SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is going to be a long post and I apologize. First, thank you for accepting me here. I had a few folks over at the Reddit AOAI subreddit direct me here for more help. We’ve been together 15 years, married 7 and have two kids and she’s a SAHM. I’ll start with DDay 1 and go from there.

DDay 1. December 1st of last year starts rather coincidentally. My wife was letting me look at something on her phone and a messenger message popped up from some guy asking her to come cuddle with him and hang out for a little while. I asked what was that and when I go into her messages there is another message from him asking her to come rub his back. Before I can see more, she snatches her phone from me, runs in the bathroom and deleted everything. I blew up and left the house for two hours. She sent me some bullshit screenshot from this guy telling her it was just a joke like I was going to believe she didn’t tell him to do that (the ironic thing here is this guy ended up being the only thing that was mostly the truth. She lied about hanging out with him but I had her messenger password and I saw messages afterwards where he basically said it would never happen and she always blows him off. She had hung out with him before though and lied about that).

So I end up logging into her messenger constantly and see a lot of borderline stuff with yet another guy. Stuff like he says "Meet me" she says "When" he says "Now" she lols and calls him an idiot. (I pretended I saw her messaging him) She says it’s just joking and they don’t mean it and when I express to her how inappropriate it is for a married woman to be talking with another man like that even joking it’s crossing a major boundary she acts like it’s just friends joking again. I again stupidly let it go as my love blinders are still fully in place despite this. She starts deleting everything during all of this so I can only catch what I can in bits and pieces. They literally never have conversations behind "WYD" she answers something mundane like "Nothing just hanging with the kids" he says meet me and she almost always brushes him off.

Something was nagging in the back of my mind and I woke up in the middle of the night one day with this overpowering need to snoop on her phone. And I found everything. Snapchat conversation with her AP (another guy separate from the two already mentioned) about meeting up to have sex. Videos she had been sending over the course of just over a year that he had saved. It was awful. To say I was destroyed in that moment is an understatement. I record everything and then wake her up and confront her. Initially tries to deny it and I tell her I recorded everything and to stop lying. Does a great job expressing remorse and regret. She hated it the whole time, the actual sex only happened twice, she felt incredible guilt the entire time which is why she starting drinking so much. Couldn’t tell me why she didn’t stop if she felt so guilt though. She said she felt like unloved and like I hated her but always with her saying it doesn’t change what she did and she isn’t blaming me for what she did, just telling me how she justified it in her mind. Ultimately it took two weeks to sit down and talk about everything and get her to block him. Even then and now I don’t believe she told me everything.

DDay#2- So five weeks goes by and everything is relatively fine. A family member that was very close to my wife died right before Christmas and at the time I thought that brought us even closer together along with the hysterical bonding we were experiencing. There’s some more chatting with the meet me guy but he stops asking her to meet him. Mostly just WYD and response from her. We go to dinner with her family one night. Something tells me to check her messenger and there he is asking her when he can see her. They go back and forth a little bit and she ultimately says to him "How about tomorrow?". He says "Sure" she says "What time?" he never answers and sends some stupid emojis. This conversation and what occurs the next day with him still makes zero sense cause there was no way it was happening. She would have had to come up with some really elaborate lie to pull off meeting him cause we had stuff to do. The next day my SIL also asked me if she was drinking this night cause she reeked of alcohol.

The next day while I’m at work she goes off the rails. Starts texting him and another guy. She’s texting him about wanting to fuck him and meeting up with him that night while she’s having a full blown sexting session with the other guy. She also told the guy she was sexting she was in love with him and then he video calls her so he can masturbate while she watches.

