Cookies are required for login or registration. Please read and agree to our cookie policy to continue.

Newest Member: PeanutButterPixels

Reconciliation :
How do you know when there’s no hope?

Topic is Sleeping.
default

Edie ( member #26133) posted at 10:13 AM on Thursday, June 29th, 2023

What is particularly gutting about all this going up north/ not going up north business is: H talked to the kids and asked them behind my back whether they cared if I went or not.


What the…??!!??

So he cannot/ will not trust you and you cannot trust him?

Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 kids 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) R'd.

posts: 6639   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2009   ·   location: Europe
id 8797360
default

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 4:00 PM on Thursday, June 29th, 2023

Thanks guys. I asked for a separation last night- we need a Hail Mary pass here in this phase of overtime to make it through all this. I asked that we get down on our knees and pray together every day and go back to counseling if we're going to work on this any more. He is lashing out and rejecting me left and right and I cannot stand it anymore. We did pray together and I was able to comfort him a bit this morning. So there's that.

Such a shit show. I thought yesterday I was at peace with separation (IHS), but now I'm not sure, seeing the family life, the good memories we were able to have.

I think the common theme from couples able to make it work (somewhat) with COW AP still at the same company was minimizing contact (check) and giving the BS the agency to decide whether or not WS leaves the job. THAT is what is lacking here. I haven't given H the agency to decide whether or not to leave my job. I'm not sure that's prudent in our case anyway and don't see myself leaving my current one for anything less than something equivalent. Moving laterally within the company to a "stretch goal" job in another function (to prepare me for management roles later on) is likely the best and only move available. BUT... yeah, no AP on site... but travel and more hours on site (in another building). Or working for a steel supplier in a technical development role. BUT... travel and longer on site hours. So, we're stuck. Again. Per HF's advice- me giving up the job for something less advantageous to my career would be unwise at best.

How do two people who love each other so much and look so good on paper be so hard to be married?

The only time we were on the same page as a team was when we were pursuing a relationship with God, living our faith and being faithful to the church's teaching on marriage. It all fell apart after the kids came and my mental health went in the toilet. That's why I thought the "Hail Mary" would be praying together daily and studying Bible together and focusing on WE instead of HIM and HE. My H has said that there's things that haven't been addressed, things that haven't been made right for him. That marriage counselling didn't focus on him and his needs. Therefore MC isn't going to fix the M for him. My IC pointed out yesterday that we've had 2 YEARS of MC. If it wasn't addressed then, then what the heck was he doing? That you can put anyone in counselling and if they're not actively involved in changing their own heart, the counselling is only going to put lipstick on a pig. I'm paraphrasing there. She didn't say lipstick on a pig.

DETACH. Don't even try and change him.

I have another IC today in a few min. Too tired and sick to work.

H said I didn't have compassion on him in how difficult this time of year is for him. That I didn't do anything to comfort him/help him through. I pointed out that I know he's really struggling, that this time of year sucks for him and that I was taking compassion and empathy for him in STICKING WITH HIM THROUGH THE REJECTION NEGATIVITY AND CONSTANT DISAPPOINTMENT HE EXPRESSES TOWARDS ME. That even through all that, just earlier this week (Monday- before he asked me not to join the fam for vacation) I was putting together a planned schedule to have something fun or relaxing that he and our family enjoys EVERY DAY to look forward to. So we could have a good time and we could relax and we could reconnect as a couple and a family. He said the way I went about it was wrong and not what he needed. Even though he communicates to me directly that he needs good times and joy in his life. That he gets it from everyone but me.

How is a person to relax enough to let go and have enjoyable times when the very way that I'm planning the good times isn't good enough? I'm not good enough. No satisfaction, no joy. If I'm late (poor planning, poor attention to time), it's my fault for not setting alarms every day. If the dog runs away, it's not right for him to spend money on fixing the dog fence- he'd rather have a $500 backpack than solve a daily annoyance and stressor in our M.

He asked if we could date while IHS. He wants some happiness and thinks dating others would be adding to that. Ok, but I've changed and my thought was (which I shared), "so, you're ok asking another person to enter a enormously stressful situation for your own enjoyment? How is that fair to them?" And I asked him, "What kind of person would agree to that- my AP was a garbage person and was ok with a garbage situation. I was a horrible person then. What kind of person would be ok jumping into a situation with an unstable marriage with kids involved?"

