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Until recently, I hadn't considered that I might be choosing suffering over healing. Before I explain my emerging thoughts, for your collective insights, I feel it important that I clarify something that could easily be misunderstood. I did not choose the pain my wife brought into our marriage. I am not responsible for her choice to cheat and the pain that her poor decision caused both of us. My pain was real, and it was 100% caused by my wife. Her pain was real, and she brought it 100% upon herself.

But what about long-term suffering? Short-term suffering, sure, that is to be expected. But in my case, I’m talking about 3 decades of suffering. I just shake my head in bewilderment that I’ve spent the last 32 years reminiscing, dragging into the current moment, bedroom images and non-understood reasons for the affair.

I agree with what many of you might say: that in the early stages, nearly every betrayed spouse deals with these traumatic events. I’d even go so far as to say, if a betrayed does not go through this stage, they are probably trying to hide a dead, stinking fish. However, at what point should I have taken responsibility for what I was allowing? Was my suffering due to my clinging which was bringing new, unnecessary pain into our lives?

My gurgling thoughts around suffering verses pain is a direct result from some helpful advice I have received from several individuals here. Thoughtful women and men who found their path to healing faster and healthier than I did. I’m not diminishing their pain or struggles just acknowledging they figured a few things out that I failed to recognize.

The advice? Be mindful, accept what was, and focus on living-in-the-now.

"OVERSIMPLIFICATION!" I thought to myself when I read the numerous versions of the same idea that was being graciously offered for my consideration. I’d push back, not because I did not value new thoughts but, I am suspicious, rather because I’d be force to let go of the pain that I saw as keeping me alert and safe. GOD DAMNIT! I WASN’T GOING TO BE BLINDSIGHTED AND MADE A FOOL AGAIN! (That is my stinking, dead fish that needs burying.)

Because of you guys, I have found myself, more than usual, sitting alone in the dark quizzing within the blackness I seek at times like these.

Are the memories that I am shadow boxing today, things of yesterday? Am I being perfectly accurate about those "burned-in-the-mind memories" or has my imagination over the years of replay expanded and enhanced those memories into something far worse? Am I remembering a lie? Is the woman in front of me the same woman that betrayed me? Am I the same man I was before the infidelity? Do I like who my wife is better today than she was then? Do I like myself better post D-day? Is my marriage today more honest, heathier and mutually of greater satisfaction than yesteryear? And the big one. Do I really want the woman and marriage I thought I had, or would I rather have the woman and marriage I have today?

These questions are important for me to weigh against each other because shouldn't how I conduct myself going forward be based on what is real now not what was real then?

Thank you, my new friends, for opening my thoughts to new ways of thinking and processing. It is extraordinarily important for my healing. Yes, how I was going about it did bring about reconciliation, (I see reconciliation as an on going process.) it was falling far short of something even more important – healing. Healing for myself and my wife.

Which brings me to a new, connected thought that is banging around in my elderly brain. Did I confuse reconciliation with healing seeing them as one-in-the-same?

Asterisk

I think you should give yourself some grace. We are only about 12,000 years away from being hunter gatherers. That was the time of humanity when men got to carry around big clubs and yank their wives by their hair back into their caves. We are now civilized…supposedly. I do question whether that’s really true based on the behaviors I’ve seen recently on TV. But if you just go back in history, human beings have been killing, mutilating, lying to, cheating on, other humans for as long as we’ve been writing down our histories. Your very strong, prefrontal cortex tells you to behave yourself. You have another part of your brain that said it’s time to get revenge. They’ve been arguing with each other since you found out you had been cheated on. Because we are now civilized you can’t take revenge into your own hands so you’ve been stewing about it. Acceptance is the last part of the grief cycle. It seems to be that you are nearly there. It’s time to let yourself off the hook. You and your wife have had a profound explosion into the middle of your marriage. She caused it. It might be that you have difficulty actually even thinking about forgiveness, although you might say it out loud. The reason I think you need to let yourself off the hook is because you do not need to forgive her. You just need to move on, accepting what was unacceptable.
I study history and often ponder about Germany after WWI. It was laid waste to and a lot of gloating might have been done by the victors. Into that rage arose Hitler. After WWI we used some newfound ideas and provided a leg up for Japan and Germany. Revenge is usually way worse that the event that caused it.

shouldn't how I conduct myself going forward be based on what is real now not what was real then?

