SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I think what happens for a lot of people is that in our haste to try and understand what has happened, we latch on to what we believe are the facts of the case but don't stop to examine it all closely enough. We believe the things our WS tells us about the reasons why they cheated, even though our WS has a florid history of lies and adultery at this point. Once you've spent time processing infidelity, comparing your story to that of other survivors, reading and studying in an effort to really understand the mechanisms, the initial "facts of the case" start to seem a bit more suspect.

You can click the little person icon in the upper righthand corner of this post and read a bit of my backstory and why I firmly believe that cheating is a character problem. Like many folks, I fell into the "unmet needs" fallacy and paid the price for it. I think it's absolutely NORMAL for people who have been intimately betrayed to try blame themselves. It's not because we're martyrs. It's because underlying our hurt and grief is the compulsion to CONTROL the emotional maelstrom we suddenly find ourselves in. At the subconscious, we believe that if we are the reason something bad has happened, we can change our behavior and thus change our WS's behavior. We might not be able to control other people, but we can control ourselves, right? So, when the WS is telling us that they cheated because we weren't fulfilling their marital needs, we start wedging ourselves in to whatever cookie-cutter shape they describe, so as to FIX IT.

Problem is.. we can't "fix" other people. Marriages don't cheat. People do. Infidelity is a people problem. It's about character. It's about integrity. It's about what a person does when no one else is watching.

You don't control that. She does.

This laundry list of things that you feel like you did wrong, that somehow drove your WW to this desperate choice, are NOT the reasons why she cheated. She cheated because when her life became complicated, she had nothing inside herself telling her 'no'. When push came to shove, her values weren't what she had claimed. You could have been Attila the Hun in that marriage, and if her values of Fidelity and Honesty were in order, she might have dragged you to marriage counseling, taken the kid and left for her mother's, even filed for divorce, but she wouldn't have cheated. It wouldn't have been an option in her decision tree.

Long post shorter... don't believe everything you hear from your WS right now, and don't fall into the trap of taking responsibility for your WS's choices. Character faults are not necessarily unrecoverable, but it takes a painful and humbling effort from the WS to admit to their flaws and to remediate them. Question everything. Read and study. Make sure your ducks are lined up so that your options are open.

Once again:
Maybe the best thing you can do right now is accept that your situation is nothing special.

Our experience tells us that in probably over 70% of instances where the WS ends the affair and the OP thinks his relationship is safe because it’s all a secret the affair starts again.
Your WW is like someone that wakes up with a terrible hangover and promises never to touch the devil-water again. Only to be back at the bar in a couple of weeks. You need more than a promise.

They work together... Maybe after 2-3 months they are on the same project. Or a chance encounter at the coffeemaker: How are you doing? Your husband still mad? If you need support, you know where I am... and that small talk turns into a touch, and then more. Only now they will be more careful.

Our experience also tells us that 100% honesty is required to reconcile. It’s not going to work if you suspect every male at the office. You need to know exactly who he is.

Our experience also shows that in 8 out of 10 cases when a woman is told her husband is cheating his response is to distance himself from his lover – your wife. Being turned down by your lover is a real libido killer and reality-shaker.

I'm SO sorry you are here - your situation sounds so much like mine in the beginning that - ugh. Just ugh. I can tell you that I gave my WH the same options you are talking about and he chose #2 out loud and restarted the A 3 days later. His communications (and interactions) with the AP were like 99% while at work (they also were co-workers) - had he not gotten lazy in the year of their underground A/false R for us - he could have hid it from me electronically...but he could not hide his behavior. My quick advice:

1. Really accept you cannot control the outcome. If your WS indicates options 1 or 3 are her choice then be prepared to separate immediately. Do not do what I did and set boundaries for the WS to follow and then break them.

2. Tell the OBS now. Not because you want them to help you in breaking up the A - because it's the right thing to do. I waited a year after d-day 1 to tell the OBS. When I told him I found out that he also had found out the A was ongoing 9 months earlier but had been told lies by his wife, the AP, that it was a one time thing etc (my WH had an A with the wife of his friend and co worker - all 3 of them worked together - so I did know the OBS socially, but we were not friends outside of my WH). He had no clue it was ongoing after her confession but had he told me what he knew then it could have saved us both a lot of time and soul crushing "wondering" if we could trust our spouses. The not knowing if you can believe someone wears on you - and the longer it goes on the more it grates. I think you are beginning to understand this feeling - not being able to trust - the wondering and watching is exhausting. Trust me when I say that the longer it goes on the worse it is for YOU. The OBS and I both regretted not reaching out to each other sooner because we both deserved to know.

