SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Little puppet

My affair was nearly seven years ago, we are reconciled.

I can understand how hurtful a comparison or a pros and cons list would look to a bs.

I was having trouble choosing too in essence because by the time I had an affair I was already in an unhappy state and I blamed that on my husband. We were quite disconnected. The affair quickly became addictive but had I ended up with the AP that would have been horrific. He was a far inferior man to my husband for me. It was more how I was able to pretend I was a younger, sexier clever version myself. He was more of an audience to validate that version, rather than having anything really to offer me.

I was so foolish to entertain those thoughts, and having an affair was the worst thing I ever did in my life. I suspect it always will be. I am not making a case for your wife, only pointing out that affairs are often about personal crisis, bad decisions and then trying to paint lipstick on a pig with justifications.

It’s no excuse and it doesn’t lessen the pain. But some of the the artifacts of an affair are so hurtful to the bs when it’s based on a very mixed up version of their spouse. Trying to reconcile that in your mind and trust in their love is hard to know when to and when not to. I hope you find clarity.

default
hikingout ( member) posted at 7:45 PM on Wednesday, November 15th, 2023
Little puppet

My affair was nearly seven years ago, we are reconciled.

I can understand how hurtful a comparison or a pros and cons list would look to a bs.

I was having trouble choosing too in essence because by the time I had an affair I was already in an unhappy state and I blamed that on my husband. We were quite disconnected. The affair quickly became addictive but had I ended up with the AP that would have been horrific. He was a far inferior man to my husband for me. It was more how I was able to pretend I was a younger, sexier clever version myself. He was more of an audience to validate that version, rather than having anything really to offer me.

I was so foolish to entertain those thoughts, and having an affair was the worst thing I ever did in my life. I suspect it always will be. I am not making a case for your wife, only pointing out that affairs are often about personal crisis, bad decisions and then trying to paint lipstick on a pig with justifications.

It’s no excuse and it doesn’t lessen the pain. But some of the the artifacts of an affair are so hurtful to the bs when it’s based on a very mixed up version of their spouse. Trying to reconcile that in your mind and trust in their love is hard to know when to and when not to. I hope you find clarity.

Thanks again.
This agrees with the minimized version of his first IC (ex-MC for a long time, long history), - "Crisis of the 50s" -, with whom I was able to talk, insisting a lot to my wife, evidently I got a censored Vision. I got very angry with him. He should never have agreed to be his IC, especially when he considered a problem that directly affected. me. I gave consent to my wife because she claimed "depression."
Fog.

Waywards
Did the "good memories" of your time with the AP disappear over time or do you still have them? I don’t mean that you think of your affair fondly. I mean more in terms of "it was fun when we went to the baseball game," or "i enjoyed talking on the phone with the AP". It would be unrealistic to say you didn’t have good times during the affair because if that is true, the affair would not have continued, right?
Did those memories fade as your relationship with your BS got better? I am trying to decipher what makes those memories fade. Simply time or the quality of your relationship with the BS. Thank you

Hi there cedarwoods,

You asked

Did the "good memories" of your time with the AP disappear over time or do you still have them?

I thought AP and I were soulmates, blah blah. I also remember telling BS in those early days that my feelings for AP would never change in a million years, even if I never saw him again. Both those statements turned out to be incorrect.

I have plenty of memories of times I spent with AP that at the time I felt were fun. The difference now is that I relate to those memories very differently. Now they are more intrusive thoughts than happy memories. They are cringey and painful and a reminder of the terrible hurt and harm I was inflicting on BS and our relationship and also on my own integrity. Someone smarter than me once told me that "It's never the thing, it's how you relate to the thing." That is certainly true in the case of my memories of fun times with AP.

Peace and healing to you from an ever EvolvingSoul.

Editing to add: I think the change wasn't just time passing and it wasn't just that things were improving with BS, it was more that I came to the conclusion that the entire way I had been viewing relationships up to that point was pretty screwed up. Getting educated on the true nature of infidelity helped me begin to see that I could not trust the thinking that got me into the affair feelings to get me out of it. I needed to rewire my brain. As that project progressed, my how I related to the affair feelings (and the events and memories from which they arose) changed.