Overall, both conversations slowly but steadily become unhinged which is a strong indication she’s wasted. I finally decide to involve family and I tell my SIL (my in laws are safe and 100% on my side on this). I tell her everything, show her the conversations as they’re occurring in real time and we decide we need to confront her together. I loop my MIL in as she needs to take my children. Get home and my wife is absolutely trashed. Like borderline incoherent. The audacity of her was her main focus on me breaking her trust by being on her messenger while trying to act like the only reason she did what she did was because she knew I was on her messenger and it just got out of hand. She swears to me she has never had sex with either guy but frankly I don’t believe her. The language she used with the guy she was talking about meeting up with in particular makes me think they have hooked up. The other guy has been an ongoing problem that I had foolishly thought went away awhile ago.

My wife commits to several asks I have of her after this. Full access to her phone when I want (this was actually established DDay 1), stop the lying, no more drinking, counseling within a month and block all of the guys. I should have told her she’s very lucky because I was told by several people to force her to kill all of her social media and location tracking or give her divorce papers and see how she reacts and if it can break the fog. Can you guys guess how many she followed through on since we are coming up to DDay 3?

As a side note, several folks and my SIL who has worked in mental health think my wife may have an undiagnosed cluster-b personality disorder, either BPD or bipolar based of her behavior and the also how she just went off the rails the deeper she got in the alcohol.

Upcoming DDay 3- As if this can’t get any worse. On the same day a couple days ago, I witness her do two things. She again doesn’t know I can access one of the apps she’s using for messaging. Changed her password to another I know.

So the first thing I see is she unblocks the AP on Facebook. I don’t know if she messaged him. I don’t know exactly when she did it. He also blocked me. Believe it or not that is the only reason I got suspicious. I was looking up another person and I was like "Oh be changed his profile picture" (I’ve also looked dozens of times before this so I can’t lie). Nope. Different guy, same name. He’s in can’t be found which means he blocked me.

Second thing I see is a fragmented conversation between my wife and the sexting guy talking about hiding her under a different name. I definitely missed some stuff cause I got one name but not if she had one for him as well. However they continue to talk on messenger so I’m not sure what the hell that’s about. My wife has also been trashed two days in a row she I got home from work.

So that’s where I am at. My dumb ass still loves this woman but this last one is leaning towards a bridge too far for me. I haven’t confronted her yet. I don’t even know where to begin but our kids have been sick so there hasn’t been a good time. I just don’t understand why she is trying so hard with me but still talking to these guys. Like do you want to stay together and fix the marriage or do you just want to have your cake and eat it to? I did read the article that it can take months to break through the fog. I will say I am not willing to stay just cause we have kids. I refuse to be miserable while she has boyfriends and does whatever she wants for the next 15 years of our lives to the kids are grown. No way. I guess what I’m really hoping for is for someone, anyone to tell me there is still even a sliver of hope here and to help with some guidance on what I should do about the new discoveries and confronting her.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 8:28 AM, Friday, February 10th]

[This message edited by Kevinm12 at 10:06 AM, Thursday, February 9th]

((K12))

The advice on reddit to send you here is good. You will receive advice from real pros here, people far more articulate than me.

The advice here will be to get you out of infidelity. That is obviously the goal through R or D. In order to R your wife must have REMORSE (she must feel you). It looks like she just doesn't. Do you think it is your job to R no it is hers than yours.

In her condition you would likely get custody - see an attorney yesterday.

Start the 180

Read the healing library here.

Listen to the people on SI, I promise you won't go wrong with the advice.

So sorry you are in this club no one wants to join.

Respectfully,
Organic

You said you wanted to know if she still wanted to work on the marriage.

Friend,the marriage didn't cheat. And nothing you did,or didn't do made her cheat(she actually was blaming you). She has some serious issues that caused her to cheat.

She's a serial cheater,and an alcoholic. Neither bode well for true reconciliation.

You seemed to have set down some needed requirements for you to attempt reconciliation (which is a process that takes years). And she ran right over those boundaries. So she's proven she doesn't really care.

She needs serious consequences. She needs to attend AA. She's drinking,and getting trashed, with the kids at home. That's so incredibly dangerous,and traumatizing for the kids. So, she needs to get a job, and the kids need to spend their day with someone trustworthy.

