SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

October 22nd WH(41) asked me(37) to call in to work because he had something to tell me and it was going to hurt. I called in and then sat down, and he told me he had been seeing someone else (Cow/25) for about a year. It had stopped for a few months while she was dating another Cow, but had started again when she broke up with the other man on Oct 8. OW's ex had found out they were seeing each other and threatened to tell me and he didn't want me finding out that way. He was confused about what he wanted, stated the typical ILYBINILWY. I asked him if he meant he wanted to leave me, got the "I don't know" response. We then tried finding him a place to go, he contacted multiple other Cow that didn't have anywhere for him to stay (OW doesn't have facebook and at that point he didn't even have her phone number). I called our parents (We've been married for 20 years and our parents got married in 2019 to each other) and his dad said he could stay there. I packed his things up and we drove over there, only for his dad to immediately dive into "we need to go home and just work things out". I stated he didn't want to do that, and his dad asked him if he could walk away from her, he said he didn't know. He wouldn't let him stay, so we went back home to continue to try to figure out a place for him to go.
He left for work that night (works a 5 pm to 330 am shift). When I got up in the morning, I asked if he had any luck, and even OW wasn't able to let him stay. I went to work and came home early. I woke him up after thinking for a bit and asked him if he wanted to work on falling back in love. We set up his intake with the VA, so he could get counseling scheduled with them, and set up counseling with a local therapist for me and for marriage counseling. No hysterical bonding, but did have a few talks where he was giving honest answers for what he was sure about, but a lot of "I don't knows" about his feelings. Didn't make it two weeks before I got frustrated at him being distant and getting no effort from him, and calmly talked to him about it. He broke down and said he had been with OW again. I told him that he needed to get a new job or be out by the time I got home in the morning. He asked "what if its someone else at the new job?" I'm guessing I heard from that "I would rather be with anyone than you" than him being terrified to trust himself.
I went to work the next morning and asked him in the afternoon if the kids were ok, he said they were and he had told them all. I asked if he was gone yet, and he said he was in a cab already. Had a panic attack at work, but managed to finish the day. I had assumed he had gone to stay in her car or something. The following Tuesday was what we thought was our first counseling session. I went and picked him up and we went to the appointment, where we were told that we couldn't get couples counseling until we'd had 3 or 4 individuals each. We both argued with the person that we needed immediate help to try to figure out our living situation, and she implied that the next appointment was couples. I didn't realize until later that we didn't schedule and individual session for me, so that should have been an indicator. I took him back to a grocery store where I had picked him up and went home.
We had discussed him coming over to see the kids on Sundays while I was at work, but he asked to do it on Saturday since we both had the day off. Saturday came and I picked him up, and took him to the house, that day I just stayed long enough to see his reunion with the kids and then went to see my mother. Came back home and cooked supper for all of us, and then took him back to the grocery store. Repeat for a few weeks until he got a car, and then he would just come over on his own on Saturdays. Tried the second therapy session, found out it was an individual session, they did let him come in with me, but of course nothing much was accomplished, so we decided to pull over and talk for a while after. Discussed our communication issues and it seemed to be helpful.
At some point in November, I asked him to meet up and talk. It didn't go very well. I asked him about something he had said on Thanksgiving, that he thought his whole family had turned their back on him. I said I know you mean your father, but what else do you mean? The response was "You...you kicked me out". (only point where he hasn't taken accountability I think) He also stated he was in too deep now. (Took that as he was falling in love with her, my therapist mentioned it could mean he doesn't know how to dig himself out) Confirmed she had put a down payment on a car for him, and she had paid for the first week in the hotel for him. I asked him to read a letter before he left for work that he had written me a few months after we got married that basically said we would always compromise and get through everything together. He was crying when he left for work.
After that I stopped reaching out to check on him/chat unless it was about the kids/household issues. Any of those times usually ends up in a little bit of chatting, but there's been no other reaching out on either side.
Usually the Saturdays and holidays that he's here are fairly natural besides the awkwardness of there being no affection, but a few weeks ago I was frustrated and kept going outside by myself to pretty much mope, and he finally came out. I asked him if he really felt I turned my back on him by kicking him out and he said "Not necessarily, no". I said I didn't understand what I did, and he said "I told you, you didn't do anything wrong" I said no, I mean the night before you left, I thought you wanted to go. He kind of just shut down at that point. He then said he wasn't ready to say everything that needed to be said appropriately and for the first time since DDay I cried in front of him, to the point that I lost strength in my legs and he had to hold me up. The rest of the times have been back to normal. He's still staying in the hotel I think, which is right by her apartment. I have no clue what kind of relationship that they have, because he stated she didn't want a relationship, never expected him to leave me, nothing like that.
OW's ex did eventually reach out and that first day we talked for 2 1/2 hours. He mentioned how hard it was to see them together every day. They come in together everyday and take breaks together, because no one else there will speak to them. He said they both look completely miserable and even mentioned a few days ago that they still do. He told me the first time we talked that she had told him about WH while they were dating, that she had gone after a married man specifically because she didn't want a relationship.
I've had a few sessions of therapy and am doing a lot of praying, self help books, reading stories like on here, etc. I'm doing okay, but still pretty firm that I want to work things out. I'm not quite sure if I've completely made that clear to him or not, but if he does try to file I'm going to make couples counseling a condition, for one thing it'll either give me closure or help us work it out, and for another it will ensure he gets the counseling he needs. I can clearly see the things that broke him, and feel as though some things can be fixed and other things can be healed.

