SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I found earlier today a piece of paper where for fun, my ex WS years ago had written out our top 10 relationship needs. His were:

Physical affection
Sex
Appreciation
Nurturing
Autonomy
Shared goals
Intellectual stimulation
Honest communication (lol)
Financial security
Playfulness and fun

As I read that it struck me that in terms of needs, that might be someone who'd be unfaithful in a long distsmce situation. Autonomy? Sex? Appreciation?

Hmm..

Mine were

Fidelity
Emotional connection
Shared responsibility for life
Deep devotion
Physical affection
Adventure and spontaneity
Playfulness and fun
Intellectual stimulation
Honest communication
Security and commitment

We had some crossover, but it reads like mine were definitely more about commitment and devotion to each other, whereas his aren't.

It also makes me sad to read how nuch infidelity would have hurt me, considering what my most important needs were - such as fidelity, commitment and security.

I was pondering over whether a factor in being capable of cheating is fidelity just not being that important to you.

Oh, I think fidelity is very much important to a cheating spouse, in most cases. Just not their fidelity. They very much expect their own spouse to be faithful, and,in many cases, they expect it from their AP as well.

they expect it from their AP as well.

Yep. My H was PISSED when he found out that the AP had been having an EA with his coworker at the same time that she was having a PA with him. Gotta admit I felt some schadenfreude on that one.

As I read that it struck me that in terms of needs, that might be someone who'd be unfaithful in a long distsmce situation. Autonomy? Sex? Appreciation?

I'm big on autonomy too, but dang, son. His top 5 are pretty telling.

I have to be honest: I think my exWS would be PISSED too. I recall a couple of years ago we briefly seperated and I went for a coffee with an ex and he went absolutely insane with stress.

However, because he can compartmentalise and so on, I honestly domt believe he'd have suffered the same emotional pain as me if I'd had an A.

I think it was BraveSirRobin who wrote a post a long time ago when and said she thought when she "picked" her spouse that she thought he'd won and therefore why wasn't the AP entitled to comfort?

My WS was a bit like that, and I think if I had an A he wouldn't be completely destroyed as long as I picked him.

I am just wondering if fidelity is more important to some than others. I know for me personally; fidelity, deep devotion, loyalty and so on are really key parts of what I need in life.

I'm big on autonomy too, but dang, son. His top 5 are pretty telling.

They are right????

I noted none of his needs have anything to do with real commitment to another person (aside from shared future vision).

The rest is sort of things he just gets given by someone.

Mine were a lot more about unity.

Hellfire is spot on again. Fidelity is extremely important to the WS, just everyone else’s. My WW was absolutely destroyed when she found out that AP wasn’t faithful to her (even though she wasn’t to him or me lol) and she was furious that I would even consider D and or seeing other people after DDAY. Still trying to wrap my head around it. She still insists that D isn’t a possibility, and will still get mad and lash out at me at times that I was debating on a hall pass essentially. (Im not anymore and haven’t even considered it since the early times, but occasionally she will just bring it up).

That’s mentally, it’s all about what keeps them feeling secure or filling the void or whatever it is that caused the A.

I am betting, if you had gotten with someone else after your DDAY, or made it a condition of R that you got to before R it would have sent him over the edge.

I think it was BraveSirRobin who wrote a post a long time ago when and said she thought when she "picked" her spouse that she thought he'd won and therefore why wasn't the AP entitled to comfort?

My H was like that for a hot minute. Sure, she's entitled to comfort, but not from you, dumbass! (No offense to BSR.)

What is this with being possessive or jealous over the AP? what's the motivator for that?

Cognitive dissonance. Ego.

I don't think my H was necessarily jealous; I think he was angry that he had been made a fool. He knows now that he did that to himself, but back then I think he thought that she was all in on being with him if he left me when she was actually still trolling for anyone who would give her attention. As was her right, really, because he wasn't all in with HER either.

It's so crazy that WSs get so offended when they perceive that someone has wronged them when they've been crapping all over everyone. They're cool with being the crapper, but don't even think of making them the crappee. lol

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 10:18 PM, Friday, September 22nd]

You are right. Not everyone needs fidelity.

But you cannot pledge to be monogamous and enter into a marriage pledging honesty and fidelity AND then decide to change the rules after the fact.

I am just wondering if fidelity is more important to some than others.

Maybe, my guess is that he probably took your fidelity for granted when making the list. You (it turns out for good reason) obviously didn't. The scarcity principle in behavioral psychology suggests that people tend to place the most value on things that they perceive is rare.

I'm big on autonomy too, but dang, son. His top 5 are pretty telling.

Yep. His list reads like a list of "what can you do for me". I'm pretty sure you WS wanted a wife, but cared less about being a husband.

What is this with being possessive or jealous over the AP? what's the motivator for that?

Cognitive dissonance. Ego.

Yep. APs are like mirrors for how the Wayward wants to see themselves. They make the Wayward feel sexy, exciting, desirable, important, and *SPECIAL*. Most As are just one giant ego stroke. The AP showing interest elsewhere is a threat to that.

No you can't.

I guess I'm just wondering if that different set of needs might make some people more likely to treat fidelity less seriously (whatever the vowed).

I remember when this first happened to me, my best friend said to me "It's nothing. You were apart for months. He was drinking and living a seperate life, he loves you and all she was, was a glorified wank"

I remember thinking that was a crazy way to look at it.