3. The A is NOT your fault. I don't care whether you ignored her 24 hours of every day for a year - she had MANY options about how to deal with that. She could have left you, said she wanted counseling, spent some actual time on her own or with friends who were not threats to your marriage - she could have gone to individual counseling if she needed someone to talk to. But instead she CHOSE to have an affair with a married person. These are choices. Not mistakes. She chose to do the wrong thing when faced with many options to do right. All the things you have mentioned about your own culpability in a less than perfect marriage are marriage counseling material - things to talk about when you have a problem in your marriage. An AFFAIR is NOT A PROBLEM WITH YOUR MARRIAGE. It is a problem with your WS. Period. As such, you do not need marriage counseling right now. Your WS needs counseling to figure out why she chose to take a chain saw to your marriage, to your feelings, to your family.

I cannot reiterate this enough as it is the toughest lesson an affair forces you to learn. Your WS has issues you likely were not aware of and they have NOTHING to do with you. Honestly, your poor WS is claiming that things were tough for her so she had to go outside to find someone to make her feel better. You need to see this for what it is - a character flaw in her.

I still date my WH and we have reconciled our friendship - so mine is not the story of an A that totally burned a relationship to the ground. But mine is long (d-day 1 for me was in 2017) and it was incredibly painful (I had false R for a year, then the A stopped, but he went back again after 3 months, so I had false R a second time and we divorced and I moved away). And incredibly detrimental to my own well being. Had I stuck to my guns on point 1 above, I have little doubt it all would have taken less time and had been at a far lesser emotional cost to me. We are only where we are because WH decided he did not like who he had become and wanted IC to figure out why he did what he did and how to become a better person - for him. He is now in his 4th year of IC and he is indeed a much better version of himself. But that road was LONG and HARD and honestly I made it more difficult on myself by trying to fix a marriage that could never be repaired with my WH as a defective parter.

The good news is you WILL get though this - and likely be stronger for it too.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 6:22 PM, Thursday, April 4th]

In reading Bigger's comment I want to reiterate this:

Our experience tells us that in probably over 70% of instances where the WS ends the affair and the OP thinks his relationship is safe because it’s all a secret the affair starts again. Your WW is like someone that wakes up with a terrible hangover and promises never to touch the devil-water again. Only to be back at the bar in a couple of weeks. You need more than a promise.

They work together... Maybe after 2-3 months they are on the same project. Or a chance encounter at the coffeemaker: How are you doing? Your husband still mad? If you need support, you know where I am... and that small talk turns into a touch, and then more. Only now they will be more careful.

Yes, yes and yes. The workplace affair is terrible on many levels - mostly because no contact can never be obtained when the WS and AP still work together. My WH on d-day 1 cried, begged me not to leave, and said the A was over (it wasn't). He then ended it on his own that next morning via text (she was off that day) and avoided her the next day that she worked, and then called in sick on the third day. On day number four when they met in person at the office it rekindled and went full blown right then and there. It just went deeper underground with 95% of it playing out when they were at work (or at least one of them was) and my WH was particularly diligent in not communicating with her when he was in my presence or even when I was at home, at all. They also had other weird and disgusting ways to pleasure themselves without actual physical intercourse that they somehow justified as "not cheating" or "not cheating as much" for that year.

My WH's A lasted as long as it did and went as deep underground as it was because they still worked together and had almost daily contact for the year after d-day. And every single day I wondered about what was happening. Every single day I bounced between believing him and being sure the A was ongoing. When I had his electronics forensically recovered I found that sometimes I was right to be suspicious and other times I was dead wrong. Basically I lived in this horrible horrible horrible limbo for a year because the one thing I did know was that they saw each other all the time. It's no way to live.