He wants me to do the work for him. I told him that the WE and US needs to be the focus. I'm keeping my focus on that- WE US TOGETHER. He did the whole, "I need you to carry me like I carried you." It's been so long. He's had so much opportunity to learn to carry himself. He's not done it. Even now, in his hurt and pain, his first thought was, "Can we date?"

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

posts: 1178   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8797393
default

BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 4:30 PM on Thursday, June 29th, 2023

All other considerations aside, if he asked you if he could date during IHS, then your marriage is effectively over and you should file for divorce.

I don’t see how watching your spouse get dolled up to go out and test the waters with prospective partners could possibly bring you back together. Perhaps more importantly, this would be extremely upsetting and confusing for your children.

As for whether you could be doing more to help him, there’s really nothing you can do if your husband won’t take an active role in his own healing. To use an analogy, if his legs were broken, as a good spouse, you ought to help him to the best of your ability, such as helping him get in and out of bed, get dressed, and up and down the stairs.

But it would be unreasonable for him to ask you to carry him from place to place in a litter because he refuses to use a wheelchair. He might feel entitled to being carried in the litter because you deliberately ran over his legs with a car, but that doesn’t change the fact that you are physically incapable of doing so.

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1931   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8797396
default

SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 4:34 PM on Thursday, June 29th, 2023

I told him that the WE and US needs to be the focus. I'm keeping my focus on that- WE US TOGETHER.

I asked about separation with the idea that you could take a break from working on the relationship, take a break from being vilified, and focus on your needs. You, in particular. He's already very good at focusing on himself.

Is it not possible to separate in different homes? I don't think IHS is going to provide much relief or clarity for anyone.

I'm interested to hear what your IC has to say.

ETA: Love Bluer's broken legs analogy. Spot on.

He might feel entitled to being carried in the litter because you deliberately ran over his legs with a car, but that doesn’t change the fact that you are physically incapable of doing so.

And not just physically incapable, but hopefully unwilling on common sense and moral grounds. It's not helpful or healing. All it is is punitive.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 4:39 PM, Thursday, June 29th]

Life is about fucking things up, and then unfucking the things you fucked up. That's what makes you less of a fuck-up. Not lying about it. ~ from Loudermilk S1:E1

posts: 1267   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8797398
default

TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 6:40 PM on Thursday, June 29th, 2023

Always so much to unpack with him, MIG.

But yeah, the dating question is just a bridge too far for me. I suppose folks do separate and agree to allowing dating (how?), but he'd be living in the house with you and your children while getting dolled up to go on a date?

That simply sounds cruel to me. To you and your children.

I think you should seriously consider a physical separation. Someone needs to find a space (with family or an apartment) and move out. Easier said then done but not really. My WS found an apartment within 2 weeks of my asking. The finances were doable if we each cut back, so we did.

You will do worse staying IHS and watching him court other women. It will bring you even lower. My guess is, you'll panic and start the pick me dance. Which we all know is a humiliating, self defeating exercise in futility.

Separation is not divorce. You two can figure it out while separated. But the situation sounds very toxic for both of you and that poison needs to be bled out and healed. I don't see a way to do that in your current predicament.

Be prepared for your attachment bond to start screaming it's head off. It's normal. A biological response to having a primary bond threatened. Talk to your therapist about techniques to self sooth that monster so that your decisions are based on facts, not panic. IN other words, quiet the monster so you can actually make this hail mary pass (physically separate).

posts: 594   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8797423
default

emergent8 ( Guide #58189) posted at 7:42 PM on Thursday, June 29th, 2023

He asked if we could date while IHS. He wants some happiness and thinks dating others would be adding to that.

Jesus Christ. Its this. This type of clueless selfishness warped into victimhood. THIS is the main ongoing problem in your marriage. He thinks he always deserves to be happy but it's someone else's job to ensure that he is happy and he's not willing to lift a finger or change a thing himself. So he's unhappy (because happiness is not something that can be externalized), and now he deserves a treat (at your expense - always). But of course, the treat doesn't make him happy and somehow that's your fault. He is an endless pit for external validation and spoiler alert, YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO FILL IT.

THAT is his first reaction? Are you kidding me? He's not worried about losing you. He's telling you that. He's already told you that with the holiday. He's only worried about what he gets (or doesn't get) out of it. He's already dating his coworker, they just aren't fucking. Good god, your kids live at home, don't they? How does he intend to explain this to them? Don't worry sweetie, I know you're worried that mommy and daddy are going to break up but daddy has a date tonight.

