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Betrayed Womenz Thread

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Tallgirl posted 7/18/2019 15:41 PM

You all know that fruit and vegetable decomposition never happens in male managed vehicles.

My WHy husband NEVER did a full grocery shop.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 4:25 PM, July 18th (Thursday)]

northeasternarea posted 7/18/2019 20:37 PM

My WH has been doing all the grocery shopping and cooking for the last month.

cocoplus5nuts posted 7/18/2019 20:40 PM

Tallgirl, they say it gets worse before it gets better. You will find your way. What are you doing for yourself?

I'm going on vacation for 5 days tomorrow to eastern NC. Just me and my 15 year old son. He wants to visit friends. He was very adamant that he had to go. People were expecting him. I think he might be meeting a girl.

We're staying with friends, which will be so nice. And, I won't have to take care of anyone but myself. No 7 year old wanting more food. No old man freaking out because we are low on milk and toilet paper. I going to nap on the beach all by myself, or maybe with the older daughter.

cocoplus5nuts posted 7/18/2019 22:22 PM

I was right! My son is meeting a girl in NC. She's a friend of his friend that we are staying with. They friended each other on snapchat, and have been messaging each other regularly. ❤

Tallgirl posted 7/19/2019 05:56 AM

I was just re-reading a few of these posts. Ladies we are quite entertaining.

Been thinking of the wedding a couple of weeks ago - as I recover from exercising - I did a quick count. At a table of eight there were four women who had been cheated on and one woman was a cheater. ..

Isnít that crazy!!!!! Only one of the women, decided she simply didnít like her husband after his cheating. And that was her second marriage, both cheaters.

And this was at a wedding. Hysterical and a little sad.

Chaos, hope your vacation is stellar!

Coco., that is cute! Hope he likes her in person. Please let me know if they actually talk, kids seem to text even if theyíre in person. I have vacation planned in August, Iím not sure what Iíll do. And Sunday I am off to a lavender farm, Iím looking forward to it. Apparently they make lavender ice cream, who knew?

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 6:00 AM, July 19th (Friday)]

cocoplus5nuts posted 7/19/2019 07:26 AM

Oooooh, a lavender farm! That sounds so nice. I saw some lavender nondairy ice cream at the store the other day.

Yes, Chaos! Hope the vacation is fun!

Idk if I'll know if they actually talk. I doubt I'll be around.

Here's a funny about him and girls. My oldest son is 28. His friends, girls, are surprised when he tells them about his older brother. He shows them a picture of them, and the lose it. "OMG! He's so hot! Does he have an Instagram?" My poor 15 year old is standing there like, "I'm right here." 😄

cocoplus5nuts posted 7/19/2019 23:07 PM

My WH has been doing all the grocery shopping and cooking for the last month.

My fch does most of the grocery shopping all the time. He cooks dinner almost every night. He does it because he follows a specific diet and wants things done a certain way.

I'm in NC. Enjoying myself. Drinking too much wine. Planning to go to the beach tomorrow.

HeHadADoubleLife posted 7/19/2019 23:11 PM

Tallgirl, see if they have lavender lemonade as well! It's an acquired taste, but I love it!

Tallgirl posted 7/26/2019 17:28 PM

Ladies the lavender farm was great. I opted for lavender ice cream over lemonade as they only had porta potties. I didnít want to risk having to pee. Those things are disgusting.

The ice cream was awesome.

Tomorrow is kick boxing. I am gonna hit that bag and think of WH and all the crap from the last 15 months. May have to buy a replacement bag.

Marz posted 7/26/2019 22:55 PM

Be proactive and get some ointment for pulled muscles.

Tallgirl posted 7/27/2019 11:09 AM

Haha Marz. I hurt everyday. It will be my second workout today.

Even after 1 year at Orangetheory I feel unfit. My goal is to do one full proper push up from my toes this year. Still doing them from my knees so I have work to do.

Chaos posted 7/29/2019 08:23 AM

Tallgirl - I'll buy you another lavender ice cream cone with lavender sprinkles and a to go pitcher of lavender lemonade to take with you if you give that bag a big ass kick for my WH and his Donut Whore of an AP for me

cocoplus5nuts posted 7/29/2019 14:30 PM

My goal is to do one full proper push up from my toes this year. Still doing them from my knees so I have work to do.

Have you tried straight legged with your feet wide? That's how I finally went from knee push ups to military. I can do 10 now.

marriageredux959 posted 7/29/2019 17:46 PM

I need to speak up and be a part of this thread, because I need the support, I need the sense of community, I need the shared wisdom.