I am sure this comes across as cruel but I want you to be realistic. He is having a great time. He is having sex with someone 16 yrs younger than him. He is miserable because no one is saying "Way to go, Big Guy". They are judging him as a cheater. But he has not let her go.

Right now you are doing something called the "pick me" dance. He has chosen her. Whether or not they last should no longer be your concern. This site is about getting out of, surviving, infidelity. You are not doing that. You are standing still while he, with cruelty, lets you hurt and weep.

See a lawyer. Then see a dr about any anxiety you feel. You can get medical help until you no longer need it. In the meantime try to eat healthy, including protein drinks. Get plenty of sleep and stay hydrated.

And come here to unload.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 8:38 PM, Saturday, December 30th]

Your H is still taking breaks with ow. If that's the only contact they have, it's too much. If your H were interested in getting back together, I suspect he'd dump ow. He feels sad and lonely because she's the only co-worker who will spend time with him? That should be a sign to him that he effed up badly, not that it's OK to be with ow. (I won't write 'cow' b/c I don't want to insult cows.)

I'm also concerned about you, as Cooley is. I don't think it's healthy for you to even suspect that you turned your back on your H. He turned his back on you. He wants to live at home while he's still in contact with ow. That's crazy.

Couldn't he find a way to get to your home on his own on Saturdays? Couldn't he find an airbnb on his own? The answer is: he's an adult. It's up to him to figure out how to live after he's betrayed you.

Are you OK with his inability to choose between you and ow? If you're willing to give him more time, OK ... but I recommend practicing the (simplified) 180 - see https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/598080/the-simplified-180/?ap=1. I've bumped it, so it should be on the 1st page of this forum now.

You are the prize here. He's not. I know that keeping your family together is what you want; I did, too. But it worked for me only because my W wanted it, too, and because we both did a lot of work. Your H can change from cheater to good partner, but you're the prize.

Oh I absolutely don't feel like I turned my back on him. I am just giving him time and healing myself in the process. I'm not exactly standing still, moving on with my life, but not romantically, even though a few people keep encouraging that. The thought makes me sick. I do feel a little in limbo because there's things Id like to do but can't because of finances. I've only started a career in the past year, have always been a SAHM/housewife except for a few short jobs to get us through. He is helping financially enough to get us by but I'm looking into a second job so I can have the money to do things I enjoy like fixing up the house and I'm starting to get an interest in changing my wardrobe lol.

