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Newest Member: InkHulk

Just Found Out :
H still in contact with affair partner

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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 7:03 PM on Sunday, May 29th, 2022

I want to clarify that we (or most) never take suicidal threats lightly. To most of us they are all real and no joke.

Do some cheaters use this as a manipulative ploy? Yes. But it’s still taken seriously.

He is lucky to have you and his family trying to help him get the mental health services he needs.

Beyond that? I don’t know what to suggest. He’s still lying and cheating so that doesn’t do anything to help you know what to do.

But putting yourself first is your best path right now. You need to have at least one person looking out for you during this terrible time.

Once your H gets the help he needs then you can make other decisions such as your future together etc.

Keeping you in our prayers that this has a positive outcome.

Just one thought - can your H voluntarily be admitted or is that in jeopardy of his job too?

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 12120   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8737748
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 12:12 AM on Monday, May 30th, 2022

If you think he is truly suicidal please get rid of any guns you have in your house. Any medication such as Ambien or tranquilizers need to be done away with. You have to make sure it’s not easy for him to kill himself.
I know someone who’s a therapist and she said Covid has turned that whole country upside down. She said before Covid like most therapists when someone seems to get a handle on themselves they usually opt out of therapy. She always has a full schedule but she got calls from all of her previous clients who wanted to come back to help them get through the pandemic. It’s been three years since she’s worked 40 hours. It’s more like 80 to 100 hours a week. Call and see if you can set something up with a psychologist. I think the preferred person is probably a psychiatrist but they usually work together. Your husband sounds like he might be bipolar because they often have these real outrageous behaviors or he may be suffering from awful anxiety and depression. It’s going to take an expert to get to the bottom of it. In the meantime you need to make sure he cannot get his hands on a weapon. There are people on here whose spouses left for someone else and when that relationship broke up they kill themselves. You don’t want that to happen

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 3343   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8737766
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morningglory ( member #80236) posted at 6:23 AM on Monday, May 30th, 2022

If you know that he's really suicidal then it's your responsibility to report him as a danger to himself so that he can be protected and get the help he needs. It's help that family and friends cannot adequately provide.

posts: 358   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8737779
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 Misery (original poster new member #80348) posted at 5:44 AM on Thursday, June 2nd, 2022

Is it normal at this point to be kinda numb? I was obsessive about all the details. I still think there’s some shit I don’t know but I’m coming to terms with the fact I likely will never know all of what happened. It’s no longer all consuming.
I’d say I’m still trying to wrap my brain around what has happened but I’m not sure that’s accurate either. I’m not sad, the sobbing has stopped. I’m not even mad anymore. I’m frozen maybe? DDay was May 2nd. Does it really only take a month for the sharpness to subside. I’m sure it’ll rear it’s ugly head again soon.
I can’t think of the future. Together or separate I have no idea and I’m not sure it matters to me anymore. At at least right now.
I’m going back to the house in a couple of days. He’ll be there in a spare bedroom. No idea how we’re gonna make it work. Mostly avoid each other I expect. I don’t like this limbo but neither one of us knows how to move forward.
Thinking back he’s kinda right. Our marriage changed a while ago. Maybe I wasn’t giving him what he needed and vice versa. That’s the honest truth. Does not excuse what he’s done. Nothing ever will but a hard look at "us" and yeah maybe the marriage wasn’t all fairytales like I thought. So where do we go from here. It’ll be like starting over.
Can I do that with a man that has tried with someone else 3 times now. Twice before he met me? Obviously there’s some long standing feels for her that are never gonna go away. He’s stopped all contact, blocked number etc but to what end. If the feelings are still there does it matter that they stopped talking??
I get it. We’re human and that means we can’t always control our feelings. He can and will control his actions but again. Is that enough. I simply don’t know.
I don’t want it to be done. As crazy as it sounds I still I love him. I will always forever love the man.

posts: 9   ·   registered: May. 24th, 2022   ·   location: US
id 8738191
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swmnbc ( member #49344) posted at 1:54 PM on Thursday, June 2nd, 2022

The numbness is totally normal. Of course, you won't be numb forever, but right now you need a break from the grief.

