SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

In order to shield ourselves from continued trauma we do things that, in a normal marriage would be unacceptable, snooping, eavesdropping, hiring a PI...We aren't in normal marriages, the same rules just don't apply.

He is unlikely to ever see it that way. The pouty little boy is offended.

So apologize. You are sorry it "came to that." Repeat as necessary.

And quietly reserve the right to look again if needs be. You are entitled to protect yourself.

Well said, Lionne. I do things I would have considered crazy years ago. It’s survival and protection.

Had I not snooped, I would never even know about the prostitutes. Maybe I wouldn't have known about the high risk HPV and not be getting biopsies and tests twice yearly. Maybe I would have died of cancer.

Fuck their hurt feelings about snooping.

Lionne, I will be looking for the "Cycle and Addiction" and searching for Support Groups right away. At this point, I know the support of a group will help.

Dogs - Snooping? Hell Yes I would! That's how I found out all of the other things he was doing and I still don't know all of it. My WH is the one who gave me a reason to snoop! IMO, your WS is probably upset because he got caught hiding something again.

I grew up in a house where I had NO privacy. My mother would read notes she found in the pockets of my jeans and when I was a Mom, I read my daughter's notes too. Heck yes! We didn't have smart phones back then but snooping on your kid was a way, as a parent, to hopefully keep them safe. Now, I feel by checking and snooping on my WH will maybe keep ME safe. Just my opinion.

P.S. I turned out ok and so did my daughter. jus sayin. ha

Was it you Shocked that said you are just Numb and could not cry? Oh, I cried in the beginning! But now? Nope. I go back and forth from numb to so angry. Do any of your WS's talk about the future and how "great" it's going to be? Mine talks it all the time like nothing ever happened. Damn, that is so hard for me to think about. I wanna gag!

I talked to him yesterday while he was driving after work and told him I was having a really bad day. Guess what he said? "This traffic sucks tonight!" Then he started talking about a used welding machine he just bought. I think I just need to give up.

Oh, important last point. I have always been pretty healthy but lately I'm having serious digestive issues. I think the bad stress and taking anti depressants over the last 6 months is catching up with me. I'm going to go back and read some of the self help books to help with stress. It can be a killer and hurt you before you know it!

Hang in there everyone and take care of yourselves!

Privacy in my house went out the window long ago.

Aug 5th 2017.

Devastated! You Rock!

"Had I not snooped, I would never even know about the prostitutes. Maybe I wouldn't have known about the high risk HPV and not be getting biopsies and tests twice yearly. Maybe I would have died of cancer.

I was not going to share this but I really want other BS's to have tests done after finding out about there SAWH. I noticed something 2 years ago and thought it may be "something" else. After Dday, I had it checked. I know, right?! I should have done this 2 years ago! Anyway, turns out, my WH gave me HPV. There are 3 levels. 1 is mild and 3 is severe. I have number 3 Vulva HPV which is loaded with pre-cancerous cells. I will be having laser surgery soon to have it removed.

I did a ton of research and HPV can be found and spread from the hands and feet and is also found in the back of the tongue near the throat. I think you can all use your imagination.

You are probably wondering what I said to him. I told him I have to have surgery because I have HPV and it's pre-cancerous. He said, "What's that?" I told him it is basically an STD. I asked again, "You promise you have not been physical with any women since we have been married?" He said, "NO!, NEVER!" Well, of course, I know different. If I remember right, he changed the subject to a broken down forklift on the job site that day. I mean C'mon, that was devastating for him!

[This message edited by bluetears at 11:18 PM, February 5th (Tuesday)]

Oh, shame on me. I don't want to paint him in a bad light. He did say he would take off work and drive me to get the surgery done.

Yes, He is a nice guy. He still "takes out the dishes before he pees in the sink"!

Ugh, that sucks, bluetears. If mine doesn't go away, I'll be having the same surgery. This is why they can fuck off about the snooping. They did things that show that they do not care about our health, therefore we have to do all the caring about it ourselves.

I grew up in a house where I had NO privacy. My mother would read notes she found in the pockets of my jeans and when I was a Mom, I read my daughter's notes too. Heck yes! We didn't have smart phones back then but snooping on your kid was a way, as a parent, to hopefully keep them safe. Now, I feel by checking and snooping on my WH will maybe keep ME safe. Just my opinion.

I also grew up in a house with no privacy, including bathroom privacy. I didn't dare ask for the privilege to use the toilet or take a bath without my mother entering and looking at me. Because then I would have been hiding something.

I graduated high school a virgin that didn't drink, didn't do drugs, didn't smoke cigarettes. I also nearly had a 4.0 and received high honors in a few areas. My parents also did not encourage me to have peer friendships outside of school hours (ie, I could how many times I hung out friends a year on one hand). A "treat" was being able to have a friend along on my birthday celebration in high school. I was not allowed to drive anywhere by myself until after I graduated high school. When I was allowed to drive myself, it was a handful of times to a job I had before I left for college. Basically my parents drove me everywhere.

