SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey all,

If you want to know my story, please read my previous posts, as a WS ive been really trying to do whatever my partner needs, i have read how to help your spouse heal from an affair, done alot of self work and counselling but there are some road blocks im having where im lost on how to respond to help not damage, betrayed spouses super welcome cause i think itd be really helpful to have your advice!

1. How do I respond in the right way to comments alluding to leaving me 'in the end of all this' when it seems like were moving forward the day before, it makes me feel used cause we also work together and have our own business which i know isnt fair for me to wallow in my feelings but i dont know how to respond to for want of a better way to say it, future projections of knowing hes going to leave me 'in the end' if that makes sense, i have responded with love saying i dont want you to leave me, i love you and id never hurt you again but it seems to esculate the situation anyway cause he says i only care about myself and if i just say okay, he also esculates any tips on what to say would be helpful!

2. Every week or two he will decide he wants me to go to my sisters and leave our house which then i leave and stay at my sisters for a couple days and then he asks me back for a week and we repeat, do i keep leaving when he wants, is this helpful? because whenever i get to my sisters we go backwards, he will drop me off and we seem to be in a good place then hell send me texts saying he doesnt want me etc,

3. When he insults me, tells me im just a hoe and he could go get someone else whod never hurt him in the first place, tells me im an embarrassment, tells me id fuck anyone who gives me attention so he cant trust me, etc how do i respond to these insults? if i cant defend but they are not true.. i get the anger/rage but im confused how to respond

4. Sometimes he will let me touch him, other times he will move my hand away and get angry, how do i deal with this right? do i stop touching him alltogether? or keep trying knowing theres a chance he may or may not respond positively?

5. He tells me our relationship is over, he is not mine and that ive ruined my own life 'right now' but then spends time with me, sleeps with me, mentions future things as if we are still going to be together and its very confusing to know what is going on

6. He tells me he cant be happy around me and he never can love or look at me the same again, is this something we can get through? all i have replied is well id like the chance to change that and make you happy and get through this to which he says i shouldve thought about that before which is true

If a betrayed or even a WW has some advice id really love to hear if firstly these things are normal and secondly how i should be responding in the best way so i can learn, im trying to not get emotional cause it normally makes it worse but ill admit its hard when i dont want to lose him and he is so all over the place that i dont know where were at.

[This message edited by dc1997112 at 11:26 PM, Wednesday, February 26th]

I'll chime in again, but this post is very similar to one you posted the other day and my reply will be similar.

Be patient. The road to recovery is up and down, rocky, and in consistent. Accept that. Accept that your marriage may not make it. Accept that you created all of this uncertainty and you're going to have to live in uncertainty for quite sometime. This is a marathon and not a sprint. Ask yourself if your truly cut out for the work it's going to take. Saying you'll do whatever it takes is vastly different than doing whatever it takes. Grab a big picture mindset and focus on that - give yourself sometime and look for small steps in growth measured in months not days.

Work on consistently doing the right thing. Treating him with respect, being kind, making bids for connection, and being empathetic towards his pain.

His words are hurtful but try to see them through his lens. Right now he feels hurt and extremely unsafe in your relationship. And it sounds like he's in a push pull dynamic because there is no trust. He pulls you for safety and he pushes you away for safety. He probably doesn't really want to push you away or he would just leave you. So he pushes you away to see if you'll come back. If you can be consistent. This probably all happening at a subconscious level. Right now his subconscious doesn't truly trust that your their for him. And to some extent he's unloading some anger - all of this is normal.

Continue doing the right thing and assuring him that you'll be there for him. If you touch him and he pushes you away - be thoughtful in your response e.g., I want to connect with you and I sad that you're not ready for that today, but I understand and respect that today. But I want you to know I'm not giving up and will keep trying.

In most likelihood he wants you to keep touching him. He wants you to keep trying. He wants to see consistency from you. He wants to truly trust that you love him.

If you stay consistent and measure progress from a big picture mindset, I bet you will see the push pull cycle begin to erode.

Ask yourself some real questions. What is it going to take for me to be more patient? Am I truly committed to doing whatever it takes? And what do I need to do to eliminate defensiveness. Defensiveness will only further activate his push cycle and genuine commitment to being consistent and understanding his pain will activate his pull cycle.

Accept that there are no magic words to bring about a quick fix to this.

What work have you done to figure out your why? Why did you cheat on someone you can't imagine living without? Doing that will also create safety for him.