If you two do decide to try reconciling, maybe you can commit for small increments . . . "We'll try for the next month and then reevaluate." That way neither of you has to feel like you don't have the choice to walk away.

Hang in there. You don't have to feel or know or do anything right now. Just cocoon and take care of yourself the best you can. Let the dust settle a little before you try to figure out next steps. I'm glad you'll be back in your home for the time being - you shouldn't have to lose that along with being cheated on.

posts: 1768   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2015
id 8738208
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redrock ( member #21538) posted at 2:19 PM on Thursday, June 2nd, 2022

Of course it makes sense that you are numb. You’ve been through trauma.

You can’t fully express your pain and anger due to fear that your partner will harm himself. Fair or not his illness muzzles you and his family and puts you both in the position of protecting him from himself. But it also buffers him from consequences of his choices... needed or not that’s a burden to carry.

And you are going home. Is it an in house separation or an attempt to R?

Your previous post says that you are done. Are you?

Marriage doesn’t change attraction to others, it changes what you do about it. It’s called boundaries and adults have them.

It is not the fault of the marriage that he made hundreds of decisions to open himself up to a relationship. He is. It’s okay to lie, hide, cheat and tattoo because you were separated when young? Umm puhleeez.....

You and he seem to agree that NC is not gonna change his self involved childish horny fantasy feelings. I wonder if the OW is ready to put him first and protecting him from his illness on priority when life gets real..... Prolly not. She likes the fun guy that reminds her of carefree youth. Not the guy that comes with problems, expenses and issues.

Listen, if you want to fall into the unmet needs or marriage problems dance that’s gonna put additional burden on you for being responsible for his choices, It’s not unheard of, many BS get entangled in and there are plenty of counselors who will agree. IMO the ultimate issues are with him and until he addresses them, you’ll be right where you are.

Love and empathy for your life partner doesn’t evaporate overnight or in 30 days.

Nothing about this is easy. Throw in his mental health problems. It gets exponentially harder. You can’t make him feel accountable to your marriage, shared life, history, bills and/or future. So follow up with your appointments with lawyers. Know your options. Work on what you can control.

You still have love and hope. You can’t turn that off. But let your head guide you now. Take care of yourself with the same care you’ve given him.

I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

posts: 3482   ·   registered: Nov. 6th, 2008   ·   location: Michigan
id 8738211
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tikismom ( member #60546) posted at 7:42 PM on Thursday, June 2nd, 2022

Hi Misery, I was in a very similar situation as you with an old high school flame. They were soul mates, wh promised her marriage & a kid, etc. He was out the door. We are still together, but it was a lot of back & forth. This was almost 5 years ago. Please m me me (if you are able, or I can pm you) if you want to chat privately. I am so sorry you are going through this.

Me: 39
Him: 43 (NPD)
DDay #1: Sept 2017; Lots of TT & DDays since. EA & PA with an EX. Last known contact with OW: end of December 2017.
Married 10 years, together 15 at time of dday. 2 very young children.
Status: Working daily toward R.

posts: 468   ·   registered: Sep. 8th, 2017
id 8738258
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Evertrying ( member #60644) posted at 10:00 PM on Thursday, June 2nd, 2022

Also, the matching tattoos? What in the hell is that bullshit?!

I just threw up in my mouth,,,, barf

Give me a break. Is he 16 yrs old again?????

BS - 55 on dday
WH - 48 on dday
Dday: 9/1/17
Status: Reconciled

posts: 1226   ·   registered: Sep. 16th, 2017
id 8738277
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clrsrz ( new member #79127) posted at 1:24 AM on Friday, June 3rd, 2022

I just wanted to say that I know exactly what you're feeling. My post is also on the front page of JFO too. My wife is still in contact with her AP and we're coming up on the one year mark since DDay. How you're describing your husband is exactly how I would describe my wife. She's been severely depressed since this all came to light, and I thought that if I gave her time to sort through her feelings, she would eventually come around. But here we are a year later. I didn't want to be the one to give up so quickly. I didn't want to be the one who abandoned my partner when they were going through something. My biggest mistake has been giving her time. Because that has been more painful to me than anything else. I want to say please listen to the advice that everyone here is giving you because it is gold. But I know from personal experience that you will do what you need to do when you are ready. And that's ok too.

