SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don't know what to do. After almost 40 years of marriage, I believe my W has been having an emotional affair with, oh let’s call him Bozo, for the past year. She denies that there is a strong emotional connection, saying that she doesn’t even know Bozo all that well, and she also denies any physical interaction, giving the traditional "nothing happened" response even though she admits there was a strong attraction between them at first. But, she did lie to me and deceive me about the existence of the relationship at the beginning; she has said that she will not give me access to her phone; she has refused to stop seeing Bozo, even if that is a deal breaker for the marriage. On the other hand, From her behavior now, I think it is fair to infer that whatever the relationship was in the past, it is just a friendship now. She meets Bozo for coffee or lunch or, though she denies it, for drinks after work. (Bozo works in the next skyscraper over – they are not co-workers.)

She knows that her continued association with Bozo causes me immense pain, and she has apologized for causing that pain. She continues to inflict that pain, however, and she has not apologized for the lies and deceit because she doesn’t think she has done anything wrong.

I’m wondering, if she knows the pain she is causing and she hardly knows this guy as she claims, why she didn’t she drop this guy right away?

Is a purely emotional affair no big deal? If I think it is a big deal and she doesn’t, am I still justified in my objections or am I just being hyper-controlling?

Is there anyone out there who has experience with living with a Bozo of your own interfering in your marital happiness?

The omphalos of infidelity is dishonesty and secrecy (secrecy as distinct from privacy -- normally secrecy is fostered via dishonesty via omission).

One common formulation: If you're doing something with a third person outside of the presence of your spouse that you would not do in the presence of your spouse because you know your spouse would be hurt by it, or not like it, you're over the line.

Com1c, I’m sorry you find yourself here, but you are among one of the most supportive groups out there. The folks you’ll meet here are well versed in the playbook of marital infidelity (both emotional and physical).

From what you’ve written, which is all we can go by, it truly sounds like your wife is doing a lot of rug-sweeping and minimizing the intensity of her "friendship".

Just step back and read what you wrote. Your wife is currently engaged in an opposite sex friendship that involves meeting socially for meals and maybe drinks. She admits there was an attraction at some point. She realizes it’s hurtful to you, but says she won’t end it. Therefore she’s valuing this "friendship" more than her marriage. Think about that. And you say she hardly knows the guy? Really?

She’s clearly in a fog, and making decisions that are detrimental to your well being, and that of your marriage. Do you get the sense she doesn’t want to be married anymore, or does she want to have her cake and eat it too?

Her refusal to give you access to her phone is a red flag. It indicates there may be conversations or other material on there that prove this is more than just a harmless friendship.

I think you need to be crystal clear with her how damaging you find her cavalier attitude, and continuance of this friendship. You have to be prepared to follow through with separating yourself from her if she isn’t willing to put the marriage first; and do the work to regain your trust.

Please stay in touch, ask as many questions as you have, and understand all the advice you’ll receive is intended to help you heal however you choose to move forward.

Com1c,
Sorry you had to find us. As others have pointed out, right now she places more value on this "friendship" than she does on your marriage. Sounds like she’s trickle truthing you. Be prepared to discover this goes much deeper than she claims.

Check out the healing library here, especially the simplified 180. A great book for your situation is Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.

If there’s a Mrs. Bozo do whatever it takes to get to her and apprise her of her wayward husband’s behavior. Men will generally throw their affair partners under the bus to save their home deals.

if she knows the pain she is causing and she hardly knows this guy as she claims, why she didn’t she drop this guy right away?

In this point in your relationship, she doesn't love you as much as you love her.

Com1c, sorry you are here. Reading through your post, your wife does not seem to give a hill of beans how hurtful the situation is and has no intentions of stopping. It's time to be decisive and end it. She must know there are consequences to be paid for such things. It sound severe, but seek out an attorney, and then start the process of a divorce. It can be stopped at any time. You have to pull her out of this affair fog. You must be ready to lose your marriage to save it....if it's not to late. She minimizes, lies and is secretive. That's what cheaters do, lie, lie and lie even more! One odd idea is you pay for the cell phone plan, as you are primary for the account, then send a message and have her service temporarily suspended. That will get her attention. She could still get a burner phone, but it's time to decide if you want this relationship to work again sorry you are hear, good luck.