I would stay calm. He is traumatized. For most of these things I would validate his feelings. "I understand why you feel this way. I am going to do everything I can to work on myself because I do not want to be this person. I am so sorry I have done this and how much I have hurt you"

I would not stop touching him. I would just respect him when he doesn’t want it.

The name calling - I probably would at that time way "I want to be here to discuss this with you, but I do not think the name calling is helpful. Maybe you need some space right now and we can reconvene at a calmer time" this is going to piss him off but I would be consistent about that. It’s normal for him to feel extremely angry but it doesn’t mean that if his language gets too abusive that you have to take it.

Are you in therapy? What are you doing to figure out your issues? Honestly that’s where your focus should be.

As for moving back and forth from your sisters, I am not sure. This is so early in the process and it’s normal for him to oscillate in what he wants.

I would agree with Fit. There is no quick fix. Infidelity takes years to recover from and the first 6-12 months is pretty rough. The ba is grieving, the ws does not yet have the coping skills or answers to all the questions yet. This is going to be a long journey.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:03 PM, Thursday, February 27th]

If you consult the healing library, there are some articles there you may find helpful. The link is on the left. I am sure that it’s been recommended that you read "how to help your spouse heal from your affair" by Linda McDonald.

You need to understand he is in fight or flight. Some people who are cheated on even develop PTSD. In other words what you see as erratic behavior is his response to extreme emotional pain. At times your presence soothe him, other times it’s like sitting with someone who shot you in the chest. Infidelity brutalizes trust, pulls the carpet from under any sense of security, wounds one’s sense of identity, and more.

What you are describing is very normal behavior for someone who has been cheated on. After all, how can you love him today if you didn’t enough a month ago enough not to cheat on him? It’s going to take a long converted effort for him to heal and until you both take some focus to heal there will be no healing of the relationship.

However, he is still showing up and trying and as long as you are both doing it, there is hope. But you need to realize when he is having good moments with you, it’s good to enjoy them and bond but don’t for a minute think it’s getting back to normal. That normal is gone for the foreseeable future.

The name calling - I probably would at that time way "I want to be here to discuss this with you, but I do not think the name calling is helpful. Maybe you need some space right now and we can reconvene at a calmer time" this is going to piss him off but I would be consistent about that. It’s normal for him to feel extremely angry but it doesn’t mean that if his language gets too abusive that you have to take it.

I agree with this. You need to be open to receiving his anger, but not his abuse. When he starts with the ugliness, I'd say something like h/o suggested. Or frame it as you're learning how to share thoughts and feelings in a healthy way, and it's not healthy to allow yourself to be talked to that way, which is the truth. Ask your IC for advice about that.

I don’t have all the answers but I do want to ask you a serious question. When you were cheating on him, how many times did you insult, disrespect, gaslight him? I am willing to bet you treated him awful while cheating on him. Most do.

You don’t have to take it, you can always leave. But if you want any chance of this working you have to first own how awful you treated your partner, and you have to admit and accept some really ugly things about yourself.

No, you don’t deserve to be treated like crap and called names forever, and I don’t think it’s ever right to insult the person you love. But post infidelity, post lying, insulting, gaslighting the person who you supposedly love above all others…you’re going to have to accept this.
You are not special, and the one thing you had that was special, you gave away.

A thread in the Wayward forum that does NOT have a Wayward-only marking does not invalidate the rules and request stated at the gateway of this forum. Posters are reminded to respect the following:

A forum for all Former WS's who have ended or trying to end their affairs and are striving to reconcile. BS's are not to start threads asking questions of the WS's. Discussions about this forum, participating members, or topics contained are prohibited outside of this forum. Being disrespectful to this forum, members, or this description will result in your losing access without warning.

You are not special, and the one thing you had that was special, you gave away.

Ouch. I know what this poster has been through, and I just want to say that this perspective while harsh is a way of expressing his pain over the loss of an aspect he (and many bs here) feels
Deeply hurt him. That is something to consider when leaving the stop sign off of you are not yet ready for some of that pain to come out in some folks feedback.

I hope you know you have many special things to offer other than sex and can keep posting without taking that too personally. You are divinely loved and inherently worthy and by reflecting on the good things you have to offer you can actually find the path towards healing.

Healing truly requires gratitude and finding a way to love oneself so that you can love others. Respecting oneself so you can respect others.

I hope you are still around and still posting.