Trouble is, when I read many of your stories and your struggles and your bravery in the face of same, my instantaneous, consistent gut reaction is, "I'm not worthy."

My situation is real and it's complicated enough but it's not even the same degree or depth of bullshit that you all have weathered and negotiated and triumphed over, each in your own way.

Many times I feel like I'm simply taking up space and not offering much of value here.

And I know I'm *stuck,* but I'm afraid my *stuck* is as intractable as our very personalities, Husband and me.

We all know that there are many forms of infidelity, and that often the actual physical/sexual/romantic infidelity is just another facet of a relationship that is, shall we say, less that equitable? Less than mutually committed? Less than mutually committed to the common good?

I have always realized that I negotiated my right to have a voice in *our* world, in *Husband's* world, against a deep well of Husband's neediness (for validation, to avoid conflict at all costs, for independence, for autonomy, for respect) that was a by product of Husband's FOO.

I negotiated that landscape by giving, giving, giving some more, sometimes with nary a peep nor a whimper, as silent and as deep as the grave, and sometimes with great and loud protest, but I gave. And gave. And gave some more.

This resulted in a more or less cohesive front, and because Husband ultimately desired a life of order and realized ambition and return on investment, a life that more or less resembled "success." Only Husband morphed into a workaholic and I morphed into a well-organized Ex-O (cocoplus5nuts knows what I mean, I suspect others do as well) who was largely ignored, put upon mightily, sexually frustrated and seething.

In the end, ultimately, I gave up for a few years. I went through menopause, I gained weight, and I thankfully kissed my pesky libido goodbye. One less demand on both of us.

This was no where near the time when Husband had his little peccadillo. When that occurred years earlier, I was a taunt, tight mother with a strong sex drive, in my native habitat in a string bikini, who was mistaken for a swimsuit model, who was asked more than once (more than twice!) if those were my biological children.

In fact, the woman with whom Husband's infidelity occurred weathered child bearing, evidently, less well than I did, judging by Husband's description.

I bear her no ill will and I give his description without ire. It just goes to show that it wasn't about me, and it wasn't about her, even: it was about the availability of easy, anonymous sexual contact for which he was (in the moment, apparently) not accountable.

And that leads to the questions: why her? Why right then? He had easy, available, enthusiastic, attractive and as varied as one human being can conjure, sex at home. And yet...

...that it was anonymous or nearly so appears to be a big part of the mind fuck for me.

Husband sees it as proof positive that he wasn't rejecting me. I get it. I see it as proof positive that he was rejecting the intimacy that we'd built, and into which we'd brought babies. That screws with my head, with my sense of belonging, of structure, of place, of commitment, big time. He says that's not true, he was not rejecting our intimacy- but I cannot process his denial. At that moment in our lives, especially- so (apparently) bonded, with babies at home, moving into the next concrete steps of building a life together, I would have chopped my own hands off before I touched another man intimately.

I can't help but see it as an act of overt destruction, like he threw a grenade into the house on purpose just to see if he could, just to see if he could get away with it. Not exactly to set himself free- he could have done that easily enough- but to establish some distance in as toxic a manner as possible. I wonder even now if the distance was what he needed- or if he actually desired the *toxic* distance?

I so understand (as much as I can, I get it that I've not walked in your shoes) the pain of being replaced not only with another body, but with another *relationship.*

There is a similar but oppositional pain: the pain of being supplanted, of realizing that the vow was broken, over nothing but an anonymous body and cheap sex.

It is, as many have said, a mind fuck.

In the meantime...

DDay 2, a more accurate one that began with a surprise disclosure that happened at (upper-ish) middle age and then reverted to trickle truth and defensiveness FOR MONTHS, occurred after I'd gotten my act back together, lost weight, demanded a resolution to the dead bedroom or I WAS WALKING.

I may be obtuse here but I honestly don't think the two were related, the revelations of DDay2 and the demand to resolve the dead bedroom. Or, maybe they were, in some sort of inverse fashion. I don't think it was a 'push back' in terms of "See? You aren't all that!" but the cumulative effect on me was 'Earlier troubles, current troubles,' and "OH GREAT NOW THIS THANKS A LOT HUSBAND."

If anything, it was more absolute, genuine surprise that I had rug swept so incredibly efficiently years earlier.

But here's where I think I have distilled my damage:

There were, and have been, other 'infidelities' other than the overt, sexual one.

There were years of capitulation by Husband, who in turn demanded capitulation from me at the expense of domestic harmony, to avoid conflict, to achieve validation, to be beyond reproach.