I would concur with the previous poster that you are doing the pick me dance. It may seem completely reasonable to you, but being a gracious, understanding human being comes across as weak and unattractive to a wayward. You have become his second or third choice, and you deserve to be your partner's first choice.

Like you, I got the ILYBINILWY speech. Man it felt good to give my STBXWW the IDLYAINILWY speech. The D is for don't and N is for not. Funny thing, as I detached and no longer gave a fuck about her, she suddenly found me more desirable. Problem is, as I detoxed from the relationship and got my bearings, I found I had grown and she was no longer desirable to me. Thus, I was able to move on and heal.

The advice on thiscsite, while often given gently, can seem harsh to those that would really prefer advice more in keeping with the direction they would like to go. I would advise against flat out rejection of anything posters say. Take it in, weigh it, consider it. The aggregate wisdom and experience of the members here was, after all, purchased at great personal cost.

You sound like a really decent person. I hope you find your way.

This will sound harsh, but the goal is to get Coffeelove out of infidelity. So here goes.

He's a cake eater. Wants OW but still wants to keep you in place for plan B fall back in case things go south with OW. Big tell - it sounds like he's living in a hotel or living w/OW rather than looking for a more sustainable living situation. Living in a hotel can get costly! Gently, are you sure he's not shacking up with OW? Yes, agree with Cooley2here, he's having a ball eating cake and having two women dance for him. OW is kicking in $$ to supplement his new single life style - you haven't pulled the plug and filed for D. He has you to chauffeur and cater his Saturday visits with the kids in the family home! He selfishly continues the Saturday full service visits when Sunday visits would be more helpful for you AND the kids because you work on Sundays. What a jerk. Bet you also did all the Thanksgiving/Holiday cooking/present/buying and all he had to do was show up. So why wouldn't he continue eating cake? This infidelity limbo is working just fine for him, thank you very much.

Coffeelove, IMO he understands full well you would reconcile IF he's willing to do the necessary hard work. It sounds like you DO want to reconcile, but he's busy eating cake with OW. The conversation when he said "he wasn't ready to say everything that needed to be said appropriately" is another cake eater tell. Sounds like at that moment you were ready to negotiate his return, but he made it clear he wasn't willing to do what's needed to begin reconciliation. 'Cause he wants to keep the infidelity limbo working for him as long as he can - keep on gobbling that cake. For R to truly work, both partners need to be 100% all-in on recreating a new marriage. After the betrayal of infidelity the old M is dead. And, the betrayer needs to be all in 100% to do whatever it takes to heal the BS. And, he must remediate his thinking - work hard to change HIS weaknesses. In a nutshell, he needs to drive the R bus. So far, you're the only partner that wants to "work things out." You're willing to stay in place as Plan B just in case he pulls his head out of his posterior and realizes that YOU are the prize.

You are not plan B. You're his wife of 20 years for heaven's sake! The first step towards getting you out of this infidelity limbo is to put a stop to his cake eating at your expense. A gentle suggestion - no more chauffeured and catered Saturday visits. If he wants to see the kids he can pick them up in the car OW is supposedly financing and take them out. Consequences! Talk to a few lawyers about what separation or divorce look like. Knowledge is power. Doesn't mean you have to D right this second, but looking into D or separation is the next logical step when a betrayer refuses to break it off with AP. He's helping out financially now, but how long can you assume that will continue? Kudos on getting your life together without him, starting a new career etc. Rather than getting a second job, how would it look if a codified separation or D agreement assured child support and maybe even some spousal support since you've mostly been SAHM? Talk to a lawyer about all of that. Soon. Hotel living, car payments, wineing and dining AP etc. can add up. Seems prudent to separate your finances, get credit in your name alone and so on just to be on the safe side. Best wishes to you Coffeelove!