She needs to be tested for stds. She's absolutely had sex with at least one of these men.

You would do well to have her take a polygraph. She's a liar. If you are going to attempt reconciliation, you need a foundation of truth. A polygraph now will save you the trauma of further lies.

At the bare minimum, you should require..

Full transparency. You get full access to all accounts and the phone. Passwords included.

She answers all of your questions without anger or defensiveness, and zero blame.

Std tests

Complete NC with all OM.

IC and AA

No drinking

No more social media.

GPS tracking

And if she violates any of this..especially NC, or drinking, she's out of the house. She can go to her parents.

Your job is to take care of yourself and the kids. Get tested for stds. Inform all of the other men's wives. And watch her actions. If she does nothing,file for divorce. By doing nothing, she's showing you she doesn't value the marriage.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:41 PM, Wednesday, February 8th]

Oh Kevin, I am so sorry you are going through this. Many people have reconciled successfully after infidelity, but it is extremely difficult and many more fail trying. The wayward partner has to decide to do the tough work of taking a long hard look in the mirror and facing their own ugliness and character deficiencies. They have to choose it, you cannot do the work for them.

She is getting something out of this and she is getting it at the expense of you and your family unit. She doesn't seem to have had any real consequences for her abhorrent behavior and unfortunately, waywards interpret a lack of consequences as condonation. Unless she has an impetus for change, she will continue making these damaging choices.

I know she supposedly has mental issues, but that doesn't excuse her unfaithfulness. You matter too. I think you will see change once you decide that you are not going to be treated as a meal ticket any longer and you start taking action steps to get yourself out of infidelity. Once she gets a glimpse of what life is like without you, she may decide she is willing to do what she needs to do to remain married. However, you may actually find that may not be what you want any more.

Bottom line, you can only control you. If you do not change how you react to her infidelity, you will continue to get more of the same. You need to decide how much more you can take and then draw a line (and freaking stick to it). You do not deserve this and you are going to need to respect yourself enough for the both of you.

If I were talking to my newly betrayed self, I would tell her to focus on herself. To focus on her children. To start preparing for life without her wayward husband. To see a lawyer and separate the finances. We had been in "reconciliation" (in quotes because he wasn't doing the work and still had wayward thinking/behavior) for 2.5 years when I decided I had had enough and started taking those action steps. It was like a light switched with my WH when he saw I was moving on. Suddenly he would do literally whatever in order to try and save the marriage. I am still married and living with my WH, but I am still preparing for a future without him and he knows it.

"She hated it the whole time, the actual sex only happened twice"

This was from DDay 1. Do you really believe once she has already committed the deed, and by what you have revealed since that time, that she stopped her physical trysts.

She is a serial cheater, has not followed any boundaries you've set forth and has gone above & beyond in her attempts to deceive you by testing other facets to enable her continuance in her affairs.

No consequences leads to further betrayal. Letting her know she has been caught and telling her she must do this and that then you catch her again and same same. Wash Rinse Repeat. She does not love you period. If you want confirmation just read back on your post. STD tests, Divorce attorney.

Sending strength my man

[This message edited by notanotherchance at 7:29 PM, Wednesday, February 8th]

do you just want to have your cake and eat it to?

This is what all cheaters (who aren't in exit affairs) want.

Having had multiple DDays myself, my advice is to start the D process. She is not safe, and with her drinking habits, will NOT be safe. She needs a BIG wake up call, she needs to hit rock bottom in order to make any significant and lasting change. You going through all the steps we tell newly-minted BSs will not knock her out of her issues. You starting to file for D might. You can always stop the process if she pulls her head out of her ass, goes to rehab, and stops fucking other men.

Option 1) do the BS steps, and have at least 3 more Ddays and tons of Trickle Truth (TT) ("I needed closure," "I didn't think you would stay so I needed backup POSAP," "I was so depressed and he made me feel better.";
Option 2) file for divorce. No more DDays if you do divorce; far less likely to have DDays if she knows you are dead serious about kicking her to the curb.