The relationship is inappropriate as far as I can see. Married people should not be frequently meeting up with anyone of the opposite sex for one on one meals or drinks.

That is called the slippery slope. At the very least your wife is on it. She may be well past it too, why else would she deny access to your phone?

My wife has one pretty close male friend at work. They never meet outside of work and additionally, he is gay. I have met him and his husband so I have no qualms about the relationship. If she started to meet him outside of work frequently I would start to question it even though he is gay.

So, what have you done to get your wife's attention on this matter? To make her understand her behavior is bad for the marriage ?

What have you done to explore her digital trail? Looked at the phone bill to see texts and calls? Location tracking? Look at her phone when she isn't looking?

Buy the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. Your wife may deny it applies to her but parts of it clearly do.

"I’m wondering, if she knows the pain she is causing and she hardly knows this guy as she claims, why she didn’t she drop this guy right away?"

This doesn't really make sense does it? Somebody she claims to hardly know is more important than her marriage and your feelings.

She wouldn't give you her phone.

She initially lied about the existence of the relationship.

I don't think you have the full truth. At the very least she is having an emotional affair. I'm sorry but I would not be surprised if there is more to the story.

There are many of us here that were told our spouses were just friends with their affair partners or that there was nothing physical only to find out later that there was physical contact. Raising my hand.

Good luck.

I believe my W has been having an emotional affair with, oh let’s call him Bozo, for the past year. She denies that there is a strong emotional connection, saying that she doesn’t even know Bozo all that well, and she also denies any physical interaction, giving the traditional "nothing happened" response even though she admits there was a strong attraction between them at first. But, she did lie to me and deceive me about the existence of the relationship at the beginning; she has said that she will not give me access to her phone; she has refused to stop seeing Bozo, even if that is a deal breaker for the marriage.

Brother I'm sorry you are here but if you don't take decisive action NOW, you're in for a rude awakening, she has simply been dating Bozo for a year right in front of you, also just an "EA" is unlikely when in such a close proximity and frequency, add the admitted mutual attraction to that and an EA could become a PA within a very short time, anyway it's very unlikely "Bozo" has been spending all this time with her for a year just to talk, but even if it was "just" an EA, her huge betrayal is still unacceptable.

I strongly recommend you talk to an attorney, file for D and have her served, D typically takes a long time and you can always stop it if she comes around (that's a big if), also expose her huge betrayal with all family and close friends (and Other Betrayed Spouse/SO if any) without warning for maximum impact, make sure you name Bozo, full exposure typically kills the "beautiful, romantic and exciting" aspects of an A and replaces them with pure shame and embarrassment, if D papers and full exposure don't shock her back to reality then nothing will, and if so just let the D process run its course and get out of infidelity, don't forget to get tested for STDs, did I mention cheaters lie ? yes a lot.

"Wife, you’re absolutely free to continue seeing Bozo, but not as my wife. I had hoped we could work on our marriage, but your insistence on keeping secrets (no phone access) and continuing to see another man you’ve admitted to being attracted to tells me loud and clear this marriage is over. Here are divorce papers. You are free to persue him all you want now."

This will show if there’s anything left in her that wants to save the M or whether she’s already done & gone. Either way the next step is the same.

But, she did lie to me and deceive me about the existence of the relationship at the beginning; she has said that she will not give me access to her phone; she has refused to stop seeing Bozo, even if that is a deal breaker for the marriage.

Is there anyone out there who has experience with living with a Bozo of your own interfering in your marital happiness?

Com1c,

I am sorry that your wife has chosen to do this to you. Have you stopped to consider if you would pursue a relationship with a female 'friend' to the point of telling your wife that you would continue it regardless of whether it destroyed a forty year marriage?

You are the subject of cruel and totally unreasonable behavior, but the key point is that you do not have to live with a parasitic bozo spoiling your marital happiness; your wife can end the pain immediately by ending a lesser relationship that she is fully aware is causing you pain. Or, if she feels that relationship is more important to her than a forty year marriage, you can end the pain by removing yourself from a hurtful dynamic that your wife has created. She cannot keep you trapped in a situation in which she maintains twin relationships; only you can do that.