Forget the in home separation - Migander. It'll be more of the same (you tying yourself into knots and him having justification to act MORE selfishly than he already has been). It's liable to make you miserable. If you haven't been able to detach yet Mig (and you haven't!!), you certainly will not be able to do so when he's parading a bunch of women in front your face and telling you not to have feelings about it because YOU chose to separate. If you want a real Hail Mary, get a rental apartment. Let him feel what being single ACTUALLY would be like. See how much good times and joy he experiences

Remind me, how old are the kids?

[This message edited by emergent8 at 7:46 PM, Thursday, June 29th]

Me: BS. Him: WS.
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
Happily reconciled.

posts: 2083   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8797440
default

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 7:47 PM on Thursday, June 29th, 2023

Thanks for the wheelchair analogy. Really illustrates where we're at.

I think you should seriously consider a physical separation. Someone needs to find a space (with family or an apartment) and move out. Easier said then done but not really. My WS found an apartment within 2 weeks of my asking. The finances were doable if we each cut back, so we did.

We're looking at IHS first. If that's not working, his parents live near by and he can move there for a while. It's so exhausting.

I asked about separation with the idea that you could take a break from working on the relationship, take a break from being vilified, and focus on your needs. You, in particular. He's already very good at focusing on himself.

That is definitely my goal- stop worrying about what he thinks, what he wants me to look like, what he wants me to say/do/react to. Just. STOP. Caring. I'm very anxious and it's exhausting.

Just today, I've found I'm able to connect with the kids more. Made mac and cheese from scratch, played with them on drawing apps. Hung out with DD and DS. Really nice.

I've described the behavior and conversations we have to my IC and she said, "You are a person to be loved, not something to be fixed." One of my friends who knows about all this wonders if he even likes me.

H maintains that I misrepresent him to people, that I don't talk about all the hard work he put in the first 6 months or so after DDay. How he did go to MC and IC (under promise of D if it didn't happen). How hard he's worked to keep the family together through all of this. How he's stopped the comparisons, started paying bills on time, been more financially responsible. I'm aware of all this and appreciative.

He says that when people come to him with a problem, he doesn't see it as a personal thing- he knows he can fix it and does. That's true for behaviors, but not underlying attitudes. When I've requested he look within and see why he thinks its ok to criticize his wife, why it's his job to do that, he says we are supposed to help each other become the best version of our selves. He asks me if I want him to lie and say everything is fine? That the way I dress, walk, hair, timeliness, anxiety, all of that, like that's something he's expected to live with and be happy? He says he's accepting it, but he's not happy about it. Not happy to just put up with it and put on a happy face. So, thus the conversation gets turned from, "Honey, I hurt when you criticize me all the time, could you please change that," to: "criticism is perfectly fine, it's our job, and there's nothing wrong with it and I'm not going to lie to you."

So, if it's the truth that he's so displeased with me all the time, and he's seeing no need to change that, then I have to take him as he is and 9know that this isn't going to change. DETACH.

Now his mom wants to talk to me tonight. She's been really kind the last few years, so I'm going over there to hear her out. H said both his parents think we really have to try. They don't know everything that's going on, but out of love for her, I'm going.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

posts: 1178   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8797442
default

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 8:00 PM on Thursday, June 29th, 2023

Hi emergent,

I gave H grace as he said that in pain. BUT I'm NOT discounting his words.

THAT is his first reaction? Are you kidding me?

Yep. I told my IC (and my friend Ang) that I don't know what the first reaction to these things should be, but "Are we free to date" certainly ain't it if saving the M is his primary concern. I think, "What are we going to tell the kids/family??" is more apt.

He's already dating his coworker, they just aren't fucking.

Don't know, they meet up in groups (or with at least one other friend) for lunch and dinner. Still haven't met her. She's not much for sex, doesn't have it with her BF who's 20ish years her senior. His daughter (eldest) is <10 years younger than her... weird. So yeah, she's shared with H that they don't do it often and he has trouble when they do. Hm... thinking about this... that's a lot of information for a woman to share with a man that's not direct family or her therapist.

Remind me, how old are the kids?

Lord help us, they're 11 (DD) and 13 (DS).

