SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

He’s trying to show you he understands what he did and how much he blew up your life.

Where did you get that from Austin's post, 1stWife? Everything he said to her was about what how horrible he feels, what he wants, and how badly he's been affected. He's not factoring Austin's wants and needs at all.

Also, he might be entirely sincere in his desire to keep his marriage, but that doesn't mean that the tactics he's using aren't manipulative.

I am going to threadjack, because I need to remind everyone that we all manipulate constantly throughout our lives. It is not a bad word we just use it that way. Babies manipulate their parents by smiling and cooing. We manipulate people to give us the best deals. We manipulate our spouses, our parents, our friends, our bosses, everybody. Of course he’s manipulating her. Why wouldn’t he? He does not want to lose his marriage and he’s going to do everything in his power to get it, to keep it, to hang on. It’s up to her to decide whether or not she will allow herself to be badly manipulated and understand his fear and pain. She has great advice and support here but in the end she makes the decisions.

C2H:

Manipulate: to control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously.

As you can see, manipulate is not a synonym of persuade or convince; it’s duplicitous means of achieving the latter.

No, not everyone manipulates. Infants aren’t even capable of guile; it’s too advanced a cognitive skill.

When you love and care about someone as a person, and without selfish intent, you respect their choices and agency, even if it contradicts the outcome you want.

And no one has said that Austin has to follow our advice and that her life isn’t her own. In fact, we’ve all praised her for how well she’s handled a situation that would destroy most people and has destroyed many of us.

/threadjack

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 6:59 PM, Thursday, March 2nd]

Your ex may have regret and the beginning of remorse or understanding of the damage done, but he’s got a long way to go. Whatever mindset he built or his FOO environment influenced that enabled him to give himself permission to conduct this affair/ create OC…..takes time and concentrated work to tear down. He may get there, for himself, his children, etc… None of us knows what effort he will put in or what the result will be. Time as they say, will tell.

He may think he’s fighting ‘for the marriage’, but the marriage that existed is gone. And his actions now can’t change what happened or your agency over the rest of your life.

A sign of progress on his side, as others have mentioned, is to respect your choice. He’s obviously not there yet.

He seems, from what you have written, entitled. Entitled to travel uninvited for closure, to a feelski, too a passive sex pass & to not sign divorce papers. Even in the act of ‘fighting for you’ he implies that you can and should tolerate all that comes with the new normal he created…… to be together.

I admire your desire to act with integrity and to make future familial events a positive experience.

Right now you are at the beginning of a painful divorce process.

-Will he respect your choice, be fair and timely in submissions and division of assets?

-Will he pout, drag things out and drive the costs up because he can’t do it.

-Will he go back to the OW (because you gave him no choice)?

And so on…..

Only time and his actions in this process will tell you if there is something to salvage in some type of relationship.

He will show you who he is one way or the other.. believe it.

[This message edited by redrock at 9:12 PM, Thursday, March 2nd]

I'm not understanding analyzing the WS at this point.

The OP has made her decision. What the WS thinks, feels, or tries really isn't relevant anymore. Am I missing something?

Divorce, or for that matter ,reconciliation, are a process as well as a choice.

Taking consideration the actions/behavior/character of the person you will be negotiating the dissolution of a shared lifetime is important.

I would caution the OP that no matter what her intentions are for the short and long term future, she should take a good hard look at the actions of her STBX as things move forward and let that influence her perspective as it comes.

I'm not understanding analyzing the WS at this point.

The OP has made her decision. What the WS thinks, feels, or tries really isn't relevant anymore. Am I missing something?

A lot of times, BS's in this position have a hard time struggling with empathy for their STBX, so much so that it can invoke guilt about their choice. We're accustomed to feeling empathy for our spouse. At a time when they're experiencing so much emotional stress while struggling with the consequences of their own choices, the compulsion to soothe is often difficult to put aside.

Understanding that the WS is often initially acting out of stress and self-involvement rather than personal growth can help to bolster a BS's boundaries. Maybe things will change down the road and maybe they won't. But a clear-eyed assessment of the WS can be an invaluable tool for developing and maintaining personal boundaries.

I agree with ChamomileTea. I think you see how understanding your STBX can help strengthen your boundaries.