[This message edited by EvolvingSoul at 2:06 AM, Sunday, November 19th]

Did the "good memories" of your time with the AP disappear over time or do you still have them? . . .Did those memories fade as your relationship with your BS got better?

For me they have not disappeared. They are still very vivid and present when I choose to access them. It's not completely pleasurable to do that because the memories bring with them other, sadder, more painful memories of discovery and resolving things with BS. Not to mention the sense of overwhelming guilt and shame for the pain I caused both AP and BS. I'm still M but it's never been the same since then and there is no chance of it ever going back to what it was before. Nothing to do but keep trudging.

For me they have not disappeared. They are still very vivid and present when I choose to access them. It's not completely pleasurable to do that because the memories bring with them other, sadder, more painful memories of discovery and resolving things with BS. Not to mention the sense of overwhelming guilt and shame for the pain I caused both AP and BS.

Thank you for your honesty. You have said out loud what I have always believed but rarely admitted by most WS. I think my EX felt the same as you. Horrified about the outcome, and hurt the that she caused, but the acts themselves while like you not completely pleasurable, still remain exciting as they were so different from what we had, and amplified by the taboo nature of how they took place.

My question is does your BS know how you are feeling and what is her reaction? I would think it could be hard for her to deal with. I think that’s why my EX denied her feelings about the sex.

[This message edited by waitedwaytoolong at 7:59 PM, Sunday, November 19th]

Does your BS know how you are feeling and what is her reaction? I would think it could be hard for her to deal with. I think that’s why my EX denied her feelings about the sex.

We don't talk about it. At dday we endured 8 months of angry (on her part) and contrite (on mine) exchanges during which I answered all her questions and owned up to everything 100%. She talked to a D lawyer and told me during that time she wasn't sure if she could stay, but those comments petered out. There was another confrontation a year later when I told her I had reached out to fAP to make amends to her and W was furious. Another 8 months of angry (on her part) and contrite (on mine) exchanges during which I answered all her questions and owned up to everything 100%. (My reach-out to pAP was well meaning but in retrospect colossally bone-headed.)

I don't know why BW stays because she's never said. I stay because I'm devoted to her and her family and I am focused on making amends. There was never a question of my leaving for AP and since all this I have not strayed.

If she knew how I felt she would drop everything and go to work to convince me I'm wrong. She's an expert debater and I am more of a reticent type. I no longer have the mental or emotional bandwidth to deal with that kind of thing so I just leave it be and so does she. We're no longer what we were before I chose to betray her, nor will we ever be. Such is the noxious legacy of affairing.

waitedwaytoolong

Thank you for your honesty. You have said out loud what I have always believed but rarely admitted by most WS. I think my EX felt the same as you. Horrified about the outcome, and hurt the that she caused, but the acts themselves while like you not completely pleasurable, still remain exciting as they were so different from what we had, and amplified by the taboo nature of how they took place.

I have to respectfully disagree here. While some WS may be able to look back on the sex acts as exciting and pleasurable, many others (like myself) do not.

Aside from kissing/fondling, the only other sex act that occurred was my AP performing oral on me. To be perfectly blunt, my AP gave world class head, quite possibly the best I ever had. Conversely, I have never gotten oral from my wife as its something she will not do.

I can say with 100% certainty that I do not look back on the sex with anything other than revulsion. IMO, you cannot divorce the feelings between the acts and the illicit nature of the affair. At least I cannot. That's like saying, you still enjoyed driving that really expensive sports car even after you killed someone while doing it.

That's like saying, you still enjoyed driving that really expensive sports car even after you killed someone while doing it.

I have an old touring classic car. Nothing is better than putting the top down and opening it up on the backroads on a crisp fall day. It’s exhilarating. I love this car. I’m sure if I killed someone in it, my feelings for it would change and I probably would sell it. I don’t think however I would look back on my rides with disgust.

