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Topic is Sleeping.

 Stillconfused2022 (original poster member #82457) posted at 11:11 PM on Wednesday, September 6th, 2023

Feeling in a bit of a crisis…been shaking which hasn’t happened in a long time. My husband is over in our in-law house writing the timeline. I feel like I’m gonna throw up. Part of me wants to run over and put him out of his misery—not with a gun, just telling him he doesn’t actually have to do it. But I know he has to do it. He has been promising it for 9 months. Cheating was almost 8 years ago but only came clean that it was physical last summer. I had always just thought they were inappropriately friendly. I’m not nervous of what he will say because I highly highly doubt he will reveal more now. We have gone over the extensive details zillions of times. But the idea of him writing this is somehow so incredibly upsetting. Was it for anyone else? I didn’t realize how scary it would be.

I asked him to try not to write « we » whenever possible. I realize that is kind of pathetic. How can he not write « we » and actually tell the story. I’m just horrified at the prospect of reading sentences that start with « we ». I’m horrified at the prospect of reading it at all. Do some BS not actually read it?

posts: 393   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8806752

InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 11:18 PM on Wednesday, September 6th, 2023

Just big hugs. You’ll be ok.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2185   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8806754

annb ( member #22386) posted at 11:43 PM on Wednesday, September 6th, 2023

I wish I knew about a timeline when I discovered my WH affair.

I wanted every little detail that he could think of, it took years and the gift of PTSD for me.

You deserve the truth, I wouldn't be scared, I'd be curious and thankful that the truth will finally be out in the open.

posts: 12178   ·   registered: Jan. 10th, 2009   ·   location: Northeast
id 8806757

leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 5:34 AM on Thursday, September 7th, 2023

Why don't you write your timeline around the A or dday? That way, you can compare notes. My WXH thought he did a great job on his timeline, but my timeline was much more detailed and helped him to realize how abnormal his actions were.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3570   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8806774

Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 12:15 PM on Thursday, September 7th, 2023

Maybe get one major message to him – that is if I’m right…

I have a feeling that the true pain isn’t that it was physical, but rather that he kept it a secret for 8 years.

I have this theory – or maybe only a thought – that had you discovered this was physical at your d-day all those years ago and if you two had committed to reconciling… the damage caused would be exponentially less than discovering NOW. This is the damage of trickle-truth.

So maybe let him know this before he hands over the timeline:
The REAL damage is the holding back of truth. Much more so than the physical aspect. So if he writes in the timeline that it was only 1 x and he didn’t get an erection (or whatever he might use to minimize) and then you find messages indicating it was 2x and the best sex ever… THAT truth would cause more damage – not because of the frequency or alleged quality but because he STILL doesn’t trust you with the truth.

That by being totally accountable and vulnerable he’s showing you he trusts you. As we all know trust is the first thing that leaves a relationship at d-day. By showing you that he trusts you with the truth he’s also opening up that you can eventually rebuild trust to him.

Regarding a timeline from 8 years ago…
Don’t expect it to be totally correct. Not that he might be lying, but rather he might not remember correctly if they met at the motel or the office or if it started on the first or the fifth. Memory makes a terrible witness.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12479   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8806784

 Stillconfused2022 (original poster member #82457) posted at 1:50 PM on Thursday, September 7th, 2023

InkHulk: thank you. I appreciate your kind words. I was of course closely watching your timeline situation to try to foresee any potential pitfalls about to come my way. I sympathize with your situation because sometimes it seems like you’re put in the position of defending your spouse here and I sometimes find myself hesitant to say too much regarding my situation because I don’t want to see my husband as a villain. I know he’s tried

LeaF: you are right that there’s likely to be a big gap between the level of detail I would provide versus what he may provide. I imagine the process may need to be somewhat iterative. I want him to make it detailed so I don’t have to put myself through that. In the fall of last year i could have written a thirty page single spaced timeline off the top of my head including dates and times. I just don’t want to in any way « do this for him ». I need him to do it without me micromanaging which I always do.