DC,

I made a personal attack on you and that was wrong. You came here for answers, and you should feel able to post without being attacked personally. I am sorry, and truly I hope you read this and continue to participate.

What an incredible post, HellIsNotHalfFull, thank you. May you who offer peace, find peace for yourself.

You are very brave for posting so many details of your situation and taking the step to ask for advice again!

I responded to your last post with some advice and proactive steps that I took with my BH. Have you had the time to look over any of the advice you were given on your last post? I saw a lot of very solid responses that you should consider!

It’s unfortunately just going to take time. My therapist always refers to my affair/recovery process as a Roller Coaster- some days we are wayyy up high and having a great time and some days we are very low and just trying to hang on a little bit longer. The question she asked me was am I willing to get on the ride with my husband until he’s ready to get off, no matter how long the ride may last. My answer was, yes absolutely!! But not everyone is strong enough to make that choice, so you really need to decide if you are in it for the long run and if you are strong enough to support your husband during his recovery.

Anytime I find myself annoyed that my spouse is angry at me or having a hard day I put myself in his shoes and respond how I’d want him to treat me. I spent a solid 3-4 months gaslighting him, lying to him, neglecting his needs, and prioritizing my AP, friends, and drugs/alcohol over him. So it’s kind of obvious that he isn’t always going to want to talk to me or touch me. He deserves a better (and safe) version of me and when he allows it we will talk about our issues and have intimate moments together (outside of just sex). His desire to touch you to be intimate will fluctuate, but don’t stop putting in the effort. Let him know you are ready to do those things if he will allow it. Sometimes those moments can just be difficult for him due to replaying scenarios of your affair in his head.

To lighten the mood sometimes I’ll tell my husband "you’re not mad at current me, you’re mad at me from 6 months ago. She was an evil bitch and we won't ever have to worry about her again lol". Something else that we do is just to make fun of my AP together. It always lightens the mood and honestly feels good to just vent to each other about our mutual dislike for AP. However, we are very humorous individuals and find comfort in joking about our trauma, not everyone is like this! I wouldn’t recommend cracking jokes with your spouse if you think he’d respond poorly to it. If that’s not your style I do feel like allowing him to vent is always good. There have been plenty of times where I just sit quietly and let my husband tell me all the things that are making him angry/upset.

About the name calling or insults:
I wouldn’t let it get to you. He’s reacting out of a place of hurt and frustration. I wouldn’t allow any physical abuse to occur, so please don’t think I’m justifying that behavior. Something I found helpful in those moments is to simply address that my husband is upset, tell him we aren’t having a productive conversation by arguing or name calling, and tell him we can discuss things later in the day once we are both in a better headspace. This has happened countless times, especially the first month or two after DDay. His emotions will be all over the place, but you have got to stay patient.

In regard to you leaving the house: When this happens is he asking you for space to think? Or is he upset with you and forcing you to leave your home for days at a time?

Either way, I personally think extending nights apart after DDay can be very damaging. We are currently 5 months since DDay and just spent our first night away from each other last week, due to my husband going on a guys trip. Outside of that we haven’t had any extended time apart. We both agreed early on that that will only cause us both anxiety about what the other is doing while away. I think if I was to be gone a week my husband would spiral and start to question what I was doing, who I was with, ect. When my spouse wants "space" from me he sleeps in our extra bedroom. When I want "space" to think I go on a car ride and listen to music. I literally will just make laps around our town and scream in my car until I feel level headed enough to speak to my husband calmly and not deflect or defend my actions. It takes so serious self control to not be defensive, I have had to drop any ego I had about myself relatively quickly.

Things seem hard now but I promise if you put in the work every day will get a tiny bit easier.

1. How do I respond in the right way to comments alluding to leaving me 'in the end of all this'…. Over time my husband started to consistently say he would completely understand me leaving and that if I did he would understand and support me but he would be devastated and he prayed I would give him a chance and how grateful he was that I was giving it a chance. That made me feel he was concerned with my wellbeing and healing. Some people call this "letting go of the outcome" and we both found that to be a good mindset.

2. Eventually this will be exhausting but if it’s what he needs not sure it is a big problem. Seems like a minor inconvenience relative to what he is being put through (I’m sorry if that sounds harsh. It is not meant to be).

3. When he says you would have sex with anyone who gives attention I would think you would say "yes" that is who I have been recently. I am not proud of that person and I intend to never be that person again. Any other response implies the AP was "special" in some way which is even more insulting. If it is true that the AP was "special" you should probably be with the AP.

