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Newest Member: Hopeful318

Just Found Out :
After 9 years of R, I just got the 'oh I think I'm polyamorous afterall!' talk. At marriage counselling. Out of nowhere.

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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 2:44 PM on Wednesday, April 27th, 2022

... 'can have multiple romantic relationships, irrespective of the characteristics of potential partners' rather than 'must have multiple relationships'.

Practically speaking, there is no difference.

IMO, that's a black and white view of a situation consisting of many colors and many shades.

People choose what they will do. I know a few bi people; most are single, but I know at least one who is M and monogamous. A poly woman I know has just announced her engagement. She can have sex with many people; maybe with trees, too smile . I think she's choosing monogamy.

People have feelings and natural propensities. Our feelings and propensities don't have us.

*****

This exchange may look like conflict between 2 over-generalizations. But one of the over-generalizations puts of of one type of people into a single box, as if one characteristic (sexual desire?) trumps every other characteristic.

The other possible over-generalization recognizes variations between people even if they are very similar in one major characteristic. Since we know there's wide variations among people, maybe the 2nd view isn't an over-generalization.

*****

I don't mean to prolong an argument. My goal is to remind us all that there's more in heaven and on earth than is dreamed of by our individual philosophies ... that what works for oneself may not work for many others and probably won't work for all others.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27886   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8732255
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numb&dumb ( member #28542) posted at 6:37 PM on Wednesday, April 27th, 2022

She stated that she had zero intention of meeting any of the people she was talking to, and that she felt lonely because we apparently weren't connecting emotionally

You aren't connecting because she still has not shared everything feom her first A. She still has painful secrets she never disclosed to you. She either refuses or manipulates into not sharing enough of the A story to protect herself. Yet at the same time expects you be that open with her ?

She is still lying to you. About the past and the present. She has to stop this and beginliving life authentically. A good start would be a timeline about any As she had in the past. The one you know about plus any others that you don't. Without this any R will not have a renewed commitment to honesty and by extension restore your intimacy. That us why things are touch and go to thus day.

Even people who are not experiencing infidelity can see how lopsided your relationship has been since Dday. You both are not playing on the same team. She can't ask you to be vulnerable without doing that herself KWIM? In your false R you assumed all the risk. She did not risk anything by keeping her A details to herself. It is part of your shared history and it is something you should talk about without limits. Today you don't have that which why things are not going so well.

If you want to R you need to give her a list of requirements that you need to stay in this M. If she drags her feet or makes excuses then maybe her new job marks the end of your M and a new life for you without her brokeness constantly making you sad, angry, erc.

Dday 8/31/11. EA/PA. Lied to for 3 years.

Bring it, life. I am ready for you.

posts: 5068   ·   registered: May. 17th, 2010
id 8732320
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 Hurthalo (original poster member #41782) posted at 10:51 PM on Thursday, April 28th, 2022

G'day team. I just wanted to thank you for the posts since my last and that I promise to answer them. I just needed a day or two to mull everything over, and I also wanted to wait until I had gone into IC before I commented.

About to go in for my IC session, will let you know!

Thanks everyone again, I've read and pondered every word.

posts: 186   ·   registered: Dec. 26th, 2013   ·   location: Australia
id 8732561
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jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 2:14 PM on Sunday, May 1st, 2022

How did IC go?

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married almost 30yrs.

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day(s): Enough
Accepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 4127   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8733011
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 3:49 PM on Sunday, May 1st, 2022

I am a great believer in the power of words and the ability to change.
However… if your wife has had years to contemplate her happiness and connects her emotional issues (real or imagined) to not connecting to you then I doubt a single conversation or a Come to Jesus moment changes that.
I can believe something like the above can be a catalyst for change, but I would think the DECISSION to change is only the start – the process has yet to take place.

In ways it’s like when an alcoholic decided to stop drinking. That decision is easy. It’s remaining sober that stumps them. Your wife decided that you are enough. I would want to see some work to confirm that before committing to this as a salvageable marriage. Since you guys are already in MC then that would be the issue I would focus on with the MC.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 11144   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8733023
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PSTI ( member #53103) posted at 3:54 PM on Monday, May 2nd, 2022

Hugs. Hurthalo, just wanted to say that I'm thinking of you.

I really, really loathe when cheaters try and use the poly excuse. It makes life more difficult for those of us who actually are polyamorous.

Me: BW, my xH left me & DS after a 14 year marriage for the AP in 2014.

Happily remarried and in an open/polyamorous relationship. DH (married 5 years) & DBF (dating 4 years). Cohabitating happily all together!! <3

posts: 868   ·   registered: May. 6th, 2016
id 8733142
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 Hurthalo (original poster member #41782) posted at 1:50 PM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

How did IC go?

