SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Despite some improvements, my WH still sees AP in a positive light. The A was online and not physical. He says he knows what he did was wrong, but when it comes to speaking about AP he is quick to defend her and talk about her like she was a good person who helped him. A few times he said the opposite to try to shut me up, but it doesn't take long for the truth to later come out which is - he appreciates her and has good memories of their moments.

This has angered me. How can a person appreciate someone who helped lead them to this nightmare we're living in now? How can you appreciate a person who helped push you away from your family to the point where you almost lost them? How can you have good memories of moments that led you to hurting your BS to the point where I've been broken and crying every month since D day?

This has angered me so much and put a stop to me wanting to reconcile. It's hard because he's doing a lot and making improvements in other ways but it all feels a bit pointless to me if he still sees AP so highly. I can see him visibly get annoyed whenever I put her down. It feels like I've attacked his relative or something

Is this normal in the first 7 months of discovery? Just need to understand whether it's one of those things I need to wait for him to recover from because as much as I hate to admit it, I realise years of building up a relationship with a person won't make it easy to instantly switch off the feelings. However I'm concerned he's trying to rug sweep his feelings for her and not face them and find a way to kill them by understanding the damage its done. Therefore the good thoughts remain, but there's no way I want to move forward with him if he will continue to see her in a good way...help

Is he in IC? What is he doing to get his head right?

The good news is that he is being honest. The bad news is that you are still in infidelity, if perhaps only a little bit at this point. He still has an EA component for her. Have you two bought Not Just Friends and has he read it? That may help, along with IC.

Have you told him how you feel when he says what he does about her? Has he confronted the idea that a woman pursuing a married man is not in bounds ethically? That iy shows she is deeply flawed/not a "good" person?

He’s being honest 😡but it’s not helpful.

He really needs help to understand the devastation and trauma he brought to your life. He just doesn’t really get it.

This May be a dealbreaker for you.

He's basically letting you know he holds her in higher value,than he does you.

He has seen your devastation,and the damage it has caused the marriage..and still defends HER? Still believes she's a good person. He's letting you know his feelings for her, trump his feelings for you.

Yup. He's being honest. So you know that nothing else he does,or says, means a damn thing if he still thinks of her fondly.

We want our WSs to tell us the truth about what they're thinking and how they're feeling, and sometimes that truth friggin' HURTS.

My H was a lot like yours for about the first year after we started R. It took him finding out that AP had a concurrent EA with his friend/coworker for him to start to see her in a negative light. Before then, he thought of himself as the bad guy who had led her on and hurt us both. She was a "nice person" and "we all could have been good friends if he hadn't screwed it up." He hated it when I called her names because he says that he didn't like seeing ME be so ugly, which is a whole 'nother can of patriarchal worms.

He says he knows what he did was wrong

Assuming that AP knew that he was married, does he acknowledge that what AP did was wrong?

These are the kind of road blocks that make R difficult or almost impossible. I know I couldn't tolerate that either. It would also make me not want to R. I'm in the midst of D and hindsight for me is that I would not R again if my future partner cheated. To me it's not worth all the pain and hassles and YEARS of trying to get the M back on track. I know there are successful R'd couples here. It takes BOTH the WS and the BS to really do that and if my WS were telling me that the AP still holds a special place in his heart, I wouldn't be ALL IN for R, but that is me and I know how I deal with infidelity and it's post effects which is not well. Infidelity is a dealbreaker for me.

Does he understand that this woman was not his friend and not a friend of the marriage? She willingly pursued a relationship with a married man and she did not care about any of the consequences that came along with those actions. The EA AP is just a mirror of what you want them to be. They aren't a real person, they are presenting to you a very carefully crafted image of who and what they are. He never had to live a day with the EA AP and actually see what life with them is actually like. The reality is that life and marriage are messy. You are a partnership and you have to make tough and real decisions about how to spend money, where to spend/invest your money, how many kids to have, who is going to watch the kids and all the other decisions that come with a marriage. He didn't have to do any of that with his EA AP, so of course she was great. The betrayed spouse is the one who has to live with the WS in the real world, and the real world will never ever stack up against the fantasy. The woman on the other end of his EA is closer to an AI Avatar of a woman than a real woman who is interested in him for him. Do you happen to know if she is married or in a monogamous relationship? If so, her partner deserves to know about her A with your WH. Maybe a little rejection from her will help to shake his mind free of her being a good person, because she could flip on a dime and he can truly see her for who she is.

In my case, my EA AP turned out to be a nutcase and after we learned more about her and her situation that she was hiding, I'm very glad that we stopped when we did. It didn't take very long to get over what an awful and manipulative woman she was once I knew the truth about her life and could compare the truth to what shit she had been feeding me to keep the EA going.

my WH still sees AP in a positive light

Ask him if he’d see her in a positive light if she shanked you in the back with a rusty screwdriver.

Because that is what she did.

Yes,we want our ws to tell us the truth. That doesn't mean we should tolerate bullshit, for months after dday.

he appreciates her and has good memories of their moments.

Of course he does...he got his ego kibbles from all of this.