I just wanted to say how sorry I am you are going through this. In the midst of all this you have a good head on your shoulders. Sending strength and respect. The AP seems crazy. Let me see if I understand the timeline: the A basically ended late summer/ early fall of 2021. You moved to Miami, but as far as you have been told by your kids, your WH avoided the AP who then moved thousands of miles away to NJ and he had no contact with her. At the time when you found out about the A, your WH admits he acted out of lust and had no feelings for the AP. (Seems like this is one of those insanely destructive MLC A’s as your WH was supremely selfish pursuing a younger woman.). So the AP now in NJ goes through nine months of pregnancy and never informs your WH she is pregnant. She has the baby in June 2022, and then waits 7 more months to drop the bomb to tell him that she had his baby, permanently destroying your M and probably alienating his children for good. Crazy. I am so sorry this has happened to you. WS are so blind to the damage they can cause when they seek to have their ego stroked because they feel they are getting older. Just my two cents.

I have been reading the comments, and thank you. I really appreciate the feedback and info. This is all just overwhelming. I posted that my husband showed up, he decided t make it a vacation because he is still in Miami and not leaving until Sunday. He has been respectful and he has not shown up uninvited. I think our conversation made it clear what I wanted, which was a divorce. Thank You for saying I'm being kind. I know he messed up, but he doesn't deserve to be mistreated. I'm not the kind of person to mistreat people.

To answer the question of how he thinks he can fix everything with his Dick? and does he think he has a magical appendage!? May the OW being young as she is falls for it, and that's why maybe he assumed it would work with me???

I did have an issue with the way he was disrespectful by trying to initiate sex. He definitely won't fix this with his penis. Yes, that penis is the reason why we are where we are today. It also makes me uneasy around him. He almost feels like a stranger to me now. I don't think I could be intimate with him if I tried. It's been almost two years??? Since he stopped touching me. I have lived in Miami for almost a year now. We were talking and rekindling a friendship and on the road to reconciliation, we spoke through facetime and text, etc. So there has been zero contact. The last time I even touched the man was 2021, it was him hugging me and kissing me for an awkwardly long time at the airport, he had stopped touching me, no sex nothing. That should have been a red flag. The kiss was desperate, and the hug was long and desperate. I think about it now and I wonder, how does this man even still have an interest in me?

Today he did send me a really long text, and he was apologizing for the overt sexual move he made. He knew it made me very uncomfortable. It has really been bothering him because he never wants to disrespect me again. I accepted his apology. We spoke for several minutes. I told him that I really need for him to sign the divorce papers. I needed to move on. This was really hurting me and I hate the way that I feel right now. He very reluctantly said he would do anything to make me stop hurting, and that he would sign the papers because he was tired of hurting me.

I just hope he sticks to his word. I think he will. He has been behaving selfishly. But I think after seeing me, in person he, sees how much pain I've been in. Im loving my new apartment, but he said he couldn't sleep after he left and seeing me alone. He's scared fr me and he is sad for me, being so far away from friends and family. But it's what I needed to move forward and not go crazy.I do feel lonely. I feel guilty. Talking to mmy kids today and telling them I have made a choice. They respect my choice. They support me. But my kids said. "Mom, we're not ging to lie, seeing that Dad is truly sorry and that he's so in love with you, and can't have you, hurts." I hate that my kids are hurting. My husband has told them he is to blame for everything, but they still hurt because we are hurting and I know this will affect any relationships they will have in the future.

To answer another question about the OW. Yes, she did keep the pregnancy and birth from him! We were on a pretty good path to reconciliation. Virtual-MC and communication. Then Like she knew we were working on putting our family back together she blew it all up! I think this is why my Husband is seemingly so selfish, because he was giving 100%, read the books, was going to IC and this Baby news was a "SHOCK" because the baby isn't a newborn! It's been months. Now she seems to be doing this for a Moneyplay, she hasn't made any arrangements for him to see his son. She just wants his money, which she she get, for the baby! Other than this, He had no contact with her for months, and when I found out he ended the affair. Our son, and daughter confirmed it, my son, who is very mature and no nonsense was really on his father's ass. When our kids found out and were upset, that really whipped sense into my husband. It kills him that he let them down most of all.

I'm not putting my eggs in one basket and betting he will sign these papers once they're in front of him. I am treading lightly and I am trying too be as gracious as I can towards him. This is just so very heartbreaking. I don't want this, but I know this will be the best choice in the end.

Wow I just read all of this. First of all how heartbreaking and I'm so sorry for you and your children. What you're doing for your children is wonderful and it seems like despite this being sad and difficult you are doing very well emotionally. Sounds like he's got himself a business class seat on the plane to crazy town and I don't blame you a single bit for not taking that trip with him. You deserve this time to be able to travel, work, do things you enjoy, visit your children and someday grandchildren. This is perhaps one of the saddest stories involving infidelity I've ever heard.