I'm so sorry, I got caught up in the insanity of the week, that I forgot to check in. Sorry, it has been longer than I wanted to be away, but I needed a few days. IC went really well, it was actually very, very enlightening. First off, I apologised to the therapist for having to witness 'the bomb' but he shrugged it off and said that he doesn't necessarily conform to being shocked by deviations outside of normal 'social constructs', so it wasn't a hassle.

The main points I took away from him were:
1. Did I really, in my heart, believe that she wants another relationship? He seemed to think not. My comments were that noting her past behaviour, I'd be 30/70 on her being serious. Aka, not likley serious, but who really knows?
2. He explained that part of my reticence to perhaps being emotionally open with my wife was that having trust broken 9 years ago has probably led to me being more guarded subconsciously. Noting I came from a household whereby my father cheated on my mother and divorced accordingly, the effect is probably even more magnified. In this case, even if my wife was using this behaviour to 'act out and as a cry for help', it would likely have an even worse effect.
3. I said I could not be in a relationship whereby in any given collection of time, a variation of her happiness might result in her cheating...or just as worse, I'd develop a paranoia in the relationship whereby I would simply cease to open up in any way as a defence mechanism. His response was, 'you must realise that this is her problem. Nothing you can do will change her behaviour unless she changes it and sets boundaries again, and you are not responisble for her making poor choices.'

Just as you said here, Bigger:

I can believe something like the above can be a catalyst for change, but I would think the DECISION to change is only the start – the process has yet to take place.

Hugs. Hurthalo, just wanted to say that I'm thinking of you.

I really, really loathe when cheaters try and use the poly excuse. It makes life more difficult for those of us who actually are polyamorous.

Thanks PSTI, it's greatly appreciated! And yes, I still can't believe I am in this position whereby my wife has decided that my interest in PERHAPS or MAYBE entertaining some harmless, consensual fun would be in anyway construed in me giving my blessing to her persuing emotional relationships with other people. I'm still seething that that chestnut was dropped in MC (well, that's the place to do it), but with her knowing that I was going to have to suck on a shit sandwich (as we delightfully say in Australia) with visitors/family in the house for the next four days.

I've since asked her why she decided to start talking to people on the app without my knowledge/involvement and she said that 'it was just boredom/I was interested in learning about people's journeys.' My problem with all this is that:
1. She was reading the books that were open to this lifestyle/arrangement,
2. She was excited by at the least, talking to people in the poly lifestyle, and has commented that they had 'fascinating' stories to tell. I should also note that as far as I can work out, she has met none of these people, and has no contact with them outside of the app (which is now deleted).
3. She KNEW I didn't approve of our friend's excuse after his A that he was truly poly - and I know this because we had a half-drunken argument over it when it was clear she was taking his side after I suggested it was quite the convenient excuse to attempt to plaster virtue over a deplorable act.

So for her to now state that, 'oh this was all a misunderstanding - I don't want that at all,' doesn't fill me with much conviction. Who knows, I actually suspect in the last few days that I am at the anger phase of dealing with this situation. I'm simply not doing this AGAIN for a third time if she decides I haven't met some arbitrary level of romance/engagement/emotional availability at any given poiunt in time. All marriages go through that, the answer isn't dropping a nuclear bomb. She's away for a week for work, so it has given me time to think. At least she has been checking in nightly etc?

More to ponder regardless.

posts: 186   ·   registered: Dec. 26th, 2013   ·   location: Australia
id 8733276
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numb&dumb ( member #28542) posted at 4:29 PM on Wednesday, May 4th, 2022

One thing you need to explore is why she is able to point about your lack of opening up emotionally while at the same time closing off parts of her to you. Intimacy is a two way street.

Just my .02. She is pointing to perceived flaws you have versus looking at herself. She is/has been projecting things onto you.

Your IC said it. This is her problem and only she can fix it.

Dday 8/31/11. EA/PA. Lied to for 3 years.

Bring it, life. I am ready for you.

posts: 5068   ·   registered: May. 17th, 2010
id 8733557
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emergent8 ( member #58189) posted at 8:45 PM on Friday, May 6th, 2022

How are you doing Hurthalo.

Have you had some time to think?

Me: BS, Him: WS. Mid-late 30s.
Together 15 years, married 6 (11 m at D-Day).
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
5 years (and two toddlers) into R. Happy.

posts: 1031   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8734011
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 9:14 PM on Friday, May 6th, 2022

How do you know she’s not connecting with guys while she’s away at work?

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3476   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8734015
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asc1226 ( member #75363) posted at 1:38 AM on Thursday, May 12th, 2022

She's away for a week for work, so it has given me time to think.