What YOU have going for you is that ALL A's are FAKE. They are not REAL. NONE of what was said between either of them is TRUE. This was so EASY for me to show my H...using HIS thoughts and HIS words!

A few examples: My H told me that his adultery co-conspirator was a GOOD MOM. She had 3 children...all teenagers. An older son...maybe 18...a daughter...maybe 16...and a special needs son...maybe 13. I didn't accuse...I asked questions. I asked him what made her a GOOD mom? Well...she would wait until her 13 year old was put to bed before leaving her house to come and fuck my H in his hotel room. I asked WHO would take care of her special needs son IF he needed her while she was out fucking my H? Well...her other kids of course! Ahhhh...so she was a GOOD mom...thanks to her other kids taking her place while she was fucking him???

I kept putting questions to him like this. Not in accusatory ways...but in a general curious way...guiding him to the TRUTH...because I was helpful like that!

He spent the night at her house...with her children there. I asked him if she did that often...allowing strangers into her home to sleep when her children were there...especially a vulnerable teenage girl? I didn't accuse HIM of having thoughts about the teenage daughter...but put that thought in his head.

Don't ever underestimate the value of planting these thoughts! After all...it is thoughts of the adultery co-conspirator being a GOOD PERSON that keeps the fond memories. In REALITY...adultery co-conspirators are SELFISH...NEEDY...WEAK people who USE the other adultery co-conspirator to get their selfish needs met.

You don't need to get upset...you have TRUTH on your side! Think about the GLOWING things your WH says about the adultery co-conspirator. YOU already KNOW they are lies. Just ask the questions...out of curiosity of course...to let him SEE...for HIMSELF...just how much she LIED to him.

The adultery co-conspirator in my case didn't have much social media to go by. She wasn't on Facebook or Instagram. But I have seen on here where some Betrayeds and Waywards have found out on social media that the adultery co-conspirators had been living lives very UNLIKE the ones they portray to their adultery co-conspirator. Once the TRUTH of how the adultery co-conspirators really ARE comes to light...the "good memories" END...just like everything else that is FAKE!

I kept putting questions to him like this. Not in accusatory ways...but in a general curious way...guiding him to the TRUTH...because I was helpful like that!

W2BHA I was very helpful, too!

By sharing too much about me and our marriage, H had unwittingly given AP a blueprint and a roadmap and detailed schematics for how to build his perfect woman. And build, she did! Except she was like the Great Value version of his perfect woman, with badly dyed red hair, stained couches and scratched tables in her "spotless" home, and a 9yo kid who said, "You're married, aren't you?" when he came to visit. Mom of the Year! There was always lots of satisfaction when I pulled back the curtain and exposed the all-powerful wizard's fakery and H was just like... oh.

Seriously, though, I don't think most WSs see their AP as a bad person, at least not in the early days, and that's really, really painful for the BS, because we see the AP as an enemy. We just want the WS to be on our team, and when they say complimentary things about the AP or defend the AP, that feels like a huge betrayal.

Transparency and authenticity is the ideal, but it's not attainable, or even desirable, for everyone. It's not typically comfortable to share thoughts and feelings that you know could hurt the other person -- or to receive them. The more I knew about the way he thought and felt - and shared about the way I thought and felt - the easier it was to peel back the layers and get to the truth of the matter. We're still peeling the onion a little more every day and I love it.

Gonna be blunt. Here goes.......

It's understandable you're hesitant to pursue R. I totally get it. He should be on team Confused10, not team AP. His selfish mindset around protecting AP at your expense doesn't bode well for R. He's still thinking like a selfish betrayer. He doesn't get it. Visible annoyance and defense of AP when you put her down is a hurtful version of the Cheater's Handbook classic "it's not what I did that's the problem, the problem is your reaction to it." Which sucks.

IMO, what he's doing is predictable and common - a typical reaction from betrayers focused on their own self-protection. Many betrayers do mental gymnastics around AP's character IN THE BEGINNING. If he's serious about R seems he should be past most of that - it's months after D-day right? Soooooo here's my two cents......If he admits she's a POS, it follows that HE's a POS as well for engaging with her. He can't REALLY go there while he's thinking selfishly (which he is), even though he's paying lip service to "what he did was wrong." If he REALLY believes that what he did was wrong, what she did was wrong as well because they BOTH did it. They BOTH behaved like POS. See how that works :-)?

Or, to take this one step further - because this was an online EA (no sex??), is it possible, deep down, he STILL believes what THEY did wasn't wrong? Yeah, trashing you to AP was wrong. Yeah, spending so much time and energy on her took his focus away from you and the family. He can admit SOME of it was wrong. Apparently her SECRETLY "helping him" FOR TWO YEARS wasn't wrong. Inappropriate emotional investment in each other wasn't wrong. Fondly remembering the A and defending her isn't wrong. If he truly believes the EA was wrong, truly comprehends how their actions devastated you and put the marriage in jeopardy, IMO he wouldn't be so protective of her - he wouldn't still "view her so highly."

