SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Why would AP email him happy birthday unless they have had some contact/reconciliation since the break up?

I too had false R.

But I've seen this type of thing happen. After a period of time the AP [or LTAP in my case] wants to still remain "relevant" and "remind him" that she was there. Creepy - sure. Stalkerish - definitely. Pathetic - absofuckingloutely.

It's a poke of sorts. The ultimate issue is how did your WS handle it?

It is another DDay for you. Be kind to yourself. Big hugs.

In my case - LTAP did this 3years after the final DDay (where I exposed to OBS - and it ended with me going to my local precinct because as LTAP left her home (6 hours away) yelled out the window to OBS she was going to "fuck that bitch up" for "ruining her life". OBS told me - I told the local precinct. They called her advising her "that would be foolish" and put a "look out" for her car make/model (out of state so easy to spot) as well as regular drive bys for my house for a period of time.

3 years later I'd found her creating fake profiles with fake names following WH on FaceBook. I exposed that to OBS and WH - and he immediately contacted an attorney to send a "strongly worded" Cease and Desist. The attorney nicknamed her "Bunny Boiler"

Not to ThreadJack - but some APs just can't let go. They will spend the rest of their days trying to remind you and/or your WS that they exist - that they are relevant - that they are still out there. The Discovery Channel is full of shows dealing with this shit.

All of this is a convoluted way of saying - it could very well be all one sided. Document your findings. Then when you have all the info - figure out what you want to do.

I think it’s too early to dismiss this as one sided contact more so when your gut tells you that there is more than just the AP wishing him Happy Birthday out of nowhere based on the tone of the email.

Prior to dday2 I knew in my gut something was not right. WH was doing everything right according to what I could gather from SI and yet the man I knew him to be would not have been capable to turn his back on a person he cared about just because I tell him so, as weird as that sounds. I knew he wanted to reconcile, AP was single and ready to go off into the sunset, but my gut was screaming that they’re still talking.

I’ve been walking on eggshells too those 4 months constantly worrying that my emotional turmoil was too much and will drive him away. What was actually too much was that there were still 3 people in my marriage and two of those were corroborating to deceive the crap out of me. He would moan to her about my meltdowns and she’d tell him how he doesn’t deserve any of it.

The reason I’m telling you all this is to show that eggshells walking doesn’t work, you cannot nice them back into the marriage.

It could be that the contact is one sided but one thing I have learned from infidelity is to trust my gut, your gut is telling you there is more, listen to it.

I agree with Luna (which is pretty much all I've contributed to this thread).

To put a finer point on it: even if his story is true, um, still a big fat fail. When does he treat her like an enemy of the marriage? When does he react in a "mama bear" way to a threat to his marriage?

He gets that email and does what? Waits?

HIs response should have been to tell you immediately. A phone call is fine. Nothing to be gained from telling you in person. But immediately telling you is a sign that you are his priority. Working through a response WITH YOU means you two are a team. He didn't do that. He did nothing. Hell, he didn't even write her back to tell her to get lost and leave the two of you alone.

You remain vigilant and stressed from the effort because he has not taken up the sword. He can't sit passively by and hope you two women figure it out. That puts you on even ground with his mistress. That is cowardly, insulting and just plain preposterous.

And that's assuming he's telling the truth.

Stop walking on eggshells (easier said than done but that is part of letting go of the outcome). You deserve a partner that can man up and protect you and his marriage.

If she dumped him I get your concern that he might still be pining for her. He's left her with that power. The question is: do you want her to have the power to upset your life whenever she chooses?

[This message edited by TheEnd at 2:00 AM, Sunday, March 17th]

I'm going to sound a bit more sterner than the others here.

You can't nice him back into the marriage. You can't love him into being faithful. With how things are going as of now, you'll sooner destroy yourself before you see even a smidge of what you want to see from him. You're walking on eggshells and twisting yourself into knots trying not to push him, but to him, he apparently can treat you however he wants.

