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One year ago today I used my H's computer at work (we work together) because mine was down. I asked my co-workers if I could sit in my H's office, being the polite person I am. I had no snooping intentions as I had no suspicions (eye roll).

I Very accidentally came across Craig's list on his browser and there it was, the beginning of my nightmare.

Here is my question...I have not brought this up to my husband of late. Did not tell him I have been triggering about the date, did not tell him I went to bed thinking about it and woke up not wanting to see the date on a calendar.

My IC feels that I need to back off and let him do the work he needs to do. That sharing for the purpose of trying to make him understand how hurt I am is futile until he admits there was a serious problem or possible addiction.

His next step is to be assessed but I've noticed that he has been putting that off with apparent telephone tag with the CSAT.

Coud my H be trying to rugweep at this point?

Would you bring up your D Day to your H and risk the stability and peace your are enjoying after a very long storm?

Note that I only confronted him almost 3 months later so today is only when I had horrible suspicions. I gathered proof and wrapped my head around it long enough to work up the nerve to confront.

Today is a hard and confusing day for me.

One year ago my life changed as I knew it. The H I thought I married was dead and I was handed a new one.

I like the older model better. This newer model really sucks.

Thank you !

H therapist told him that he WILL relapse, which bothered him a lot...

He even said that he felt that he should just" get it over with"

He hasn't looked at porn..AP is long gone and no contact. She lives in another country

Good to hear another perspective.

Therapeutic disclosure is on Thursday.

I don’t feel prepared at all. What should I even be doing to prepare? Before, during, after?

I’m not sure we’re doing this right, but I’m not willing to put it off any longer. I don’t feel like my IC has prepared me at all - actually the more time that passes, the more I feel like she doesn’t have much of a clue about any of this. It’s very disheartening and scary.

I even specifically asked my IC what I can do to prepare. The only thing she had to say was to ask a friend to hang out and/or drive me home after the session. And ... that’s it. That’s all the advice she had to offer.

Someone in a FB group told me that we should put off the disclosure until I am ready to meet his honesty with appreciation not anger. Sorry but that sounds like BS to me. I am GOING to be angry. The only way that wouldn’t happen is if I was dead. I will do my best not to explode on him, but I will feel angry. And appreciation? For what? I’m not interested in being thankful and handing out gold stars. I deserved honesty from him a hell of a lot sooner than this.

[This message edited by DogsnBooks at 12:13 PM, January 29th (Tuesday)]

We still haven't had a disclosure yet. He tells me that I pretty much know everything already, but I still want it.

I am not sure that it's possible to not be angry during the session.

I feel like it's akin to ripping the bandaid off of the wound.

Maybe we aren't ready

Whoami-

My husband's CSAT shared with my husband that he (the CSAT) thought my husband wasn't "getting" the fact that he (my husband) is a addict.

It was the CSAT's polite way of saying he could sniff out DH was a dry drunk. Even with that DH's therapist never told DH directly he was going to relapse.

I've never gotten a disclosure, either. But, I guess for me it doesn't matter. My husband is still willing to lie to protect his addiction..or he was up until a few weeks ago.

Even after almost 5 years of sobriety.

I don't know whether or not he's really going to be honest about his addiction, to anyone, including himself. So I guess I don't get the point of disclosure.

I did a quick google search, and I'm really shocked that they expect an SA to be in all out recovery after 90 days. That doesn't seem like nearly enough time.

Someone in a FB group told me that we should put off the disclosure until I am ready to meet his honesty with appreciation not anger. Sorry but that sounds like BS to me. I am GOING to be angry. The only way that wouldn’t happen is if I was dead. I will do my best not to explode on him, but I will feel angry. And appreciation? For what? I’m not interested in being thankful and handing out gold stars. I deserved honesty from him a hell of a lot sooner than this.

DogsnBooks - That's ridiculous, if you ask me. I don't know ANYONE that wouldn't have anger afterwards. My anger didn't really come until the next day, and then it was really ugly for about a day. I didn't prepare at all for the disclosure. This is not a recommendation, but just telling you what I did. I had 2 glasses of wine because I didn't think I could handle it (I'm sure people are going to have a lot of comments about that, but I'm just being honest). I drove with SAWH so I didn't need to worry about driving. Don't really recommend driving together afterwards though because the ride home was very hard. Ours lasted 3.5 hours, don't know if that's normal, just telling you what happened. I will be thinking about you on Thursday, please make sure to use SI if you need support. Hugs!!!

One more thing that I learned is that as my SAWH start working the steps of any 12-step program, there could be more that comes out, because he is uncovering the pain. This was told to me when we went to the couples SA meeting a few weeks ago.

[This message edited by veryhurt2018 at 4:39 PM, January 29th (Tuesday)]

ShockedIm wondering if your IC has experience working with those who have been traumatize by betrayal and long term, habitual betrayal. Her telling you to "back off and let him . . ." would suggest that she is not a trauma therapist. They do not normally advise clients on what to say or how to treat the betrayer.