I think he is lucky to have your support. I think your children are lucky to have you. I think even though your children are hurting that until they are married themselves with children of their own they won't fully comprehend the reality of what life would be like for you raising his affair partners child. This child, is a step too far and a clear sign from the universe as far as I'm concerned. I'm sorry you are sad and hurting. Not going to lie I'm a little intrigued by this spicey neighbor of yours. I hope he signs the papers so you can get excited about your new plans for your new life! Sometimes just the excitement of not knowing what's next is amazing too.

SHEWP: I love the comment "Sometimes just the excitement of not knowing what's next is amazing too."
That is a wonderful way of looking at it! Very positive. I try to stay positive.

My neighbor, he is just a friend. I think I posted previously that I am definitely not his romantic type!!! We just have a lot. He's my age but, we are in Miami. Surrounded by a LOT of beautiful young women and he loves the young women! Despite that, he's super nice! He loves spending weekends on the water, so do I. We are boat enthusiasts!

Austin76, I rarely read / post in JFO (it’s just too triggering at this time). I’m glad I opened your thread as I’m absolutely astonished with the way you’re handling this! I’d like to make two points.

1. You seem like a wonderful person – so kind, so calm, so rational, so understanding, so mature, so strong, so gracious, and at the same time not afraid to be vulnerable, that is, to admit you are overwhelmed and hurt. You are truly an inspiration and a role model! If it was me, I’d be angry with everyone and everything, I’d be disappointed and weak. I’d cry and scream and curse the fate and universe for making this my reality. I’d do all that before getting to a calm place.

I’d like to think you are already beyond that phase. I’d like to think it is because you have already distanced yourself and moved on. If that’s the case, think of this as your closure. You can now finally close that chapter of your life, and open yourself to the new, exciting, amazing things! With your attitude, there is no doubt in my mind you’re gonna have a great life! However, if you are holding in even a little bit of anger / frustration, I’d like to tell you it is ok to let it out. You don’t have to do that in front of other people in your life if you don’t want to, you can do it here. Let it out, then move on knowing you did the best for yourself.

2. I’d like to validate your decision to divorce. I understand it’s hard, sad, not fair, and not what you wanted. If I were you, I’d do the same. It is perfectly ok that you don’t want a life where you have to deal with OC and AP, no matter how you feel about your husband, and how he feels about you. You are making a good decision.

I wish you all the best, sending (((hugs)))!

How are you doing Austin76? How did the rest of WH's visit go?

I'm sorry for the long hiatus for not posting or commenting. Thanks again everyone for the feedback. I have been really busy with work and am also in the process of I.C. which is very helpful.

The Meet Up with my Husband was sad. I explained my reasoning for "needing" a divorce. I'm not in a healthy space. I know myself and I know I could not honestly be OKAY with knowing my husband had a child with another woman. The fact that he had an affair is enough to make life unbearable! I didn't want to make it all about my needs, and my feelings. I know he is hurting. He is regretting his decision. This affects him as well, even though I know I have every right to be selfish. I can't we were on the road to trying to figure out reconciliation. If it weren't for this baby. I would still be 100% into trying to work it out.

But, I can't. He deserves better. I deserve better. Our kids deserve happy and sane parents. His new family needs him. Maybe more than I do. Our children are grown and out of the home, this OW is young. She needs a father for this child. I explained this to my husband and He was understanding. He didn't want to hurt me any longer. He was trying to talk about whether is there any way we could work through this. He doesn't want a divorce.

I think my being respectful and gentle kept him calm. He was understanding. There were a lot of tears. I said we would make it easy. I really don't need anything from him. I just want what I have worked for. I want peace between us. He was very upset. But I was firm.

He returned home. I have filed. Our kids have seen him and said he acts as if he is fine, but he's a mess. a week later, there was a shift. He has returned to "I can't go through with this divorce" and he has refused to visit his baby. He says he will send money, but doesn't want a relationship. I have no intentions of staying. But I feel as if I am the reason he is feeling resentful. I don't want that to happen.

He has sent me a text saying he wants to see me. He insists he isn't trying to be disrespectful, he just needs to see me to talk. Again, I have been respectful. I told him we could speak over the phone, face time whatever. I was firm about signing the papers. He says he will respect my wishes, but he needs closure, he admitted, he's really struggling. He admitted that he is hurting and he needs his wife??!!

