SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’m not a big fan of attending couples therapy while divorcing. Think they are counterproductive to each other. Divorce – even "amicable" and done in the friendliest of ways – requires confrontation and that confrontation will most likely be counterproductive to any possible gain of therapy. I would suggest you do one or the other, but that’s just me. Whatever rocks your boat and keep you on course…

What I will say is this:
One of the hardest things to get used to when in law enforcement is the absolutely useless and unnecessary interference of others. Various situations, but we might be talking to someone suspected of DUI and bystanders would start harassing us about how we should deal with real crime, how they paid our wages, how we should not be three arresting one person… whatever. People that had no dog in the fight – no reason to get stuck in. I can admit it now – this many years later – that I sometimes could feel compassion to some poor drunk guy who was angry and resisted arrest, but I sometimes wanted to wrap my baton around the head of somebody that crowded in on us screaming about brutality because there are three of us against one or whatever.

That person that commented on your marriage… she’s one of those.
Someone that doesn’t have a dog in this fight.
Someone you should simply shut down and move on.

Your marriage is between you and your wife. Heck… the reason you found this site is precisely because she broke that rule.

A decision to reconcile or divorce will not be based on a poll on Facebook or what others tell you to do. If you do divorce (or if you reconcile) you don’t have to justify or explain to anyone other than yourself.

Ignore the others. Base your future and your decisions on what you want.

Don’t you just love so-called friends who feel like they can tell you how to live your life? This is your one life and you have the right to live it the way you want to. You need a very succinct answer to people like this. You might just say to someone like her, "This is none of your business". I am quite sure she would be offended. But who cares. She sounds like someone you need in your rearview mirror.

I think it was HikingOut that first suggested ST, and I'm eternally grateful to her for that suggestion. It was definitely the right move.

It was me. I feel silly speaking up about this, but I'm proud that my suggestion was a good one and I want the Brownie points!

I agree with Bigger. What's the point of the two of you attending ST, if you are divorcing? Does she need it? Yes. Does she need a lot of IC,with a competent IC, absolutely. But why are you attending ST as a couple? You are not a future sex partner. And,if you've decided to divorce, you shouldn't be a current sex partner either.

Since you've decided to divorce, it's time you stop being so immersed in her private business. I think she is most likely holding back a lot, since you are a part of those sessions. For her to get the help she needs,she needs to be completely honest,and there's no way that's happening. She doesn't want a divorce, and she has to be on edge,knowing anything she talks about in ST(since sexual issues are the primary reason for the divorce),might make you leave sooner. Also, it has to be giving her false hope,that you will stay married, if you attend these sessions.

It's time to step away from this. Stop trying to fix her. That's her job now. It was all along.

First, I would tell your wife to call off her flying monkeys. Tell her that if she really wants to save the marriage, then having a bunch of people (most of whom, you guess, have never been in your shoes) victim-blaming you and attacking you is not going to get you to comply with your wishes. In fact, you should tell her that if she really remorseful for her despicable actions and wanted to repair the marriage, she would be defending you against these attacks, not providing cannon fodder for them.

Second, the next time you get cornered by one of these flying monkeys, tell them to back off. How you spend the rest of your life is not up for a committee vote by your Homeowners Association. If they persist, then you walk away from that person or you leave altogether.

Third, ask you wife how many and who among these "mutual friends" knew about the affair when it was happening and didn't tell you. Judging by how they've rallied to her side and are clearly enabling her victim mentality, then it's safe to assume that at least some of them did. If she admits to it, then cutting these people out should be a mandatory condition for reconciliation. If she refuses, well... that's just one more confirmation that you need that filing was the right thing.

Fourth, I don't recommend telling all and sundry about the full details about your wife's affair and everything you've gone through. It's safe to assume that anyone who heard about the affair from your wife and hasn't called you to say, "I'm sorry to hear about what happened! How are you feeling? Do you need anything?" doesn't really give a shit about you and isn't worth confiding in. People like the asshole who confronted you at the party don't really care about your feelings and have made their minds up. Others just see your terrible situation as gossip fodder and will take a prurient interest in the details.

But if you have one or 2 people with whom you are close friends personally (and not just as part of a unit with your wife) who you trust implicitly, then I would give them the full story, talk to them about everything that you're going through, just so you have a source of support.

I agree with BluerThanBlue. Your wife would do well to tell her friends that cornering you isn't doing her any favors and is wildly inappropriate.