[This message edited by clrsrz at 7:55 PM, Tuesday, June 28th]

Me: BW 32, Her: WW 31 (same sex marriage) DD: June 2021 (found out 2 weeks after it started, EA w/21yo girl who lives in another country - met online gaming)

posts: 19   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2021   ·   location: Southern California
id 8738315
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pureheartkit ( member #62345) posted at 11:38 PM on Monday, June 6th, 2022

I was kind to my ws too. Gave him time to wind it down. Said no more meet up but can talk about work stuff if needed since they worked in same small industry. Supposed to talk to me about the conversations and be open with the phone records and texts.

What happened

Talking and texting, then I objected to frequency, then it went underground. Later they met up several times. He erased the call logs and texts. Still talking and texting to this day.

I was willing to work on it. He wasn't. I thought people are capable of growth and change. I could reason with him and he'd see how hurt I was and respond .

He watched me cry and he listened and he kept hiding that he was still getting his ego scratched. Some people won't quit. You can't make them, you can't reason with them. You can't drag them to happiness. I think it is they want that good feeling and brain euphoria. The faithful spouse provides safety and stability, not excitement.

We don't want to see our safety and stability go either. However, staying while a partner desperately clings to the brain happiness source is exhausting and discouraging. Every day you are wondering what they might be up to. Thinking of the lies and whatever they thought they had to do. I didn't want my life to change. I was going to fight to keep it. Finally I let go of the dream and realized the greatest gift is freedom and free will. For me, for him, for all of us. He may very well look back and see what a big mess he created while he was in happyland fantasy brain.

I still care about my ws. Yes he hurt me very badly. Yes he's selfish and won't ever be grateful for the good things and people in his life. I think he can't progress beyond who he is now. Too bad. I wanted more for him. I feel sorry things had to happen like that but it won't stop me from having a good life. I was scared before, now I'm not. You have to trust yourself. One chapter ends, another begins. When your mind calms from this, you will see clearly what you learned. How you became stronger. We don't choose this, but we can come through it and find meaningful lives. The whirlwind of emotions and stress are hard, keep trusting that a good life is there for you.

Thank you everyone for your wisdom and healing.

posts: 2347   ·   registered: Jan. 19th, 2018
id 8738950
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 Misery (original poster new member #80348) posted at 4:26 AM on Tuesday, June 7th, 2022

We’ll I’m back at the house. We’re mostly just trying to avoid each other. Half the time we talk it ends up fighting, yelling and crying. We never ever fought before as a couple.

Being home got me access to his ipad. I’d been doing so good not checking logs and stuff. What I found was that she drove up to see him. I do believe he didn’t expect it. But of course they then met up. "For a drink that’s it". Hard to believe of course. No proof will be found either way. To be completely fair at that time, 3 days earlier I told him we were done and I was very matter of fact about it. So i can’t fault him for going back to her but god damn if it doesn’t hurt.

Maybe I should have reached out to him earlier, that I was questioning that decision but I’m not sure it would have mattered.

It kills me to know that he ran to her or her to him after we were "done". I’ve told him before I need him to show that he wants me. I need him to fight for "us". The only response I get is he doesn’t have anything in him to fight for himself never mind us. And I do believe that but maybe I’m being selfish for saying too bad. Repair is gonna take WORK. The least he could do is try something, anything.

It’s so hard to know. It’s not fair that he has an alternative to this massive empty future that I can’t get outta my head.

Today we talked again. He’s so good at calming me down and giving me hope. I still love him. It’s my weakness? Is that even the right word, idk.

One day I’m ready to be done. Mourning our past relationship and the next hour I think maybe just maybe we could make it.