HH, has there been any change in her wayward mindset? Did the week to yourself bring any clarity?

I make edits, words is hard

posts: 477   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8734788
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SnowToArmPits ( member #50943) posted at 11:03 AM on Thursday, May 12th, 2022

Hi OP.

Seems like your wife likes to shake up her life with DRAMA, her affair, and now chatting with those men behind your back.

She has a selfish streak to her, doesn't she. Empathy (for her long time husband) is not her strong suit.

The problem with her stirring up DRAMA, it lands right on you. From what I've read in this thread your emotional and physical health have taken a hit.

My 2 cents is she's shining you on - feeding you bullshit with some truth hoping you'll swallow it. She was up to no good.

Sounds like she's pretty good at rationalizing her nasty side and doesn't have a problem hurting you to get her jollies with other men.

It leaves things in a mess. Here hubby, here's a new mess for you to deal with. Try to not worry too much when I'm hundreds of miles away.

Fuck me.

I don't have any magical advice for you. Divorce is obviously a really serious step, maybe too soon, so have a go at reconciling. But take a trip to a lawyer and get your ducks in a row.

I'm just shaking my head here, you now to get to wonder what your cheating wife is up to on her 2 yr posting away from you.
Quite a wife, man. Sorry this happened to you.

posts: 517   ·   registered: Dec. 25th, 2015   ·   location: Canada
id 8734822
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JungAdmirer ( member #47685) posted at 11:54 PM on Tuesday, May 17th, 2022

Active members of the military are protected by the Service Members Civil Relief Act. Generally all civil procedure are stayed during active deployment. If you decide to speak with an attorney, please choose one who is experienced in this regard.

posts: 63   ·   registered: Apr. 27th, 2015
id 8735777
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 Hurthalo (original poster member #41782) posted at 1:39 PM on Thursday, May 26th, 2022

I apologise for the lack of update; work has been atrocious and my anti-anxiety meds have left me in a real down the last 2 weeks. I thought this stuff was meant to make you feel better?! 🤣 To be honest, it has just made me apathetic.

So I've had 2 sessions of IC over the last few weeks which went well. I certainly have things to work on, but nothing that warrants this mess. Have I been emotionally unavailable? Yes, sometimes; but welcome to long term marriage!? When I'm annoyed with my wife, I don't revert to making myself open to the idea of 'dating' someone else. 99% of the population don't either.

We had a combined MC session today and it didn't go well if I am being honest. She has mentioned a few times now that the 'poly' angle was a cry for help and/or to set fire to a situation she says she felt desperate in. When I speak of desperation, I don't get it. I'm an active father to our 3 kids, I work hard, I cook, I do half the cleaning, all the house maintenance, manage the finances, keep myself in athletic shape, and provide more than enough of an income. I have my faults and foibles, but I'm not a dipshit.

So we get in the session and the MC asks what I am feeling. I state that I don't feel safe. And by that I mean I have no idea of whether my wife is serious about being poly or whether it's just a cry for help for me. I state that I can't be in a marriage that lives under a non-manogymous guillotine waiting to fall any time my wife might feel aggreived. MC asks wife if she feels that even if things got better whether that would 'cancel out' the desire to have a relationship with someone else. Wife says, 'I don't know yet.' WTF. I say, 'Well this isn't something I would ever, ever be comfrtable with. I could have 'fun' with someone else - but never brook an emotional ongoing relationship outside the marriage.' Wife says, 'well we might be at an impasse.' She then went on to describe how monogamy was a traditional consruct that due to advances in feminism - she didn't want to feel trapped in. I did an abrupt wtf here and told her that it was arguable that monogamy was the norm and wasn't a patriarchal construct aimed at keeping women as chattel. I don't fucking get it. It's like this is less about our marriage and more of a gender crusade?!

I proceed to switch off and do the 100 mile stare.

It's funny though, as soon as we got out, we chatted in the carpark. I got a, 'well I have no intention of seeing someone else...but as my psychologist told me, we don't have to make a decision. We can just see how it goes.'

I don't 'want to see how it goes.' I'm 42 and I want my wife to not feel tempted to stray.

She then says, 'we still haven't talked about moving interstate' to which I replied that we had, and that my boss was already happy for me to work in the office there. Suddenly I get the, 'well look, I'm going anyway, and we need to work out whether it's worth moving the entire family logistically.' So there we have it; it appears (at least at a cursory glance) like me and the kids moving with her are going to cramp her style. I said as much and she said, 'no not at all!'

I asked her to truthfully tell me what advice her friends would give her if it was me who told her that I was unhappy, open to seeing other people, and also sketchy about her moving interstate with me for two years. Exactly.