I don’t have a reason to doubt that you have revulsion for what you did, but even your description sounds like you remember the physical act as being amazing.

To be perfectly blunt, my AP gave world class head, quite possibly the best I ever had

Do I think you regret it or was it worth it? 100% it wasn’t worth it. You are paying the price with internal guilt. My EX paid the price too. I know she hates the AP with a passion, but I remain unconvinced that the thoughts of sexual acts still don’t elicit some sort of primal emotions that are hard to push away.

For me Denwick articulated what I feel goes on but is never stated due to self preservation.

even your description sounds like you remember the physical act as being amazing.

Not at all. I'm merely providing the context and comparison to what I was describing. I'm contrasting the difference between my wife and AP in the oral sex department, nothing more.

but I remain unconvinced that the thoughts of sexual acts still don’t elicit some sort of primal emotions that are hard to push away

That is your right but I ask you to consider this. You're on the BS side of the equation. Just as a WS will never completely understand what betrayal does to a BS, a BS will never quite get how a remorseful WS about the A in its entirety. I can never view any part of my A dispassionately enough to cherry pick specific aspects and find them exciting. I'm certain I'm not alone in my feelings. IDK if your ex feels the same way or not but its certainly possible.

Ff4152
Thank you for your honest response. I find your answers very helpful.
You said in one of your past replies something like "i don’t know why any BS would reconcile with a WS"
Would you mind elaborating on that? Why do think this? My WH said something similar. He said he was baffled that i would R with him. And I think Sisoon said his WS said something similar as well.. I would like to understand the WS’s thoughts. Thank you.

cedarwoods

You said in one of your past replies something like "i don’t know why any BS would reconcile with a WS"
Would you mind elaborating on that?

Prior to my arrival on SI, I never really had a firm grasp of what infidelity does to a person. To be clear, I have experienced betrayal by friends, family and even ex-gf's in my past, but even those never made the kind of impression on my psyche than the stories here have. Perhaps its because I always blamed myself as the cause of the betrayal. I must have done something wrong; otherwise why would someone do this to me?

I then spun that narrative in my head and focused on my wife and her "shortcomings". The thing is, much of what I was angry about were her reactions to my own shitty behavior. Without going into to much detail, I had a prolonged period of mental issues and drug abuse. MY wife had to carry me and deal with my bullshit for many years while trying to also keep it together for many years. Over time, she became tired and resentful which any reasonable person would. I picked up on that and ran with it. Well if my wife feels this way, she must not really love me right?

Of course that's a load of crap. I have read hundreds of stories here and there is one constant truth: There is no valid reason to cheat. If you are that unhappy in your relationship, work with your partner and try to address the issues. If that doesn't work, leave.

Of course all of that sounds so nice and neat on paper but the reality is oftentimes much different. But the act of cheating isn't. It's a vile and evil thing to do to someone you claim to love. To do to someone who loves you. Trusts you with their life and health. My AP could have been a bunny boiler. My AP could have given me an STD that I could have passed to my wife. Suffice to say, a WS actions oftentimes rain down immense levels of pain and suffering on an undeserving BS. What kind of person does that?

That's why I'm so flummoxed when a BS decides to R with their WS. A BS is making a pretty big leap of faith to try again with someone who has already proven themselves to be untrustworthy. That's not meant as an indictment against the BS BTW. I just think that, short of murder, infidelity is the worst thing you can do to your partner.

I posted this on General but am adding it here. Thank you

As a BS in second year of R, there have been times when I wasn’t sure I wanted to continue R. Not because of what WH was doing or not doing but purely from my own pain, grief, anger, fear, and resentment. I am not sure if I can accept what he did. I am not sure if I can stop thinking about the affair. I am not sure if he will be faithful. I am not sure if I am just wasting my time. Sometimes the pain is too much to continue.
What about the WS? Do they have doubts as they go through R? If so, what would their reasons be?