We made a rule during that discussion on dating (and he brought it up in a text again today!!) that the kids aren't to have any whiff of it. That he does me the courtesy of letting me know if he's having sex. That we're both such a mess that we may have sex in our wild emotions. I said that I know I didn't provide him with that courtesy, but being in a different place, I hope he would live by that.

Be prepared for your attachment bond to start screaming it's head off.

Yes, the lovely trauma bond. Sometimes I wonder if that's the only thing that held us together for so long.

This is all so sad. H doesn't deserve this, I don't deserve this and the kids sure as hell don't deserve this. crying

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

posts: 1178   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8797443
default

SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 8:46 PM on Thursday, June 29th, 2023

Don't know, they meet up in groups (or with at least one other friend) for lunch and dinner. Still haven't met her. She's not much for sex, doesn't have it with her BF who's 20ish years her senior. His daughter (eldest) is <10 years younger than her... weird. So yeah, she's shared with H that they don't do it often and he has trouble when they do. Hm... thinking about this... that's a lot of information for a woman to share with a man that's not direct family or her therapist.

This is an EA already, and it sure reads like she's trolling for a PA. Betcha ten bucks he's itching to "date" HER aka take his EA to the next level. And wow! What a bonus if it's actually sanctioned by his W!

Do you want the boundaries of the separation to be that sex with other people is permissible? If not, it's perfectly reasonable for you to say no, that you're not about that.

I've described the behavior and conversations we have to my IC and she said, "You are a person to be loved, not something to be fixed." One of my friends who knows about all this wonders if he even likes me.

Your IC is correct. smile

You H seems to feel entitled to do whatever he wants and to use your A as the interminable reason. Maybe he doesn't like you. Maybe he does, but he'll never be able to get over it. What can you do to get yourself out of this dysfunction and be loving and kind to yourself?

Life is about fucking things up, and then unfucking the things you fucked up. That's what makes you less of a fuck-up. Not lying about it. ~ from Loudermilk S1:E1

posts: 1267   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8797449
default

Grieving ( member #79540) posted at 8:50 PM on Thursday, June 29th, 2023

I’m so sorry you’re in this place, Migander. I can’t imagine how broken down and anxious and resentful I would be if I lived with someone so critical. His outlook on it being ok to criticize you like that is inexcusable, and it’s incompatible with a healthy relationship. It was also very telling about his frame of mind that he instantly asked about dating other people. Keep your job, detach, and pursue separation. I agree with others that out of home separation would be better.

I hope your talk with your mother in law goes all right. Hang in there.

Husband had six month affair with co-worker. Found out 7/2020. Married 20 years at that point; two teenaged kids. Reconciling.

posts: 630   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2021
id 8797452
default

TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 9:24 PM on Thursday, June 29th, 2023

I understand your desire to try IHS first. And I respect whatever decision you make.

But I say with kindness: I don't think you are strong enough to detach, maintain boundaries with him and heal yourself while he is in your physical space. Especially if he is dating other women right in your face. To be honest, I don't know anyone who would be strong enough to do that when they still have deep feelings for their spouse.

You do you of course but what do we tell BS' here all of the time? Half measures don't work. Bold, well thought out actions drive change. You've really got to dig deep here and step out of this in a clear way. It may be the only move that could save this marriage if that's your wish.

PS: your bond doesn't have to be a trauma bond. We pair bond for survival. It is a strong bond and the mind and body will tell us that we are in danger if that bond is threatened. Cue panic, anxiety, stress, pain, etc. I'm only pointing that out b/c "trauma bond" can be difficult to define or diagnose which can make us all confused about if it even exists in our relationships. Maybe it's there or maybe not. But the pair bond is very much there and if it's weakening or being damaged it is extremely stressful to our psyche.

I wish you boldness.

posts: 594   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8797455
default

emergent8 ( Guide #58189) posted at 9:28 PM on Thursday, June 29th, 2023

I thought I would be overjoyed when the day finally came that you decided to separate from this man, but his reaction to it all (AND YOUR SEEMING CALMNESS TO THE SAME) has me feeling all sorts of rage on your behalf. I apologize now for my liberal use of capslocks.

We made a rule during that discussion on dating (and he brought it up in a text again today!!) that the kids aren't to have any whiff of it. That he does me the courtesy of letting me know if he's having sex. That we're both such a mess that we may have sex in our wild emotions. I said that I know I didn't provide him with that courtesy, but being in a different place, I hope he would live by that.