This week her husband told her that he was having an affair and was in love with OW. I mean this was about a million times worse because they weren't long distance, they're married, they have young kids and he's saying he's in LOVE with the AP. Who he's known for 25 minutes.

That would kill me.

And yes, she was devastated, but nothing like I was. She says she wants him back and she's agreed to live in the house with him while he dates the AP.

So obviously something is really different between me and my friend....

Yep. APs are like mirrors for how the Wayward wants to see themselves. They make the Wayward feel sexy, exciting, desirable, important, and *SPECIAL*. Most As are just one giant ego stroke. The AP showing interest elsewhere is a threat to that.

I struggle to understand this psychologically ;) the only people who's opinions I care about are my loved ones.

I agree with you MCC. I so struggle with this because I pretty much only care what my kids think of me. I want my friends to think I’m nice and conscientious about plans but this idea of trying to seem important is just like huh?

AP would always tell my husband what a good doctor he was. Like really? That was a come on. That was something you needed to hear? BTW he is a really good doctor I just would never have imagined that was a prelude to romance. He said he loved feeling like « a big shot ». It was pretty classic mid life crisis. Bought a sports car three months before the A. Upgraded his boat. When that is the headspace they are in there just is no way to fill that bucket.

I thoughts your top 10 relationship need thing was fascinating. It is probably pretty accurate for many WSs.

I guess I'm just wondering if that different set of needs might make some people more likely to treat fidelity less seriously (whatever the vowed).

My totally non-scientific gut feeling on this is that there are two different types of cheaters in this respect.

The first group doesn't actually have fidelity as a core value, at least not for themselves, and probably NEVER DID. They may expect it from their partners. They might SAY they value fidelity but the only thing keep them faithful is consequences. Its the same group of people who might loot during a riot, rape/pillage during an uprising, cheat on their taxes when it's unlikely they will be caught, etc. The thing that keeps them in line is the fear of consequences. They might feel bad they hurt you, but they probably never would have stopped on their own. This group of people are probably not good candidates for R as there are no moral safeguards preventing them from doing it the next time.

The other group (which I believe is more common) are cheaters who DO actually value fidelity as a core value and never believed they would cheat. This group is more complicated, and for whatever reason - usually a screwed up cocktail of poor boundaries, FOO patterns, internalized shame, unhappiness (that they have likely externalized rather than taking ownership of), resentment, an ego that needs to be propped by by external validation, and some impressive mental gymnastics - have lied to themselves enough in order to create a permission structure to cheat. They still tend to believe cheating is wrong but justify their on the basis that this is a loophole because of XYZ and I deserve to be happy, or this is a loophole BECAUSE ITS TRUE LOVE, or UNMET NEEDS, blah blah blah. They keep this going by some more mental gymnastics or by compartmentalizing their behavior when they are at home. Because these people are lying to themselves (and typically everyone around them), they tend to be more complicated than the 'honest' cheaters. That said, I think that if they are willing to put their ego and their shame aside and are motivated and committed to doing so, they have the potential to actually be redeemed.

I struggle to understand this psychologically ;) the only people who's opinions I care about are my loved ones.

This has been huge to me, almost from day 1. Like, why on god’s green earth did she give to shits about what that loser thought about her? I can’t relate to that at all. I appreciate a good compliment from someone who knows me and can say something good and accurate about me. Beyond that? I’ve been complimented out in public. I’ve smiled and just moved on. Just cannot relate.

This has been huge to me, almost from day 1. Like, why on god’s green earth did she give to shits about what that loser thought about her? I can’t relate to that at all. I appreciate a good compliment from someone who knows me and can say something good and accurate about me. Beyond that? I’ve been complimented out in public. I’ve smiled and just moved on. Just cannot relate.

I think it's impossible to relate because you don't have a need for external validation. Some people (like your WS and mine) easily feel bad / criticised/ rejected and feel better when people like them or offer them admiration. It doesn't matter so much who. Maybe to some extent that's the core of almost every cheater.

[This message edited by MintChocChip at 2:21 PM, Saturday, September 23rd]

Our Daughter’s first H was a serial cheater. He was caught in many A’s. My daughter left him and moved in with us. My W was very bitter and angry with him. She thought of him as a lowlife.

After our Dday, 3 years later, I told her she is no different than XSil. She was pissed, she couldn’t wrap her head around that because somehow she was different. completely disagreed, she was special. During her healing and recovery she came around to that realization but it shows that cheaters think they are special and what they are doing isn’t like what other cheaters do.

cheaters think they are special and what they are doing isn’t like what other cheaters do.

oh completely true. Bitter pill to swallow

Don’t even try to understand the cheater mindset.

It will make you crazy!

Everyone else has "affairs" but this is "true love" and all that soulmate crap.

I knew immediately my H was having a midlife crisis affair. Classic signs including wanting a D after knowing her about 5 months and being with her for 3 or so.

It’s so cliche — all of it.

I remember my H telling me that I didn’t marry him for love - I married him for another reason. It was so beyond ludicrous that I literally laughed out loud. He was looking for any excuse to justify his affairs and convinced himself that his stupid made up justifications were the truth.

Cheaters are nothing special. Except in their own minds.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 5:53 AM, Sunday, September 24th]