AnnB: I know many would be grateful for getting the full truth. I am more ambivalent about it. My life has been ravaged by this and I just selfishly don’t want to be knocked off my very slow upward trajectory. I feel like I’ve given up too much. If I thought I could calmly and maturely digest new horrific information I would be more amenable. I guess I don’t completely trust myself to do that and I have no additional emotional reserves to weather a new storm.

Bigger: Yes in a way this is true. The worst devastation is certainly that the way he has handled the process has greatly increased the pain. I have to pull back from bitterness over this. Even after « fully » coming clean last summer he tried to deny a bottle of tequila of a particular flavor was not saved from one of their hookups in the office. He almost let me drink it before finally admitting its origins because as I was pouring it suddenly came into my head that this was the bottle he had referenced buying back then. After me hammering with questions he still denied then later admitted. When asked for an explanation he adamantly said it was because he didn’t want to waste $25 of tequila. He makes a lot of money. It made me feel less than worthless.

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 1:52 PM, Thursday, September 7th]

posts: 393   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8806798

Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 8:04 AM on Saturday, September 9th, 2023

I wish I knew about a timeline when I discovered my WH affair.

Same here. My FWW's A was 20 years ago. After we started working on R she found her way here. I avoided the place hoping that giving her space here would help her clear her foggy head. Besides, I was so humiliated that I had a hard time about sharing my experience with anyone but my therapist.

So she learned all about the timeline process and often recommended it to others here. But she never offered it to me. She had a convenient excuse since I had already given up getting answers and tried to focus on getting on with life. I imagine she rationalized that it was better not to reopen old wounds. But I'm sure that she was also happy to have dodged that bullet. Because she hadn't really given me the full story.

Why don't you write your timeline around the A or dday? That way, you can compare notes. My WXH thought he did a great job on his timeline, but my timeline was much more detailed and helped him to realize how abnormal his actions were.

I really recommend this. This is what I did when I finally learned about timelines and asked my FWW for one. I did my own timeline and told her that I would share it after she provided the first cut of hers. I knew that I would be much more motivated to fix events in time and I had access to old calendars and emails that could help with that. She had spent 20 years trying to forget.

Doing my own timeline finally helped me realize that I had never really freed myself from the blame that she and our MC had piled on me. Even though she had eventually said that I was blameless, I always repeated our MC's statement that we shared responsibility for the state of the marriage. And like many trauma victims I could never accept that something so terrible could have happened to me if I wasn't somehow responsible.

What my timeline showed me was that she had really started to check out of our marriage years before. I didn't abandon her has she had claimed, she abandoned me. It seems so obvious in retrospect, but gas-lighting is very effective when you're going through trauma.

You're also correct to insist on language that accepts responsibility. My FWW's first draft of her timeline was vague and full passive verbs and "he" this and "he" that. I wasn't having that.

[This message edited by Seeking2Forgive at 8:05 AM, Saturday, September 9th]

Me: 62, BS -- Her: 61, FWS -- Dday: 11/15/03 -- Married 37 yrs -- Reconciled

posts: 553   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2021
id 8807109

 Stillconfused2022 (original poster member #82457) posted at 3:54 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

It’s not going so well. I m getting this vibe like he is doing me this huge favor by writing this thing. It is making me angry. But, it is possible I am projecting that onto him. I am not sure. I thought he had been working on it for four hours yesterday in his office. Thought he might want to take a break and eat as it was dinner time. Came in to his office to see about dinner. He was good for dinner at first but as he realized I thought he’d been working on it his face changed. He definitely had done nothing. Not sure if he was working out, doing his professional work, reading CNN, who knows? But definitely not the timeline. Not sure if my face changed and that triggered him. It is sometimes hard to tell who is triggering who. He got defensive. My voice changed. My daughter called from the other room « he guys what’s wrong? » she heard our voices change i guess. I kind of fled upstairs. Waited half hour, he didn’t come up to discuss. So i went to little house to read alone etc. He called and seemed angry at me, sent me a text saying I didn’t need to « check in on him » on this. I could tell he was angry and the thought of him writing these awful events while angry at me felt worse than anything. He told me to try to relax and imagine he was just going to study, i should eat and watch a movie. I felt patronized but maybe he was trying to be nice. I stayed away till 11pm. We slept in the same bed. We are both trigger happy anxious wrecks while he is doing this. OR I am just anxious about it and he is fine but guilty. Not sure.