BTW, do any of her APs have significant others? If so, tell them ASAP.

Take care of yourself. Try to stay away from alcohol, get good exercise, and make sure to keep eating.

I want to say thank you for all the advice. I made a mistake and didn’t read the newbie post first. My wife is a grade A snoop and I left way too easily identifiable information in my post if she found it so I deleted it. I am going to put this advice to good use as I’m tired of being a pay check and a doormat. I already have a consultation set up with a divorce lawyer as well. Thank you all so much.

So, let me get this straight…..you’re about to experience DD#3 and you’ve erased your first post because you’re afraid your WW might see it?

If I could quote Fox NFL Sunday: "Come on Man!"

[This message edited by Thingsthatmakeyougohmm at 3:34 PM, Thursday, February 9th]

What it comes down to is the WS has to want to do the work in order for R to have a chance. So far She hasn't and keeps dipping back into the well. In light of that what do you want? I know you'd rather R, but she's has three strikes already. You have to figure at this point she's just going to continue.
Any person with detachment from the situation would advise you to move forward with D. The toxicity in your relationship is only going to escalate as she continues to cheat and that's not fair to you or your family.

She needs serious counseling. She needs to stop drinking, and stay off social media. Even if you end up divorced. Because the slope she's sliding on isn't going to end well for her and that's going to scar your children.

Thank you, Grubs and everyone else. I’m sorry for deleting my post I just don’t want her to see it and she’s been snooping over my shoulder lately cause I’ve been reading Not "Just Friends" and she’s noticed what it’s about. This is just so damn hard and while I surprisingly have my wife’s family on my side I still feel so alone cause my family isn’t in the picture.

DDay 1 happened and I’m like "Okay, she’s destroyed me but we can come back from this cause I love her so much despite this". Then

DDay 2 happens and I rally surprising support from my SIL and MIL and I’m still thinking one more chance cause there seems to be some mental illness going on coupled with the drinking and I can’t just abandon her because of how much I love her.

But now DDay 3 is about to happen and I’m just a blithering mess and I’m thinking of leaving and it’s so hard cause I never thought I’d have to imagine my life without her and even now I still love her. I know I have to find my resolve and not cave in but it’s just so hard. But if I’m being honest with myself she’s barely given a shit about what she has done to me. She showed some decent remorse and willingness to listen after DDay 1 but she has completely shut down since DDay 2.

I should have slammed the door shut when DDay 1 happened and I feel like such a fool for not doing so. I was way too lenient. DDay 2 was literally fool me once and all that and now here we are about to have DDay 3 and the the impending end of my marriage. Thank you all again for listening. It’s time for me to worry about myself and get the help I needed and take all the advice here about putting myself first. God knows she doesn’t.

I've been down this road brother. The sooner and faster you move on the easier it will get with time. It's a soul crusher though. You have to be strong. No begging or crying or being wishy washy about what you are going to do now. You have to put your foot down and stand up for yourself to show you have self-respect and will not tolerate being destroyed by someone who promised to love and protect you. It's going to hurt whether you are with her or without her but the advantage of being without her is that she can't hurt you anymore and you can begin to try to actually heal and mend and perhaps even find love with someone who truly values and cherishes you someday. But for now, three strikes. This is a pattern of behavior now. You can't change her. Who wants to live a life as a policeman or prison warden or investigator with your gut and heart always bound up in knots over someone who has no problem lying to you and cheating on you? You deserve better. Much much better.

I’m sorry you are facing this pain. But I can tell you from experience a person with a drinking problem + a cheating problem + a lack of remorse problem is just not marriage or relationship material.

My very beautiful grandmother was married 7x. Men just loved her - but she drank too much and was never faithful. Not sober or drunk was she faithful. Nor did she care.

