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Yet, if someone says TRUE reconciliation is a unicorn, and say they're speaking from their own personal experience, and the experience of others, they're met with comments from members,and staff, telling them what they've said is a generalization, and not allowed.

There is a difference between sharing your experience and sharing it as the ONLY possibility.

If I said my TRUE R is the ONLY thing out there, and that happy divorced people are Unicorns — I would expect a great deal of pushback on that.

It's completely true that BS must deal with / heal from the A regardless of D or R. The difference is they are not reminded by the constant presence of WS, look, smell and sound.

It's completely true that BS must deal with / heal from the A regardless of D or R. The difference is they are not reminded by the constant presence of WS, look, smell and sound.

You are saying this is a potential benefit of choosing D, it removes a difficulty in personal healing. I can totally see that. Doesn’t mean it’s an impossible barrier.

@Hellfire, just think of the other thread on drinking and consent. You asked for us men to listen to the women’s lived experience. This is a lot like that, IMO.

You are saying this is a potential benefit of choosing D, it removes a difficulty in personal healing. I can totally see that. Doesn’t mean it’s an impossible barrier.

Yes, I see the healing of the BS as a rightful priority after infidelity.

Of course, nothing is impossible. It certainly helps in R if one is predisposed by personality to tolerate these things (no hard boundaries or at least not as it pertains to this subject matter). I do think cake eaters (not those in exit affairs) know their spouses and, on some level, know they have a decent chance of getting away with it (that is able to stay in the marriage after some mea culpas and some punishments). These WS are often proven right.

Other factors I've seen is age...someone is older and the thought of (or practicality of) rebooting their lives is too much. Codependency, sunk cost facacy, children, money / life style changes can all also play a role in the decision.

Of course, nothing is impossible.

To my ears, the term "unicorn" implies impossibility. Cause, you know, unicorns aren’t real and all.

To my ears, the term "unicorn" implies impossibility. Cause, you know, unicorns aren’t real and all.

I completely agree, not unicorns. Ultimately rare I think when all things considered.

Codependency, sunk cost facacy, children, money / life style changes can all also play a role in the decision.

You left out, "Good candidate for R." That exists, right?

It certainly helps in R if one is predisposed by personality to tolerate these things (no hard boundaries or at least not as it pertains to this subject matter).

Yikes. Passive aggressive much?

See, this is why I think it is absolutely comical that certain people accuse SI of being "pro R" when, while it clearly assists with both, it tolerates a loud, vocal group who is flat out pro D. (No similar group of pro R types even exists.) The comments quoted above prove this, along with the topic of this thread (as just a few of the hundreds of examples of emasculating and condescending all-knowing insults, but copying and pasting from the many other threads with comments like this is not allowed).

I guess we overlook the outrageous generalizations and bitterness from the pro D group because we feel sorry for all you've lost to infidelity? It's a lot of loss, so I get it. But to accuse SI of being pro R is laughable. We allow you to insult those who R at every turn. You've driven countless members away with these bitter comments. I hope you can eventually heal the hurt that makes you all lash out.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 8:43 PM, Saturday, March 4th]

You left out, "Good candidate for R." That exists, right?

Of course. It seems so obvious that if that wasn't there no one should consider R. That should be the main prerequisite. I was just saying these other things also factor in.

For the record, since some of your venom is directed at me, I think SI is well, and fairly, represented on both sides (not R focused) and I appreciate many of the posts on both sides and have learned a lot. There are a bunch of bright introspective people on here.

Of course, nothing is impossible. It certainly helps in R if one is predisposed by personality to tolerate these things (no hard boundaries or at least not as it pertains to this subject matter).

Do you even realise how insulting this is for a large amount of users on this forum INCLUDING the founder of SI?

I assure you my WH was convinced on dday that we are over and he’s lost his family. I have clear boundaries and my WH knows there are no additional chances. It’s his choice how he’s using this information going forward.

I wasn’t old on dday and I’m still not considering myself old at 43 (38 on dday). My kids were 10 and 16 on dday and divorce would have been pretty straight forward, by law I would have got single use of the house till my youngest would have turned 18 whilst WH would have still paid 50% of the bills and child support. We have an additional property 10 minutes away from our house where WH could have lived and the kids could have spent the time however they wished between the properties. We discussed it and agreed it.