Sorry for posting so much detail. I feel like a self involved teenager. But…. Writing this out did make me feel calmer. So thank you for letting me document my process. I may be just chasing shadows here. It seemed liked a repeat of his behavior during A. He used to act like it was sooooo difficult for him to have to fire his assistant. Or arrange her departure would be more accurate. He seemed to have so much sympathy for himself and none for me and the chlldren. Now he seems like he is acting like this is hard for him (he’s sooooo busy, not enough time to get everything done, etc). But uncaring about the way it must feel to have your husband writing down these awful facts.

I guess I realize now why we were both putting this off. It’s very stressful.

Anyway, just me venting. Thanks for listening.

posts: 393   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8807204

HardKnocks ( member #70957) posted at 4:01 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

I suggest you stop beating yourself up for what seems to be a normal reaction to your husband's reluctance to write the timeline, and all the excuses that come along with that.

Be kind to yourself.


posts: 557   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2019
id 8807206

 Stillconfused2022 (original poster member #82457) posted at 4:11 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

Seeking to forgive:

Thank you for your response. I am sorry that you didn’t get the process that you deserved at the time it all happened. Also that you missed out on the detail and accuracy that could have given you more closure. I am glad your wife found SI. I imagine that must have helped a lot. Although it sounds like she kept her own blind spot around her own need to do a timeline. I totally hear you about writing your own timeline — about the part that she had actuallly checked out on you. My husband seems to have come to that same conclusion and it is accurate. He was never home, he defined himself by work, he yelled and raged about kitty litter and misbehaving children whenever he was around. So i came to not like him so much. I turned away in a sense. Did that have anything to do with his choice to cheat. Maybe. I just can’t write it out all now. I’ve done it and deleted it many times in the past. Right now i don’t have it in me. I’m glad you did. I’m sorry you felt shame about someone else’s actions. I blew it all up in front of everyone at his office and everyone in our small community and our families (except the kids) had a ringside seat. Somehow I was oblivious to the amount of embarrassment I was probably creating for our family. I just didn’t care. Also i didn’t see any other way to shake him out of his fog. Once everyone knew the process of getting rid of her went from months of hemming and hawing to a few days of HR taking over and sending her packing with severence. It was a necessary evil of sorts. I think men are harder on themselves in these situations—obviously a generalization and not always true.

What you described in your trauma is something they talk about in cognitive processing therapy (CPT) for veterans with PTSD. They call it the JUST WORLD HYPOTHESIS. It is the belief that good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people. We all have this belief from birth and it makes us feel safer in the world. It works really well until something bad happens to you. Then it sucks. Then you have to rearrange your whole world view. I am sorry to sound like I am telling you something I’m sure you already know.

I didn’t really tell myself much that it was my fault he cheated. Mostly because my dad cheated on my mom and I knew for sure my mom was so good. Or at least by far good enough to not deserve that. I always knew it was my dad’s fault. But I DO THIS TO MYSELF ABOUT RECOVERY. I am doing it wrong. If I was more balanced I wouldn’t get so upset. If I wasn’t so broken I could move on more quickly. My despair is making him act mean to me. My insecurities are making him defensive. My anger over the issue of infidelity made him lie to me for 7 years. Whatever…. I blame myself. Always. Sadly, knowing that I am doing this does not seem to help me to actually stop doing it.

Ugh and ugh. I would love to hear more about your situation. Best to you and your wife.

posts: 393   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8807208

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 4:15 PM on Sunday, September 10th, 2023

You say he's trying?