Hi Cedar,

I saw your post in general and have been meaning to respond. It's a real tough one and a situation unhelpfully I have found myself in.

So firstly I KNOW I want to be with my BS despite leaving her for my AP (3 month affair with around 2 months of having left our home). We have had some horrific arguments over the last 18 months and over that time I have handled things in a less than ideal way due to my lying and minimising of the situation.

This has seen me throw at her the "I'm done" "this isnt going to work" etc. I never meant those things and see how shitty it is for her who has been abandoned once before and faces it again.

However more recently it's been particularly difficult. My BS doesnt know if I am telling the truth at all, there is no trust and the littlest of things can result in a blazing row as we both trigger one another with our responses.

It therefore has had me question whether R can be done and as a result I openly communicated with her this feeling. This is due to my BS feeling as though she will never trust me again and that this is just flogging a dead horse, saying stuff which signifies permanency and causes upset I find particularly a struggle and has me react at times.

So I guess with your question, for me what makes me doubt if its possible is the fact that I struggle with the name calling and some of the awful things that get said, being blanked and given cold shoulder it's the things that make me get in my own head....all totally wrong though and uncalled for.

On a side note I dont doubt for a second me ever repeating this mistake again. Tht could never happen and will never allow it too, the hurt on our children will be too much.

Does that kind of answer your question, I'm at work and I hate using my phone.....

As a BS in second year of R, there have been times when I wasn’t sure I wanted to continue R. Not because of what WH was doing or not doing but purely from my own pain, grief, anger, fear, and resentment. I am not sure if I can accept what he did. I am not sure if I can stop thinking about the affair. I am not sure if he will be faithful. I am not sure if I am just wasting my time. Sometimes the pain is too much to continue.
What about the WS? Do they have doubts as they go through R? If so, what would their reasons be?

I wanted to R and was willing to do anything. But I certainly had doubts, mainly because I didn't think BW would stay the course. I made contingency plans including scouting out a new place to live where I had come from at the start of our R (300 miles away, close to my kids). I was set to go and be done with it if it came to that.

Ultimately BW did stay the course, but only because of appearances. I stayed, though the idea of leaving had its attractions and I could have made it work. Another road not taken.

Cedar,

What about the WS? Do they have doubts as they go through R? If so, what would their reasons be?

In short, yes. I had and have doubts about R and any future BS and I have together.

Now a longer version.

I have and have had lots of doubts. The vast majority of these are based in selfish wayward behaviour.

1) I doubt we will ever be happy again and doubt BS will ever be happy. This is in part making a decision on behalf of my BS, taking away agency. So I can have doubts that BS will ever be happy, but I cannot make choices based on this. As for doubts we will ever be happy. Yes, this is a risk. We might get through "the work" and BS cannot live with what I've done to hurt her and abuse her. However we may get through R and have a happy life together until our dying day. This cannot be predicted and for me at least has to be used as a motivator rather than a reason to bail. Now, I have been horrifically bad at letting the negative self talk win. Even typing this I am not anywhere near a finished article and am a long way from R. I can see happiness in our future, this future needs a lot of work from me to make it a reality

2) I doubt my intentions. Something I spoke to my IC about recently was my intentions behind actions. Not necessarily the infidelity (although this is and needs to be a big part) but the good things I do. Lets say I Drive the MIL to a hospital appointment. Is this to score points with BS to prove I am a better person or is this because I want to help the MIL? I know past me would have manipulated situations to make bulcy look like a better person. To influence people into liking me. I sometimes have to think hard on my intentions because even I doubt me sometimes.

3) I doubt I will ever do enough. I have doubted I will never be able to "fix" this. I am realising that of course I cannot "fix" anything. I can make my future choices better and work on understanding my past choices, but I cannot fix things. That suggests a "band aid" which is not the right thing to do.

4) I've doubted my BS still wants to be with me. Multiple affairs, TT, abusive behaviour.......The list is sadly quite extensive. Even after all this my BS is still with me. Still fighting for us. I have had the audacity to question her. Hugely wayward thinking which I'm working on changing.

