagine re-establishing a sexual relationship with him without knowing that. Btw we are both being tested for stds before I would even think of having a sexual relationship with him again. Waiting now for those results.

Also I need to know if the AP was in his Jeep and if anything physical happened in the Jeep. That Jeep is supposed to get handed over to our boys in September for their use and I donít want to keep it and have them use it if he had sex in the vehicle with her or even kissing etc.

So, you see, I have more specific questions I need answered. If I donít get the peace of mind I need with answers, I donít know if I can continue with working on reconciliation. I have dealt with so much betrayal and gas lighting over the years that this may be the final blow. This is the first time he has ever admitted to any infidelity and Iím actually surprised at how he is trying to do the hard work to heal himself and us but this may be a deal breaker for me.

So, while he is trying, I still need more answers. I think he will give me what I need to know about the other acting out (prostitutes etc), but this actual affair is where I believe we will come to an impasse. I am afraid he is in some way protecting her by not wanting to answer specifics. I could be wrong and it may be all about protecting himself, but I do have that fear.

My question to any of you who have gone through formal disclosure is do you believe it is helpful to get details? Am I hurting myself and any possibility of a possible successful reconciliation if I push for more info? Iíve read a lot about it and have gotten mixed answers. Some experts believe specific details can do more harm to the BS even if they want the info. Others say the BS should get any answers they believe they need. Is there any experience with this and advice you can offer? Thanks in advance.

I must add that my heart breaks for all of us here and I read your posts with much compassion and empathy. None of us deserve this hell we are living through.

marji posted 5/16/2019 07:46 AM

Triplethere is no right way for everyone. If you want answers then you should have them. It certainly is not for your H to decide. Heís not very good at making good decisions.

The answers can be awful to hear. I asked for details and got nauseous. But I wanted truth after so many years of living a life I knew nothing about. I did not want to be living with ghosts. But again itís all about what you want and need.

Sounds as if you are making R the guideline of your decision
and that is your right too but maybe you might put the priority the other way around. Learn what you want to learn and then decide about R rather than R above all else. If your IC is good and helpful then discussing this dilemma with her should help. But maybe more important is that your H seems overly confident n his ability to do what is good for you. He sounds condescending and like someone who has to work more on humility.

Somber posted 5/16/2019 08:59 AM

Tripletmom,

So sorry you find yourself here and especially on this thread!
What you are going through is severe emotional trauma.
Itís so heartbreaking. First thing is to take care of yourself and it sounds like you are on that path, keep seeing your IC.

As for your WH, he likely is just trying to protect himself by omission of details., I donít think these types of behaviours merit any true emotional connections so this woman you want to know more about is likely no different.

Ask yourself what would change if you knew more details? How would it help you? Could you trust him to know he is telling you the full truth anyhow? You need to focus on you right now so do what is best for you. Everyone is different on what they want or need to know. You have a right to know and make an informed decision about your marriage. As for details, how much you request is personal.

I can share my discovery journey a little...
I wanted to know the truth of what had been going on so I can make an informed decision to stay or go. I became a detective and frequently checked his phone, messaging apps. I even scanned his cell with Dr.Fone and found lots of messages to other women. I did this 3 times. He confessed things recently while drunk and I learned more then too. I do not know everything but I will say that what I know haunts me. I need to keep myself busy and distract myself from the very thoughts of his behaviours. I think I am developing a form of PTSD from it. I now wish perhaps I didnít know so much as it has brought a lot of additional pain! At the same time, I donít think I would have been okay without knowing the extent of his sex addiction behaviours. Specific details I could have done without knowing. But the frequency and multiple women I needed to know. It helped me realize that my instincts were right so to trust them! And it helped me realize that I was not crazy, that he gaslighted me and manipulated me to continue his addictions in peace.
So for me knowing was necessary but the smaller details have created visual demons in my mind. Be prepared with a good IC to process it all if you do obtain all the details you request.
Also for me, even when he was admitting things I learned later that he still omitted a lot. He felt ashamed and embarrassed and had difficulties admitting he had a problem. This took years to come to this conclusion and it took me to finally enforce boundaries and when that didnít work I asked for a separation. Now he is in therapy...itís a long journey.