Also, I think it's wise to set yourself up with an exit plan while attempting to work on the marriage. You don't want to do the work for a year only to find out that it was futile and you're trapped for another year while you wait out the requirements. That's some good self-care, IMO.

It sounds to me like you've made a decision and are comfortable with it, so I'm pleased for you and wish you the best on your new path. None of what I'm about to say is intended as a recommendation that you rethink it.

I see many assumptions being advanced that your WW somehow engineered the approach of her friend. That could be true, but it's by no means a foregone conclusion. In my years here, I've seen many WS who are upset that a friend or family member took it upon themselves to attack the BS. Some people are just obnoxious know-it-alls who are bound and determined to have their say, and it doesn't occur to them (or they don't care) that no one involved is interested in their opinion.

It's quite possible that your WW hasn't told her friends the full scope of her transgressions. I haven't shared graphic sexual details with my friends because I'm pretty sure they aren't interested in hearing it, any more than I need a rundown on their own sexual exploits. I also know that some of them don't understand why my affair is still a big deal so many years after the fact. If my H decided to divorce me tomorrow, they would consider it to be an overreaction. I've explained why I would not, and they respect that, but respect is not agreement. They have, I hope, more class than to tell him so.

I read this as another aspect of your W's seeking external validation. She probably can't/won't face herself, so she has enlisted her friend(s) to act on her behalf. I'm very sorry you have to experience harassment from her friends.

But selfish? You bet! I urge you to celebrate your selfishness! Look, if your W were willing and able to meet your very reasonable requirements for R, I'd be all for you to R. But you've decided R is not for you. So be it.

Don't get me wrong. I am convinced that a good life requires giving. It also requires taking. For most of us, there are people who want what we want to give and who will give what we want to take. That doesn't apply to you and your W. Your 'selfishness' frees both of you to find a good match.

I see many assumptions being advanced that your WW somehow engineered the approach of her friend. That could be true, but it's by no means a foregone conclusion. In my years here, I've seen many WS who are upset that a friend or family member took it upon themselves to attack the BS. Some people are just obnoxious know-it-alls who are bound and determined to have their say, and it doesn't occur to them (or they don't care) that no one involved is interested in their opinion.

We can't say with certainty that AN's WW engineered the approach of her friend, but it would be consistent with how she went about her initial disclosure, which was to enlist an ally and then unload on AN when he's in a place or situation from which he can't easily remove himself. But regardless of whether that confrontation was planned, it's pretty clear WW is rallying their friend group to her side. The friend's talking points were literally a one-to-one match of WW's grievances.

If that strategy doesn't work, her next attempt might be alienate AN from his teenage kids and use them as shock troops against him. This is not outside the realm of possibility, considering that WW has threatened to sue for full custody of the kids and has expressed that she, as a mother, feels she has a greater ownership in them than he does (regardless of the law).

AN, if you haven't talked to your kids yet about the fact that you and your wife are likely splitting up, then you need to give it some serious thought now. You already know that your wife won't be held accountable for the destruction of the marriage and will throw you under the bus with them, as she has done with everyone else close to you.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 5:24 PM, Monday, April 24th]

I see many assumptions being advanced that your WW somehow engineered the approach of her friend. That could be true, but it's by no means a foregone conclusion.

True. However, we can say for certain that all of the info the friend has about the A, the Dday, and the aftermath, all of it came from AN's WW (because we know it didn't come from AN). Clearly, the friend has a strong opinion that AN is the one who is fucking up any chance of R. Ergo, this is what the WW is telling her friends about AN, behind his back.

It was me. I feel silly speaking up about this, but I'm proud that my suggestion was a good one and I want the Brownie points! laugh blush

Sorry SacredSoulSister - my mistake! You were the first - and it was an excellent suggestion as it crystalized all the concerns I had with continuing the R.

Ok... so I should have been clearer in my status update.

MC has finished between WW and I.
ST Counselling as a couple is not continuing.

IC (separate) for WW and I is continuing
ST (separate) for WW and I is continuing.

"Why is the ST continuing???" I hear you all screaming...

Well - even after D, WW will remain the mother of my children, and therefore I have a vested interest in any future relationship she may have in the future to be stable and functional. WW severely dysfunctional and warped attitudes towards sex are clearly not conducive to healthy partnerships (whether those relationships look like our M or her A - neither are likely to produce a healthy result).

and for me - I want to make sure I am starting from a healthier place..... whenever I am ready to jump back in the pool again... (i'm not - I need to do a lot of work on me before I'm ready to enter that space again).