I need off of this rollercoaster ride. I’m crying every night and can’t take this up and down. We don’t have an answer. We won’t for a long time. But in the meantime we’re under the same roof, super weird and uncomfortable. Afraid to ask questions cuz I don’t wanna know the answers.

I’ve asked if he still loves me and he asked if I love the past him or what he is now. Neither of us can answer those questions yet.

My roadblock is even if he still loves me, how do I accept he "loves" someone else? I will not be a second option. I won’t deal with the what ifs forever. So does that mean we’re done. Should we just say it so there’s a direction to move in. Idk. Its panic attack inducting when I think of a life without him in it. I know it’s not a switch that he can just turn off. But I don’t think I can live with it in the meantime.

I HATE that this gets put on me. HE is the reason we’re in this mess. Why is it up to me to be the bad guy and say we’re done.

Sigh I still think a month out my brain can’t comprehend everything I know.

[This message edited by Misery at 4:31 AM, Tuesday, June 7th]

posts: 9   ·   registered: May. 24th, 2022   ·   location: US
id 8738982
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pureheartkit ( member #62345) posted at 5:48 AM on Tuesday, June 7th, 2022

You don't have to be the bad guy. It's not bad to say you need space. It's not bad to say you need real devotion not crumbs. You be honest. Keep to what you know is right. If he doesn't want to change, he won't. That's not in your power and I know the anxiety it brings. Why can't they just try ?

Emotions will come and go. One thing that helped me was to not accept any more lies. He kept it up and I left. That was the one thing I would not tolerate. You have nothing without honesty. Without it you will never feel at peace.

Thank you everyone for your wisdom and healing.

posts: 2347   ·   registered: Jan. 19th, 2018
id 8738986
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 11:39 AM on Tuesday, June 7th, 2022

I’m sorry for you Misery. You are living in limbo and to me, living in limbo is pure hell! BTDT!

If I can make a point to you that I hope helps you. And I wish I had recognized this after dday1 b/c there may not have been a dday2 b/c we would have been D.

Your H is a coward. He refuses to be honest.

He doesn’t answer a question but dances around it. The whole "do you love the person I am or was" is maddening. It’s keeping you in limbo. And it’s torture for you.

But here’s the part I missed. And maybe you can see some value in my experience.

You don’t need an verbal answer from your H. His actions speak volumes. He is Telegraphing to you that the OW is his choice (sorry to say). If you tell him "we are done" and he goes running to her, then he has shown you via his choices and actions exactly where his mindset lies - and that his selfish needs are the priority.

His words are vague and intentionally misleading.

His actions are not.

I hope this helps you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 11:40 AM, Tuesday, June 7th]

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 12120   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8738995
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Belle25 ( new member #63676) posted at 3:28 PM on Tuesday, June 7th, 2022

Limbo is definitely worse than ending it for real.

I suspect that even if he does actually cut off contact with her, they will both always romanticize the idea that they are pining for each other and meant to be together, and can't because of his meanie wife. I think that them reconnecting is inevitable, whether it's a week from now or five years from now. They are both deep in the fog.

You don't have to live like this, with another woman always in your "objects are closer than they appear" mirror. He can't even answer if he still loves you? You deserve better.

posts: 40   ·   registered: May. 3rd, 2018
id 8739014
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 5:50 PM on Tuesday, June 7th, 2022

I’ve told him before I need him to show that he wants me. I need him to fight for "us". The only response I get is he doesn’t have anything in him to fight for himself never mind us. And I do believe that but maybe I’m being selfish for saying too bad. Repair is gonna take WORK. The least he could do is try something, anything.

People protect what they value. There's no thought put into it. It's organic. When something is important to us, we just what we need to do in order to keep it. That applies not only to people and things, but also to our own core values. If his own fidelity was important to him, he would have valued it enough to protect it.

That means building strong boundaries around the things we truly value. ie. "I believe in fidelity, so I don't put myself into risky situations regarding the opposite sex." My core values are priorities to me. For the cheater, there's an out-clause, a "but...". ie. He believes in fidelity, but... not if he's depressed and wants external validation." So, you see that faithfulness isn't a priority for him. It's just an option, one which falls far behind his real priority which is getting sexual/romantic validation outside your marriage.