Amen, brother

Godspeed on your search for the truth, wherever that takes you.

Asterisk, I have no words of wisdom to offer.

I wont judge you either.

All I can say is I understand and can relate.

I wish you well.

I’ve spent the last 32 years reminiscing, dragging into the current moment, bedroom images and non-understood reasons for the affair.

I've noticed this tendency among some betrayed husbands that I cannot explain. Maybe you can shed some light.

What stopped you from "holding her feet to the fire?"

[This message edited by Unhinged at 4:01 PM, Saturday, November 1st]

I am one who has also chosen a fair amount of suffering in life, so I can relate. Rumination is a thief of joy, and here I round my fiftieth year and am just now learning to let go of it.

Generally, it certainly doesn’t seem fair for one to punish themselves for another persons choices. Who they are, what they choose and why, those are things that have nothing to do with us.

Yes, even in our closest most intimate relationships.

However, some of us deep analytical thinkers we try and put logic where often there isn’t any.

I think you are asking yourself great questions. Personally many things in my past some to do with my marriage and some nothing to do with my marriage have had me hold back from fully loving. That place of being vulnerable is being held back. (for me being abandoned or rejected- maybe for you the idea you may be fooled again or all along? )

ICertainly, I can be held back by fear of asking these questions to our spouse to reopen it. Figuring out that fear to check ourselves on validity can be helpful. Are you afarid to rock the boat? Are you protecting her from further pain? Is the idea of not ever getting an honest answer, and what happens when your spidey senses tell you that she is holding back something? Even then it may only be perceived to be untrue.

I think in most reconciliation there is a sense of burning down that old marriage and starting again. It sounds like that didn’t happen, and you are trying to maybe think, what if I left the idea of that marriage of yesterday and started again with this woman that has spent the last 3 decades being more of who you hoped or more of show she promised?

It took some different techniques from a therpist, reading, and expanding my faith in order to greatly reduce rumination. If you do not plan to change your marital status, it seems like it would be good for you to try to see what you could do to move forward without these empty feelings nagging you anytime you start to feel happy or peaceful. You very well could be afraid to go back to peace, or maybe never had it and don’t know what it feels like. I am just now feeling it, and sometimes it’s still uncomfortable to me, but I am learning to embrace it and welcome it to stay longer all the time.

Best wishes, sir.

I don't have any wisdom. I think I may be on the same path as you. I'm 11 years out from D-Day and am not fully healed. I, too, see reconciliation as an ongoing process. Every day, every new moment, we have to choose reconciliation. Every time my H does something that annoys me, I think of the idiot and asshole he was and start wondering what I need to do to leave. I have to consciously think myself out of that place.

For the most part, I like my life. It's easy. I don't work. I don't have to do anything. We continue with MC. My H has been very slow in changing his character flaws. He has just recently started making big leaps in his understanding of himself.

He's been trying all this time. He struggles with acknowledging that he is not the person he thought he was. He has been resistant to IC because he's in the military and was afraid it would affect his career. He's retiring this summer. I'm hoping he'll start IC again after that.

All of that to say, I think I can relate to what you're saying. Altho, I don't think I choose suffering. I don't dwell on the past. No ruminating thoughts about his cheating. If I start to feel unhelpful feelings toward him or my life, I'm quite good at thinking myself out of those feelings.

We will never be the same as we were before his cheating.

I suppose I have learned all of us can be as miserable as we want.