I see lying for years..anger..defensiveness...and not doing the work needed.

I also see you being too nice, and making excuses.

Our field of dreams,engulfed in fire..and I'll still see it,till the day I die..

posts: 6773   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8807211

 Stillconfused2022 (original poster member #82457) posted at 5:22 AM on Monday, September 11th, 2023

Thank you HellFire, I do see your point. I see and have seen the lying. I also see the anger and defensiveness. Going to take a look at the timeline and see if things are really improving

posts: 393   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8807297

 Stillconfused2022 (original poster member #82457) posted at 5:37 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2023

Took HellFires comments to heart (in combination with InkHulk’s reassurance it would be okay). Did a lot of ignoring/giving space. He approached me to go out for coffee and lunch.

He updated me on the progress he made. He put in several hours on the timeline. It lowered my anxiety a lot. He finished about a third. He was transparent and introspective. No defensiveness, definitely no anger. After about an hour we left and walking home he could tell I was a little off—just the topic pretty triggering.

He had us sit under an awning and we talked about an hour more in the rain. He was very supportive and kind. No offering false reassurance but just kind of listening and validating. Talking about our future, still hoping we have one. It was really nice. He knows he has more work to do on the defensiveness and with his therapist. They have been doing repair work on his relationship with our daughter who definitely blamed him for everything that happened. They came up with a nightly hug for her which he was scared to ask for but did last week. She has been letting him give her the nightly hug and she even came in proactively to ask for the nightly hug last night which he was incredibly happy about. I’m not saying we are all there yet by any stretch but there have been some positive signs.

posts: 393   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8807339

 Stillconfused2022 (original poster member #82457) posted at 9:55 PM on Wednesday, September 20th, 2023

Not going too well. Progress so slow. It has been over a week since he has done anything on this. I’m not sure how this is supposed to go but dragging it out does not feel good. I am putting aside any thoughts and feelings I have that I might normally turn to him for support in order to allow him time to work on it. But instead he is getting other things done. Yes he is busy but some of it is by choice. He took on a huge new project that I was very concerned would interfere with us having enough time to process the D-day from a year ago. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that it wouldn’t interfere with the work we need to do but it has. and i’m resentful.

He said sunday he would get back on track and get a little done every night from 9-10. Last night was three nights of him NOT doing anything on it. Watered every plant in our house instead. I would have been happy to take on some of his house tasks to give him the necessary time but I wasn’t alerted there was a need. At 10pm I said I could understand not having the time but it would be better if he said something about it instead of just not doing it. I said it made me feel disrespected. he got angry and in angry voice said he would try harder the next day. So I went back to my work. He said why do you do this. I said i am giving you the space you requested. Eventually lights turned out and went to sleep.

what do I do with this.

posts: 393   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8808640

SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 10:26 PM on Wednesday, September 20th, 2023

How do you feel about setting a boundary/giving him a deadline and then moving into the MIL house if it's not done? I can't see it taking more than a couple of hours to get this done, much less 9 months.

His behavior reeks of DARVO.

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1332   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8808642

 Stillconfused2022 (original poster member #82457) posted at 12:31 AM on Thursday, September 21st, 2023

I wish I didn’t see the DARVO thing too. Just received flowers which just kinda reinforces the feeling we’re in a toxic cycle. I may need to move to the other house. Part of me just wants to say don’t bother doing it. Not because I want to make this easier for him but because it just feels kind of futile right now.

posts: 393   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8808652

MintChocChip ( member #83762) posted at 12:52 AM on Thursday, September 21st, 2023

I had the worst at reconciling, most self defensive avoidance WS in history, so I recognise this and what you're feeling. So let's establish what you deserve:

° you deserve the timeline to be his priority. 9 months is crazy, so he should be showing its his priority.

° you deserve him to recognise YOU are the victim and to be comforting and compassionate and definitely neither angry or defensive.

° you deserve him to write the damn thing with an attitude of remorse and humility.