MARRIED PEOPLE DON"T DATE OTHER PEOPLE. If he wants to date during the separation, fine. But you will take that as a sign that he's no longer interested in fixing the marriage which means that you should move towards divorce. COME ON!!!! You guys are madhatters, you should know better than ANYONE that adding more people and more complication to your situation is not going to solve a damn thing and is only going to cause new hurts and NEW resentments (like you guys need any more of that).

Ask yourself Migander, what is the purpose of the separation. If it's to detach and get a feel for what an inevitable divorce might look like, then take steps towards detaching already. Don't see him. Don't speak to him outside of kid/logistical stuff. FOR HEAVENS SAKES, DON"T SLEEP WITH HIM. What you're suggesting now is not a Hail Mary. It's just continuing what is already NOT working.

You need to tell the kids and your families. If you both absolutely MUST be in the house, come up with some sort of shared custody arrangement. This needs to be real if you want to detach and you want anything at all to change in your relationship. If it's not real, you're all still living under the same roof, eating dinner together, like usual, pretending things are normal. Except now he's free to come and go as he pleases, spend what he likes, he gets to avoid hard discussions, and he gets to date other people!!!

[This message edited by emergent8 at 10:34 PM, Thursday, June 29th]

Me: BS. Him: WS.
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
Happily reconciled.

posts: 2083   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8797458
default

TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 9:41 PM on Thursday, June 29th, 2023

^^ I mean, what she said.

posts: 594   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8797462
default

grubs ( member #77165) posted at 2:17 AM on Friday, June 30th, 2023

Don't know, they meet up in groups (or with at least one other friend) for lunch and dinner. Still haven't met her.

If they are discussing their sex lives, they are more than just platonic friends. What you just experienced is a WS looking to get approval either post-facto or before banging their AP. Don't give him that. You are better served to initiate divorce than a trial separation which he feels is a green light to test out his AP as your replacement.

Again, you can't do this alone. Seems your AP is more interested in cultivating his relationship with current AP then one with you. Doesn't that tell you enough about the future of your marriage?

PS Make sure your MIL knows that he is shopping for replacements instead of trying to fix his marriage.

posts: 1579   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2021
id 8797510
default

BearlyBreathing ( member #55075) posted at 2:35 AM on Friday, June 30th, 2023

MIgander, so now MIgoose will be able to spend all he wants to wine and dine other people? He’s been financially abusive, emotionally abusive, and committed adultry. You changed your body for him and he was not happy. You cannot be what he wants — it’s a moving target and unachieveable. Yes, you cheated and you still work with the AP. But he put you in a financial hole that made changing jobs detrimental to you both.

You cannot win here with him.
You have not been happy.
He is not happy.
There may be love, but it doesn’t sound like there is "like" or respect.

And I 100% agree that dating while married is the WORST possible thing.
That will not solve ANYTHING.

Truly detach and work on getting your ducks lined up.
You need this for your kids. This is not a healthy place for them.

I hope you escape this gravity - it’s a black hole.

Me: BS 57 (49 on d-day)Him: *who cares ;-) *. D-Day 8/15/2016 LTA. Kinda liking my new life :-)

**horrible typist, lots of edits to correct. :-/ **

posts: 5965   ·   registered: Sep. 10th, 2016   ·   location: Northern CA
id 8797514
default

FunHouseMirror ( member #80992) posted at 3:08 PM on Friday, June 30th, 2023

As someone who was very adept at playing mind games (and winning them) (in my MUCH younger years) I wonder if his question about sex is meant to make you step back and reconsider whether you really want the separation. And also to make it seem like he doesn't care.

Call his bluff and divorce him. You can always take him back if you miss his style of "love" so much. He is just too childish and immature for a grown woman to deal with.

posts: 247   ·   registered: Sep. 21st, 2022
id 8797604
default

asc1226 ( member #75363) posted at 3:49 PM on Friday, June 30th, 2023

If he decides to "date" his married coworker, please let her betrayed husband know.

I make edits, words is hard

posts: 611   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8797640
default

sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:07 PM on Friday, June 30th, 2023

What will it take for you to accept yourself enough to tell your H that you want and expect to be loved, not to be fixed? (That's a real question - I know it's not easy to answer.)

What will it take for you to tell your H that his dating will be a cause for D.

*****

When I've requested he look within and see why he thinks its ok to criticize his wife, why it's his job to do that, he says we are supposed to help each other become the best version of our selves. He asks me if I want him to lie and say everything is fine? That the way I dress, walk, hair, timeliness, anxiety, all of that, like that's something he's expected to live with and be happy? He says he's accepting it, but he's not happy about it.