It is up to you to decide whether or not her behavior is acceptable to you. Unless you signed up to an open marriage, and you are pursuing relationships with females other than your wife, an 'exclusive' marriage cannot survive or support a passenger. With apologies for being brutally frank, if your wife thinks her relationship with bozo is worth more than the marriage to you, you need to consider what marriage to her is worth to you. Nobody wants to break up a marriage or relationship that has lasted four decades, but your wife is expecting you to tolerate her attachment to another man indefinitely, which is not what you signed up for when you married her.

Would you break up a forty year marriage for a 'friendship'? How many people would?

Life does not acknowledge the concept of fairness. Bad things happen to good people. It is not right, but is reality. If your wife is determined to make another man a passenger in your marriage, independent of your feelings, then you also need to start thinking independently, about what is best for you. As unpalatable as this may be, it would be worth you talking to an attorney to get a picture of what divorce would look like, so you know what an alternative to being in a three-person marriage would like. It is a horrible thing to have to do, but you did not create this situation; you had it forced upon you.

As things stand, your wife is being what is called a cake-eater; having her cake and eating it too by having two men in her life. If you take independent action, based upon your refusal to live that way, you put the proverbial ball in your wife's court, and make her choose. If she chooses you, and rejects bozo, so be it. But if she chooses bozo, she reveals an essential truth about herself that speaks volumes about her commitment to the marriage. A painful truth, but a truth that exposes whether or not you can contribute more years of your life to her with an expectation of her reciprocating your level of commitment.

There comes a point where you have to start looking after yourself, regardless of how unfair or undeserved that is. If you are likely to struggle to live in a three-person marriage, you can either 'break' yourself, ignore your pain, and live day to day in a compromised relationship, or withdraw from the dynamic that has been thrust upon you, and let your wife know that it is no longer acceptable to you. If she wants to maintain a 'coffee' relationship that is worth more to her than the marriage, that is her choice, and you are punching out after forty years of faithful service. Or, if the marriage is more important to her, she proves it by severing ties with bozo, because you did not sign up to an open marriage.

A very important element to accept and own in infidelity, as in the rest of life, is that while we cannot control the actions of others, we can control our own. So if life hands us lemons, we can choose to make lemonade, or we can say, "Screw this, I'm getting a burger and a Pepsi". We do not always have to accept what we are handed; there are more options that that.

Your wife continues to lie snd cheat.

Those are the facts.

The question is what do you plan to do? If you ask her not to see him or have contact with him and she disrespects you by doing what you ask her not to do, then you do realize she doesn’t care about your feeling— right?

I think you have a larger problem. It’s not that she sees him, it’s that she lies and disrespects you.

I’m sorry you had to find us but glad you did. You Wife is having an affair it’s by my definition an EA / PA. IMO the minute they meet up and hug, kiss or hold hands the A has become physical. Let’s not kid ourselves Bozo is not going to wait around over a year buying drinks and lunch without some form of sexual activity.

Please study and implement the 180, she thinks she can continue to jerk you around and you will eventually see it her way. People in A’s feel like they are great people on top of the world, Bozo has convinced her, and you are the bad guy for trying to stop it.

Start looking into phone records, bank and credit card statements. Find out who Bozo is, if he is married notify his wife without warning, get a consult with a few attorneys, start taking care of yourself and don’t beg or plead with her, it only reinforces her high opinion of herself.

This is a critical time to take back your sanity, we are here to help navigate through this awful mess. Best Wishes to you.

It is an affair and she was/is probably going to leave you for him. Prepare yourself. That’s why she doesn’t let you see her phone nor does she want to stop seeing him not matter the consequences and she doesn’t care about your pain.
Again, she is going to leave you for him.

See a lawyer!

How did you find out?

So she is actively dating him in front of you, is content to continue regardless of your feeling, words or consequences of her actions.
And there has to be consequences.
She is seeking validation and attention from a third party. She has stated there is nothing going on. Ok can you rock up at the next lunch and dinner date then?
What would happen if the roles were reversed?
Does this emotional AP have a spouse that you could bring along on a double date?