You should feel free to say whatever you feel you need to say; your H should be working on hearing you, empathizing with you, understanding you and caring. It sounds as if your IC is coaching you in eggshell walk or just plain old fashion motherly advice on how not to disturb the husband.

It's sounding a bit of a cat and mouse game where open, honest communication of thought and feeling might be healthier.

You should feel free to talk about what is bothering you and he should be regarding your sharing these feelings as an opportunity to show he desire to make amends.

Shocked, an "assessment" with a therapist who is experienced working with SAs can take a very long time and ultimately goes only so far as the potential SA volunteers innermost thoughts and feelings.

It can in fact take many sessions over many months for a betrayer and the therapist to decide whether the client is dealing with a true addiction. Does that mean you don't share your thoughts and feelings?

What's appropriate is really something for you to decide.

Marji,

I think my new IC was trying to tell me that no matter how many times I ask my H why, until he is ready to do the work to understand why, I am beating a dead horse. No matter how many times I ask how he could have done such a thing, I will get all kinds of stupid excuses;

I wasn’t paying attention to him, the kids were stressing him out, he hates his work partner, the girls In the office office talk too much, I “changed”.

She cautioned me that the more he repeats these excuses, the more I may buy into them. She is encouraging me to stop asking him simply because she wants me maintain my resolve and stop listening to excuses and set a boundary of him meeting with his CSAT. We have been spinning our wheels for too long with a therapist who just didn’t understand betrayal trauma and possible addiction .

This team we have now is part of an addiction Center.

The CSAT he is supposed to see ran another Center in a large city for 30 years, specializing in sexual addiction. She studied under Patrick Carnes in the US. The IC I am seeing was revisited by the CSAT as a sexual betrayal therapist trained in California at an addiction Center. She dealt with families and souses of Addicts.

They both run sanon meetings as well as group therapy meetings for spouses of Sa’s.

I finally reminded my H that a year ago today I discovered nasty stuff on his computer.

He has since been pouting in another room, looking sad. Like I’m supposed to go over and reassure him?

Once agin, he’s the victim. Poor baby’s feeling are hurt. BS brought it up again. Guess he thought rug sweeping was going to be sufficient to shut me up!

Hi Shocked thank you for explaining more on what your therapist meant by advising you the way she did. I think you are saying that she thinks there's really no point in asking your H why he did what he did because he's not doing the kind of work she thinks he needs to do to be able to answer the question in a meaningful way. Also that she's encouraging you to set a boundary about his meeting with a therapist. That you did find a CSAT but he has yet to start working with that person.

Shocked the fact that your H went off in self-pity mode after you shared with him your bad feelings and thoughts on this particularly triggery day suggests he has a lot of work to do. I hope that something inspires him to undertake that task. There's no rewinding or deleting what they've done--and in your H's case, quite like mine, even down to the years, there'd be a lot of deleting to do; but now they can work their butts off to change; they can devote themselves to making amends and toward living a new life of honesty and integrity; they can work to become people more worthy of our trust.

I hope your H decides to make that commitment and that you can find your own peace and your own enjoyments in life whether or not he does.

OMG, even more than wanting to know what my SAH did, I wanted to know WHY he did it. I asked and asked and asked....and I now realize, he was clueless. He didn't know why he was an addict, he didn't even see himself as an addict. I think they must figure out their "why" in order to truly recover, but that takes time and hard work. Insight is not a skill of my husband and he has to learn it.

I have learned, painfully, that sobriety is not recovery. And it's so much better when they are sober, but it's not enough. I honestly think sobriety is the easy part, and we know how hard that is for our partners. Understanding and addressing their early trauma, now that's hard. Learning mature skills of life management and relating to others, now that's hard. They still need to do all of this. It's called "adulthood."

The whining and pouting really points out both how self centered they are, and how immature. And my husband falls apart at the drop of a hat. No wonder he had to escape all the time. He had zero resilience and zero maturity.

ashestophoenix

[This message edited by LaniKai at 6:39 PM, February 1st (Friday)]

I never post in this thread because I know that I'm probably going to suck at being supportive. It's just...people are telling the trauma victims how to react and how to feel and how to hand-hold and baby the eternal victim who cheated on you and I just can't even with that crap.

My WH is an alcohol, drug, and apparently porn and prostitute addict. I left.

I just want to jump in and say YOU ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PERSON WHO HURT YOU RIGHT NOW. Yes, they have "problems" and "issues", etc. and so on. What they have is a lack of maturity, empathy and integrity. Disease, character defects, whatever. Who cares?

To be focused on or be asked to focus on his problems is such a compounding of abuse on all of you that it enrages me. You all need a ME FIRST attitude. They are not like us. They really aren't. They don't think like we do. They don't feel like we do. You can try to learn their language to speak to them in a way that doesn't make them all defensive and such, but why on earth would anyone expect you to? They have serious problems. They caused you serious problems. You have been reduced from being full adults to being mere collateral damage. I say fuck that.