5) Similar to above, I've doubted my BSs intentions on questioning me or getting upset. I've accused her of doing things just to make me angry, to make me upset. TO HURT ME. This is untrue and another wayward thought process.

6) I've doubted the fantastic advice given on here. Usually because it went against my wayward mindset. "Who are you to tell me what I need to do? I don't need to do x, y and z to save my marriage. I can "get away" with just about doing x.

7) I doubt I am strong enough to get through the really tough times.

There are more, I'll try and add them as I think of them. The summary of the above is that most of these doubts are not real. They are in my head and they have been barriers to real R. Barriers I need to tear down and keep them down. These doubt fester and allow the "why bother" wayward to bubble to the surface. I hate that part of me. Too much negative self talk. I'm not sure if other WS have had/have similar doubts? They are in my head and I'm trying to fight them.

TInyTim, Denwick, Bulcy

Thank you for your replies. It helps tremendously to hear the thoughts of the wayward. I see that BS’s behaviors and attitudes can cause waywards to feel not as safe and secure in the reconciliation process. There is so much emphasis put on BS’s need to feel safe but your responses show that waywards need this just as much. It helps me to check my behavior and attitude toward my WH.

questions for Bulcy: please note that these questions are not to challenge you. I just want to get a little deeper.

You say

I doubt we will ever be happy again and doubt BS will ever be happy.

Is this because the two of you are inherently incompatible? Or there’s been too much damage done? Or you doubt BS can genuinely forgive you and love you. Or you don’t know if you can ever love your wife again? Or you would rather be with someone else?

You say you

doubt i will ever do enough

. Do you mean this in the context of the marriage in that you will always be measured against your “crime” of cheating? Or do you mean to say you don’t think you are good enough in life in general.

Also, you say you

doubt i am strong enough to get through the tough times.

What would those tough times be? Like if you are tempted to cheat again? Or when you don’t feel like you love your wife anymore?

Question for TinyTim;

You say

On a side note I dont doubt for a second me ever repeating this mistake again

.

How do you know for sure? How do you know if you won’t be attracted to another woman and bam it happens again even though your head says it’s wrong?

I don’t mean to challenge you. I just would like know how one gets to that point of knowing he/she won’t choose infidelity again.

Thank you all again.

[This message edited by cedarwoods at 8:06 PM, Thursday, November 30th]

Hi Cedarwoods,

You are right, feeling safe and secure is a need for anyone I feel and I would challenge any ws who says that it's not to them as the constant threat of being thrown out the marital home and losing it all (yes I know the irony...) is really hard to live with. At the same time though I appreciate my BS and the pain she goes through with still having me hear and having to put up with what I have done.

In reference to your question though, so prior to my A I always had a bit of a cavalier attitude to my relationship and didnt overly consider my BS and her feelings. I had some shitty behaviours but always blamed someone else, blamed my bs for stuff and didnt treat my relationship with any serious thought. The A changed that, my AP was a turd to put it bluntly, we had nothing in common and I realised very quickly once out the fog how much communication with my BS I missed. One thing that she said to me and something that has always stuck with me since we have been trying to R is essentially... if the person you are with fulfils you in every way then why try and better that. She is so right, my BS is beautiful, she is funny (not just a little but has wicked gallows humour), caring, forgiving, loving and just a genuinely lovely person. For me she is perfect...something which I never appreciated before. Since all this we have had many conversations, I have learnt how she hasnt felt special for a long time how alone she felt and quite honestly it's awful and I just never saw it.

Now for me, I have always been proud of who I am and what has been achieved as a people pleaser also I have cared what people have thought of me. We made the decision to tell our children and whilst initially refused to I could see what this meant to her and could see the fact this meant alot. Anyway, we told the kids and I now feel not only accountable to my BS but also my children, my girls idolise me especially my youngest. To even think about doing this and having to explain to them what has happened and what I have chosen to do again is just not going to happen. It would destroy them, it would likely kill my BS and it would likely destroy me and I dont ever want to betray my morals and values ever again.