Stop letting her drive this, shine a light on her actions for all to see. Become unpredictable in all ways around her. Start the 180, stop assisting her, let your family in on her dating activities.
Take care of yourself exercise and eat healthy. Stop talking to her. If there are children then they are number one and are innocent parties in this.
I feel with what you said it is possible physical as well.
Gather evidence and talk to a lawyer. There is more to this.
This are the results of her actions.
One day at a time.

My H tried this routine. I got the "I’ll let you know by the end of the summer if I still want to be married".

Huh!!! Stupidly I went along with it b/c I was desperate to save my marriage.

Six months later as he was still unsure and waffling about what he wants, I found out while I was Reconciling he was cheating.

I then told him on dday2 that I was D him.

Best thing I ever did. I did the hard 180 and stopped communicating. After the holidays were over he was being thrown out. He had no opportunity to "discuss" anything.

I stopped being a doormat. It was either my way or get the hell out. He started making immediate changes b/c he realized he pushed me too far.

she has said that she will not give me access to her phone; she has refused to stop seeing Bozo, even if that is a deal breaker for the marriage.

am I just being hyper-controlling?

For now, your wife has placed her dating another man above her marriage….no, you’re not hyper-controlling!

The1stWife wrote:

I stopped being a doormat. It was either my way or get the hell out. He started making immediate changes b/c he realized he pushed me too far.

It’s time to put your foot down.

Edit to add:

Be careful to label this an Emotional Affair. She is refusing to hand over her phone…that would have me assuming something more.

My wife agreed to take a polygraph because I suspected an affair and SHE WAS INNOCENT. Your wife won’t even hand over her phone……hmmmmmmm!

[This message edited by Thingsthatmakeyougohmm at 2:09 PM, Friday, December 23rd]

First and foremost — Thank you all for your support and kind words. I appreciate your advice and am digesting everything.

I did read "Not Just Friends" from cover to cover. I highlighted almost every word. "Omphalos" is a great word. No matter how painful this whole thing is, I’ve learned a new word. A small silver lining perhaps, but a silver lining nonetheless.

For more of the story, we are in therapy, both individual and joint. The counselors have all spoken with one another, and the marriage counselor is of the opinion that, although she may have started down the road to infidelity, nothing physical happened. My reaction is that an EA is cheating and that I am the one who says what constitutes cheating on me. She gets to decide what is cheating on her. But of course, I’m not sure if that’s true. The other view is "I’m always true t you Darling in my fashion," the Cole Porter song that isn’t so funny anymore.

I do think she honestly believes this is no big deal. I wish there was some way to convince her that this is serious short of serving her with D papers. She had a terrible childhood, and she is very fragile. I’m committed to R, but I don’t think that there can be R while the knife is still in the wound. I don’t think the knife can be withdrawn until she acknowledges that the knife and the wound exist, and she has to be the one to pull it out.

To R she has to stop dating her EA partner.

Still dating means no R.

Then the next question is at what stage do you say enough is enough?

The first sexual encounter?

The first weekend away?

If she calls the Shots it can be going on for much more time or even years.

Presently you are her back up or fall back guy, in her mind if this guy doesn’t work out then you will fund her lifestyle until a more wealthy guy comes along. Again how many dudes will it take for you to call her out and say no more.

I feel she has no respect for you hence you can wait until I decide. No that is bullshit!

Again I am for calling her out and stopping her hurting you further.

Talk to a lawyer and start the D process it can be stopped at any time.

How long do you have to wait until you realise that your wife is the one who is the cause of your pain and is killing the marriage?

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 7:47 AM, Monday, December 26th]

Then you should serve her divorce papers. Initiating divorce process will open her eyes. She might still try to minimize her affair and try to convince you that you are overreacting. But be firm on your ground. Don't rug sweep. Don't compromise. Don't let her control the narrative. Only then she will realize how serious this is. Down the line if she starts showing true remorse and does everything that is required from her then you can stop divorce process and work on reconciliation. Right now your old marriage is dead. No point in resurrecting it. So toughen up yourself.