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 6:00 PM, Wednesday, January 3rd]

He's not getting the chauffered visits since he got the car. Part of the Saturday visits is that it's also his only day off, he works 6 10 hour shifts a week. It's definitely the hotel, the payment comes out of our joint account. There's just too many questions at the moment as to where his head is at. One question he can't seem to answer is if he didn't plan to leave me, why did he leave when I found out. They had never wanted to be in a relationship. Her paying for things could be out of guilt I suppose but I can't seem to have a vision of her feeling guilty. He's shut out everyone at the moment, childhood friends, army buddies, family, etc. I think he's actually helping more than I would officially get in child support honestly, on top of getting random things we need on the way here Saturday. Our heater went out last night and he stopped and got a few space heaters and a different filter to see if it would help for example. He's not letting me help him with things, so there's some growth there I suppose. He's never had to figure out how to pay bills, take care of himself, etc. I told him a week after he left that I felt like he was punishing himself too much and he said maybe, but maybe not enough.

There's just too many questions at the moment as to where his head is at. One question he can't seem to answer is if he didn't plan to leave me, why did he leave when I found out.

I'm not surprised that he doesn't want to answer that one, because from what we know about cheaters here at SI, it sure sounds like he wants to play around without being accountable to his spouse. He can come and go as he pleases, act like a bachelor, pay for it all out of your joint account, meanwhile you're holding the bag for the familial responsibilities.

I'll be honest with you (and you can read my profile by clicking the little person icon in the upper right hand corner), but like so many here, I've been there, dealing with a WS who didn't want to make up his mind. As you'll see in my profile, I was absolutely willing to make that decision for him. He would have been more than happy to continue doddering in self-deluded confusion, except that I made it clear that I was NOT "an option". He couldn't have both. I wasn't going to be hanging around waiting like a wallflower at the eighth grade dance. I just knew intuitively that if he kept stringing me along, the damage would become insurmountable... and the damage was already pretty damned bad.

Your WH is going to try to blame you for so many things. It's just Cheating 101. Things like "you kicked me out" are classic DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender). DARVO doesn't have to be loud and aggressive, right? The bottom line is that it's highly unlikely that you could have forced him out of the home in most jurisdictions. He had choices. He could have broken it off with the OW, refused to leave the home, engaged in immediate efforts to repair the marriage and remediate his poor character. If he felt like it was a matter of respecting your wishes, he could have created some kind of accountability system so you knew where he was at all times. He could have begged you every day to come home. He's where he is because THAT's where he wants to be. The moping might look really authentic, might even BE authentic, but it's not so important to him that he's making changes.

You're getting words. What you need are actions.

He's not letting me help him with things, so there's some growth there I suppose. He's never had to figure out how to pay bills, take care of himself, etc.

Dear Coffeelove, I'm gonna push back on this statement a bit.So not only is he a cake eater, he's a man child as well. HOW has he demonstrated growth? He's been living in a hotel for what, TWO MONTHS now?

Housekeeping picks his dirty socks up off the floor and scrubs the toilet, changes the sheets, takes out the trash.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to pay a weekly hotel bill slipped under the door.

Unless there's a kitchenette in the hotel room, he's been eating take out/in restaurants/OW's house for every meal. No meal planning, grocery shopping or cooking - or clean up.

Except Saturdays, when he has the freedom to waltz into a home with a stocked refrigerator and the luxury of your home cooked dinners.

Is he bringing his laundry to your house on Saturdays LOL?

And he's never had to deal with the realities of being SINGLE PARENT. He gets to play bachelor while you do ALL the adulting around the house to make sure the kids have a roof over their heads, a bed to sleep in with clean sheets, clean clothes to wear, food to eat, and on and on and on. On Saturdays he gets to play nice family man but you're the responsible one that provides the stable and safe home environment where he comes and goes as he pleases.