LaniKai posted 5/16/2019 09:32 AM

Tripletmom,

I have been going through this horrible trip since my first discovery of SAWH secret life in 2012. The last straw was July 2018 with the discovery he was still in contact with the AP after he kept telling me and our MC there was no contact. I kicked him out of the house and tried to figure out was to do. We had one last MC appointment and it was there I heard the words sex addict. Our MC refused to see him anymore and recommended him to another therapist. Still loving him I decide to see if anything could be done. He started Immediately the 12 step meeting but I still was suffering. I decide I needed to know the whole story to help heal. I had talked to my IC/MC about discovery but I didn't understand how it could work with his IC not knowing me and after it was over who picks up the pieces of my life? I found out about Dr. Milton Magness by reading several of his books about hope and freedom with an SA.

Long story short we did the disclosure with him. It was 3 days and intensive. I wanted to know every detail and boy did I get it. So many things were revealed not only to me but my SAWH got the freedom he needed to hopefully recovery.It had to come out that he was sexually abused by his own mother. He had never told a sole.

As for me, I needed the truth because I'm a digger and I would just keep digging. His disclosure went back to his childhood. I felt as good to know I wasn't crazy when his was gaslighting me. There was one thing the most resent that I am having a difficult time with but I know I needed it details. He now will answer any questions I have. Doing the disclose with Dr. Magness was good because he was there to pick me up off the floor. He was also tough on my husband. He failed the polygraph the first time. He passed the second.

I have been struggling with the last acting out but something I read on this thread has really helped put my thoughts in perspective. I don't remember who posted this but it was a quote from the actress who's husband had been arrested for child porn. "I'm giving a sick person a change to get well"

ShatteredSorrow posted 5/16/2019 09:50 AM

Superesse, I'm glad it was helpful. I am actually a life coach (for over 10 years now) so I firmly believe that the future is unwritten and we get to decide what it looks like. It isn't helpful to imagine your future based on what has occurred thus far in life, I think especially with trauma as it is very fear based, but it is very empowering to recognize that you can still design your future to be one you WANT. I think there needs to be some level of healing from the trauma before you can access that though. But I think if someone has had a decent amount of effective therapy to deal with the trauma and betrayal first, or years to process, then it is a good time to start looking towards what you want, and how to create that, instead of feeling stuck in the situation you have currently.

I am currently looking to move into the corporate world as I need a stable income with 2 small kids to support, but I will likely coach on the side and have been considering focusing my practice on women who are separating or divorcing and looking to rebuild their lives. There's the possibility of working with women who have been forced to pick up their lives after betrayal/infidelity as well.

I feel like something good needs to come out of all of the immense trauma I've endured; and helping women to find joy, strength and peace in their lives again seems like it could fill that purpose and be healing for myself and them. <3

Superesse posted 5/16/2019 10:26 AM

ShatteredSorrow, from your bio, you are wise beyond your years, I must say! I paid a counselor $90 a session for almost a year, yet didn't get such helpful advice as you gave. And my counselor was an ACA certified, licensed MHC career coaching specialist. We focused on skills and preferred work environments. While I appreciated the needed encouragement she gave to me, I wasn't comfortable "envisioning" next steps, for whatever reason. (Maybe it was still too soon after my D-Day 2? You made a good point about trauma healing taking some time.)

And then, some of us are already in the Social Security set, so this makes it more of a challenge to talk cheerfully about starting a new career. Not impossible, I know. Just a bit overwhelming to consider a complete reboot in one's 60's and beyond!

I really applaud you for wanting to serve women like ourselves. Thanks again!

