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Emotionless Infidelity Part 4

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heartbroken83 posted 9/15/2019 18:54 PM

Exactly, if he can sleep with someone else and not love them, why should I think he loves me any more than her or even at all?

outofsorts posted 9/16/2019 10:17 AM

Hi Heartbroken,

I don't have an answer to your question just sympathy... My husband had hand jobs at "massage parlors" for six months before sleeping with a prostitute. There were no emotions involved which for me is tough because it feels like he caused me an overwhelming amount of pain for absolutely no reason - for a fracking hand job!!!! The stupidity of this just boggles my mind.

At one point early on in the process WH said he didn't think he had very deep feelings (but that he did have deep feelings for me). Our MC thinks WH just grew up thinking he wasn't able to feel due to FOO issues.

One of the hardest things about this is it makes you rethink your own marriage and how much you really know your partner.

I am so sorry you are going through this.

heartbroken83 posted 9/16/2019 11:51 AM

Yes it does! I feel like I don't even know who my husband is anymore. All the things I loved about him was a lie.

Our church leaders are counseling us right now and they believe it has something to do with his childhood. So he is trying to get prepared to dig into that.

Thank you for your kind words and wishing you the best.

heartbroken83 posted 9/16/2019 19:32 PM

I was triggered today just because I am trying to do some thing with H to just hang out. All we ever do is talk about the kids, or church, or the affair. I want a day of us again. I don't even know if this is possible but I want it. He was my best friend and I miss him. Anyways I told him "I miss us" and started crying. I hate my emotions. I hate that he did this and I hate that my life will never be the same. I aiming for better but just don't see that far ahead at the moment. I don't know I'm probably crazy...

marji posted 9/16/2019 19:56 PM

heartbroken You are not crazy; you are experiencing all the things we all experience when we find out what they have done, what they are capable of; what we experience when we learn more about them than we'd ever think possible.

After discovery it's common to think and feel that "everything" we knew or loved about them was a lie--but it's usually not that simple. It's obviously true that there was more to them (or less) than we knew but what we knew wasn't completely a lie--just that some important part was a part that is very dark and very destructive.

If you can find a counselor who is experienced working with betrayal trauma that can help enormously; if you can find an IRL support group with people you feel comfortable to learn and share with that can also make huge difference.

But yes, it's common to miss the familiar, pre-awareness "us." But that other couple, the one that was innocent, where both people were true to one another, where there was no deception, no exploitation, no betrayal-that pair is gone.
So now it's whether there can be a new life, a new marriage. And for some couples that is possible though it usually requires that the betrayer work very hard to do all possible to change into a better human being.

You say your H is "trying to get prepared to dig into" why he could do such a thing-what about his past might help explain things.

Good that he seems willing but "trying to get prepared" sounds a bit disconnected and puzzling. How does one "prepare" to learn about their past? And what does "trying" to get prepared mean? Let's hope he not trying and not preparing but currently "working" with someone experienced and knowledgeable to learn about himself and do the work necessary to become an honorable and trustworthy partner that deserves you.

heartbroken83 posted 9/16/2019 20:39 PM

He really does not want to dig into his childhood at all. He has a wonderful mother who raised him and 3 sisters pretty much on her own. I think he thinks that if he tries to blame his childhood he is disrespecting her in some way. I believe it has a lot to do with the abandonment of his real father and abuse from the step father before he was out of the picture. All these memories are very hard for him to remember as he has blacked them out. He blacks out lots of things in his life that are hurtful and that didn't make sense at the time. These are questions and feelings he is gonna need to talk with his long lost father about. He has not told me much about his past but the things regarding his dad and step dad that he has told are not good at all. So he has to prepare himself. I hope that makes sense. If his mom ever finds out what he did, she might just kill him, at least one of his sisters too. Not many people know about his betrayal. Some people in my family but I don't think he told any of his and I don't think it is my place to tell his family.

marji posted 9/16/2019 21:46 PM

heartbroken You sound like a very caring, kind and sensitive person. I hope you are taking good care of yourself throughout this difficult time. I mean basic good care with sleeping and eating well; then the next level of care which is doing things you enjoy doing, being with people you like and who like you --no need to tell anyone anything you don't feel like but if you're with others and not feeling so hot, you can always say something very general. Just be sure not to isolate yourself. The more people you're around, the more you're out there in the world and being part of it the better you can feel.