Husband spent decades kissing the world's ass with my lips, to make life easier for himself.

And it worked.

I am ashamed to say it, but damn, it worked. It worked for Husband, it worked for the world, it worked for everybody else but me.

Except it did sort of work for me too- I was left alone to translate the fruits of our labor (and the fruits of avoiding conflict) into whatever I chose. Since what I chose was also largely (as much as I could make it) conflict free, positive, forward moving and forward thinking, frugal, etc., we got a good ROI by conventional standards.

Only, again, it left me as a confused, frustrated, lonely, neglected, at times ill-used and at times an overtly disrespected seething mess. A seething mess with a meat and potatoes life and a solidly secure footing and positive balance sheet, and even a few baubles to show for it- but at the expense of anything even resembling marital intimacy.

I was working my way out of that- I honestly was!- I was demanding change and getting it- when DDay 2 happened and it swept me at the fucking knees.

What's happened since?

Well, there ain't no turning back now. I'm not retracing my steps. Where ever we, or each of us ends up, there we are.

I've had plastic surgery since DDay 2. I haven't discussed it on SI because doing so might be too personally identifiable. It's pained me to not respond to the threads on body image. I will say this much: I'm glad I did it, and I'd do it again.

I will also say this: it is physically demanding. DO NOT TAKE THIS STEP LIGHTLY.

And that in and of itself is its own mind fuck: You're gonna end up with a different body (if not, what is the point?) One or both of you may enjoy it more, or less, or you may be divided on the outcome. Either way, you both, but you, personally and especially, will be left parsing the value of your personal being vs. your physical being.

If you are already dealing with the aftermath of infidelity, take this seriously. It's no small thing.

Here's where I am currently:

It's changed the way I feel about myself. I feel as though the clock has been moved backwards, that I have physically regained beauty and confidence and physical attractiveness that was lost (and unrequited) whilst dithering about in Husband's emotional, psychological and sexual desert. I have regained a sexual and physical beauty that was frittered away on a man who had his head stuck up his ass. I feel, not necessarily physically but more psychologically, somewhat made whole again? Like something that was stolen from me has been returned.

Husband is making his own efforts in terms of reversing the dead bedroom. We are finding new mutual ground. This is a good thing. Perhaps it's simply extended hysterical bonding- hysterical bonding prolonged by medical intervention. Hell if I know. I'm going to enjoy it while we have it.

In this way, the plastic surgery has positively influenced the way I feel about us. It's given me enough of a crutch (and, in all fairness, I will describe it exactly that way) to allow me to move about in my own skin, knowing that I am the best I can possibly be at this age. Is it perfect? No, but it's damned close enough. Do I look like I did at 18? 22? In my late 20s when Husband took his little excursion? No, I do not! In some ways I actually look better, I think... but it's with depth, not with untouched physical beauty.

One thing has not changed: the plastic surgery has not changed how I feel about Husband, or what he's done, or what he's not done.

In this manner the plastic surgery has helped with 'differentiation.' There's his journey, and then there's my journey... and perhaps we will share, but there is a gap in which there is oxygen (giving Esther Perel credit here) and room for each of us (me) room to grow.

Also, the very radical act of choosing my own path, of diverting resources and time and funds and blood and sweat and tears to my own needs, desires, ego, validation, etc. has once again established me as an individual, not an owned commodity to be exploited. And as such, I am making decisions and creating boundaries not only with Husband, but in other areas, with other entities and with other people, and those boundaries are long, long overdue.

OK THAT'S ENOUGH FOR NOW. I've typed your eyes out. This has been a free-form overshare. I am exhausted. I hope at least some of you get it, and that some of you find it helpful- and if not, at least thought provoking.

Make no mistake, I realize that there are opposing points of view and that those points of view are worthy of equal respect and attention. Body modification surgery is not for everyone, it's not for every situation, it's not a one stop shopping solution, it doesn't cure every problem, and in fact- perhaps it cures none of them. Perhaps the same affect can be obtained with other acts of subversive independence, of overt autonomy, of self-improvement of less corporal influence: a new degree, a new job, a new abode, a move across town, across country or across the street-

...or maybe a simple "No" shall suffice. :)

/thusendethmentalmeandering
(i hope this confessional helps someone, somehow)
*earningmykeep

Tallgirl posted 7/29/2019 19:46 PM

Chaos. I am getting my own bag. It was a great release. Happy to boot it for you in honour of your WH. Send me a picture and I can video it. Lol. How was your vacation? How was it between you?