ShatteredSorrow posted 5/16/2019 11:58 AM

Superesse, thank you for the acknowledgement, I really appreciate that. I've worked with plenty of clients in their 60s so I know there is often the feeling of being past the chance to recreate your life, but it's simply not the case. You have lived more years, you are not dead. <3

I don't know the details of your coaching relationship but did it only focus on career? I imagine the infidelity trauma and relationship worries wouldn't have been addressed in that scenario. It would be difficult to just focus on empowering your career if your whole being is consumed by grief, pain and confusion and that is being skirted around (or you weren't working through that separately with another counselor)

Just something to consider as an example, A. a life working as a cashier at Walmart, living in a modest apartment, paying your bills, spending time with friends or even alone doing things you enjoy, maybe dating. B. Staying with your H, in your current home, with more finances and good health insurance, he is the same person, perhaps you are relating to him differently - as a friend? As a roommate? As a lover and you don't care what he does SA_wise anymore? What feelings can you access with each life?. Which makes you feel more possibility or chance for peace, contentment and joy? What for you feels like an expression of love and trust, most of all in yourself?

veryhurt2018 posted 5/16/2019 12:04 PM

TripletMom I'm so sorry you're going through this. Here are some things that I have learned from my IC over time. Don't know if they will apply to your situation or not but I thought I would share. My SAWH had an affair also and it lasted on and off for 8 years. What I didn't understand is that it was just sex and nothing else. Like you, I really struggled with the affair as I felt like it was very hard to get over. I think SAWH knew that would be the most painful, so he didnít share it until I found a deleted e-mail that was from her.

My SAWH didn't want to share all the details but later he finally agreed to it, thanks to our IC's letting him know that he really must, if he and I wants me to heal. I'm someone that absolutely must know everything, although very painful. Now that everything is out, I have to say that I struggle with a lot of images about what he did, especially how he GAVE oral sex to prostitutes. That is really hard for me.

LaniKai I literally could have written your post as my story too, almost every word. I would love to hear about Milton Magness. I just discovered his website, and I feel like it has given me hope for the future. I talked to WH about possibly going there for a 3-day retreat. The problem that we still have 2 boys that canít really be left for that long. Trying to work that out.

[This message edited by veryhurt2018 at 12:12 PM, May 16th (Thursday)]

LaniKai posted 5/16/2019 13:33 PM

Veryhurt2018

The 3 day intensive was the best for us if there was/is any hope to stay in this marriage. Dr. Magness works with both of you together and separately. What I needed was a therapist to be there after disclosure.To make sure the disclosure is complete. He worked with my SAWH to make sure. To help with where do I go from here? My SAWH is a very distrusting person so he was very anxious about this process, the polygraph and Dr. Magness himself. He wasn't sure this would work but he did it because I insisted otherwise the marriage was over. In the end he respects him so much. He was very though on him. The intensive was exactly what I needed to get to the truth and believe what I was being told. So much gaslighting in the past.We were given tools to continue on the road to recovery. Now it's up to my SAWH to do the work and stay in recovery. I still struggle with the why but I know I will never have that answer! I have huge trust issues not sure they will ever go away. I hope this helps.

veryhurt2018 posted 5/16/2019 14:43 PM

LaniKai That sounds amazing. Not sure if I really need it anymore as we are both in therapy and 12-Step but I feel like I still don't know the truth and that's what a struggle with most. Thanks for sharing!!

secondtime posted 5/16/2019 16:51 PM

Tripletmom

I've actually never asked for full disclosure.

DDay1 was a 12 years ago, DDay2 was 2 years ago.

My husband wasn't really ready to do his recovery work until DDay2, with most of it coming in the last year.

So. I'm not sure I'd get a full disclosure until now, anyway. It's only been about 6 months that I think my husband is really grasping what it means to do hard work. And that's after 2 years working the steps, and 3 years working with a CSAT after DDay1.

My story is different in that my husband has not yet physically cheated on me.

After DDay1, knowing that DH was an addict was really enough for me. I really didn't ask any questions, beyond had he cheated and had he watched child porn. I figured frequency of acting out, etc..didn't change that fact..or make him "more" or "less" of an addict.

After DDay2, I did a lot of processing...really understanding what it means to live with an addict. I asked questions to get better understanding of where DH was, exactly with his acting out, so that I'd know how close he was to cheating. In my case, he did admit to fantasizing about the moms at my kids' school. I stopped short of asking who, because well, we're going to be at that school for a looong time considering we have a 1 year. But, I asked if there were moms that he talked to. Because I think it's easy to start going down that slippery slope if he's talking to them during pick up, etc.