I only say that, because I chose misery and suffering as well, for a long time.

My wife’s confession was well over a decade after her A.

That was my decade of pure misery and suffering, before I KNEW what my reality was.

Something had gone off the rails, my wife was cold and distant and we argued all the time, and I had no clue why our M had fallen so far.

Instead of leaving, I chose misery.

Misery and suffering can be familiar enough to count on those feelings and allow for some unhealthy patterns. I knew what my day would be, and it was at least some stability, even if it was miserable.

All I am saying here is, I understand.

I lived it.

And after my wife told me about her A, a new level of pain hit me, and kind of woke me up.

I learned I could choose NOT to suffer. I learned I could process my grief and get to better, instead of bitter.

It took me a few years to rebuild my mindset, but I’ve been there ever since.

I do think you are on your way to processing more of your pain on your way to healing some more.

The thought that comes to me is: is there a question that you refuse to ask? Or a reality that you dread so intensely that you prefer the pain? Like was the thought of a life without your wife so unthinkable that it shut down needed explorations?

These aren’t judgments, they are real questions. I experienced a deep depression in my youth that lasted about five years. I saw in myself that there were realities that I didn’t want to face. When infidelity came calling, I resolved to not repeat that mistake. I count myself very fortunate to have found SI and combine that wisdom with my process. I can say I faced my fears, and three years out I feel normal. I attribute my recovery to that facing of fears, but maybe that is just the story I tell myself.

I had a conversation today with a friend and this one reminds me of that even though the subjects have nothing to do with each other. What I realized is how we are trained from birth to mistrust our own gut feelings and our own rights to say no. No to being unhappy and not knowing why. No to allowing others so much power over our own agendas that we let small, petty remarks and behaviors nibble away at our comfort. And I do think being uncomfortable and not knowing why should be the canary in the mine. If we are in reasonably good health and our loved ones are, if we are not stressed too much from jobs or bills then what is causing it? Because something, or someone, is.
I think the question about you trying hard not to look too hard might be where your discomfort is coming from. There is phantom pain coming from somewhere.

Cooly2here,

You and your wife have had a profound explosion into the middle of your marriage. She caused it. It might be that you have difficulty actually even thinking about forgiveness, although you might say it out loud. The reason I think you need to let yourself off the hook is because you do not need to forgive her. You just need to move on, accepting what was unacceptable.

I believe you are on to something here.

Coming from a Christian background, forgiveness is the kneejerk answer to all life’s wrongs. "Forgive as we were forgiven." Forgiving verses understanding is something I’ve wrestled with for a very long time. Early on, after D-day, my wife asked me to forgive her. I said to her, not in anger but with conviction, she didn’t need my forgiveness, she needed my understand. And my assumption at the time and now, was if I could fully grasp the whys of her decisions then I would not need to forgive. It operates on the supposition that people do things for a reason, rarely because they are just bad or screwed up. Granted, their reasons may be misguided and their decisions unhealthy and hurtful but not because some people just suck more than others!

I have used that formula for most of my life and, with the exception of this event, it has served me well. In my probably screwed up mind, forgiveness by nature says I’m better than you or more moral than you. Plus, often forgiveness is used as a shortcut to avoid conflict resolution because it sidesteps the painful process of self-discovery and self-change. I don’t believe my wife’s choice to cheat happened in a vacuum that has nothing to do with me. I know this statement is unpopular, but popularity is not a sign of truth, just group agreement.

Your statement that I need to move on, accepting what was unacceptable, is an echo of what several people here have suggested to me. I’m beginning to see theirs and yours’s wisdom for my way, though I stand by it as a norm, has only delayed my ability to just let it go! Maybe I need to forget about understanding my wife’s choices and focusing on me and why it is I’ve clung so tenaciously to needing to understand what might be the un-understandable.

You bring up another interesting thought later in the thread and I will address it then.