Coco. Man doing a push-up from my toes military style sounds tough but I will try it. Tomorrow. Haha. No really. Lol. Seriously I will. I am in bed now. I hurt so bad I had a hard time walking. For two days. Sad eh.

Marriageredux
First of all welcome. You must be a writer because that post was powerful. There is a lot to unpack and iíd Like to start by saying your pain is no less than any of ours. Your damaged self - much of what you wrote resonated. So my first point is that you Are deserving as we are to post in this thread, please do not think otherwise.

I wanted to say this before I take my tired and bruised ass to sleep. I will be back with thoughts to take or leave.

One thought. Punching bags are awesome.

Big hugs ladies.

cocoplus5nuts posted 7/30/2019 09:15 AM

Yes, marriageredux, you are worthy. Your writing is amazing, too. I have to admit that I don't think I understood all of it.

Chaos posted 7/30/2019 10:10 AM

Tallgirl - I'll get you a pic of WH and AP and let you have at them!

Pause as Chaos sips coffee, eats chocolate, wiggles her fingers and laughs maniacally.

marriageredux959 - bad ass and powerful post. Plastic Surgery - YOU do what YOU have to do to reclaim YOU! What the rest of the world things of it is of no concern. I do feel kind of lame typing 2 sentences after such a bold outpouring. But I mean it. Bad ass and powerful post. You do YOU.

ETA: my vacation was wonderful. Relaxing. Refreshing. Renewing. No triggers, no drama, no...nothing A related. I got a glimpse of a possible future for us as empty nesters. It looked good and doable. We never argued. We got along great. We did things together. We did our own thing [I walked on the beach if he took a nap], we did things with a group of friends also there. Conversation never lagged nor was it ever forced. It simply was. And it was good.

[This message edited by Chaos at 10:13 AM, July 30th (Tuesday)]

northeasternarea posted 7/30/2019 12:43 PM

Chaos, glad your vacation as enjoyable.

[This message edited by northeasternarea at 8:04 AM, July 31st (Wednesday)]

cocoplus5nuts posted 7/30/2019 15:48 PM

Wonderful news, Chaos! I might just go off an a walkabout by myself when we become empty nesters.

A particular someone is offended that there's a thread joking about paying WPs for sex as if they were whores. Life sucks.

marriageredux959 posted 7/30/2019 19:06 PM

Thank you all. :)

TallGirl, thank you for your welcome and your thoughts. You too, Chaos, and I'm glad that you had a wonderful vacation. :)

Cocoplus5nuts, I think I am taking a recap of my entire marriage. In fact, I know I am.

Finding out the true nature of a indiscretion (in my case, or finding out about a full blown affair for others) in the distant past is like being placed in a time machine (whether one wants to step into the time machine or not.)

Any and all issues in the marriage, in the past as well as in the present, both before and after the infidelity, are suddenly placed in an entirely new context with this new information.

I am processing through the issues in our marriage, everything with which we've struggled over multiple decades, and (correctly or incorrectly, both may be true) I am relating and identifying other behaviors, tendencies, issues, incidents and difficulties that while they may not have been sexual infidelities, may have arisen from the same general wayward mindset.

Per above, I could be wrong about some of the correlations I've drawn, or I could be spot on.

Regardless, I am now speaking up for myself more, I am acting in my own self interest (not just automatically taking one for the team) and I am setting boundaries and enforcing them in ways I have not before.

I would not, prior to this past year, identified me/us as 'codependent' (because we are both independent and independent minded people) but in some fundamental ways, I guess we were.

I should also say that I feel terribly guilty after I spill it all out there like that previous post. Husband isn't perfect but he's trying hard. My new parameters have upset life in ways that are challenging for him, given his way of negotiating life and handling the world, but he's hanging in there and being supportive of me and of us.

But, it's like this: all of the sudden I have this perceived clarity, maybe I have it wrong, maybe I have it right, some combination, but I've found my clarity and I've found my voice. And regardless of whether Husband gets it all perfect from this moment forward (and I don't expect that) this flood of self-realization is coming out of me, one way or the other. =/

I just want to note here that Husband is trying, hard.

I think a big part of the problem for me is that I dealt with all of the other dysfunction in our marriage for YEARS, DECADES, by clinging to the consolation prize of, "Yes, I know he's difficult, but he obviously loves me, and besides/because, he is/has been faithful."

Urm, WHOOPS. =/

So that narrative got pulled out from under my feet...

... so now what? =/

Also, thank you all for reading that EPIC SCREED. I really did a huge emotional dump in that long post. Thank you to each and every peep who waded through that dump! <3

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