He was going to tell you about the contact? I frankly call bullsh*t. In my opinion, true reconciliation can't happen unless he stops lying or he cuts all absolute contact with the OW. And he doesn't seem willing to do either.

Good luck. I personally believe you deserve better than this "love triangle" that he's dragged you into.

Hi Cedarwoods,

I completely understand what you are going through and you are doing the right thing by coming here to process this new betrayal. You were feeling hopeful because he is doing all the right things, but any contact still leaves the door open to AP and that is scary. And I understand why you want to stay - you have worked hard to overcome DD1 and now you have a setback -- but the underlying reasons for wanting to stay with him are still there and you don't want to rock the boat again, because you have worked hard to come this far. I get it.

Something about your story tells me they may have had other conversations, if the tone of the email does not align with the message you saw. I am in a similar situation - quick backstory, my WH had a 6 month affair last year, I found out. He told her NC, they stopped chatting on their traditional means of contact (text, so I assumed NC was happening) Yes - he ended it with her (I have proof), but he did it way too nicely and that left the door open. Instead of being scared about getting caught, she increased her efforts and goaded him/manipulated him into using other ways to communicate, finding any excuse to reach out (work-related, other excuses) and within 1 month of D Day, they were back in contact. He had no interest in seeing her, he just felt like he had to respond because he was trying to be a nice guy and did not want drama. I found out, tried to ignore it for a week (eggshells) and then finally hit my limit - did what others are referring to as 'willing to lose the marriage'. Like you, I felt the risk of verbalizing it, but I was at my breaking point. (you may not be there yet, but you will know) I was scared, but I told him that I had had enough and that he should go be with her. (She is married btw). I believe he went dark from that day on. Can I ever be sure? No. But I have ways of checking, and being the marriage police is not the marrriage I wanted. He ignores and deletes. He knows the consequences. I have chosen to believe him, even though he is a proven liar in the past. But I do believe he wants it gone and wishes it had never happened. Given that your WH's AP broke up with him, her reaching out has a different dimension, but I hope he has the same reaction. He should have told you. But I know that they (WH) hate to have even those conversations because it's uncomfortable for them - my WH view it as a setback, which is completely unfair. Does your WH know the consequences or are the eggshells making it hard to have that conversation?

So you see, the problem is, your WH's AP might always try to reach back out - you can't control them. I wish we could. That is the hardest part. You need a plan with your husband and unfortunately, that plan will come with a hard conversation. Is she married? One suggestion that I am considering is a cease and desist letter to the AP, but my WH would need to be on board with that. Have you thought about his? Or are you still on eggshells - believe me - I completely understand how you are feeling. On the one hand you have what appears to be R. But there is an undercurrent of distrust because he is allowing the AP to communicate. Hang in there, you seem to be thinking clearly and strategically.

Chaos:

Your WH’s ap is a total nightmare! I admire your strength and wisdom in how you handled it and were able to move forward. The AP I am dealing with is divorced. She has a history of getting involved with men in committed relationships. She has a pattern of breaking up with them multiple times and getting back with them. And sending them happy birthday emails/texts after they break up. When you see her from the outside (her appearance, social standing, job status) she seems so impressive. But she is so messed up.

TheEnd, Forks, CanadianFarmgirl

Thank you for your replies. Yes i agree totally that walking on eggshells is NOT the right way to do R. I guess it goes back to my FOO where i was taught to be passive, submissive, obedient, and compromising and never really stand up for myself. It all sucks so much. But reading your words gives me strength to push back to WH’s bullshit and go after what i want: honesty and fidelity.

I am going to demand either a polygraph or phone records. I am pretty sure it will prove that there had been contact. What’s my next move then? What would you do?

[This message edited by cedarwoods at 4:10 PM, Sunday, March 17th]

I guess it goes back to my FOO where i was taught to be passive, submissive, obedient, and compromising and never really stand up for myself.