You're a deeply compassionate person. That's easy to see even through the keyboard. But your compassion won't change the fact that what your WH currently cares most about is his own comfort and that he DOES have a choice about that. He's telling you that he's basically helpless under the weight of his depression, but he's made hundreds, maybe thousands, of active choices which have brought you to where you are right now. If he were truly incapable of prioritizing, he'd be blithering in a hospital right now. Prioritizing is simply making choices. He does prioritize and he chooses to put his desire for external validation first.

Bear in mind that this kind of external validation is something that YOU can no longer provide. Your ego kibbles are old and stale due to familiarity. Getting admiration and flattery from you is like getting an "atta boy" from your mom, right? It's just expected at this point. It's the ability to attract those things which feeds the ego.

Being home got me access to his ipad. I’d been doing so good not checking logs and stuff. What I found was that she drove up to see him. I do believe he didn’t expect it. But of course they then met up. "For a drink that’s it". Hard to believe of course. No proof will be found either way. To be completely fair at that time, 3 days earlier I told him we were done and I was very matter of fact about it. So i can’t fault him for going back to her but god damn if it doesn’t hurt.

When people meet "for a drink", I'm assuming it's an alcoholic one. Did he drink alcohol while claiming that he's suicidally depressed??? That's a choice. Just like meeting the OW was a choice. Just like giving up on you after three measly days is a choice. We've got WS's crawling through broken glass, metaphorically speaking, here in the Wayward section who would give their eyeteeth for even a possibility of R. Three days after you tell him you think you're done, he's drinking with the OW and you think that's YOUR fault??? Did he just meet you last week? Does he know nothing about you at all?? Even if you were completely compelling at the time, his active choices surrounding that event tell you where his priorities lie.

Anyway, here's the point.. YOU are important too. And right now, the only person in this world who can protect you from the emotional abuse you're dealing with is YOU. That's just the bottom line.

((big hugs))

BW: 2004(online EAs),
2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 38 years;
in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 5639   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8739046
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morningglory ( member #80236) posted at 7:40 PM on Tuesday, June 7th, 2022

I’ve asked if he still loves me and he asked if I love the past him or what he is now. Neither of us can answer those questions yet.

Both answers are clear. You do love him now. That's why you're clinging to him and second guessing your actions in relation to his actions.

He does not love you. Men who are in love with a woman know it, and can easily verbalize it. It isn't complicated. They only pretend it's complicated when they want to string along a woman who they aren't in love with.

It's hard to face the fact that someone you love does not love you, but that's the reality here. Many of us have been there in the past. We have full sympathy with you. It is not your fault he doesn't love you. He is also not worthy of your love.

I need off of this rollercoaster ride. I’m crying every night and can’t take this up and down.

Once you end it for good and go no-contact with him (or bare minimal contact if you share custody), you will get off the rollercoaster. You have to let him go, and also stop seeing him. No contact means not being in his physical presence and not talking to him on the phone. These are both possible even if you share custody, because drop-offs/pick-ups can occur at a neutral area where the child walks between your cars. No contact also means no texting or emailing, aside the bare minimum necessary for sharing custody.

The rollercoaster is a result of being exposed to him and hoping things will work with him, only to have him dash your hopes. The corrective measure is to accept the fact that he doesn't love you, therefore it isn't going to work, and you need to stop being around him. It's very hard advice to take. I'm giving this advice not to be harsh, but because it's true and it is what will allow you to finally heal and move on.

[This message edited by morningglory at 7:50 PM, Tuesday, June 7th]

posts: 358   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8739066
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 8:58 PM on Tuesday, June 7th, 2022

He is falling off the reality cliff and grabbing any branch on the way down.

One hand on your branch, another on AP's...