I am financially independent and I had a full time job all my life. On dday I would have been fine financially as above seeing that WH had to pay child support, today I could break 100% free without any child support or anything else besides splitting our properties 50/50. I have a successful career and I earn pretty well, my life would not change drastically if we divorced.

I feel sorry for all of you who try to convince me (us, those truly reconciled) that I am lacking something , boundaries, or that I suck it up every day and compromise for my children or any other reasons. One thing I’d never do is remaining married just for my kids, my parents did that and I saw first hand what a bad idea that was.

The people lacking in this conversation are those incapable to understand that life is not black and white, that there is not only one solution to every situation, that grace can be offered when remorse is truly existent. That redemption exists. That I’d rather be married to the man I love, the one I chose to have children with and build my life with, if he is capable to truly take accountability and ownership of his actions and work hard at proving he’s a better human each day.

The people exhibiting lack of growth are those incapable to accept other people’s reality just because it didn’t happen to them.

I get it, you need to create some sort of narrative where somehow you landed in the better position because you were ‘oh so much better than those suckers who have poor boundaries and have miserable lives anyway’. I strongly advise you to try some introspective work in order to find out why other people potentially being miserable and compromising their lives (when they clearly tell you they’re not) makes you feel better, like you’re in some sort of privileged position.

I can tell you one think: through all these posts I am yet to find a BS claiming true reconciliation trying to make themselves feel better by stating those D’ed BSes are miserable anyway, so they may as well remain married, meanwhile there are a series of posts from D’ed BSes picking themselves up and making horrible assumptions about reconciled BS and their sucking marriages.

By the way, I know at least 3 other BSes who used to post on this site who are happily reconciled and leading beautiful lives. They don’t post here (anymore) first because they have moved on, secondly I suspect because of threads like these.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 10:02 PM, Saturday, March 4th]

I believe if requisite factors fall into alignment, R is absolutely possible.

Requisite factors for the WS and the BS. Both must be good candidates for R.

That’s what puts the seemingly Unicorn-esque complexion on reconciliation. The fact that BOTH parties have to have the necessary qualifications, desire, devotion, determination, self awareness, introspection ability, empathy, intelligence, patience, etc, etc AND, their pre-existing contributing psychological issues are not too disabling, can be adequately treated, treated while simultaneously engaging effectively in reconciliation.

It‘s a monumental effort to pull off R and involves two extremely determined well actualized self-aware individuals with a high degree of maturity.

Many WSs are so broken that, although they do love their BS, they are too disabled to initiate and follow through with their own repairs let alone rehabilitate their BS and the marriage. "Medice, cura te ipsum." It’s hard to fill the cup of other’s when you can’t fill your own. Soon after D-Day most WSs are in absolutely no shape to suddenly become caregivers. Caregiving, in many cases, is the antithesis to selfish wayward behaviors and is a whiplashed redirection from one extreme to the other. From selfish, uncaring, compartmentalizing cheater to nurturing, empathetic remorseful WS.

So yeah, R is F..ing hard, and anyone out there that’s successfully pulled it off has my sincere admiration and, probably has proven the resilience and fidelity of a marriage more so, than those marriages never tested by such adversity.

Reality Blows,

I think you nailed it with a very strong and succinct take:

I believe if requisite factors fall into alignment, R is absolutely possible.

Requisite factors for the WS and the BS. Both must be good candidates for R.

That’s what puts the seemingly Unicorn-esque complexion on reconciliation. The fact that BOTH parties have to have the necessary qualifications, desire, devotion, determination, self awareness, introspection ability, empathy, intelligence, patience, etc, etc AND, their pre-existing contributing psychological issues are not too disabling, can be adequately treated, treated while simultaneously engaging effectively in reconciliation.

It‘s a monumental effort to pull off R and involves two extremely determined well actualized self-aware individuals with a high degree of maturity.

Many WSs are so broken that, although they do love their BS, they are too disabled to initiate and follow through with their own repairs let alone rehabilitate their BS and the marriage. "Medice, cura te ipsum." It’s hard to fill the cup of other’s when you can’t fill your own. Soon after D-Day most WSs are in absolutely no shape to suddenly become caregivers. Caregiving, in many cases, is the antithesis to selfish wayward behaviors and is a whiplashed redirection from one extreme to the other. From selfish, uncaring, compartmentalizing cheater to nurturing, empathetic remorseful WS.