I totally feel you in this. Females especially are groomed to smile and be pleasant. The role model marriages we had were largely traditional, and in that way so many women walked right into adulthood with messages that doesn’t serve us.

Men can obviously be people pleasers too, I just think women in general are often taught to be accommodating. Maybe not as much in these younger generations but the sexual revolution is deeper into history for them and society has had a bit more time to catch up to its effects.

Anyway, it’s ingrained and can be better or more severe based on individual circumstances.

I wouldn’t have gone into all that except to point out a lot of these patterns we learn in Foo and we base our self worth around how we love others and taking care of our families. Because doing so is an affirmation that we are "good women".

Unfortunately that means we can overlook our own desires and needs and sacrifice to the point we self abandon. I don’t see that here yet. I see you are shocked, devastated, and confused. Don’t let that turn into self abandonment because then you pay the price and you are an innocent bystander in your husbands war with himself.

So, you have to be your own best friend here. Talk to yourself as you would your best friend, or even your daughter. You don’t have to make choices right now about divorce if you are not ready, but you do need to stand up for that good girl, who became a good woman, and not allow herself to settle for behavior towards her that she does not deserve.

The fall out for him needs to be clear. The line in the sand must be drawn. He needs to know it’s time to stand up and be a man and protect his wife or get the fuck out. You can’t nice him back or he is not going to get the point. How you accomplish that is really up to you but don’t be afraid of the outcome. You already are in the worst outcome, so anything that happens now is going to be a better outcome.

It’s all about framing, cedar. You do not deserve this, nor should you tolerate it. Recognize the patterns you have to make everything okay for everyone else and not rocking the boat doesn’t serve you. Rock the boat, and if he is any kind of man he will do whatever he needs to hold on and stay in the boat. That’s up to him to do, not the other way around.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:32 PM, Sunday, March 17th]

HikingOut
Thank you again for your wise words.
What you say here

You already are in the worst outcome, so anything that happens now is going to be a better outcome.

is so incredibly true and poignant. I never really thought of it like that!!! Wow. Thank you. I guess the fear of the unknown is paralyzing to me. Taking risks and seeking adventure was never my thing. I want everything neat and tidy. "Don’t rock the boat" i guess has been my MO all my life.
It’s interesting how a betrayal gets us to look into ourselves and examine who we really are. It exposes all our vulnerabilities and issues what we’ve kept buried for so long. At my age, it’s uncomfortable to change but change I must.

t’s interesting how a betrayal gets us to look into ourselves and examine who we really are. It exposes all our vulnerabilities and issues what we’ve kept buried for so long. At my age, it’s uncomfortable to change but change I must.

Oh how true.

The good news is that you can be or have anything you want. The power is within you. You are divinely loved and guided and tuning into that really helped me in my path. (I am not saying you have to be religious if you are not, I am not in particular either) but spiritually is about nurturing our own spirit and being intentional. I think infidelity has taught me to stop sleep walking and be intentional in the life I want to create for myself.

We get one life and we get to choose how we exist in it. Best wishes for you. Perhaps when you are feeling a little more up to it, consider getting out and joining a group that aligns with your interests. Work on building new relationships and expanding. You have been ditched by unworthy friends, and while they share a history with you it doesn’t mean you can’t find new friends that you can connect with more deeply. You do not have to be so alone moving forward. Until you can get there, we are all your friends and we are rooting for you.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:42 PM, Sunday, March 17th]

I am going to demand either a polygraph or phone records. I am pretty sure it will prove that there had been contact. What’s my next move then? What would you do?

If that’s the case tell him you’re done. And be done! You cannot live with the AP sword over your head, whenever she fancies some contact, your WH engages back. That’s why the problem here after all is not the AP (I can’t believe I’m saying that since the AP in our case was a true mental case), it’s your husband. He’s the one who didn’t close the door firmly on her.