He's betraying you again right now. He agreed to do something and is now not doing it.

I think you're being too nice- I would be raging

D Day: September 2020Currently separated

posts: 273   ·   registered: Aug. 20th, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8808658

Abalone123 ( member #82896) posted at 2:07 AM on Thursday, September 21st, 2023

You should stop asking him for a timeline and let him know you have given him enough time, that you are done. He can pack his bags and move in with his parents and stop by to water the plants once a week.

You have been too kind, too accommodating and he doesn’t care because he knows that the deadline moves forward. It’s a timeline, not a novel. Shouldn’t take him more than a day.

The anguish and this back and forth of him not doing what’s needed is not healthy for you. He’s playing with your emotions, dangling the promise of a detailed timeline and not following through. It is honestly cruel.

You need to take a break from him. Give him consequences. Don’t indulge, just act.

Please take care.

[This message edited by Abalone123 at 2:07 AM, Thursday, September 21st]

posts: 284   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2023
id 8808662

 Stillconfused2022 (original poster member #82457) posted at 2:48 PM on Thursday, September 21st, 2023

Abalone, I do see your point. He has committed to spending the whole weekend getting this thing done, but I agree that the place our Recovery stands in his list of priorities seems way at the bottom. I did actually use MCC’s list of points as a springboard to confront him last night. Afterwards I felt better. Like when he told me he wasn’t going to work on it this week it felt like all the angst and chagrin were bottled up in me. After confronting him I felt much better and it seemed like he was holding all the angst and chagrin. It was a good feeling. He did get a little nasty when cornered. He said that he could say a lot of mean things to me if he wanted to but he wouldn’t… (drumroll) then he just said them anyway. That if I was working full time he wouldn’t have to work so hard (I have been doing part time this past year while dealing with this, I am scheduled to return to a full time role January 1), he said I liked to mope around and how did I know he hadn’t been working on the timeline at work (I said because you would have told me, which is true). He felt I was making him feel like sh%$. I said the difference was he was saying these things with the intent to hurt. My comments were not intended to hurt him. I almost never say things with the intent to hurt him, or anyone else for that matter. He should not be proud of actively trying to hurt another person.

If I read this I would think this guy was just irredeemable. Strangely, on things other than this timeline he has been much better. Prior to 2 weeks ago he was making time to talk and offer support, losing the defensiveness, being caring and supportive. He just seems to keep slipping back.

I obviously didn’t pack his bags last night. But, it isn’t a dumb idea. I guess I’m just scared to take that step. The poison of his cheating has been seeping out over 8 years, down by like 10% every year. I thought if we could get through this process I would be left with the mostly good. When it comes to the cheating he has been a liar, selfish, cruel and all the rest. When the cheating is firmly in the rear view mirror he is a pretty great partner. I guess that means if I would just keep my trap shut everything would be good. I know i don’t want to live like that. All I ever wanted was to be married to my kids’ dad. It is hard to give it up when it seems so close. I am in a much better positon to walk out than I have ever been. I have rebuilt my life, friendships, fulfilling work, hobbies, fitness and financial building blocks. If I have to pull the trigger I will be ready. Thank you sincerely for reminding me that the step out the door is one I need to continue to keep at the forefront of my mind. At least for now.

Thank you for the support of helping me to face up to what I’m dealing with. Its not a pretty picture right now.

posts: 393   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8808687

OnTheOtherSideOfHell ( member #82983) posted at 3:14 PM on Thursday, September 21st, 2023

I know I am the exception, but the timeline never meant much to me and I could’ve done without it. It was completed during a marriage recovery intensive, but I didn’t find it helpful or necessary. Things I wanted to know I’d already asked and had been answered. 🤷‍♀️ And honestly, some details I wish I didn’t know. My husband was a cheater for a longtime. The details just aren’t that important to me then or now.

posts: 205   ·   registered: Feb. 28th, 2023   ·   location: SW USA
id 8808691
Topic is Sleeping.
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