So yeah, R is F..ing hard, and anyone out there that’s successfully pulled it off has my sincere admiration and, probably has proven the resilience and fidelity of a marriage more so, than those marriages never tested by such adversity.

I would only add even if all of the requisite factors above align — some good people fighting hard for R will not make it back.

And I never imagined this would be an adversity I would face and never even knew R was a thing. Or if R was a thing, I’d want it. That’s a big reason my wife planned to take her secret to the grave and didn’t tell me for 18-years.

Ultimately, I only hope any of us dealing with the unique Hell of infidelity find some peace on the other side, regardless of the chosen path.

Well, this is a tough thread to unwind for me. Everyone keeps providing evidence that SI is not "pro-R", but there sure does seem to be a sizable group of people hammering rather hard against those who are saying that R is not possible. Hmmm.

I think it may be helpful to see a specific example of what exactly constitutes one of "the outrageous generalizations and bitterness from the pro D group". I don't certainly do not think Never2Late's post falls in that category. In fact, I believe he is spot-on in his analysis that most couples who stay together after the affair are unhappy. For every so-called Happy-R story we read of several of the henpecked BH or the BW whose WH is still up to his old ways.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 2:15 AM, Sunday, March 5th]

but there sure does seem to be a sizable group of people hammering rather hard against those who are saying that R is not possible.

Those who are saying R is not possible are either 1) intentionally ignoring multiple people’s first hand testimony, 2) calling them delusional, or 3) calling them liars. In the face of members of this community saying they have R’d well, what basis does anyone have to say R is not possible?

1. I also think some CONTEXT is in order. First, the OP who started this thread is in very early days himself and is dealing with a huge emotional storm. I think people recognize that already though. Second and more relevantly, we have currently several BHs who are trying to R with a spouse who is NOWHERE NEAR Remorse and who is hardly even Regretful. In fact these BH are even going so far as to try doing their WW's work for them. Has that EVER worked? Ironically these BH probably would have a lot more success in their journey to R if they filed for D. It probably would be what would wake the WW up, if that is even possible that is.

2. I don't consider R of 5 or fewer years to really be R, yet. Call me "bitter" but I said what I said. Too many stories on here start with "s/he had an affair 8 years ago and I thought we R'd, but now s/he is acting funny again..."

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 2:54 AM, Sunday, March 5th]

The reality is that a very high percentage of those who choose to R will end up divorce within 10 years. However many you divorce will remarry and will divorce again.

Yes indeed. A far more likely outcome than a successful R is D and meeting someone 'far better' than WS ever was. We have witnessed that on here bunches of instances on here too.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 2:30 AM, Sunday, March 5th]

I’m not putting my story in as evidence, I’m way to early to be a part of any category definitively. But I am listening to others and defending the logical conclusions that their testimony points to.
I’d be very interested to understand what the statistics are in the happy/unhappy crossed with D/R, tracked over time. But I’ve not seen anyone report anything like that in a scientific way. So then all we are left with is our guts and guesses. You know what they say, everyone has an opinion and ….

Yet, if someone says TRUE reconciliation is a unicorn, and say they're speaking from their own personal experience, and the experience of others, they're met with comments from members,and staff, telling them what they've said is a generalization, and not allowed.

You can also flip that on its head and say that not a single soul on this site argues that divorce is a viable option. Not on this thread, not by staff, not by those that have reconciled. If everyone agrees, there is no argument or discussion to be had is there?

People are always welcome to opinions, but if people have evidence of the contrary they are apt to point it out. I can’t imagine a scenario that someone would argue that true divorce does not exist.

Telling someone that R is a possibility under certain circumstances is very different than telling someone to R and should not be conflated, yet here we are, again.

No true R is just a "no true scottsman" fallacy.

Anyone that R'd gets to self identify that way. No point in arguing the contents of R.

If they are uncomfortable in their M, they can always change their minds and leave. Heck over 10 years even many M's experiencing no infidelity fail. People fail, sometimes even when they try their best.