The AP in my WH’s affair return to the same place of work in 2023, so they’re back working together for the same organisation. I can tell you hand on heart I do not care. We had a quick conversation about it when she unblocked me on LinkedIn and looked at my profile (so I can see she returned, on the same role as 5 years prior, lack of progress is something to be proud of in her head, but hey, she’s so obsessed, she wanted to go back to post dday early days drama), talked about how it will be dealt with if they ever find themselves in the same meeting, although they shouldn’t as they’re different departments and that was that. My WH went in reassurance mode for a few months but we have since pretty much forgotten she’s there.

That’s because I have seen what closing the door on her looked like and it wasn’t nice. I know that her contacting him would be his worst nightmare and he would tell me immediately.

I agree TheEnd, he should have told you immediately. That was his opportunity to show he’s worthy of your gift, to show that he has no intention of reigniting the relationship with her. There is absolutely no excuse to only tell you once he’s been discovered. The only "excuse" is that he wouldn’t have told you if you didn’t see it by yourself.

I’m sorry, I know how these days feel. I think in a way for me dday 2 was more painful than dday1 because I suddenly realised that I was left without a choice, there was no other option than to head for divorce… yes we didn’t divorce after all because the changes he demonstrated but it was years until I’ve accepted it may actually work out.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 6:45 PM, Sunday, March 17th]

Thank you all.

I have decided either he takes the poly, or provides me with the phone records (which also includes texts), or comes clean (and maybe we can find a way to work through this relapse)

If he refuses, then as many of you said, i don’t have anything to work with.

I must walk away.

I hope that’s not being rash.

My rational is that unless I see some proof now, I will always be left wondering. Unless he shows me he is willing to do whatever it takes to make me feel safe and prove that he’s all in, then why the hell am I here?

This was not an easy decision

Even as i type these words I am terrified. I will let you know how it goes. I ask for your continued support and encouragement as I am not sure I can do this alone. My world has completely fallen apart and I am utterly devastated. This is not where I had hoped to be. I really hoped I could write one of those success reconciliation stories. Thank you so much

[This message edited by cedarwoods at 1:31 AM, Monday, March 18th]

I am so sorry Cedarwood, I can feel your pain through your words. I know how terribly hard this is, and I really hope your WH pulls his head completely out of his ass and does what you need to reconcile.

If that doesn't happen, I wish you strength and healing.

Sending strength and support!

I’m so sorry, cedar. It’s so very unfair that you’re here, and you’re right—infidelity cuts to the quick and exposes all our vulnerabilities. But you have a good plan for addressing this, and you WILL move forward to a better place, even if the road is hard.

I’m so sorry that he’s done this and that you are suffering once again at the hands of your WH and his AP.

For what it’s worth, I’d vote that he commits to all 3: full transparency including phone records, a polygraph, and well, coming clean fully is a minimum. He can’t be committed to you and your marriage while keeping his secrets and communicating with her in any capacity. He can’t be committed to you and still be committed to sneakiness and hiding and dishonesty—yes, even if he says that he’s doing it to protect you (which is just a lie).

Tell him he needs to do all 3, NOW, as the bare minimum that he can do to show to you and himself that he is in it to try to fix what he did and recommit to you. If he can’t do it, he really is not R material. I know it’s hard to hear that, but it’s true. You can try to convince yourself that it’s complicated or he’s "trying," but it’s really hard for him (to be honest and open and committed and stop talking to the woman he was/is fucking around with). You can even tell yourself that maybe you don’t need all of those things.

But that would be you trying to accept the unacceptable and treat yourself with less than the respect and love that you deserve. We’ve all been there and done that. I certainly have. No shame and no blame. It just takes a long time and a lot of repeated abuse and realization for some of us to accept it. It’s up to you how much of your precious, unrepeatable time you give him if he’s not even sure that he can do these minimal things.