Yeah, but he blames you for his problems. And you let him.

If he doesn't like the way you look, that's his problem, not yours. Besides, if he were actively working to R, he'd tell you that he likes how you look in these clothes, not that he doesn't like how you look in those. Telling you what he likes gives you guidance. Telling you what he doesn't like gives you the problem of figuring out which of the millions of alternatives he wants. One way tells you how to satisfy him. The other leaves you guessing - and probably fearful of making another 'bad' choice.

*****

No, he's not well-advised to live with things he doesn't like and pretend he's happy. If there are too many of those things (and he gets to define 'too many), he can choose D or S.

My W & I have issues that started when we met in 1965. So far, we've decided to stay together despite those long-running differences. We make attempts to resolve them from time to time, but we know we've chosen to accept that they exist; we don't criticize each other for them. If the differences bothered us constantly, I think we would have D'ed. If I've read your H right, he doesn't seem to see any alternative but for you to change to satisfy his whims. He doesn't seem to see you as an independent being.

*****

You're placing more value on your job than on your M. You know that, right? I don't care what the reasons are right now; what's important is knowing what you're doing.

I agree with your reasoning. I agree that your H is dumping you into a catch-22. I know he's still at least at risk of more financial infidelity.

I think your gut is right about keeping your job, despite the possibility of seeing and even interacting with your ap. I also think your gut may be right in valuing your job over your M.

But I think it's important for you to accept that you're at least awfully close to giving up your M before your job.

*****

He says that when people come to him with a problem, he doesn't see it as a personal thing- he knows he can fix it and does.

It's hard to be more wrong. The best he can do is guide another person. The person who has the problem has to solve it. He can't.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29891   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8797649
default

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 5:01 PM on Friday, June 30th, 2023

Thanks sisoon- this outlines it pretty clearly:

You're placing more value on your job than on your M. You know that, right? I don't care what the reasons are right now; what's important is knowing what you're doing... I think your gut is right about keeping your job, despite the possibility of seeing and even interacting with your ap. I also think your gut may be right in valuing your job over your M. But I think it's important for you to accept that you're at least awfully close to giving up your M before your job.

I am. As it stands, yes, I am valuing my job over my M.

As for the whole "dating" thing- H clarified later whether the S would be on the way to D or not. He'd rather just D than trial S.

Ugh. I hate this.

Talked to his mom last night. She was crying at the thought of losing me. We had a very frank discussion of my behavior and H's behavior around other women, comparisons, spending and entitlement and general expectations of emotional security. She's not from a background of overt abuse like I am, so I can appreciate how she is able to view things simply. She understands my incredible sensitivity around Brian's friendships with other women. She was surprised at how much Brian was comparing me to my one friend. Said that husbands are absolutely NOT to compare their wife to other women. That if he wanted to marry someone else, he should have married them. He married me and needs to value me.

She agreed that he needs to stop being "friends" with J if he wants this marriage to work. I told her about J telling H about her lack of sex life, how I saw that as inappropriate and fishing. She didn't think much of that- she has friends who are couple friends with them and they joke around about each other. I didn't agree with her viewpoint, but couldn't put my finger on why until today. I was thinking how I've never met J, I don't know her BF, we are NOT couple friends. We have couple friends C and V who we both love. C and V joke all the time about how much fun they have enjoying sex together and how much they still find each other to be sexy. I feel safe sharing all kinds of stuff with them. Because THEY'RE MARRIED, LOVE EACH OTHER DEEPLY, AND LOVE LAUGHING ABOUT HOW MUCH FUN IT IS TO HAVE SEX WITH YOUR SPOUSE. The exact opposite of two people not married to each other, opposite sex (and hetero), complaining about the lack of sex they have with their partner- who the other has NOT MET, let alone been friends with. Maybe she didn't understand the context. Hah. I love my mom in law, but she is rather naïve about some things. look

We were talking about attitudes towards clothing, spending, lifestyle and keeping up with the Joneses. It's really remarkable how much we do have in common with our values. Values for choosing friends, values for what you invest in (memories, not stuff), mutual interests and enjoyments. It was really good to reconnect with her. And positive towards myself- I see the positive things I've admired about her within myself.