I did say, well he should have taken all this into consideration. He agreed. He says he has been able to think things through, he's talking to someone and it's opened up a lot of issues he had in the past. He is just adamant about returning to Miami and seeing me. He seems so desperate. I admit that makes me uneasy, because he is usually quite, pulled together.

Maybe it's just all hitting him at once. He has the legal papers, he left Miami knowing where I stand. Maybe it's setting in. He's alone and he has this young OW who is demanding him to take an action in a life he helped create and I don't know maybe he's just losing his shit!!? Maybe he is seeking comfort from me because I have always been the only person who could calm him, mentally. I was his sounding board. His voice of reason.

I don't mind "talking" but I am a little uneasy with him wanting to "see" me. So that is where I am right now. I do feel a bit better. I feel I have had closure. The pain is still tremendous. I'm disappointed and sad. But I do feel I can get through this!

Austin -
Glad you have updated and are doing relatively ok given the circumstances. A significant amount of the time when people say they want "closure" at the end of a relationship what they really mean is: tell me what can I do to change your mind and not end things. I think that’s what your husband is really searching for when he says "closure." Because he knows the why - he cheated & made a baby with another woman.

Austin76, he has to find closure within himself. In fact, I think his challenge in terms of becoming a better man in the future is that he has always relied on women (you in some respect and the OW in others) to provide him with emotional validation. He needs to learn how to be with himself.

I think you were very gracious to meet with him in Miami when you did, and although most of us advised against it, the visit turned out to be very beneficial for you. I don't think you should allow him to visit you again, however. You've been very clear about what you want and where your boundaries stand; give him an inch, and he will continue to push for more.

His selfish and self-centered attitude is reflected both in how he treats you and his attitude toward the OC. He created this mess, but feels entitled to keep you as his wife. He created an innocent child, but refuses to fulfill is parental obligations because he sees the child as an impediment to him getting what he wants. Your needs and the needs of the OC don't factor into his mental calculations at all.

For your sake, and the sake of your kids, I hope that he will do the right thing and proceed with the divorce as amicably and with as little drama as possible. For the OC's sake, I hope he's able to pull himself together and be a decent father. A human being's inherent value isn't based on the circumstances of their conception.

Austin,

Bluerthanblue wrote it best. He is a childish and selfish individual. He wants to discard this other child b/c its not his ideal, but then again, you weren't his ideal either, that's why he gave chase to the younger women who he found attractive.

YOu are making the right decision. No way would I have been able to live with an OC if my WW got knocked up. That would just be a constant reminder of the pain and deceit, not thank you.

You are making the right choice. Don't for one second question that. You did not cause this mess, you just have to do whats best for Austin now. Let him deal with his own consequences. Out of sight, out of mind is what's best for you to be able to move on and beyond this episode. If you let him back in, you will forever have to deal with the OW and the OC. And that's a shit sandwich thats too big and long lasting.

Austin I hope your ws thinks carefully about the baby. Over and over statistics are alarming about children growing up without a father. They don’t do well in school, they start acting out etc. He needs to put aside what he wants and figure out how to co-parent that baby.

You will be in your new home enjoying your new life and you will not see, or hear about, his life except where it deals with your children.

He did this to himself.

Take good care of your health. You are going to have a lot of joy and plain old fun on the water. Happy sailing.

In my first post on your thread I mentioned that if you were to reconcile you should be accepting of the child. I also mentioned that this could be done with a "normal" coparenting relationship towards the child’s mom – the OW.
I’m fine with your decision to divorce. It is a great way to get out of infidelity, and his affair plus the child would be more than enough for many to choose divorce. In fact – I think his reactions in denying the child a relationship reflect more on his character and why he isn’t really the catch he thinks he is…

But keep in mind the child will be involved in your life in some indirect – and possibly direct – way.
Your grown children will hopefully have some interaction with their new sibling and hopefully that will be positive for both groups. I would dread to think of a young life feeling ignored by his/her father and the father’s whole family.
You posts have shown a level of maturity, acceptance and reality. I hope you find it in you to separate what your husband did – the betrayal – and the life it created.

Bigger, I can't speak for Austin76, but I think she's shown immense compassion for the child; in fact, she said she supported her husband being an active father but knew that it wouldn't be possible for her to remain in a relationship with him.

If OC is going to have a relationship with Austin76's kids, it should be because her ex-husband stepped up to the plate, took responsibility for his OC, and helped facilitate a relationship with them. But at the end of the day, everyone in this story (except OC) is an adult who can decide who they want involved in their life or not. It's not Austin76's fault if they choose not to have a relationship with OC.