He was able to betray you, disrespect you, and devastate you and your life. He should be able to do some small, reassuring, honest things to show that he regrets it, is remorseful, and most of all, actually wants to be with you and create a good M for BOTH of you.

You sound strong and prepared. You have a plan. There are always still surprises, but trust yourself, stay strong, and remember that you still have you. This will get better. You can recover with or without him. It will probably even be easier if it turns out it’s without him.

Sending you hugs of strength and comfort.Good luck.

My rational is that unless I see some proof now, I will always be left wondering. Unless he shows me he is willing to do whatever it takes to make me feel safe and prove that he’s all in, then why the hell am I here?

YES. Being in limbo is its own special kind of HELL .

You have lived a little bit of it by not being able to eat or sleep since finding this out. Please DON'T SETTLE. YOU are actually in control right now Dear Lady...even though it may not feel like it now (((HUGS))).

My H THOUGHT I would cry, scream, lash out, crumble, if I found out he cheated. He was determined to take his overseas A to his grave. He wasn't counting on the immense GUILT he felt when he saw me at the airport when he came back home. After 2 days he braced himself for the backlash of my emotions and confessed. To BOTH of our surprise...I had NO emotion to his confession AT ALL . I just matter-of-factly told him the M was over. I then calmly got up to leave the room so that he could contact the adultery co-conspirator to make arrangements for their new life together because ours was DONE. That shook him to his CORE. He told me later that his heart SANK.

This is why I write about the limbic system so often. Thirty years before...I lived through a similar experience with my 1st H when I found out he was cheating on me. I did the pick-me-dance back then...and I won...he came back to me. Only...I caught him with another adultery co-conspirator about 2 years later. That experience stayed with me all this time...and came back to protect me on the Dday I had with my 2nd H. I felt like I was watching a movie. It was ME saying and doing all of those things...but that was NOT the person who always acted on emotion !! The pick-me-dance never works. NEVER. But I guarantee you that losing your marriage in order to save it certainly can !! IF this doesn't KNOCK some sense into your WH and put him back on the path to R...he was never going to be on it in the first place...and you have saved yourself a lot of time and heartache.

IF your WH is being truthful...then he will be more than happy to do the polygraph and give the phone records. People who have nothing to hide...hide nothing...as Dr. Phil likes to say . It will be another way to build trust for you!

You are not being rash at all Dear Lady . Something is OFF...you KNOW it. Knowledge is POWER! It could have been this email...and it could just be a setback. Or it could be something else...and it could be a dealbreaker. NONE of us on here can make that decision for you. YOU will know though. Don't worry...you've got this .

This is exactly what is meant by, 'You need to risk your M to save it.'

You are setting a requirement that your WS can reject. You've gotten down to a deal killer, and you have to risk rejection, because if your WS won't do what you're asking, the Mo isn't worth keeping.

Despite the fear that he might reject the requirement, it's a good step for you to take. If he won't meet your requirements, you simply won't be able to build an M that serves you well enough.

I hope he chooses to meet your reqs. You win either way - you either take a step towards your new M, or you find out your WS won't be the partner you want.

Thank you all so much for your encouragement.
Everything you say is so true and it gives me more strength every time i read your replies.
It’s time I stand my ground.
Thank you
Will keep you posted

I’m a Madhatter, which honestly just makes things messier, but it doesn’t mean the core principles we discuss on here don’t apply.

My MHW went NC with her AP by blocking him after sending the message. A couple of weeks after she did that, she was using her iPad when a message from him came through. She had blocked his phone number on her iPhone, but his iCloud ID was also linked to an email address, which she didn’t think to block. She again sent an NC message and blocked that. It was two days later when she called me in a bit of a panic, she FaceTimed with me to show that when she sat down to pay bills on the office Mac 🖥️, that another message came through. It was then that we learned how blocking on an Apple device doesn’t always go to another right away. It was an iCloud setting thing that we were able to fix and it put us at relative ease. Within about 6 weeks after she confessed to her whole affair on DDay1 and sent the first NC, we finally had an end of him being able to reach out to her. To the best is my knowledge she hasn’t heard from him in 4 years after did that.