I've also signed up for gym membership, coz healthy body healthy mind right??

Hope this clears things up somewhat...

AN.

MC has finished between WW and I.
ST Counselling as a couple is not continuing.

IC (separate) for WW and I is continuing
ST (separate) for WW and I is continuing.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought that you were continuing ST together.

What you're doing sounds smart to me. Regardless of the decision that you make regarding whether to end your marriage, you'll be in a healthier position in a year.

Well, your WW's combination of bargaining and threats i.e., bluffing, combined with your being accosted by WW's friend (who was way out of line), really corroborate the impression that all these years you were being railroaded into R, and R that does not serve your needs. And that your WW is NOT remorseful--she still seems to believe that if she does X, Y, and Z, then you 'should' forgive her for her affair and stay in the marriage. Put another way, she thinks she can *bargain* her way to R--she is not getting the pain YOU are in, the pain caused by her actions. She still does not get it.

Even if WW didn't have her friend accost you like that, it's next to impossible that this is the first time that you have encountered someone in your circle who believes that you should rugsweep. And just as much, what has your WW been telling her friends? You absolutely do need to ignore this sort of pressuring--these people are not truly your friends.

I am just really happy that you are now finally taking steps to get out of infidelity. A point that is just as important though, is your WW's lack of remorse. That is an even bigger problem than your WW's sexual issues.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:10 PM, Monday, April 24th]

Meanwhile AN, I am really happy you are going to the gym again! Heavy compound movements--barbell squats, deadlifts, and the Olympic lifts--done a few times a week, will help with EVERYTHING.

Have you considered CrossFit by the way?

(I apologize for the cross-posting. I see now that your counseling--the counseling for both you and your WW--is entirely individual. That is indeed the wise choice. I edited my last post accordingly.)

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 7:07 PM, Monday, April 24th]

I was also in your position, except I waited 5 years instead of 3. None of our friends knew about what she had done, but most witnessed the abrupt turnaround in our marriage from one of me being a pretty attentive spouse, to then paying little or no attention to her. After in came out, like you they just had a general idea of an affair, but without the dirty details that for me were unforgivable. They also knew her affair was just a few weeks, and some of her friends, and even my kids thought I was a bastard for divorcing her. Especially as they could see how hard she tried to make things up to me, and how I treated her.

I really don’t think she put them up to it, but it’s a natural consequence that when men cheat they are cads, but when women cheat it’s because the husband is lacking in something. Very rarely do you see women getting as much venom as a man. Not in every case for sure, but the guy seems to get blamed for cheating, while "the marriage" takes the blame if it’s a woman.

If you do get divorced then a lot of these people fall by the wayside. I still have some of my old friends from when we were together, but as a single guy things change a lot. I really didn’t want to be the third wheel with our old friends. The ones that were close and I liked I still see, but the majority kind of gradually fell by the wayside. That said, it is much easier for the guy. My wife’s friends gave her support, but still didn’t want her hanging around their husbands too much. Probably for good cause, as many of the husbands now looked at her as easy and did make some plays. She never bit, and kind of became a recluse.

But like I said, if you divorce these friends will drop, and if you don’t, they will once again love you for being so understanding. I still wouldn’t get into the dirty details. It just makes you look bad. Keep your head held high. If they know she cheated, that’s enough.

I did often wonder however of the women pushing for reconciliation was because they were actually cheating themselves, or had once cheated and were terrified that if I waited so long, maybe it would spur their husbands into looking at the situation differently.

[This message edited by waitedwaytoolong at 6:59 PM, Monday, April 24th]

Aspect- Based on your feedback about your WW, its clear she is still not a candidate for R, the sex issues aside.

Her threatening to leverage the kids for full custody is a huge RED Flag. She is weaponizing the kids. This is not a safe WW that's ready for R. This is someone whose still very much about herself. I know you've kinda put R on the backburner as you were going through ST, IC, MC, and now it sounds like its all off the table save for individual sessions, and its the right approach. SHe's just not a great person, and counseling hasn't really helped her in anyway. Its like she's stuck from her childhood, and its really fucked her up. Its not up to you to see that she gets fixed under your watch anymore.