In the end their A blew up in rather fantastic fashion. Everyone at his work found out. We divorced as did OBS and AP, albeit several years later, and WS did not change jobs but took a new shift where they are not on site at the same time and usual not even the same days. As I said already we now date very casually and from afar and we are still friends - but my situation is not the norm, and again, it only exists because of the work my WH has done on himself and because I am not emotionally invested enough anymore to worry about his behavior.

I’m sorry you are here. You’ve gotten lots of good advice and taken some good actions.

I may have phrased the options you gave her differently but the intent you have is good.

Here are some things I would stress and perhaps incorporate into what you are telling her:

1) "if he is in your heart and has and have love for him, then our relationship cannot be rebuilt and is over. It is impossible for us to work on our marriage while you are in love with another man. If someday you realize this man is not your knight in shining armor and you want to try again with me we would have to start from the beginning. There is no fast pass back to the point where we were last happy or even to the point where you chose to break your wedding vows. If you come to that point and let me know you want to start something new with me, at that time I can let you know if I am Interested in pursuing that with you. I make no guarantees that I will be. "

2) "there is no rebuilding our relationship while you have any contact with this man. That includes working with him. It is no longer possible for us to be in a relationship and have him in our lives in any way shape or form. Until he is gone forever, fully blocked and as I said above, out of your heart, I am not willing to work on anything with you. "

3) "I love you and was still in love with you when you chose to cheat. We may have been going through a rough period but I didn’t fall out of love with you. When you went through that rough patch while our baby was born I stood beside you and tried to build you up. When I went through something recently with my work that was similar, you lost faith in me and looked elsewhere, leaving me unsupported. We could have worked on our issues if you had come to me and made clear the need to do so. Instead your choice of infidelity makes it now impossible to do that work until your affair is over and worked through. You did the equivalent of dropping a bomb on a house that needed a small roof repair. It will need exponentially more effort on each of us to fix what you did before we could ever focus again on our relationship "

4) "lastly if this man is what you want. If you love him and need to be with him, then it’s time for you to go. You can’t undo what you have done. We cant just go back to being a loving couple whether you love him or don’t. So if you love him and he’s now the one for you, then go. Just go. Don’t waste my time. Having you lie about how you feel about me to save my feelings hurts far worse than the truth. So tell the truth. Don’t say I don’t know. I don’t know is worse than saying you love him. So be honest for once and we will move on accordingly. "

Those my friend are some things I think about when I read a story like yours. The faster you can come to the conclusion that repairing what she did is impossible while he is still anywhere in her heart or your lives will help you stop wasting time.

Again I am sorry you are here. Be firm and honest about what you need moving forward and then move forward without her until you see her delivering on what you need.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 11:45 AM, Friday, April 5th]

Appreciate everyone’s responses. Here’s the latest as some has been true and some has been false.

I found out that they did sleep together. She went to a work conference and went out two days early and they met up then. They stayed at the hotel we’ve been to on countless trips and to see that this was pre-meditated to plan out a trip was pretty damn painful. While she was there I was at home with our daughter caring for her for a week.

She did a lot of lying for about a 5-7 day period that I unraveled slowly. I found how who he was and uncovered plenty of work chats and calls between them. Once I started digging she was pretty bad about covering her tracks. I handle all of our online accounts for shared things and I went back and saw about 45 hours worth of calls starting in January.

Her timeline was at least truthful, he reached out to her at the end of January and said he was interested in her. This was on a work call about work things. She bought it and they started talking over the phone. He lived in a different state so it was all remote until deciding to meet up in person in the beginning of March. They had also planned to go on another trip (that didn’t happen cause I found out) and one more was in talks to happen in June.

Finding out it was sexual hurt a lot more, there’s no doubt about that. After I found out she broke down. All of the lies unraveled and it crumbled her. I don’t have sympathy for her actions but I did have sympathy for my wife and what she knew she had done to our marriage and to our family. She asked to do counseling and give it one more try. I knew in my heart that I wouldn’t be able to divorce or stay together without one more try. This time however it’s with eyes wide open. I’m seeing sides of her character that were given the benefit of the doubt before but now they’re under a microscope because I deserve to be happy. If we go through counseling and the next few days/weeks/months together and I’m not happy, I’m out and I’ve told her that. I’ve come to terms with that and while it’s sad, I just can’t subject myself to the hell I’ve experienced in the past month any longer. I’ve also told her if I’m going to try I’m going to try, I’m
not going to hold it over her head and I’m going to try the right way. I know that I can protect my sanity and know I did everything I could if this doesn’t work out.