Thank you,

Asterisk

HouseOfPlane,

Amen, brother
Godspeed on your search for the truth, wherever that takes you.

Thank you and know you are helping me with this search that I have been fumbling my way through.

Asterisk

Dorothy123,

Asterisk, I have no words of wisdom to offer.
I wont judge you either.

Thank you, that is very kind of you to say. I rarely feel judged here. Often it is more that I feel challenged here and that is why I stay in communication with people here at SI. There is far more collective wisdom here than is in my limited brain and I plan to capitalize on it. 😊

Asterisk

Unhinged,

I've noticed this tendency among some betrayed husbands that I cannot explain. Maybe you can shed some light.
What stopped you from "holding her feet to the fire?"

I know you and I have at times have a healthy back and forth. I believe it is due to different world views not because either of us are disagreeable or don't have each other's best interests at heart. I am often not too elegant in my answers to your questions, but I do try to answer them when I understand what you are asking. I this case, I need more detail into what it is you are asking me. What do you mean by "holding her feet to the fire? It sounds as if you are saying I let her slide without consequences. Are you? If so, what are the consequences that I am failing to employ?

I am not being snarky or avoidant. I honestly cannot respond because I am lost as to the question’s meaning.

As always, I appreciate your questions offered for my considerations.

Asterisk

HikingOut,

(for me being abandoned or rejected- maybe for you the idea you may be fooled again or all along? )

That would be a yes, I am becoming pretty clear on my need not to allow myself to be blindsided and made a fool of again has been a backseat driver for far too long.

Are you afarid to rock the boat? Are you protecting her from further pain? Is the idea of not ever getting an honest answer, and what happens when your spidey senses tell you that she is holding back something? Even then it may only be perceived to be untrue.

No, I am not afraid to rock boats. I am a full believer that getting it out in the open is how you steady the boat. I may fail at it sometimes but I am not known for being conflict avoidant. Am I protecting her? Now there is something to that. One thing I protected her from, at my expense, was my anger about the affair. I had never felt that type of anger especially towards the woman I loved so deeply therefor I chose, wisely or unwisely, not to allow it to exit my mouth. I stuffed it, chewed on it and refused it it’s due. Probably a big mistake. As to "spidey senses (I love that word that I don’t think is a real word but should be). Yes, I do believe my wife has not been fully transparent, not as to what she did and with whom she did it but to the whys and, as unhinged stated in a different thread, it is driving me bonkers.

I think in most reconciliation there is a sense of burning down that old marriage and starting again. It sounds like that didn’t happen

No, I think you may be in error here. We did burn everything to the ground and rebuilt a much happier and stronger, wiser love relationship and marriage. That doen’t mean I no longer have sore points that come bubbling up. I, we, were not perfect in the rebuild but pretty damn committed to a new way of relating and loving.

It took some different techniques from a therpist, reading, and expanding my faith in order to greatly reduce rumination.

And on this is where I did a major belly flop. Up to about 6 months ago I had not even known the word "rumination". My wife and I entered into this cavernous journey alone and ill equipped, so we missed some key concepts from day one.

Thank you for your insights and suggestions,

Asterisk

Cocoplus5nuts,

All of that to say, I think I can relate to what you're saying. Altho, I don't think I choose suffering. I don't dwell on the past. No ruminating thoughts about his cheating.

I am sorry you can relate because I do not believe anyone that hasn’t been through this can. You, unlike myself did not "choose suffering which is deeply impressing. More impressive is that you don’t "ruminate" or dwell on the past. How one does that, I haven’t a clue. It seems it takes a strong steal-trap mind to keep rumination at bay. I bow in respect.

We will never be the same as we were before his cheating.

This is the one thing you said that left me a little puzzled. Is never being the same a good thing or a bad thing? Is returning to what was (or thought was) what a betrayed and wayward spouse should aspire to? For my wife and me, we have no desire for "the good old days". I know it often doesn’t sound like it but we are happier now, more than ever, even before D-day.

