SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi all,

It has been a while. I am still here. Feeling a lot better in myself. Still married but working on being more independent. I just wanted some advice on how to deal with arguments and not letting it to descend into you cheated on me. I am trying not to mention it much but in arguments it comes out of me. In other ways he is helping a lot more with the kids. Like for instance, we were having an argument over money. My husband is a high earner but we have a lot of expenses as we live in an expensive area. I work part time as we have young children.

My husband has a tendency to lash out verbally but I have recently learnt he doesn’t always mean what he says. So for instance, we had an unexpected big bill for our family car as it had broken down. I was trying to get the cheapest price to get it repaired but he was annoyed when I asked him for money and told me, that I didn’t need access to a car and we should get rid of it and just rely on one car which would be his. The area we live in has terrible public transport so it would leave me quite isolated. He said this in an angry tone in front of my son which stressed him out. Anyway I got annoyed, spent all day looking for cheaper alternatives and paid for it myself but means I have no more money left for the month. I got really annoyed and we descended into an argument. When the kids were in the room my husband was saying that I had a great life and most women would kill to have a high earning husband, not have to work full time etc. I said ‘ yeah most women would kill to have a lying cheating husband and I wanted a divorce as I needed a car’. He became very upset and angry.

I hated myself afterwards as the kids were playing in a corner. Anyway my husband did give me the money and deep down I knew he didn’t mean what he says and he is stressed being the breadwinner. So it often comes out in saying things I know he doesn’t mean as the other car wouldn’t have fit all the kids in. but I react and respond to them and the bring up the affair. He says get over it or leave. I want to do just that but in the mean time to make the environment nicer for the children how do I stop mentioning the A when we argue. What helped?

Lemonpie,
I have been learning in IC that I often, without really realizing it, that I take jabs at my wife. The other day we were talking about the affair, needs, and her minimalistic approach to recovery and she went into the whole, "I’m shit, I’m just an evil person, I’m a cheater" routine. In my frustration, I responded with, "sounds like someone needs a pity party". I should not have said that, nothing productive was going to come from me saying that to her. From my side, I need to understand that she is still reeling from shame, but she’s too bullheaded to seek help. I need to learn to be better than who I have been in the past. I don’t want to be reactionary, just open and honest. I get your husband thinks you don’t need a car, but by not having the car, it makes you dependent on him. Having a car for yourself gives you personal freedom to go where you want/need without having to rely on him. For me, this need of freedom is more apparent now after the affair than it was pre affair. Our wayward partners have forced us to become less dependent on them and more depended on ourselves. I don’t know if this helps you or not, but hopefully it sparks some internal thinking in you to maybe open up some new thinking points.

Coping my best- yes this exactly I make mean comments and he is so full of shame he lashes out at me. I have also got frustrated at him feeling sorry for himseLF. He has moved offices away from the AP and he is really struggling. In the past he has got annoyed with me because he feels it is my fault he has had to move. When I say it is his own fault he gets really annoyed sometimes and other times takes it. I guess he is only human and it is hard to feel shame all the time I also have not been supportive at all and don’t listen to him moan about it. He will often say to me no one loves me, and has sometimes blamed me sometimes not so I react very defensively even when he is not.

My husband will also often blame both of us for the children and their emotional reactions. Yes we have had big arguments and I haven’t always regulated myself but he never says I have caused them damage it is always we. I think this is also to do with his shame.

In a day to day basis I feel so much better in myself. I don’t think about the A as much but when he is critical of me or I feel he is acting in the old ways not helping being selfish I react badly.

I think you are right I need to learn ways of managing myself.

Lemonpie

This is going to sound harsh, but I have gone through your older posts and the advice offered there. I think that if we keep in mind your husband left you to live with OW for a period, came back but is still working with the OW, very few outside the closest family know of the affair (including his coworkers), your husbands reluctance to seek any help or IC, his reluctance to do any work for R, his insistence that you get over it...
I don’t see much hope.