I also asked about the frequency of his slips. That was to help me understand why my gut wasn't screaming. It turns out his slips weren't that often..in the beginning 1-2x a year, then getting more frequent to about once a month. (This took place over 3-4 years). He still didn't approach his typical frequency (2-3 times a week) during his quasi relapse.

TripletMom posted 5/17/2019 09:03 AM

Thank you everyone for your replies to me. The kindness you all show means so much. This is a very lonely place to be, when you donít want to share these details with family or friends so thank you.

Marji - I agree that there are a lot of condescending words and behaviors and definitely a great deal of work needs to be done on humility. Itís not something he has ever shown nor was it modeled for him as a child. He was doing better since this D-day in February but is lately reverting back to that type of behavior with me. Itís his go-to under stress. I canít accept it, especially after finding out about his acting out. Itís disrespect on top of disrespect. Regarding deciding on reconciliation after full disclosure, I am seeing that you are right. However I donít think I would have gotten any truth if he didnít feel there was a good chance of R.

Somber - you are correct. This is severe emotional trauma. Itís unlike any other pain Iíve experienced. Iíve lost both my parents, my mom died suddenly while I was pregnant with triplets and even that pain doesnít compare. When I read the stories on this thread, I see we all have that in common. So sad and unnecessary. He is probably trying to protect himself by omitting details of the affair. My gut is telling me there was an emotional connection. The AP was not a prostitute, but rather an acquaintance. (This affair was in addition to the prostitutes etc). It doesnít mean she is not a whore because she did meet me and our three children and was still able to conduct an affair with him. I know itís ultimately his responsibility to remain faithful to me, but thereís a special resentment I have for someone who could meet our family and still attempt to destroy it. I donít know what would change if I know more details and I donít know if it would help me or hurt me. I do know I have an overwhelming urge to know the details and I think thatís because of living with lies for so many years. Iím sorry the details you received created those visual demons for you. I canít imagine how hard that must be. Itís such a dilemma to know how much ďto knowĒ.

LaniKai - Your 3-day intensive with Dr. Magness sounds amazing. I also love your quote about ďgiving a sick person a chance to get well ď. When I am at my most centered and healthy, I can see his sickness for what it is and can see his pain and want him to also have a chance to get well. Itís so difficult to stay in that space when so much pain and hurt has been inflicted. I go back-and-forth numerous times a day between compassion, despair, and pain. Having compassion does bring me the most peace because I know that in fact he is a sick person who needs help.

Veryhurt2018 - thanks for sharing your story about your husbandís eight year affair. It would be a relief if I find out my Hís affair was also just sex. There were many months of phone contact both calling and texting so I doubt it. I see you also have teen boys. I have three 17 year olds. My heart breaks for them. While they donít know exactly what is going on, they know something is going on. They can see we are having problems and I am so worried about them in all of this. Two of my son suffer from depression and I donít want anything to set them back. I see we both have the need to know details. Thank you weíre sharing that you struggle with the images. I am so sorry about that and I hope that goes away for you eventually.

Second time - I wish I could say I have the patience to wait and not ask for all of the details until the appropriate time but I guess Iím really not as patient as I thought it was. It really feels like torture having to wait for disclosure and itís been a little over three months since this D day. I admire your strength in trying to understand the addiction before asking for full disclosure. I think the fact that it has been so many years of not knowing the truth makes me crave it even more. Thanks for the info about the frequency of slips. My husband has mentioned his acting out was not as frequent as I thought. I had a hard time believing this but maybe itís true.

Thanks again ladies. Wishing you all a peaceful weekend.

Superesse posted 5/17/2019 09:46 AM

(((TripletMom))) I wish I had something to offer that would help with your immediate frustration, fear and shock. Recently I saw one of our "graduates," who has since decided to leave her SA, wrote something I found very helpful: that she can have compassion for the mentally ill from a distance. I think she was trying to solve the pull between 2 opposing feelings: pity (not to mention feeling entangled or involved with it, which we should not get) versus the need to preserve ourselves from becoming, as she termed it, "collateral damage."