Asterisk

Oldwounds,

I learned I could choose NOT to suffer. I learned I could process my grief and get to better, instead of bitter.
It took me a few years to rebuild my mindset, but I’ve been there ever since.
I do think you are on your way to processing more of your pain on your way to healing some more.

Bitterness has never been a high risk for me. I enjoy life and people way too much. But I can sure understand there is a strong risk of becoming bitter. As to the rest of what you said above, I didn’t process "all" of my grief well. Most of it I would argue I did, but clearly I came here so late in the game because I knew that "I" was the current problem because I was missing something. And you and many others here have been consistent in assisting me in finding my, hopefully, final pathway through the thicket. Thank you,

Asterisk

Inkhulk,

The thought that comes to me is: is there a question that you refuse to ask? Or a reality that you dread so intensely that you prefer the pain? Like was the thought of a life without your wife so unthinkable that it shut down needed explorations?

Those are thoughtful and fair questions. As to if there is an unasked question, I just can’t imagine what that might be. I know there are unanswered questions I have questioned but I hadn’t given deep thought that intuitively, I might be recognizing that I might have missed one or more.

Interesting, time for some quiet reflections.

I don’t avoid questions or any activity due to possible pain. I’ve been in high risk sports my entire adult life where facing pain is part and parcel to reaching a desired outcome. However, your follow-up thought of the possibility of the unthinkable thought of living life without my wife shutting down needed explorations (I’m guessing divorce being the prime one) you have struck the nail straight on. In the days, weeks and months after D-day I couldn’t see how we’d survive her infidelity. But I never gave thought to divorcing her, which did put me in a bind. My personal beliefs supported by my religious beliefs just did not allow that as an option. I have come to understand that I was in error and that whether I chose it or not, it should have been made very clear, in my head 1st, then to my wife that divorce was a legitimate option and a better than 50% chance I was going to go through with it. Not as a threat but as a fact of the situation that we both should have been preparing for. I did later come to the right conclusion and began to approach life with this possible outcome.

Thank you Inkhulk,

Cooley2here,

I think the question about you trying hard not to look too hard might be where your discomfort is coming from. There is phantom pain coming from somewhere.

I’ve been fussing over how to answer this question honestly. Details are important if you have turned to people for help. And yet, privacy is equally important. Plus, too much detail can derail the real point of an issue. With all that said, yes, something new hit me right where it hurt and spooked my comfortable life.

In June of this year, I found myself sitting in the dark, on an early A.M. morning running through my mind what had transpired the day before. I am in very good health for a man of 72. No prescription, no chronic health issues, not overweight. I do have old, sport injuries causing me some painful difficulties, but they are not life-threating and a price I was then and now, willing to pay. Anyway, so here I am, in the dark, trying to make sense of what I was forced to sit and endure the day before. My mind was still in a blurred state, shock setting in. I had an oncologist telling me that I might have to have one or both of my testicles removed. But don’t worry, we have many test to run and there might be another way to address my current situation. Not comforting.

So, I was sitting there, feeling rather sorry for myself thinking about stuff, processing the potential loss and that thinking led me to the only event in my life that caused me this much confusion, pain and anger. I imagine you can guess, that was my wife’s affair. By daybreak, I was pissed. I mean really pissed. Something I just didn’t allow after D-day because I saw no benefit and lots of risk if I shared the depth of my anger.

So, here I friggen am unfairly associating two different issues. I knew then, as I do now, that it was displaced anger dredging up things I thought my wife and I put to bed decades ago.

So, instead of shifting that anger towards my wife, knowing it completely unjustified at this stage in our relationship, I turned to you guys. I’m exposing a side of me I just hate.

As a side note, I’m fine, all parts are being monitored regularly but are still around. But the anger fueled by confusion, has been very resistant to diffusion.

Asterisk

...lots of risk if I shared the depth of my anger.

Why? What was the risk?