4. Normal push pull. I would defer to the men but I would think touching is good. He can always say no. I’m assuming you aren’t forcing it.

5. Ambivalence, totally normal. The book "The Betrayal Bind" is very good on this topic.

6. He is talking like he "knows". But, really no one knows at this stage. He is just voicing his pain which also seems normal.

I am so sorry you are going through all of this. I am sure it was not what you intended. He needs you to realize that you SHOULD have known how deeply it would hurt him. His healing should be 100% the priority right now. His using abusive language like name calling is not going to help him to heal. He may not be able to hear that from you but I would assume a counselor or virtually anyone would tell him that. I only name called a couple times to his face. But i have name called him in my head about a billion times. Things I probably couldn’t put in print. I’m sure it stings. It is a manifestation of his pain. If it lasts for a short while thats reasonable. But gently taking space when he does that might become necessary. You shouldn’t allow him to verbally abuse you because it will ultimately cause more harm for both of you.

Hi OP, thank you for posting here, this is my take:

1. I try to look back over other posts of the thread-starter to gain context. So I searched and read your other posts on here. NOT THAT THIS JUSTIFIES YOUR AFFAIR BECAUSE IT DOES NOT, but from what you have posted, your relationship with your BH sounded dysfunctional I must say, abusive actually. Ending it for that reason, certainly would have been the healthy mature self-respecting decision, in contrast having an affair is extremely destructive. Keep in mind however, that the abuse in your relationship before the affair, is going to rear its head again. So attempting R may not even be the right decision for you.

2. I'm now speaking from the more general sense of someone coming to sense with being betrayed as your BH seems to be doing now. Right now your BH is extremely confused and going through a swirl of emotions. And...from his vantage point nothing makes sense here. You are right now running around like a scalded cat to try to help your BH, but why....wouldn't it just have been much easier to not cheat on him in the first place? Your BH wants his world back and that includes you but he is furious at you for destroying that. He on the one hand needs space from you but on the other hand needs you to fight for him too. He is furious at himself for being so broken up in front of you and you seeing him this way, but he is just as angry at you for even putting him in this position in the first place.

My take anyway, I hope this helps....

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:32 AM, Friday, March 7th]

To lighten the mood sometimes I’ll tell my husband "you’re not mad at current me, you’re mad at me from 6 months ago. She was an evil bitch and we won't ever have to worry about her again lol". Something else that we do is just to make fun of my AP together. It always lightens the mood and honestly feels good to just vent to each other about our mutual dislike for AP. However, we are very humorous individuals and find comfort in joking about our trauma, not everyone is like this! I wouldn’t recommend cracking jokes with your spouse if you think he’d respond poorly to it

Karma, I’m glad you qualified this as it might not work for everyone. If my EX would have been joking about the affair, or attached an "lol" to anything about it at 6 months she would have had her suitcase packed that night. You are lucky that your BS has the ability to laugh at this, but it’s probably not great advice for any new WS dealing with what the OP DC has which is still a BS who is angry and still in immense pain

Hi there. BS here. One who has survived a LTA w/several DDays [same LTAP]

I'm going to be succinct but w/not swing 2x4s OK? I hope you keep reading.

You shot him full of holes and you can't get angry at him for bleeding. Nor can you tell him how to bleed.

1. How do I respond in the right way to comments alluding to leaving me 'in the end of all this' when it seems like were moving forward the day before, it makes me feel used cause we also work together and have our own business which i know isnt fair for me to wallow in my feelings but i dont know how to respond to for want of a better way to say it, future projections of knowing hes going to leave me 'in the end' if that makes sense, i have responded with love saying i dont want you to leave me, i love you and id never hurt you again but it seems to esculate the situation anyway cause he says i only care about myself and if i just say okay, he also esculates any tips on what to say would be helpful!

You remain calm, reassure your BS that you love them and your relationship. Even if they ultimately choose to leave, you will always have love and respect for them. Even if your BS is yelling, screaming and cursing - remain calm, cool and collected.

2. Every week or two he will decide he wants me to go to my sisters and leave our house which then i leave and stay at my sisters for a couple days and then he asks me back for a week and we repeat, do i keep leaving when he wants, is this helpful? because whenever i get to my sisters we go backwards, he will drop me off and we seem to be in a good place then hell send me texts saying he doesnt want me etc,

Please understand, his roller coaster of emotions is a BITCH! The hard truth is he doesn't know what he wants because what he really wants is this not to have happened. IMHO - give space when asked - give hugs when asked.