My EA AP went to great lengths to try and reach out to me, even after a clear NC message and block. She created a couple of throw away Facebook profiles to try and find me, because I blocked her, but what she didn’t know is that I nuked my Facebook. So she did the next best thing in her eyes, she tried reaching out to my wife with screenshots of messages that my wife had seen and had copies of. About two months after I had been NC, my wife found a whole bunch of desperate messages from the AP that started out as her trying to get my wife to leave me and by the end of them, she was telling my wife that she can keep me and that she didn’t want anything to do with me. These messages were sent with one of the fake Facebook profiles and since my wife had her privacy settings pretty locked down, they didn’t even go to the regular messenger, they went to like a holding spot for suspicious messages from people you aren’t connected with on the platform. When she found them that one night, we both had a bit of a chuckle at her evolvement over a series of weeks that she sent these messages. My wife blocked and deleted the messages and we were done….until about 6 months later when I woke up to a single text message from a number I didn’t recognize, but was obviously her based off the country code (Mexico) and the way she writes. I didn’t even unlock my phone, rolled over to my wife who was just waking up and I said, we’ve got another message from AP and handed her my phone. She blocked and deleted and then we agreed that this is the last time we take no further action. The next time we are just gonna change my number and be done with it. I mean, the thought in those moments was, man, I’ve had this phone number for over 20 years since my parents got me my first cell phone at age 16. The number of family, friends, doctors offices, lawyers, vendors, etc who have this contact number would be a massive undertaking, but far less of a pain in the ass than losing my marriage over something so silly as an AP continuing attempts to make contact.

Also, I will share this in hopes to see another perspective. It wouldn’t be for a few months into my journey when I read "Not Just Friends" that I began to see in retrospect that a friendship I had in 2013-2015 when I worked with a woman was actually another EA. No sense in digging into those details here, but my wife and I agreed it was an EA and that we would take the same actions. One key difference is that I hadn’t really stayed in contact with my former colleague, or at least regularly, so I just went ahead and blocked her phone number at that same time as I went NC with my AP mexicana…never thought anymore of it. Last summer, after not having any contact for nearly 4 years, this former colleague sends me a message through LinkedIn, the social network I rarely use. I remember seeing her name pop up on my phone with a message and I felt a sense of dread. It was in that moment that I had realized I made an honest mistake of never blocking her there because I forgot we were connected and it’s an oft-neglected social media platform for me, probably logging in maybe once a month if I’m not in an active job search, which I am now, but I was not at the time last year. I took a screenshot of the message and sent it to my wife via text. Apologized and told her that I had forgotten all about my LinkedIn connection to this former colleague. When we got home, she found my phone and message from her exactly as I had described to her via text. She did the honors and then she asked me if I could think of any other place that this particular former colleague could reach me. I sat down and told her that over the years it was mostly iMessages, Facebook messenger, SnapChat and emails. The thing was that the other four methods had already been taken care of as I willingly nuked my Facebook and SnapChat accounts as well as deleting the Apps from my phone now going on 4+ years. I was devastated and my wife could see it, but because we handled it together it served to help our bond grow.

It doesn’t seem like what I described is what you are going through with your WH, but there are actions he could take that would demonstrate that he is serious about maintaining his NC. He cannot account for the AP creating new emails or getting a new email from a new job. However, he could consider a new email address or if it’s a work thing, he could request that the company change his email so that her attempts to reach him get bounced. Eventually she will get the picture or she will escalate and that is when you can take legal actions.

Bor9455
Thank you for sharing your story. It sounds like you and your wife worked as a united front. This is a silly and stupid question but How did you get to that point? Did you have an aha moment via counseling? Reading? Common sense?