Yeah, his paycheck helps with FINANCIAL security, but surely the hotel bills and all that takeout is putting a strain on the family budget. Rather than setting boundaries with him around finances you're considering taking on a second job to cover the shortfall. Dear Coffeelove, you're allowed to say enough is enough. Separate your finances ASAP. His living expenses are HIS expenses. It's not your responsibility to pay for his easy hotel and takeout lifestyle.

He wants to be a bachelor, well, how about he steps up and faces the realities of being a single parent as well? No more family visits at YOUR house, etc. He wants to spend time with the kids, it's on his dime and in his living space.

He LEFT you and the kids. Rather than be a responsible adult and finding an AirBnB room or a month to month rental, he continues his man child ways by CHOOSING to live in a hotel fancy free. As Camomile Tea pointed out, he's right where he wants to be. Is this status quo okay with you?

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 8:54 PM, Sunday, December 31st]

Of course it's not okay with me, but I am absolutely adamant that he be able to spend as much time with the kids as possible, and that hotel is definitely not safe for them to be at. I've decided to start finding something to do on Saturdays while he's here, yall are right that having the homecooked meals and stuff is a little too much give for me. I agree that there's not much definite growth but his day to day life is something he's never had to do on his own, and the growth I meant was not calling me to find out how to get to his check stubs, make dr's appointments or even as far as going to them on his own. The most he's done things like that was in the army, because they pretty much make them do those things alone. The growth I need is recognizing what caused our disconnect in the first place, but he's barely acknowledged that his job is the main cause. He's terrified to leave his job for a new one, and it really hurt that he was more scared of that than losing me, but true that's its probably because he knows I'll always be here. The boundary of being willing to and showing effort of getting a new job is very firm for me. I do realize that it sucks, because we haven't had a very stable life financially before and him having a job for 5 years at a place with the turnover rate of underwear is a big deal to him, but he's going to have to realize that there's no balance. Our relationship was always 10 times stronger when we were busting through the financial issues together too, but that hasn't clicked.
I'd like to remind him that there was less disconnect when he was in Iraq for a year and while he was over the road than when he's been at this hellhole of a job, but I'm not initiating any more talks.
I am a bit mopey today realizing that he won't be coming home at midnight, he's always rushed home early on New years eve to be with me at midnight.

Sorry if my last post sounded judgmental. I see a lot of my own former "cool wife" behaviors in your situation, so felt comfortable pointing them out as I see them. Even PO'd on your behalf because some of the things you describe feel all too familiar. For example, your husband wasn't available much because he works 60+ (!) hours a week. Yes indeed that work load can be a marriage killer. My H traveled for work so was gone A LOT - at least 9 months out of the year with a few weeks home now and then. It was kinda like military deployment because he spent so much time away. It was my job to do ALL the adulting, bill paying, cooking, cleaning, and child rearing etc. because even when he was home between gigs he was "so tired." And I enabled his abdication of ALL responsibility because he "worked so hard" and it was simpler for me to take care of it rather than attempt sharing responsibility with an absentee partner. All this while I was working full time! AND, I put on a happy face and pretended I was "cool" with it while I juggled all those roles. Spoiler alert: I wasn't cool with it.

Post D-day all the unwritten marital agreements that served his needs were null and void. Cool wife has retired. We had to create a new marriage founded on mutual respect and shared RESPONSIBILITY or I was out of there. There's a reason BoundaryBuilder is my SI moniker Post D-day He stepped up to the plate and reclaimed his abdicated responsibility, so here we are five years later. Is your H capable of finally growing up? I dunno....so far his choices don't bode well for creating a healthy new MUTUAL marriage in the aftermath of his betrayal. And, please don't let him DARVO you about the situation. His choices were his to make.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 7:37 PM, Wednesday, January 3rd]

Oh I absolutely don't feel like I turned my back on him.

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Coffeelove, maybe you SHOULD.

Good luck. His behavior is typical Cake eater.