I have already contacted the best divorce lawyer in town and have my plan for worse case set and am not going to be dupped.

Her company just announced that they are splitting off from the company that this man worked for, so I know there’s no need to contact each other even for work specific things anymore. That plus the fact he’s in a different state and the assurances she’s given me plus the very diligent measures I’ve put into place to monitor her activity, I do feel good at the moment that they are officially not contacting each other since I found out about the full extent of the affair.

I’d obviously prefer this to work out in the end, otherwise I’d leave. I know the odds aren’t in our favor, and there’s a lot of uncovering we’ve dime about her and each other the past couple of weeks. If things can continue to grow, I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. If they don’t grow, I know I will have done everything I can.

Thanks for the update.

Marriage counseling is not advisable at this time.

Individual counseling is.

Your marriage isn't broken, she cheated, she needs to figure out why. Being lonely or whatever is not an excuse. My husband traveled a great deal for his job, was active in a sport that he had been involved in since he was a kid which kept him away from home two nights a week when he was not traveling. I felt very alone and ignored and unappreciated. I did not cheat. He did.

I hope you informed the other man's wife, she deserves her own agency in her life.

I hope you informed the other man's wife, she deserves her own agency in her life.

And don't inform your WW you're doing so! OBS is probably wondering why AP is acting the way he is, just as you were feeling something was wrong but couldn't put your finger on it just before you discovered the A, it's the RIGHT thing to do. OBS is your biggest ally in this, she is a second set of eyes on the A. OM will throw your WW under the bus to save his marriage. Again, don't inform your WW your contacting OBS, sit back and when your WW comes at you for destroying another marriage, you know they're still in contact. (BTW, you won't be destroying a marriage, they did that all by themselves.)

[This message edited by DeWittle at 1:44 PM, Monday, April 22nd]

OP, if you still haven’t (privately) informed OBS, you are working against yourself. You’ve stated you want R. Informing OBS could be the single-most powerful tool to kill the A you have. The OM nearly always drops his side piece and goes into to M damage control mode. The OBS also becomes your ally and set of eyes on the OM he won’t be able to shake. Let your adulterous wife feel the sting of the OM dropping her like a hot potato when his wife finds out.

Hope you stop working against yourself.

Too many people in your position want to get back what you (thought) you had and make concessions way too early. Much of that is tied to the idea that this was a blip in your marriage. You need to accept that she ended your marriage the moment she decided to engage in this affair. Long before it became physical, even. She willfully ended it.
There should be no marriage counseling because there is no marriage. It's over.
What you can do is rebuild it if she proves worthy. She is entitled and selfish, and she has to address that to be a safe partner. She needs to get into IC, like, yesterday. Even though you didn't do anything wrong, you should as well. You're dealing with an especially shitty trauma that requires treatment. Just like a regular injury.
She needs to offer you a full written timeline, which should be backed up by a poly.
You must contact the OBS and shed light on this. He needs to have his world blown up just like hers is. Right now they are both equal POSs who should face the consequences of their actions.
Then, you watch her. Pay attention to her actions because her words cannot be trusted. That takes time.
You can't lead her through it, either. She needs to take the initiative to fix the thing she broke and now says she wants to fix. She may not be up for it. Don't give her any slack or benefit of the doubt. She needs to hold herself accountable.
Even then, it may still be a deal-breaker for you. There's no shame in doing all the work and then realizing you can't live with what she did. If you decide to leave, then leave; if it's stay, then stay.
Then, and only then, can you start thinking about reconciliation and MC.
Stay strong.

I’ve sent a message to the AP’s wife this morning. I haven’t heard back as the only way I could find to contact her was through LinkedIn. I found an email that my wife sent to the AP letting him know that our cat had died. The cat that we rescued when we first moved in together 15 years ago. He died last week and she reached out to let this AP know and her explanation was that she needed someone to talk to about it besides me. Like I wasn’t grieving enough about everything, I loved that cat and to hear her share her grief with some shit hole who’s never even seen the damn cat was a lot yet again.