Her messaging to her friends/whoever will listen about how you're the bad guy, the selfish person, and continuing to push that narrative is further proof she is not only an unsafe partner, but continues to show her WW mindset. She was accountable only quickly for her transgressions, now you have to just accept that shit sandwich and move on. There is no expectation that you fully heal, or even find the root of the issues, they want a rugsweep, and you're the bad guy for not being able to quickly move on. Easy for them to say when they haven't walked a day in your shoes like the rest of us in this forum. If anything infidelity has changed the way I hear and view other peoples issues, b/c until I walked a mile in these shoes, I was never able to fully grasp what someone deal with cheating was going through. Never in a million years. Those ladies have no fucken idea, not until they have to eat that same shit sandwich.

As for your WW. I hope that you see now she's just not a candidate for continuing to go down the path of R and counseling with. Maybe in the future she will be, maybe not ever, but why should you continue to trust her. After 3 yrs, she hasn't gotten it. She's might have been a better candidate right after DDay, but now, it seems like she's gotten bitter and has taken to blaming you, and self preservation. Whatever you may get in the formal of Vanilla sex, or even slightly better, maybe you get head every once in a while, but how can you ever know if its indeed something that she is doing b/c she really wants YOU, rather than b/c she just doesnt want to deal with D. You can go find someone whose normal with sex, and there won't be that question of is she begrudgingly doing these acts b/c she doesnt want me to divorce her, rather than a willing participant who really wants to do those things with you. Plenty of us have moved on to better lives. You wife is riddled with issues, seems like a smart idea to take stock, separate for the year and open your eyes to what you truly deserve for the rest of your days. I don't see your WW as being a good partner for you or anyone else for that matter until she can fix her shit, and there's not telling if it will ever get there.

AN, I’m curious as to how your wife views the information she has received from the ST. Does she understand that her views on sex is warped.
Also, what is her understanding of why you are divorcing her. Is it because of the affair or because she can’t make herself do for you what she did for AP.
I admit I’m not knowledgeable about sexual dysfunction such as this, but to save her marriage, I would think she could alter her thinking somewhat. This is probably naive on my part. Just curious since this is a bit unusual.

Congrats on your handling of this. It is smart to start the separation now. I am curious as to what changes or sacrifice s she has made. It doesn't seem you have moved the ball in three years.

While we are on this, I don't know that I would refer to this person as a 'mutual' friend.

At least not anymore. It didn't look like she ever tried to get your version of the story before speaking her mind.

Sorry it's been so long between drinks.... but it's been a bit of a whirlwind here these past few weeks.

The separation process has been quite involved, with decoupling of finances and formalising the separation notice. Because we are going to separate "under the same roof" we have had to sign declarations etc. as evidence for the eventual divorce.

WW has moved from travel trailer to guest room (there was no way she was getting the master bedroom!) and I have removed her things from my room (seems weird to be calling it that now!). We have signed a "separation agreement" which although my lawyer admits is not completely legally binding, it will be useful in demonstrating "intent" further down the road. Shared accounts have been split 50/50, with household expenses/school fees/house/car payments being split pro rata based on income (seems fair). We are concentrating on navigating the co-parenting/roommate relationship we are now in, which although rocky at times, seems to be working.

At this stage, our investment property will also remain as a joint asset until we ultimately decide to sell or if one of us wishes to move there. My lawyer recommends keeping all options open there.

I have been working through things with IC and ST and am discovering a lot about myself, particularly how my views on sex and relationships has been warped through my marriage.

Surprisingly, WW has also kept up with the IC and ST. WW has also opened up far more to me in the past couple of weeks than I think she has in the entirety of our marriage. She has shared her childhood trauma and abuse completely unpromted, of which I was completely clueless. To be honest, I'm not really sure how to respond to all of it. If I had known this pre A, we could have probably worked on it and she may have been in a much healthier place - but now - it just seems far too late. So many things that used to confuse me during our M, have now, with context, are more understandable. So far I have been strong in resisting her advances for intimacy.

I informed the OBS that we were separating and divorcing. She confirmed her own separation from her WH, and is about 3 months ahead in the countdown process. AP has moved out, and apparently is up to old tricks with someone new. OBS also surprised me by offering to get together if I wanted to "compare notes" or "receive comfort". At this stage, I know I'm not ready for that, and besides, in my view, both of us are still married (albeit separated), and those vows still mean something to me at least. OBS said she understood, and that if I wanted, once D is complete, asked me to "look her up" lol. *surprised*!

As far as friends reactions to the news - I have received the whole spectrum of responses, from hateful vitriol to warm and fullsome support. I have also been out and out propositioned, which has been surprising.

Seems everyone is suddenly a relationship expert.

I have started at the gym, and am already noticing results. So yeah.... so much on my plate.

As usual, any comments/suggestions are gratefully received.

Cheers.