Whether or not waiting him out will result in changing his selfish mindset is anyone's guess. Putting aside the question of whether or not he really believes the EA was wrong, defending AP shows he's not thinking about how his actions can hurt YOU. Which is troubling. If R is seriously on the table he should be all in on healing you and helping you recover from his selfish choices. Choosing team Confused10 over team AP is a no brainer - IF he's serious about R and has a normal stockpile of human empathy. Are you willing to risk R to see if he'll ever feel remorse (remorse=feeling truly sorry for hurting someone with your actions)? Is his empathy muscle atrophied - can it function again with exercise? Or does he simply lack basic empathetic skills most children intuitively understand - like putting himself in another person's (YOUR!) shoes? Exactly what is he "doing a lot" - what "improvements" has he made? Is he in IC? For R to work both partners need to be 100% all in on recreating the marriage. Is he really all in?

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 4:22 AM, Thursday, July 20th]

Thank you all so much for the honest replies. I took time out to just process it all and ended up giving him an ultimatum. He now says he doesn't have any good feeling about AP and is just desperate to move on. Of course he would be since he's sick of being "the bad guy". Every step of this process is just to tough. I admire all of you who have survived it and send so much support to those currently going through it

He now says he doesn't have any good feeling about AP and is just desperate to move on.

No you got the truth. After we entered true R I did like W2BHA and made her see how disgusting the A and the AP was. I would ask her "Does a real man interfere with a M?" "Does a real man accept second place?". I did my job because she looks back on the A with such pain and disgust.

He now says he doesn't have any good feeling about AP and is just desperate to move on.

Still the wrong answer. Is he desperate to understand how and why he could do something so terrible to someone he supposedly loves? Is he desperate to understand your pain and trauma and make amends for it?

He now says he doesn't have any good feeling about AP and is just desperate to move on.

Do you believe this? Are you ready to proceed full steam into reconciling?

His above quote may have made you feel better for the moment, but it will more than likely come back to bother you. A lot. Because it doesn't make sense at this point. His 'desperation' to move on has green-lighted some wayward behavior---i.e. saying what someone wants to hear instead of the blunt truth.

It's not okay that he has positive feelings for her. It was never okay to engage in an online affair, but he did.....and he still has positive feelings for her. If he really is serious about wanting to make amends, and sorting his own head out, those feelings will change over time, because they will be in direct conflict of what what you mean to him. He can't care for you deeply and continue to have good feelings about her, because the one action directly harmed the other.

Often times the feelings/wayward thoughts waning ARE linear....just much slower than we would anticipate.

I didn't believe what he said about suddenly not having good feelings at all. I made it very clear to him and told him I was done with the relationship. It led to lots of desperation on his part (family members involved etc.) but also a slight step forward in him pulling his head out of the fantasy land he created. He made it clear that any good feeling he had was nothing more than a dream he had created in his own mind with this person. He realises she was just what he wanted to believe she was to go along with his fantasy land dreams. It's good to finally have gotten to a point where he actually seems to be realising that so much of this A was just a fantasy.

However I'm not giving in just yet. The ups and downs I've had from his mixed emotional responses have been a mess, so I'll need much morn time to pass before I believe this and him in general. I'll be taking this as a key point to explore at our therapy session this week.

I'm pregnant and trying to take on more mental control for myself and baby now. I can't allow his stupidity to cause me and baby any harm. It's really tough but I must put myself first. He knows I'm more on the side of divorce now and I can see it's scaring him every day just from the desperate actions he's taking to try and keep me happy. Actions wise he's doing a lot. But words....my gosh he's absolutely terrible with words!!!! He's admitted this but I don't want to take it as an excuse. I keep wanting to focus on actions speaking louder than words, but I think I need both to be good in order to R. I've told him this. Let's see whether he's capable....

If this is helpful, I completely understand how you feel. My WB had positive regard of at least some sort for the AP for the first year.

It enraged me, and I completely understand where you're coming from - HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY POSITIVE REGARD AT ALL FOR SOMEONE YOU DID THIS WITH?!

A few thoughts that might help you.

1. My WS is an emotional moron. People who ate unfaithful have issues with actions / consequences and for a very long time he just saw the AP as someone who was nice to him and didn't make any correlation between that and the significance of her role in hurting me.

2. After a year, WS saw her as irrelevant. He never hated her, he never had some big breakthrough - she was just completely irrelevant. He just came to that because he never had any depth of real attachment to her beyond her meeting a need at the time.

3. By year 3 he had reached a place of not hating HER, but hating that he ever met her. He did finally understand she wasn't just a nice person who "helped him" or stroked his ego. She was also the cause of enormous damage to a number of lives.

So really in the end it was a comfort he didn't lie because then I knew he was telling the truth.

It's very painful, but I think if people had their head screwed on in the first place, they don't cheat. So the very messed up ways of thinking start to become really obvious in R.

I think the way their mind works is childish and selfish and doesn't really connect meaning to things. I honestly don't think my WS thought much at all. Of course he knew it was bad and wrong, but he didn't really understand the damage he was going to create for both me and himself.