Last week I met the most amazing Mom of 3 children, 2 with special needs (autistic spectrum) who has been separated for 5 years from her husband due to his infidelity. She is a special education teacher and loves her work, even with the heavy burden of single motherhood. She told me that she had been scared to decide to leave her husband (who also has autistic traits) BUT to her surprise and relief, the way she felt after they separated proved to be an improvement, even having to work two jobs! It was that damaging to her, staying and trying to cope every day with everything her husband had brought into her life! She said she had "herself" re-emerging, that she felt more peaceful and focused, and best of all, that she didn't have to keep walking on eggshells all the time. It gave me a lot to think about. This was a real life example of what we often read, right here.

I am sending you strength and peace, and to all of us, as wel!l! We need it.

[This message edited by Superesse at 9:53 AM, May 17th (Friday)]

Lifeexploded posted 5/17/2019 21:55 PM

Tripletmom. This is just something you will have to decide for yourself. For me, I had to know the details. And, I think they might be a deal breaker. But. I COULD NOT risk trying to save a marriage that was still based on lying and hiding. Those are the things that feed an addiction, after all. There is one thing my husband cant or wont tell me, and that is who the man is with whom he had sexual contact. He lives in our town and I have a right to know, but he pretends like he has no idea what his name is and gets very frustrated with me if I press him. One day we were actually at the dollar store and when i came out of the store. Sawh had gotten in the back seat of the car. He said the baby had been crying, but she definately hadnt been. There was also an older man talking up a very obviously gay younger man outside the store. So i suspect he was the guy. Anyway. Long story short. Knowing the details hurts. And being lied to and shut out when asking about details also hurts. I needed to know, because i needed to know that he qas capable of telling me the truth even when it totally sucked and he REALLY wanted to keep that info to yourself. I am so sorry that you are here again.

Lionne posted 5/18/2019 21:28 PM

I've known about sex addiction for 10 years now. It was in May of 2009 that I found proof of strip clubs, and saw nasty porn on his computer. To say I was bewildered is an understatement.

As I've navigated this mountain of crap, I've changed my position on a lot of things many times. I've come to believe that SAs and addicts in general ARE sick. I have seen big changes in my brother (NA) and son (AA) and changes in my husband in some ways, but not in the fact and focus of his addiction.

Is it because he is sicker than others? Is it because, unlike drugs and alcohol, sex is part of life, a healthy life anyway, unless one has taken a vow of celibacy. Or is married to a sex addict, lol. Or maybe it's because he was ~58, too old to change a lifetime of addiction starting at age nine?

You are all right. I'm on a seesaw. He uses, I find out and get mad, he insists it's the last time, steps up his work, wash, rinse, repeat.

One thing that scares me is that I become complacent faster and faster. I'm tired of it all, bored with the work it takes, the therapy, the endless blah, blah, blah.

But. Always the but. We are okay day to day. We enjoy our time together, work like a team on projects, laugh a bit, and yes, talk about important stuff. I don't know anyone else (besides Marji!) who shares my passion for nature and birding and other geeky stuff. We like to travel together, aren't interested in some of that fancy trips my close friends enjoy. Neither of us is into fancy stuff. I don't like doing things alone, I just don't. His strengths are endless energy and enthusiasm, mine is organizing and keeping the trips going. We ARE a team.

If he were mean I'd leave. If he were flirting with, cheating with real women, I'd leave.

A few posts back I was asked the question "what do I want?" and was told to not thing magically, wishing it never happened. It's a good question, I can answer it partly.

Peace. I want peace. I want peace in the form of him really maintaining sobriety, but that's out of my control. I have to make my own peace. I have to actively enjoy my garden, my yoga, my cats, my daily routine.

I think we all have some kind of compromise we need to make when married to an SA. As long as we do it after our own therapy and soul searching and analyzing, and if we continue to think about it, measuring our needs as we go. Right now, I'm staying, doing lots of things for myself, lots of self care. I'm going to keep on doing that! Even went car shopping today

In the real world, in good news/bad news territory, my youngest kid is HOME for my birthday tomorrow! I've been dreading it...He works with sensitive medical equipment, cyclotrons, and the machine at a local hospital has been problematic for awhile. He' the "a" team so they flew him in on Friday, he was hoping to leave Saturday but he's stuck here while repairs are ongoing, or till next Friday when he leaves for vacation. I'm thrilled he's here but unhappy he's dealing with this much trouble. He's a bit of a cyclotron whisperer so he'll get it done.