I think my behavior was "good" enough to demonstrate that using the toilet, alone, would be a reasonable request. That I would be trustworthy enough to earn such a privilege.

My mom snooped for a whole host of reasons. None of them healthy. She snooped because she did not believe in boundaries or understand appropriate behavior. (One day, she decided my sex education should consist of Dad and I looking through a playboy magazine and having him tell me what he found attractive in the women on those pages. He was literally so uncomfortable that he was squirming. Didn't matter. My mom and I also looked through a Playgirl, and I was instructed to ask questions about how the men looked. Now, personally, I don't think it's appropriate for a family to bond over porn and hearing parents talk about and seeing them point to what physical attributes they consider sexy. I was a tween/young teen at the time. When most people see someone is literally squirming because of discomfort...they recognize that's a boundary being crossed and I hope would at least consider stopping the behavior.)

My mom snooped because she could take whatever she gleaned out of context and use it to support her narrative (which actually isn't always right.)..In her mind, she could convince herself that she was right. Our family is not a team. Our family had winners and losers. Mom was the winner, and the right/good person. Dad and I were the losers...we were always wrong and the bad people. Snooping helped reinforce that belief for my mom.

My mom snooped because then she could try to find something to humiliate me with. My parents thought making fun out of me and humiliating/shaming me were good methods of discipline. "Catching" me being disobedient was very important to my mother.

It was also my job to snoop on my dad, when my mom instructed me to. And, yes, I was yelled at if I didn't get the right information, or rifle through his vehicle to her satisfaction.

My mom did not snoop to keep me safe. She snooped because she is likely borderline and snooping supports her dysfunction. And like my SA husband, she values her dysfunction over me. Her snooping to serve her needs is exactly like my husband lying to me about his addiction to serve his needs...and not "protecting" me like he framed it.

So. For me. Intent, motive, reasons matter.

[This message edited by secondtime at 12:57 AM, February 6th (Wednesday)]

Secondtime, I'm so sorry. My high school years and home life were nothing like that growing up. My mom trusted me and I had freedom because of that. Yes, she was a snooper but I told her everything and kept no secrets from her. I lost my virginity to my first husband after we dated for a year. My mother was the first person I told!

I hope you have been able to deal with your past. Hugs to you.

Maybe I wouldn't have known about the high risk HPV and not be getting biopsies and tests twice yearly. Maybe I would have died of cancer

DevastatedDee, I also found out I have HPV, which is such a huge bummer. The doctor told me that it could come out anytime so I didn't question it and just thought it was from before I was with him (It had been 10 years at that point). Now I'm just MAD about it because I know it was because of his cheating!!!

[This message edited by veryhurt2018 at 11:20 AM, February 6th (Wednesday)]

Our WHs gave up their rights to privacy the moment they stepped out on our marriages.

I'm terrified to get STD testing. I'm trying to find a place that does it for free because the places that charge are expensive. And we are already taking a hit paying for all of the phone/computer monitoring, therapy and the defense attorney for my lovely jail stay thanks to stupid fucking WH.

Ladies, the good news (if there is good news) about HPV is that your body can actually eliminate certain strains. You may test positive for it now and it's gone in the future. But I know that's not much of a consolation when there are strains of HPV that cause deadly cervical cancer.

I am reading/listening to Brene Brown's book about vulnerability. It's interesting, a relatively easy read and her narration is excellent.

She promotes being vulnerable as a path to "whole hearted" living. I think it's true. I'm not sure how to do that once we experience the kind of betrayals we have.

I'll keep reading.

I'm sorry Veryhurt. Unfortunately, I believe I got this from the asshole. We have been together for 28 years so I'm just doing the math. Hang in there lady!

You know what is amazing? If I found out I had HPV when I thought we were so faithful to each other, I would have felt so guilty and apologized over and over and blamed myself even knowing that I had not been with anyone else since we met.

Lionne, keep us updated on the book and let us know if it is a "worth read". The thought of being vulnerable to anyone ever again is hard to imagine right now. I know I have to open my heart but for now I want to wear my Cast Iron Carhart Bra to protect it.

Love Brene Brown's work. She also talks about being Big: having boundaries, integrity and generosity. We should not be vulnerable without boundaries.

I have HPV and have to get the biopsies. I think I got this one on my own! I did get herpes, though, from my husband. The jerk.

They loose their right to say anything about our snooping. Once their lies and abuse are out in the open, it's no longer an equal marriage. They need to earn and amend their way back into equality. Just remember how unequal our marriages were when they lied, were secretive and gas lighted us. I don't spend one second worrying about what my husband thinks about my snooping. I don't even feel the need to disclose or inform him, unless I want to.