If you focusing on yourselves and showing yourselves the love that you absolutely deserves means the marriage ends, so be it. If it means that they grow the hell up and decide to figure this whole "adulting" thing out, so be it. I want to hug all of you and tell you that you are worth more than the treatment you have received. You deserved and deserve much better than this garbage.

I say all that with love and empathy. I know the pain of this and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Dee, I agree 100%. As a matter of fact that the new IC we are seeing, together for right now, reiterated that addicts are totally selfish and ego centered.

I am learning to be selfish in many ways, at least regarding him. I do things for myself.

And I think your words are wonderfully supportive.

Good, Lionne. I hoped to come across as supportive. I feel like you are all my sisters in this and I wish for you all to have peace and joy again. I know that this road is hell. It really is. I dealt with therapists who would encourage me to "understand" my addict too and I was absolutely outraged by the suggestion. Here I am broken by someone else's actions and I need to be the only adult once again? No. Like many of you, my WH was "nice" and "sensitive" and all that on the surface. I was blindsided.

I'm glad your current therapist knows what you're dealing with better than so many others do.

Dogs-

Thinking about you.

DH got done with his session with his therapist almost a half hour ago. I know he's trying to hurry through errands to get home because I need to get to work..

He also knows I'm having major anxiety over his appointment. Some sort of sharing would have been nice right away..It doesn't take long to write "meh" or "went ok" or something via text.

But, I'm also trying to remember my husband is not in a position to think/feel/act like a healhty person. So I shouldn't expect it.

<sigh>

see,

Thanks for the reminder. This thinking is more in line with my new IC’s way of thinking. Stop feeling sorry for him and set boundaries for this marriage.

Then let him do the work to understand the past and deal with the future.

We did not cause this and it’s not up to us to Clean up their act. We are responsible for protecting ourselves from further hurt. If they do not uphold their end of the deal, we offer consequences.

No excuses, no lying, no whining, no pouting.

That’s are signs of someone who is refusing to change/

Your post was spot on.

Thanks

@Dogs-holding you in the light today...

Trauma bond. This phrase has been an earworm for weeks. I don't think I'm fully trauma bonded but clearly the nature of this addiction guarantees that the SAWS is probably the only one that knows your whole story.

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/10-steps-to-recovering-from-toxic-trauma-bond-0110175

Lionne, thank you for that link on breaking free of a trauma bond. I thought it was a really helpful article.

ashestophoenix

Questions for those of you who are trying to R:

1.How are some of you able to stay married knowing you will never be able to completely trust him again?

2.If you are having sex with him, are you worried he might do “something” that might give you an STD?

3.How often do you think about what he did to you?

4.I asked him, “Why do you want to be with ME? Why did you want to marry me? Why didn’t you just leave me if that’s what you wanted? Have any of you asked these questions? Did you get an answer?

5.A lot of you are in R with IC’s, SA counseling, etc. Your WS’s are doing the work. If my WH refuses to even tell me the truth and will never admit he has a problem, how in the world will we ever be able to start any type of R?

Bluetears, I saw this on the last forum page.

1. Staying married for me involved different stages of decisionmaking. At first, I was so traumatized and depleted I wasn't in shape to make a major life decision about staying or going. It was easier to stay. I had a stage where I was desperate to figure out how to make my marriage work but learned that my focus needed to be on me. I started to detach and that moved me into focusing on me and my healing as my top priority. Then, my marriage became a business decision for me. I consulted a divorce attorney and was aware that if I divorced, I would lose my health insurance coverage and half of my money. I have a chronic incurable illness and my health insurance is from my husband's employee retirement plan. It's very good insurance and I could never afford it on my own. Now my husband is in active recovery and changing, and I have changed my view of marriage and what I want from him. I see him more as a partner, or a friend, maybe with benefits maybe not. But I don't think of him in any deeply affectionate or romantic way. My focus is on me.

2. I had sex with my husband early on after years of anorexia. I got tested for STD's. I don't have sex now since I have no desire for him. I know some women who insist on their partner wearing a condom.

3. Daily. I think about it daily. But less often during the day with a lot less pain.

4. Yes, I asked these questions. He actually answers in an immature, inarticulate kind of way. He wanted to marry me, he wanted it to work. I believe that. BUT...he believed that was all my responsibility to deliver to him. He didn't think he had to do anything to make it work. Very immature and entitled. And, he wanted to have his cake and eat it too by keeping up the addiction and having the convenience of a wife.

5. I don't believe you can reconcile if they don't admit their addiction or get into recovery. But staying and reconciling are two different things.

My husband is changing for the better. It's very slow and very hard. I do believe he desperately wants the marriage to work. I'm not so sure how much that is about me, caring about me. He cares, and clearly cares more than in the past. But I won't trust him, ever, like I once did. And I still don't know what I will do with him in the long run.

ashestophoenix

[This message edited by ashestophoenix at 8:15 AM, February 2nd (Saturday)]