The universe works in strange ways. Maybe this was a gift to me after I was handed so much crap in my life.

Smjsome1 posted 5/18/2019 22:15 PM

Yay Lionne - having your son there is a gift!

I have been reading, not commenting, you all amaze me, so strong in such a bad place. So much of what everyone says resonates with me.

I started EMDR 3 weeks ago, itís exhausting, and we havenít gotten beyond the grounding exercises. I have one session a week, and Iím exhausted for at least a day after.

I lost any and all respect for SAWHís CSAT so while Iím going to EMDR heís seeing my IC, sheís tough, and makes him work.

SAWH told me something terrible about his childhood, he was frantic and I had to calm him, and since that day Iíve lost this gut feeling there is some terrible secret I donít know. So I either know everything, or heís just better at manipulating me.

Smjsome1 posted 5/18/2019 22:15 PM

Yay Lionne - having your son there is a gift!

I have been reading, not commenting, you all amaze me, so strong in such a bad place. So much of what everyone says resonates with me.

I started EMDR 3 weeks ago, itís exhausting, and we havenít gotten beyond the grounding exercises. I have one session a week, and Iím exhausted for at least a day after.

I lost any and all respect for SAWHís CSAT so while Iím going to EMDR heís seeing my IC, sheís tough, and makes him work.

SAWH told me something terrible about his childhood, he was frantic and I had to calm him, and since that day Iíve lost this gut feeling there is some terrible secret I donít know. So I either know everything, or heís just better at manipulating me.

Superesse posted 5/19/2019 01:42 AM

Lionne, glad to know your son will be home for your birthday! 😀

Thanks for sharing those "buts..." I couldn't help checking off the responses I would have for each item, and remarking what a huge difference exists between me and my SAWH, versus you and Mr. Lionne.

We are not really "OK" day-to-day, in the areas you mentioned:

I haven't enjoyed our time together since D-Day 2, 12 years after D-Day 1. We sleep physically separated in the house on separate floors, and I've been in forced celibacy since D-Day 1 in October 2002; I cannot vouch for him. Who knows?

We can't seem to work as peers in any area of life that is important to ME, even though I willingly help with what is important to HIM. Mr. Superesse is a solo operator in his life and work; I suspect he is probably a touch autistic. No matter what we try to do as a team, whether cooking, building something, carrying a piece of furniture, loading a truck, yard work, doing laundry, driving, or caring for our furbabies, he always has to do things his OWN way. He invariably feels the need to alter our game plan even if it makes no real sense and isn't what we both had just talked about. Any benefits of team effort seem lost on him.

Humor? He has little sense of humor for anything I ever attempt to share with him, even if I might be laughing hysterically...which doesn't occur all that often, to begin with! It's like he dare not lose control by joining in any mutual fun. He always did demonstrate this drawback...I used to just tolerate it....but I can't actually understand the 'no sense of humor' part, it makes for a grim existence.

Unlike what you said, we cannot hold a useful conversation about anything significant, as he isn't willing to be present for long if he has to work that hard. His eyes soon drift away to something...anything...to help him detach. This got waaaay worse after D-Day 1, but he never could get into any depth on a subject outside of his expertise area. He is also a master of confusing converstion filled with vague, short phrases I am expected to fill in by reading his mind.

Basically, we share few interests other than our 2 dogs. I think they are the main bond, at this stage.

He always has to have the "final word" on anything, even if it's some off-topic come-back. (I think this is getting worse with our associated age issues!)

Summing up: I was struck by how you still can say: "We ARE a team." That is something I never have felt in my bones and after D-Day 2, now over 5 years ago, I really don't feel the team thing in the ways you describe.

Lionne, with all that you have going for you there, I still think you might want to ask yourself "If something negative developed, what would my Plan B be?" Because you really DO need and want PEACE, and you do NOT control his decisions, as you said.

This is where we are at. Goal: no more sleepless nights!


[This message edited by Superesse at 1:59 AM, May 19th (Sunday)]

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