What got me in THIS post is your comment about the FAMILY car. FAMILY as in the unit of two spouses and the dependents. The comment about needing to ask him for HIS money to pay for the repair of the FAMILY car.
OK – so true families discuss finances. You might have to prioritize emergency outlays. Like... maybe he let’s you have HIS vehicle so you can drive the kids to sports or maybe he does the grocery-shopping while you tide out a month to save money for repairs. But this sounds more like he had to dig into HIS pocket to fix YOUR family car. Not THE family car, not my-wife-and-mine family car.
You are in Europe, and in most European countries marriage makes you a financial unity. It’s YOUR money even if paid to HIS account for HIS work.
Put it this way: If you divorced and he got 50% custody – would he be able to do his job during a 7-hour gap between getting the kids to school and being back home when that’s over? Would he be earing the same money? Would he have to use HIS money to pay for childcare or some form of kid-storage?

Friend – There is NO WAY that YOU ALONE can reconcile a marriage.

Frankly – your options IMHO are to accept what he’s offering and try to find happiness in that world of misery OR to be firmer in your demands on change.

Why do you believe he doesn't mean what he says? Because he says so? He's an adult. Whether he means it or not, isn't the issue. It's that he says them at all. Adults are responsible for their words and actions. He is extremely verbally and emotionally abusive. He treats you terribly. I know your story. I know he calls you a "c" when he's mad.

As long as you accept that he "doesn't mean it" when he is abusive, it will only get worse.

You feel bad for speaking the truth in front of the kids. You do need to be more mindful, and stop doing that in front of them.

I notice you gloss right over the reason you said what you said. He cheated. He's abusive. And he is saying..and he believes..you should be grateful for him,because other women would be. Coming from a cheater, that's a threat. He's telling you if you don't worship him he will find a woman who will.

You want to learn to stop saying these things in front of the kids. And that's great. But he's not going to stop. He's going to continue to damage the kids.

Your kids heard you. But they also hear him. If you have a daughter, she is learning that it's normal to be spoken to in an abusive manner. She will seek that out. And you are showing her its ok, because he "didn't mean it." He's teaching his son how to treat women. Your son will think its normal to be mean to the woman you say you love.

I am trying not to mention it much

Rugsweeping never works. The bs stuffs it down, and it affects them for the rest of their life. And the ws remains a ws.

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:37 AM, Tuesday, April 9th]

Many bs contribute their WS's actions to shame. Not all ws feel shame. But a bs needs to believe they do.

Nothing about his actions,or words, says he is ashamed. He is angry. Cruel. Abusive. Controlling. Defensive. Resentful. He throws pity parties. He is not ashamed. He's pissed that he has to deal with the consequences of his actions,and he wants you to stfu about it.

If he felt shame,he wouldn't be treating you so terribly. He would be treating you like the prize you are,and grateful for a chance at reconciliation.

most women would kill to have a high earning husband, not have to work full time etc.

He opened himself up to it by changing the argument from "You need money for our car" to "You are ungrateful for your cheating but high earning husband."

HIS money? That reeks of power games in the relationship.

OP, you are getting some good advice from seasoned members. I hope you have ears to hear...

He says get over it or leave.

I don't need to know anything else but this to know that he's not a good candidate for R.

Feeling a lot better in myself. Still married but working on being more independent.

Keep working. You deserve better than this.

Thank you for all your responses. I feel it is helpful for me to write this down as normally in the past the blame gets put back on me. So he was trying to say yesterday that I was completely to blame, that I act like a child and that I am damaging the kids. I get some of my behaviour was not good, but he never really takes ownership. Like when I said about the divorce thing in reactionary anger, he turned to the kids who I wasn’t sure had heard as I am softly spoken, did you hear mum said she is divorcing me. So it was both of us.

@bigger- a lot of people do know about the affair, so he feels a lot of shame about it as I did not deal with the discovery very well and did not contain my emotions at all and told loads of people stupidly as I thought it was all over particularly when I found out he was staying with her after I kicked him out. I never said anything to his work colleagues but he thinks they know and that is why the move to the new office has been so stressful.

Ok. So he is going out of his way to traumatize the kids. This,on top of leaving the home,to live with another woman. So they already have abandonment issues.

He blames you. He thinks you should be grateful because he makes money.

What are you waiting on? He's not going to change.

You need to love your kids, and yourself, more than you love him. They are in an extremely toxic, abusive environment. He's not going to change. YOU have to stop tolerating this abuse of the kids. Emotional abuse is every bit as harmful as physical abuse.

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:55 PM, Tuesday, April 9th]

Have you seen an attorney to understand what your options are?

He is abusing you,in all ways possible. He is traumatizing his children. He is an awful person. He is doing nothing to fix it. You are showing your kids what relationships are and whether it's boys or girls you are giving them a terrible example of what a M should be.