As for counseling. I’ve already started IC. My wife has not but is saying it’s because she wants to see the same MC counselor for individual counseling. I told her today that if she cared she’s make that an urgent priority. All therapists in our area did have a crazy long wait list, and I was just able to get into my first IC last week. I wanted in person as talking to someone online just isn’t the same.

Appreciate everyone’s advice. I was sad sending the message to the AP’s wife, but I ultimately decided it was the right thing to do. I needed time to make sure I wasn’t doing that out of revenge or a ploy to get my wife back cause that’s not me.

Don’t tell your wife you’ve contacted OMW yet. She’ll probably find out on her own. How she reacts to that news will tell you soooo much about where things stand.

The fact that she thought in any way it was ok to contact the AP for whatever reason shows she still has him in her heart.

Please re-read some of the possible quotes I put in my post above. I believe them to be still valid for you to say something like them to her.

Well done reaching out to the AP's wife.
I second what OhItsYou says about not revealing you've done this. If the AP contacts her about this, her reaction will reveal a lot.

she reached out to let this AP know and her explanation was that she needed someone to talk to about it besides me. Like I wasn’t grieving enough about everything,

Just want to reassure you how very understandable it is that you are hurt by this and see it as another betrayal. It is.

She is still leaning on the AP for emotional support, so the affair isn't over. I'm so sorry.

IMO, she's truly looking for justication to reach out. He never met this pet, yet she "needed" his emotional support. Yikes!

More than that, she now knows how hurt you are by her relationship with this man, yet continues to choose to keep communicating with him.
She continues to choose "helping" herself at the expense of harming you.
Sit with that for a bit.

Again. I'm so sorry for your pain.

The AP’s wife responded. But honestly it feels like it’s him. The account now says it’s unable to receive any more messages and I can’t find her in search results anymore, like she blocked me. There isn’t many search results for her online to begin with, LinkedIn was the only thing I could find and now it’s blocked.

In the past before actually contacting her, when I told my wife she should know and she said, “oh she already knows, he told me he told her I made sure of that.” I’m like 🤨🙄

8:34

"Hi, —- , wow I find this shocking. Do you have any text messages or things you can share? What did you catch them doing?

I am shaken. Tomorrow is our anniversary so this is so unsettling. But please if you have any evidence let me know and share it."

9:50

"Well I did talk to —- and he admitted it. I really do appreciate you reaching out it and telling me otherwise I’m not sure I would have known. Again this is incredibly shocking, we have two young daughters. I am not even sure how to process"

And now the account is blocked/removed to reply back to.

It’s possible she did this on her own DDAY, but now that it’s not possible to contact her I feel as if he got a hold of it somehow.

[This message edited by newbeginnings1985 at 11:22 AM, Tuesday, April 23rd]

If you know where she works, get a phone number and call her. The. You’ll know for sure if it’s her or not.

She works for a large corporation and a job posting for a similar role mentioned it’s remote friendly. I did think of that just have to find a way to find a number or her work email.

Long lists for local therapists is a cop-out. It's 2024 and we went through the pandemic teleconferencing revolution. She can connect to a therapist anywhere in the world virtually now.

I do my weekly therapy on lunch, in my car, on a conference call. My therapist doesn't live anywhere near me. If she's serious about this, she'll find one, not make excuses.

Couldn’t agree more Icedover. Her excuse was wanting the same IC as our MC, and she wasn’t available until next week. I’m not blind to the commitment that it shows from her that she didn’t spend more time solving it immediately.

I called everyone in our area for IC. I have done therapy in the past and knew I wanted in person and it took until last week for me to find one with availability.

I also guessed the AP’s wife’s email based on where she worked and her first and last name and sent an email this morning. Doubt he has quite as easy access to her work email on any shared devices but we’ll see. I gave her my number and told her she can reach out for any info I can provide. Her blocking me on LinkedIn after the messages I sent just didn’t smell right. It didn’t get bounced back so we’ll see.

Her excuse was wanting the same IC as our MC, and she wasn’t available until next week.

.

I’d be careful with this, her IC could be biased when it comes to MC. Have you checked with that therapist about their views on infidelity and how they’re going to handle your WW’s IC and your MC?