She said she sees how hard I'm working, how I've gone on meds, sought counselling and worked so hard on healing my wounds. She understands H will have trouble trusting me in the future because of what I did. She told me she forgives me for it and doesn't think it will happen again since I've worked so hard on it. She said that my dad in law has forgiven me too, even though it was harder for him since his almost-fiancée from college cheated on him the whole 5 years they were together. I thanked her, she's really kind. I told her it meant a lot to me since she could have cut ties with me and hated me for life, and no one would have blamed her. She's shown a lot of grace and mercy. I think I've judged her too harshly over the years. And I'm really sorry for that.

She made a good point- that I'm a very wounded creature from my upbringing and am liable to be too sensitive to others' opinion of me. She encouraged me to be stronger and stick up for myself. I needed to heal and be confident in myself so Brian's complaints wouldn't affect me so deeply. That Brian would have to either accept it and love me anyway, or deal. That there's things we don't like about our spouses and that's just the way it is in life.

So, since I have her encouragement and support, I don't feel so alone in this. It's the first time in a long time like I've felt like I have a mom. For those who don't know, my mom and I are estranged. Years of disrespect and outright abuse from her led me to go VERY low contact with her the past 3 years. My mom's emotional maturity level is about that of a 16 year old, so I really haven't had the guidance of an older wiser woman since... high school? So yeah, it was a good feeling being loved like that- unconditionally. And supported.

Which brings me to this:

My W & I have issues that started when we met in 1965. So far, we've decided to stay together despite those long-running differences. We make attempts to resolve them from time to time, but we know we've chosen to accept that they exist; we don't criticize each other for them. If the differences bothered us constantly, I think we would have D'ed. If I've read your H right, he doesn't seem to see any alternative but for you to change to satisfy his whims. He doesn't seem to see you as an independent being.

Acceptance is something we both have to work on. I have to accept that his priorities are keeping up with the Joneses and "self soothing" his anxieties by making everyone else around him into what he deems he needs. He has to accept that I cheated, am working in the same building as AP and NOT going back to that behavior again.

I'm going on the vacation, my mom in law and H both asked me to. Since I'm not walking into a situation where I'm going to have hostile in laws on top of a hurt and angry husband, I think I can bear it. I'm planning on taking my own time to myself for a long walk/run in the evening after kids are in bed. Hopefully H can take the opportunity for some good talks with his mom like I had with her. I'm going to take her advice and shrug and carry on when H has a problem/preference/disappointment with whatever it is that can't be fixed in 5 minutes (change clothes/comb hair/stuff in teeth kinda thing).

H and I did problem solve about a few practical things this morning. The time awareness thing is really huge to him. I told him it's exhausting to set alarms every day for every single thing he wants me to get done. We agreed that he would tell me what are the mission critical times that have to be met ahead of time (that morning) and I would set an alarm for that that day. H will have to prioritize what is absolutely critical that I be timely for (like RIGHT on time- not within 10/15min like I normally am). Funny- mom in law said timeliness is something I've always struggled with, she was surprised that it would bother H so much since I was like this before we got married. laugh

Wish me luck, this has been a whole week long panic attack. Hail Mary pass indeed.

[This message edited by MIgander at 5:05 PM, Friday, June 30th]

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

posts: 1178   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8797686
default

LearningToJoy ( new member #80732) posted at 6:30 PM on Friday, June 30th, 2023

He wants to date. Or preferably skip a separation and go straight to D.

You have agreed to tweaking your alarm process to be on time so he is pacified. (Sorry, but deck chairs, Titanic.)

He can decide to exclude you from family vacations with your children.
************************

This is not loving, healthy, sustainable, or fulfilling for you.

Do you feel you have to take whatever he says or does because of relationship history?

You deserve more acceptance and less criticism. It seems like you are in a vicious loop of "never good enough" and needing to show that you are to gain love and acceptance. He knows how to manipulate you.

Please reread your original post in this thread and consider how you would complete these thoughts:

I want freedom to __________.
I want freedom from __________.

posts: 11   ·   registered: Aug. 26th, 2022   ·   location: WA
id 8797694
Topic is Sleeping.
Cookies on SurvivingInfidelity.com®

SurvivingInfidelity.com® uses cookies to enhance your visit to our website. This is a requirement for participants to login, post and use other features. Visitors may opt out, but the website will be less functional for you.

v.1.001.20240412a 2002-2024 SurvivingInfidelity.com® All Rights Reserved. • Privacy Policy