Please please please consider other options. He is not a good father spouse or partner. Shame or not he is unwilling to do the work or change.

I agree with the above. This isn’t shame, he is abusive and selfish. The reason you bring up the affair is because he is still wayward. You are expecting yourself to put something behind you that you are still actively dealing with.

Thank you all,

Just to clarify he stayed with the ap for about two weeks but continued to see her for about a month that I know off and phone records showed me that he was talking to her regularly for another month after that. He lied telling me he was staying in a hotel but then it emerged he was staying with her. When the truth came out that he was staying with her he said it was because I turned everyone against him and he had no where else to go. I stupidly told his family and they took my side but none of his friends so he could have stayed with them.

Anyway, thank you all. It is hard for me to see that he is not a nice person as he can be really nice. I notice we go through these verbal anger lashes against me. So for instance recently, I can be forgetful and terrible with details and I double booked us we were supposed to be having a night out and I also had double booked a night out with friends. He got angry and said I was always going out recently neglecting my chores and being selfish which wasn’t even true etc. I was inThe process of cancelling my night out when suddenly he works out ways so I could do both. So that is when I say that he sometimes says what he doesn’t mean. I got very angry about this but. Then other times he can be so nice and so helpful and supportive and so I forget the other times, he also shifts a lot of blame onto me saying I am not very good at regulating myself I know my difficulties with attention can also be difficult

I have been with a lawyer I initially when I found out. I was very close to leaving and did but I think I just felt so overwhelmed with a baby and he seemed so apologetic and really willing to try everything.

Memory loss is normal. I really struggled with forgetting things. I found that really hard as I rely on my memory at work. It’s finally coming back almost two years later.

Sorry lemon but he’s not remorseful. Angry, abusive and nasty but not remorseful or even ashamed.

You told people because he had moved in with another woman!!! Normally that is something people celebrate - they are overjoyed. They tell people. Instead he wanted to test drive her and then have the audacity to blame you for his poor choices. He did have somewhere to go. A hotel. A house share. His car. He said he was in a hotel so there must be hotels close by. But he is using his choices as another stick to beat you with.

Even without the infidelity is this a man you want to share your life with?

From the way you talk about yourself, he has been beating you down, emotionally and verbally, for a very long time. Everything is your fault.

You are an abused woman. Your kids are being abused.

From the way you talk about yourself, he has been beating you down, emotionally and verbally, for a very long time. Everything is your fault.

You are an abused woman. Your kids are being abused.

100% agree. Have you ever seen Muriel's Wedding? The way you talk about yourself, and the way you say your H treats you, reminds me of Muriel's mother.

Your husband is a "high earner", but he had "nowhere else to go" when he left because you told everyone the truth about him? He couldn't pay for a hotel?

It is hard for me to see that he is not a nice person as he can be really nice.

That's how abusers operate. They abuse you, then buy you flowers to keep you hooked on hope that they'll change. Hopium will give you a false high. It won't last, and it can really hurt you in the long run.

Have you read up on how abusers behave? If not please do some research. You will soon see yourself and him in the dynamics that is your current situation. The cycle of anger love bombing lather rinse repeat.
You are definitely being abused financially. You are being abused emotionally and manipulated. Your kids are seeing this. If you don't stop the abuse, this will continue to escalate. Your kids are watching.
You want your kids to be in this situation when they grow up?

I am going to thread jack for copingmybest and all of you. My husband has tried this in the past. The poor little me routine. His was "I am worthless". "I don’t know anything". And on and on. I finally realized this is manipulation. So I agreed with him and asked him how he could stand himself. Please do not become the "oh poor you" person that I did. Once I did this a couple of times he stopped.

You are dealing with someone who should be an adult. He is not at all. In fact he would LOVE to isolate you because he can then live the carefree life he wants. See a lawyer. You have rights. Make sure you look after yourself.

HIS money? That reeks of power games in the relationship.

I also noticed this discrepancy. Is he calculating how much the family is saving for the fact that mum is working part time because there are children to look after? Whose children are they? I agree that money is the family money, not HIS money. Has he ever thought of working part time for the family and to allow mum to pursue her career? If she was bringing more money would that be HER money?

My husband earns a lot more than me but our savings are equally split in half. I never heard him say "my money".