3. When he insults me, tells me im just a hoe and he could go get someone else whod never hurt him in the first place, tells me im an embarrassment, tells me id fuck anyone who gives me attention so he cant trust me, etc how do i respond to these insults? if i cant defend but they are not true.. i get the anger/rage but im confused how to respond

Remain calm, cool and collected, apologize for the pain you caused and reassure of your love. There is a delicate balance. He has a right to vent and spew. From a BS perspective - you should take it [as after all - you caused it]. However, if it crosses over to abuse, that is different. Short of that - and many may disagree - remain calm and let him spew. Again - abuse is never acceptable. But you did put you both in this position. You can't just ask him or expect him to STFU and pretend it never happened.

4. Sometimes he will let me touch him, other times he will move my hand away and get angry, how do i deal with this right? do i stop touching him alltogether? or keep trying knowing theres a chance he may or may not respond positively?

It a mindfuck to him too. Take and follow his lead. With me - the HB bug hit hard (pun not intended) but after I made sure it was gOOd for me, I'd weep silently for a long while. If he's feeling it - go with it. If he's not - be understanding. If he changes course mid stream - respect it.

5. He tells me our relationship is over, he is not mine and that ive ruined my own life 'right now' but then spends time with me, sleeps with me, mentions future things as if we are still going to be together and its very confusing to know what is going on

He is on a horrible roller coaster. One that you put him on without his knowledge or consent. Gently - this is to be expected.

Your relationship is over - if it can be rebuilt remains to be seen. Proven behavior over time. They say it takes 3 - 5 years from infidelity. I can personally attest to closer to 5 years. And there is still scar tissue.

6. He tells me he cant be happy around me and he never can love or look at me the same again, is this something we can get through? all i have replied is well id like the chance to change that and make you happy and get through this to which he says i shouldve thought about that before which is true

Maybe, maybe not. He will never look at you the same again. He will also never look at himself the same again. What you two rebuild [independently and together] will take a lot of time, guts and hard work.
All you can do is remain calm, tell him you love him, tell him you are sorry you hurt him. Proven behavior over time.

im trying to not get emotional cause it normally makes it worse but ill admit its hard when i dont want to lose him and he is so all over the place that i dont know where were at.

Your remaining calm, cool and collected is key here. I get you are emotional - I hope you are working with a good IC - that's a great place for you to let your emotions loose.

There is an article in the Healing Library - What Every WS Should Know [or something like that]. Find it, book mark/print it and read daily. It will be an amazing resource for you.

I guess I'll throw my .02 in here. I'm a BH, my wife cheated on me with a friend. It's been several years post DDay on April 1st. That's right, I found out on April Fools day. Kind of a mind fuck with that one. Anyway, I don't believe my wife and I are going to make it. She simply is rug sweeping and doesn't want to do the work. What I've recently learned in IC for myself, is that my entire life, I've wanted a relationship where we can both be vulnerable and share our feelings. She can't do that, and never has. I don't believe she has it in her. She's never thanked me for giving her another chance. She never wants to talk about it. For me, I wish she would show me some fight to keep me. I wish she would show me she's willing to work on herself. I wish she could really be vulnerable with me and share what she's feeling, how she feels about what she's done to me, that she understands "why" she did it, "why" she allowed it to happen. I wish she could express her regret for ever letting it happen and how it has affected me. Just telling me those things, and not just one and done, would make the world of difference. It would express to me how her hurting me has hurt her, because by not putting in the work, it really makes me feel that she doesn't regret it, and that, is a horrible feeling. This is the only way I could truly tell you what you might do to help him. And please, don't ever get angry with him for reacting to something you caused. It WILL make it worse. Trust me.
Good Luck. While I detest infidelity, I can respect an individual who is willing to put in the work to fix what they fucked up.

Copyingmybest ....just read the basics of your situation. So sorry friend. One question I might have missed. Did you ever wind up telling APs spouse? I sure hope so...or he may have continued to pray on married women. Never to late to shine light and let truth so it's cleaning work.

Dc1997112...be patient and kind. Empathy. Amend. A heart needs tender care to heal. When he is nasty, tell him that hurts you. And in same sentence, you want to remove the hurt you caused him.

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 3:00 AM, Monday, March 10th]