But here's the thing, she's pleading for me to make it work and says she wants to spend her life with me. How?!

Anyway - she's all touchy feely and wants to know why I'm feeling down tonight. Is she fucking serious?!

posts: 186   ·   registered: Dec. 26th, 2013   ·   location: Australia
id 8737192
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TruthIsPower ( member #75776) posted at 2:54 PM on Thursday, May 26th, 2022

Hurthalo,

She then went on to describe how monogamy was a traditional consruct that due to advances in feminism - she didn't want to feel trapped in. I did an abrupt wtf here and told her that it was arguable that monogamy was the norm and wasn't a patriarchal construct aimed at keeping women as chattel. I don't fucking get it. It's like this is less about our marriage and more of a gender crusade?!

Few days ago I came across Jordan Peterson's podcast on YT titled "Sex and Dating Apps / Rob Henderson". I suggest that you listen to this podcast. It covers the matter of so-called "luxury beliefs". They cover "poly" as well.

"Stop giving people the reasons to love you. Not all will see the beauty of your soul. Those who know, those who know who you are, will love you with something fierce and never let you go. Those are the ones worth holding out for."

posts: 230   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2020   ·   location: US
id 8737206
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Sanibelredfish ( member #56748) posted at 4:27 PM on Thursday, May 26th, 2022

Jeezus, she’s a friggin train wreck! Jerking you around and constantly probing for a way to get you to agree to a sanctioned/unsanctioned fuckfest for the next 2 years. No wonder you’re anxious/depressed. I’m sorry, but she’s not a safe partner and likely never will be. She won’t pull the trigger on D because she wants to eat cake and figures she’ll be able to manipulate you into it. I think you need to turn the page on her and work on legal separation. I think that’s the only way to convince her that you won’t be manipulated into giving her a hall pass. Even then, think long and hard about whether you want to spend what is left of your life in a relationship like this. You undoubtedly deserve better. Anyone does.

posts: 789   ·   registered: Jan. 8th, 2017   ·   location: Midwest
id 8737224
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RangerS ( member #79516) posted at 4:51 PM on Thursday, May 26th, 2022

I am so sorry you have to deal with this crapfest. She is not giving you anything to work with. She claims her devotion to you and then contradicts herself. What does she actually want? Who can tell. It seems like she really wants your permission to have her cake and eat it to. She is acting like she wants to end the marriage, but she wants you to do it so she isn't the bad guy.

You have already told her, but try again in counselling. Tell her that you both deserve to feel secure and happy in the relationship. Tell her again that the social construct of marriage works for you and if it doesn't work for her she needs to be honest. Tell her that you want to be with her, but if she wants out, you will not make the divorce difficult. Tell her that if she wants to stay it must be under terms you both agree to.

If you stay together, I would suggest that you move the family and stay together. If you don't, I would fully expect her to pursue the life style she has expressed interest in.

posts: 66   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2021
id 8737229
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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 6:29 PM on Thursday, May 26th, 2022

She clearly wants this, and is thinking she can manipulate you into allowing her to do this.
You need to draw a line in the sand, and stick to it.
I would also encourage you to see an attorney ASAP, and have a very good understanding what S or D looks like if you choose to force her hand, and she chooses to walk away, you need to understand what this looks like if you are in separate locations for your kids.

She is putting herself, and her needs above all else, including the well being of the kids, and because of that it makes you the default sane parent. So it's time to step up, and figure it out.
She clearly is in the mindset of she deserves whatever, and blaming being monogamous on social constructs is proof that she has no interest in putting you, the family even close to first.

Hope you get clarity you need to start getting out of infidelity.

Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 22 & 25
Married for 30 years now, was 16 at the time.
D-Day Sept 26 2008
R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 19611   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8737245
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 8:12 PM on Thursday, May 26th, 2022

I agree with Tushnurse.. your WW appears to still be intent on her original agenda, and that pretty much leaves you at square one. In terms of progress, that's five weeks of emotional upheaval and nothing to show for it.

I think you'd do well to see an attorney and start getting your ducks in a row. You're right, living "under a non-monogamous guillotine waiting to fall" is no way to live.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 6176   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8737272
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Buster123 ( member #65551) posted at 3:21 AM on Friday, May 27th, 2022

Wife says, 'well we might be at an impasse.' She then went on to describe how monogamy was a traditional consruct that due to advances in feminism - she didn't want to feel trapped in.

I'm sorry but she's telling you this is part of her core belief now and honestly it's all you need to know to pull the plug and file for D, stop trying to convince her to be monogamous, she simply doesn't want to and doesn't believe in it, unless you want to remain in a forced open M you should to contact a D attorney and end this farce.

posts: 2694   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8737320
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