But every one of her H or relationships all believed they could change her. Or rescue her. Or whatever.

Save yourself. Take a step back and view your wife in the light of day. She’s got too many issues and she just does not care to change them.

That is unfortunately the reality I’m facing. At some point in the past 2-3 years she told herself it was okay to cheat. Then she found she liked the attention and whatever thrill she getting from it and cheated multiple times with different men. I have to do what is best for me and my children. We will have our confrontation Sunday. Then it will be time to start seeing the future without her.

[This message edited by Kevinm12 at 9:16 AM, Saturday, February 11th]

I’m sorry you have to face this. No one likes being the one to end a marriage.

But I think you have given her plenty of chances and opportunities to change.

Dday3 should not be happening but sadly it is. You just have to choose to save yourself & kids or continue to live in sn unhappy marriage.

Your wife chooses to make poor choices and refuses to get help for her issues. You are not obligated to sit by and be forced to watch her ruin your marriage etc.

Remember your kids are seeing this too.

I’m sorry for you but I think you don’t have many choices but to either separate or Divorce. You cannot live like this.

We will have our confrontation Sunday. Then it will be time to start seeing the future without her.

There doesn't need to be a confrontation, unless it is something that you want to do. You know what she is doing, and she certainly knows what she is doing. You can simply let her know that she is still up to her antics, and you are taking steps to get yourself out of infidelity. That's it---don't tell her what you know or how you found it. The same goes for the inlaws---just give them the heads up that she is still actively drinking and cheating.

You aren't mentally ready to walk at this time. We get it. But what you should be doing is working towards that mindset. After your attorney consultation, make another one...or more...if you don't feel confident that you have a clear picture of what divorce entails. Start separating your finances. Cancel joint credit cards. In other words, start doing the simple tasks that aren't so emotionally difficult.

The key is to get some emotional space between you and your wife. Do not engage in any conversation with your wife other than that of children and finances. I know....it's much easier said than done....but any other conversations at this time are (1) going to be totally unproductive, and (2) tear you up inside. Your goal is to detach, and engaging with her is counterproductive at this point.

Your wife has several issues going on right now, but NOTHING is going to substantially improve until she gets her addictions under control. It starts with the drinking(ask me how I know). Until she takes sobriety seriously, nothing will get resolved. And if you and the inlaws believe she has an undiagnosed illness, she obviously has to investigate this also. Ironically, and unfairly in my opinion, the cheating....the one thing that hurts you the most, falls below the others in priority. She simply is NOT a good candidate for reconciliation while her addictions remain unaddressed. Even with those under control, she may very well be an unsafe partner.

But you do have choices. You won't like many of them, but they are YOUR choices to make. The logical one is to get you out of this whirlwind of infidelity as quickly as possible. Work with what is in front of you right now---not what you want it to be. RIGHT NOW, your life is continued cheating and addictions running wild with your wife. Is that sustainable for months, or even years, more? You have to be in a best possible headspace to be the best possible parent. Work towards that.

Thank you both for both for your replies. I’m definitely focusing on myself and my children first. Posting here has really made me realize I’m prioritizing her again over myself and even then and I need to stop doing that.

Jb, I think confrontation was the wrong word. I want to basically do what you said. Tell her I know what she is still doing, she knows what she’s still doing and we are going to have to separate for real this time. I’m going to use the 180 method when I do.

But do I ask her to get help? Like real tangible help that she can prove she is trying for with me and to save our marriage? I truthfully am 70/30 leaning towards divorce either way (I won’t make a hasty decision but my anger has really moved to the front of my emotions) but is it stupid and naive to hold out even the smallest hope that there is a still a good person in there somewhere and if she gets help that person might come back out?

Mentally I have already started processing in my brain that this might and probably really be it. Even then I still have hope and as much as I want to kill it I can’t. 15 years is a long time to throw it all away but I also realize if she can’t or won’t change me and my kids can’t keep being exposed to this.

you didn't discover everything. And what you think you know is only the tip on the iceberg. She already admitted to Stime with him.