In an honest, loving marriage, our spouse wouldn't have any reason to worry about emails, the phone, or internet history being checked. There would be nothing to hide.

ashestophoenix

I am going to agree with some of you on here, as in screw them if they care about our snooping! If I never snooped, I would not have known anything. My WH is so comfortable living a double live and deceiving me. It is sickening how at ease he can be cheating on me and trying to be intimate with me at the same time.

I continue to snoop now. I sometimes acknowledge how unhealthy it is and how much it affects my mood if I find even the smallest of things. I certainly do not want to spend a lifetime snooping. At this time, it just helps confirm that he isn't changing or putting forth any of the work he once promised. I think it will help me leave once I get everything in order to do so. That is why I no longer even address anything I find. There seems to be no point, I will then just be asking to be lied to and that hurts more. I am also struggling with recognizing I am codependent...almost too much healing to be done after we find ourselves in this situation.

I believe if I didn't snoop, I would get sucked back into his manipulation and gaslighting. I would fall for his handsome charming charismatic version of himself. I know I can not trust him but he is so convincing and has fooled me for years. I am trying hard to break the cycle and snooping seems to help keep me in the loop of his continued behaviour. Otherwise, I would once again be in the dark wondering if I am the crazy one.

Edited to ask: Any tips on breaking this cycle would be greatly appreciated! I am so exhausted and heartbroken from the repetitive infidelities of varying severity. Even the smallest things now crush me. The lies and substance abuse too are destroying who I once was.

I believe a lot of you on here are trying to reconcile...I feel like I have been indirectly doing that for 10 years now. I can't handle another false reconciliation, I feel like I am wasting my life hoping things will finally work out. When what I need to do is face the harsh reality and run away...my empathy is lessened for the addictions and reasons from his childhood that make him the way he is. I feel like that empathy has held me hostage in my marriage too. It has been used against me as a way of manipulation perhaps? No real positive change has ever come from any of this...just repetition of the same.

[This message edited by Somber at 9:35 AM, February 7th (Thursday)]

DevastatedDee

You all need a ME FIRST attitude. They are not like us. They really aren't. They don't think like we do. They don't feel like we do. You can try to learn their language to speak to them in a way that doesn't make them all defensive and such, but why on earth would anyone expect you to? They have serious problems. They caused you serious problems. You have been reduced from being full adults to being mere collateral damage. I say fuck that.

At some point I realised I had to choose loving him or loving myself. Respecting myself. Valuing myself. And that I couldn't have both. So I have to choose me.

Something my therapist said that also helped me was that he is an addict and will always be an addict. There's no 'fixing' that. He will always have the thoughts and urges. He will just learn better coping mechanisms and healthier outlets. So that I need to decide if I want to spend my life with an addict. If I want to take that path. And I don't. I don't want to spend my life suspicious and distrustful of the person I'm supposed to feel safest with, worried and waiting for them to relapse.

Also he got multiple STD's over the last 3 years. I didn't catch any. Logically speaking I should have. My doctor is dumbfounded that I didn't. So I am incredibly lucky on that front. Someone somewhere was looking out for me and the kids.

I can see how broken and devastated he is at the damage he's caused and at destroying our relationship and our family. But after the continued lying and gaslighting while we painfully worked through loads of therapy and loads of vulnerable conversations trying to recincile, I now know truly how incredible of a liar he is and know it's impossible to rebuild trust.

[This message edited by ShatteredSorrow at 12:39 PM, February 7th (Thursday)]

I can relate, ShatteredSorrow. It doesn't matter how many tears they cry or how sorry they are, it doesn't fix the reality that to stay, we're staring down decades of being with someone we cannot trust because it would actually be dumb to trust them. Choosing to love ourselves often does lead to leaving because it's hard to put someone you love through life with an addict.

Something my therapist said that also helped me was that he is an addict and will always be an addict. There's no 'fixing' that. He will always have the thoughts and urges. He will just learn better coping mechanisms and healthier outlets. So that I need to decide if I want to spend my life with an addict. If I want to take that path. And I don't. I don't want to spend my life suspicious and distrustful of the person I'm supposed to feel safest with, worried and waiting for them to relapse.

Shattered, thanks for sharing. This resonated with me.

Living the rest of my life with an addict who will never tell me the truth? I can't do it.

On Dday, I thought he was just looking at Porn and was only "curious" about escort sites. I had no idea what he was actually doing. Well, of course, I found out that he was not just curious! I still feel so stupid for not knowing.

Thank you Lionne! I read the "Cycle of Sex Addiction" and it is so him!

I had a melt down yesterday because I found out that he went to yet Another Bikini Stand one week after we looked at Christmas lights. I thought we had an awesome night! Then I noticed another strange address that he was at from 9:30 until 12:30 at night the same day after the coffee stand.

I have told myself to stop snooping! I don't think I can handle any more. It only hurts ME. I am resigned to the fact that he will always lie and continue to do his addictive crap.

To all of you trying to R, I really hope it turns out for you. I just can't live like this anymore.