If that makes sense ...

Cedar,

I doubt we will ever be happy again and doubt BS will ever be happy.

Is this because the two of you are inherently incompatible? Or there’s been too much damage done? Or you doubt BS can genuinely forgive you and love you. Or you don’t know if you can ever love your wife again? Or you would rather be with someone else?

Or there’s been too much damage done? This one. It is negative self talk and comes up when there are major triggers or I've been a ass and done something to hurt BS. Too much damage done is a common theme on here. For me to suggest too much damage is done is selfish, it's not my decision to make. Of course, it is damn near impossible to stop thought flashing into your mind, but with discipline I am trying to shut these thought down before I or BS is adversely affected an inappropriate response from me. To be honest, I feel that we are very compatible as a couple. My challenge is to help her see that I feel this and I feel love towards her. A difficult task for a wayward and made more so when I'm a dick and upset her.

doubt I will ever do enough

. Do you mean this in the context of the marriage in that you will always be measured against your "crime" of cheating? Or do you mean to say you don’t think you are good enough in life in general.

This tends to come into my thinking when I have been doing stuff. The example I give is BS needs X, y and z and I have been working hard on a, b and c. I see me working and feel and see improvements in my behaviour and in my mindset. What BS sees is me not doing the things she needs. So, of course, I'm wrong. Yes, me doing a b and c is good and important, X y and z are imperative and NEED to be done as a priority over everything else. My wayward head used to be horrific at this and would get defensive and angry at being told I was "doing nothing" (my interpretation not what was actually being said). So, in some ways I feel I will always by measured against my cheating behaviours. Reality is I probably will. The other reality is that I need to do the same and keep remembering what I did to ensure I don't act like that again. I have, in the past, gone through the "woe is me" I'm not good enough for anything. I think, in the main, I've passed that stage. When shame kicks in it is related to infidelity and the hurt and pain I've inflicted.

doubt i am strong enough to get through the tough times.

What would those tough times be? Like if you are tempted to cheat again? Or when you don’t feel like you love your wife anymore?

The tough times being talking about infidelity, being challenged on infidelity, self evaluation, discovering feelings I have previously hidden away from, feeling empathy, seeing the hurt in BS. All these things add up to a man who previously had no empathy, feeling or emotional intelligence hurting a lot. I've struggled with this.

Bulcy, as follow up to your comments I have a sub-question.

You say " doubt BS will ever be happy…". Do you think your wife ever takes this as an implicit threat. Like, you (Betrayed Spouse) are acting like you are never going to be happy again, because you are upset or sad or angry, and therefore I may just give up and stop trying, or even worse I may leave. I want you BS to think about that (the risk that you are incurring by seeming upset or sad or angry) and improve your behavior so I don’t have to deal with it. Otherwise just remember BS, I may give up or leave.

My husband used to say stuff like this a lot: "it’s always there", "you’re never going to get over this", "its in between us all the time", etc. Etc. I always took it as a sort of a threat. A caution from him to stop acting upset, sad or angry. He wasn’t saying, "you’re sad/angry/upset so what can I do to improve the situation?". Instead he was choosing to say, if you keep acting like this and don’t get over it watch out.

Then it seemed like a lightbulb went on and he started saying, no matter what you do (sad/angry/upset) I’m always going to be here. I will just settle for the sad/angry/upset version of this marriage. So let’s just settle in and you do you, but no matter what it is all going to be okay because I will never ever ever leave. This went on for maybe six months and we made great gains. It created a floor.

More recently he has said some more "you are never going to get over this…." I can’t help seeing this as backsliding.

So the question is… are you making a sort of sub-conscious threat when you complain about her never getting over it. Or a conscious threat? Are you trying to get her to "snap out of it" so you don’t have to deal with the fallout of your actions?

And how come it seems like you have soooo much insight, but seem to backslide yourself so much? What does that process look like?

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 4:02 PM, Saturday, December 2nd]