Sometimes just being with others can feel good. You seem like a sociable, outgoing person so be sure to stay that way. Some people retreat in these situations. Please don't go that way.

Don't remember if you have children but if so, then just take extra pleasure in their company; if you can exercise, journal, learn a new hobby, so much the better. It's not about escaping but about healing from the trauma. Some people find talking with their betrayer about what happened helps; some find it adds to the pain. You'll find what works best for you. Don't know if anyone's mentioned but there is a library here-Upper Left Yellow Corner has The Healing Library.

It can help to have an IRL support group-much like here on SI but it can help to meet and be with people dealing with the same challenges. You're going to be ok. Really. It just takes lots of time and lots of work but you will be ok.

ElizabethC posted 9/17/2019 13:26 PM

Bah. Stupid, stupid trigger. Had to take my car into the shop for brake pads and was told I needed new tires ASAP. They didn't have any tires, so I went to Walmart to get them replaced. I was told it would take about an hour, so I wandered around Walmart for an hour browsing various aisles. When the hour was up, I returned to the auto section, and saw my car wasn't quite ready, so I sat down in the waiting room. They had Friends reruns playing. I've seen a handful of episodes, but not many. Anyway, in the 3 minutes that I was sitting in that waiting room, it was a scene of Phoebe with some client that she started making out with, and then other people walked in, another client asked why he wasn't getting that kind of service, references to this not being that kind of massage place, and the guy's wife wanted to know where he was, etc etc etc. I got up and walked out. How the hell is that scene, that 3 minute scene the one I got to watch in Walmart???

Rideitout posted 9/17/2019 13:39 PM

My question is, is it really possible to have sex with someone for that long and not care about them. This is the part I am struggling with. I think he is not willing to admit he did in fact have feelings for her. He may love me more (and I use love loosely because if he did he wouldn't have done this), and choose me over her but I highly doubt he has no feelings towards her.

Absolutely, not a question in the world, this is possible (even probable, if my experience with cheating men is to be believed). Rather than speak in hypothetical, while not cheating, I was "that guy" as a young man. Dated a girl on/off for years, hung out, had a lot of sex and I never liked her beyond enjoying the sex that we had together. That's the longest term one for me, but I had plenty of "not really that interested, but, sex is sex, so, why not" experiences. Even so far as to "this is a person I really cannot stand, but seems like she's going to give up sex easily, so, why not".

I'm not saying this to hurt you, hopefully it helps, but IMHO, when a man says "it was just sex", your best course of action is "believe him". The vast majority of sex I've had in my life with women was "just sex" and, in an affair, I can't fathom looking for anything beyond "just sex" (because, frankly, that's the one thing that affairs are good at providing; they SUCK at everything else that people might look for in a relationship, love, stability, long term plans together, even mutual respect).

heartbroken83 posted 9/17/2019 16:54 PM

Rideitout, THANK YOU so much! This helps me so much. I guess women are different, it is almost always about more that sex with us. This helps ease my mind so much you just don't even understand. So again, thank you thank you thank you. Coming from a man it helps a lot

heartbroken83 posted 9/17/2019 16:57 PM

marji, I do not know what an IRL is??? I am trying to take care of myself. I'm not eating very healthly these days because most of the time I feel like throwing up. Just had a co-worker tell me that it looks like I'm losing weight so I guess that isn't good. I need to lose weight but not like this, you know?

I do have kids but mostly teenagers so they want nothing to do with me...lol

heartbroken83 posted 9/17/2019 19:24 PM

Rideitout: I have a question for you...So my WH says that the sex with this W was nothing but sex and revenge. He is trying to tell me that he absolutely hates her but has sex with her to punish her because he knows that she wants more out of it. So they will not talk for a while, then hit each other up, have sex and when she asked for more he's like naw I'm good. I guess she did some dirty shit to him back in the day and he still feels the need to punish her. This sounds totally twisted and I have no clue how to wrap my head around it. Is it really possible to have sex with someone you hate? your last sentence kind of insinuated it but I just wanted to check.

I asked him if that was the case, doesn't he feel the need to punish her for almost ruining our marriage? will he need to get back at her for that? I don't blame her at all, she had no commitment to me. She did not put a ring on my finger and promise to be faithful and love me. He did. I blame him, I just don't get it.

Rideitout posted 9/18/2019 07:50 AM

Is it really possible to have sex with someone you hate?