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1951   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8739081
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standinghere ( member #34689) posted at 8:04 AM on Wednesday, June 8th, 2022

High school flames maybe similar to high school drinking and high school drugs, affecting your brain pathways for the rest of your life, you give it up, you move on, but then it comes back, and lights up your brain like it did when you were in high school.

Until reality hits, and you realize you're not in high school anymore, and you just fucked over everybody in your life, and you're just an asshole.

There is something to this, the neurochemistry, they think when we use something like tobacco or alcohol when we are in our formative years, it sensitizes us to that particular thing for the rest of your life, I suppose that could be true of people as well.

But you don't have to pick up the drug, you still have a choice.

BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 50’s)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 50’s)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

posts: 1459   ·   registered: Jan. 31st, 2012   ·   location: USA
id 8739151
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standinghere ( member #34689) posted at 8:11 AM on Wednesday, June 8th, 2022

I forgot to add, just like high school, most of these affairs don't last, they burn themselves out. That doesn't mean that you have to wait around for it to happen though. You don't have to put up with this shit.

As for the tattoo?

When he pulls his head out of his ass, if he ever does, maybe to show his love for you he can burn it off with a propane torch without benefit of anesthesia so he can get an just the barest inkling of how much he has hurt you.

BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 50’s)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 50’s)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

posts: 1459   ·   registered: Jan. 31st, 2012   ·   location: USA
id 8739152
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ZenMumWalking ( member #25341) posted at 1:37 PM on Friday, June 10th, 2022

((((Misery)))) <--- hugs to you

I'm so very deeply sorry for the devastating pain that your WH has inflicted on you. And I know first hand how limbo (and ihs - in-house separation) is the WORST.

I want to first address the mental health issues. If he ends up attempting / committing suicide, that is NOT on you, it's on him. You need to call 911. If it's a manipulation tactic on his part he won't do it again. If it's real, that will be at least a step toward getting him the help he needs.

I was depressed and suicidal for years after dday. I was committed to a psych hospital twice - once for 6 weeks and once for a month. I have fortunately climbed out of that hole, but I am still on ADs (anti-depressant meds), athough I have been weaning off for a few years.

If your WH is going to climb out of the hole, HE has to do it. No one can do it for him. He should see if it is possible to get appropriate meds from his GP.

As for the tattoo - WTF??? That would be it for me. Even if he has it covered or removed, he did it. That painful reminder is not something you can ignore or will ever forget.

You don't have to decide anything now with respect to D or R. But you should consult with several of the best shark lawyers in your area, many will give a free consult. If you consult with a lawyer that usually means that they cannot represent your WH since that would be a conflict of interest. None of this means that you plan to D, but knowledge is power. Make sure that you understand your rights and obligations, and the likely outcome of a D in your area. Don't tell him that you are doing this, and keep your cards close to the vest.

As others have pointed out, and you have recognized, you can't R on your own. It's the sound of one hand clapping. WH needs to be 110% in. NC with AP is just the beginning. He can't get AP 'out of his heart' while still in contact. Is it hard?? Yes. But it is the VERY LEAST that he should be willing to do if he wants any chance of R / saving the M.

As Bigger has said, your goal should not be D or R, it should be to GET OUT OF INFIDELITY. At the very least, that means not sharing your spouse with another person. And I made the mistake of talking too much and listening to my WH words when I should have been paying more attention to his ACTIONS. Well I finally learned that his words and whining and tears were MEANINGLESS without solid actions to back them up.

It took me a long time to figure all this out. I was in fear for a long time and could not imagine a future without WH. We are permanently separated now (due to tax situation here, otherwise would be D) and I have finally been able to escape the clutches of limbo and infidelity. Betrayal is devastating and your emotions will be all over the place for some time. That's ok. At the same time, please do what you can to take care of yourself and your future.

((((Misery))))

Me (BS), Him (WH): late-50's
3 DS: 26, 25, 22
M: 30+ (19 1/2 at Dday)
Dday: Dec 2008
Wanted R, not gonna happen
Used to be DeadMumWalking, doing better now

posts: 8443   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2009   ·   location: EU
id 8739537
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