Stop hysterical bonding.

Get the whole truth, even if it means a polygraph.

Get STI testing done.

Right now she's minimizing. Gaslighting. The same old cheater lines of 'feeling unloved' or 'It meant nothing'. BLow by that bs.

Look at her texts after she went off the rails.

Stop thinking about diagnoses. It's not your problem. If she is doing this now, do you want to be security guard for the rest of your life with her ?

There is so much more you don't know.

I agree with JB. 180 hard. Gray Rock. What I would suggest is if this wasn't you posting but one of your friends, you would tell him to get out of Dodge.

Move her out and start divorce proceedings. She is a serial cheat. Don't live like this man. It's all about you right now

[This message edited by Western at 5:28 PM, Saturday, February 11th]

Hi Kevin,

Sorry you find yourself here.

But do I ask her to get help? Like real tangible help that she can prove she is trying for with me and to save our marriage?

As for asking her to get help... my suggestion is to just tell her that until she goes to work on herself you consider your present marriage destroyed. Tell her there is no marriage period while she still drinks and cheats. Tell her she must fix herself... probably with medication and counseling.

No Ask. Just Tell. Just my suggestion.

[This message edited by lrpprl at 6:34 PM, Saturday, February 11th]

My WH swore on our children's lives that I knew everything - when I did not - and wanted to just sweep everything under the rug and "move on" with me trusting his promises it would never happen again. What made him "wake up" was a little book called "Helping your Spouse to Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. It is short and to the point and good for you to help you evaluate your WW's behavior. Give her a 48 hour deadline to read it (it is short) and come talk to you about it. Mark it up in the margins if you like to underscore for her what you thing she most urgently needs to do. If she sets the book aside, or aborts the reading, or fails to come talk to you, then you have your answer. But, the book is the equivalent of a good shoulder-shaking and a cheek slap, and she may realize what she has really done and commit to be a Re-Builder.

Good luck to you.

Odonna

Kevin - My X was a high-functioning alcoholic, until he wasn't. (An attorney.) I took the advice of "sometimes you have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it" to heart and I moved out with my then 11-year-old son and gave WH a year to get help. He'd been dx'd with NPD and addictive-personality. As I'd been cautioned, he made some changes the first few months to try and prove he had changed, but he wouldn't actually go to any of the recommended therapies. He thought he was too smart for that and he could fix things on his own. Of course, that didn't work and within a few months, he was back to drinking heavily, trolling, hours of porn. Fortunately, I'd also had those months to step away and look at everything from a distance. To work through my own IC, focus on me and my son. To figure out what was fact and what was fear based--I was already 50 and basically starting over with nothing but a low-paying job I did love. At the one-year mark, I filed knowing I'd done all *I* could. He ramped up and ended up drinking himself into ICU for a month. Almost lost everything, including his life, and he still doesn't "get it." Yes, he's drinking less (apparently), but he's still denying he has a problem.

As hard as it is to get distance and let go of trying to "fix her," in the end, it's the best thing you can do for all of you. If you don't want to file yet, at least work with an attorney to get your finances separated, child arrangements set, and move your focus from her to the things you can control--you and your child's wellbeing. Right now, you still care about her deeply and she hasn't completely killed your love, but I promise, she will eventually and co-parenting with someone you despise is hell.

It's been over 10 years for me and "walking away from over 20 years" was so worth it. If he'd been willing to face his demons and found the help he needed, things might have been different, it's hard to say for sure. Certainly, HIS life would be a lot better. However, I learned the hard way that you can't fix someone else. They have to do that completely on their own, with professional help, or it's just temporary at best and the cycle will continue.

You haven't wasted these years--you've loved deeply, had a beautiful child, obviously a caring support system around you. Now it's time to put away the rearview mirror and focus on what's ahead. What can you do today to make tomorrow better? The days will be long, but the years go by in a flash.