Sure. I'm not sure I've ever crossed into "hate" for anyone I was sleeping with, but certainly "strongly dislike" and still had regular sex with them.

Sex, for me, except in a handful of instances, really had nothing to do with the other person other than that they were there too. It wasn't about building a relationship or getting closer to the person, it was a way to enjoy sex. For me, sex did not require "context", if the woman was attractive to me, and she was willing to have sex, I was going to have sex with her. Liking her just didn't factor into that particular decision in any meaningful way.

Think of it this way. Do you have a favorite place you like to eat? Do you like the chef? Does it matter at all to you if the chef is a great person, good family man, friendly to small children and pets? If your at all like me, no, it doesn't matter at all, you like ONE thing about him (his ability to cook food) and, unless he's killing kittens in the back for fun, him being a good person really doesn't factor, at all, into your decision to eat there. I know, the analogy is weak, but it's the best I can do before coffee. :) It just didn't matter very much, of course, I'd be happier if I did like the person I was having sex with, but, most of the time I didn't and that was OK too. Sex, by itself, was enough "good" to override anything I might not like about the other person.

It sounds to me like your WH just took it further. And I do wonder if "hate" is the real answer; IMHO, I'd guess it's much closer to "I just didn't care about her at all" than actively hating her and "having sex to punish her". The real answer for me would have been "I don't like what little I know of her, but I had sex because I really enjoy having sex". "Hate f**king" is something that I have no experience with, so I can't really talk to it, but I find it really strange that someone would use "hate" as justification to have an A. I have no difficulty at all with "ambivalence" or even "contempt" for the AP (which seems to be where most of my cheating friends landed, more contempt and "she's an idiot" than "I hate her")..

I asked him if that was the case, doesn't he feel the need to punish her for almost ruining our marriage? will he need to get back at her for that?

You're overthinking it. Who cares? And, as I said before, I find "hate" difficult to believe. "Just a f**k" I find extremely believable, both from seeing others in affairs and my own behavior with women before I was married.

marji posted 9/18/2019 08:18 AM

heartbroken IRL means "in real life." So an IRL support group would be a group you could join regularly; ideally it's a group you actually go to--people share experiences, solutions=give support to one another-if there is no group you can actually attend in person there are groups that meet by phone and/or Skype. But you might find it helpful to have a group such as we are here on SI but more in person.

heartbroken83 posted 9/18/2019 10:03 AM

Thank you both for your feed back.

To make things even worse, My H is a Minister. I do not like the idea of IRL because if I run into someone we know I don't want to deter them from God because my husband stepped out of his position. I hope that makes since. I like talking here because know one knows us.

marji posted 9/18/2019 11:23 AM

There are also on line groups if you decide to try that. The woman that your H is involved with--is she married too?

heartbroken83 posted 9/18/2019 11:25 AM

No she is not. She told me she was engaged after I found out about the affair but after searching I could not find any info on a spouse or boyfriend. I was looking to be able to disclose to him about her affair with my H but could not find any information. My H said she is not with anyone either. So I just dropped it.

outofsorts posted 9/18/2019 12:15 PM

Anyway, in the 3 minutes that I was sitting in that waiting room, it was a scene of Phoebe with some client that she started making out with, and then other people walked in, another client asked why he wasn't getting that kind of service, references to this not being that kind of massage place, and the guy's wife wanted to know where he was, etc etc etc.

ElizabethC - I hate when it sneaks up on you from random places. It's so hard to manage something like that when your guard is down and you're not expecting it. Some of my worst triggers are when I'm feeling fine an actually not thinking of my wh and then something random like that comes out of no where and I'm like can't I even enjoy myself for once??

marji posted 9/18/2019 14:03 PM

good that you thought about that and were planning to do that, heart and good that you have an IC to talk with and help decide what you want to do.

SusanneH posted 10/17/2019 17:05 PM


If anyone reads this, it was suggested to me to post here, so I am; but, I see no one has posted in almost a month, so....anyway,

My WH had an affair with a man...totally emotionless. JUST SEX. They met at the local porn video store that has dirty little rooms in back playing porn & has benches where men can sit and masterbate while watching...or, 2 men can "do their thing"...which, in this case was sucking.
That's all they did. Went in, did it & left.. for two years; and, he didn't even know they guy's last name. They never kissed (he even cringed when I asked) or hugged.

There's so much more to the anonymous part and I posted a long post in ICR under "Spouses with Same Gender AP's" in early Oct.

thanks for reading

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