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Wayward Side :
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Dazedandconfused1978 ( member #79527) posted at 3:21 AM on Sunday, December 5th, 2021

Survus- quick wuestion and I know everything isn’t black and white. But if they were/are so unhappy about their husband, and I mean unhappy enough to commit adultery, then why not leave them? I feel things are as bad as they profess then why stay? Because in most cases they’re not and the WS needs a victim to validate their actions. It’s blameshifting and not being accountable.

posts: 64   ·   registered: Oct. 26th, 2021
id 8702673
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 BraveSirRobin (original poster guide #69242) posted at 4:24 AM on Sunday, December 5th, 2021

DazedandConfused, I'm confident that survrus doesn't endorse his WW's views.

WW/BW 50s (Me)
BH/WH 50s (TimeSpiral)

posts: 2379   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8702678
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Bulcy ( member #74034) posted at 12:26 PM on Sunday, December 5th, 2021

Curiously my WW is protective of WWs and says stuff like maybe her husband didn't love her or spend enough time with her.

It is interesting that she still does this. Having an affair is an act of extreme selfishness, we comment on here all the time that no matter how bad the relationship is or how unhappy you are, it is not a valid reason for an affair. Understanding this and accepting this is fundamental in any Waywards personal recovery. Now of course, in a lot of cases, the relationship is not as bad as we allow ourselves to believe and we disappear into our own world of justifications. However defending the actions of waywards is a barrier to self recovery. I would be interested to know why she still thinks this way and if she really means it as a defence of the behaviour or is commenting on the justification a wayward might have been griping onto at the time of the affair?!? (Hope that makes sense)

I will offer support to any wayward who comes on here if I see then making the same mistakes I have made and do make. I offer that because I've been there and if I can help steer someone down the right path sooner than I have then I will try and do so. Being on the right path is of course not the only thing, you need to go in the right way...But that's another discussion for another thread. I'm still in the early stages of self discovery and trying to "fix my shit" and the support and advise I get on here is invaluable, even if it has been ignored in the past, because I knew best and I was different to other Waywards!! I hope I am starting to get it. I hope I'm doing enough. I know that without posters like BSR, Daddy Dom and many others I would not be anywhere near where I am now.

It's hard accepting that while I needed to be beaten by a large bit of 4x2, I needed my had held at the same time. Any new WS on here, please listen to the advise give, accept what you have done, try not to shame spiral and do everything you need to do.

BUT ESPECIALLY LISTEN TO THE GUYS ON HERE, NO MATTER HOW HARD IT IS.

WH (40's) Me. Emotional affair (2017), Physical affair (2003) and online affairs, Two physical affairs (2000). D-Day's 2003, August '17, multiple discoveries through 2018,19 and 20, and Jan 21

posts: 116   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8702691
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Dazedandconfused1978 ( member #79527) posted at 6:55 PM on Sunday, December 5th, 2021

BSR- my apologies. I didn’t mean to insinuate that he did. I meant it as a general question for all really. In no way do I think he should endorse her views. I was wondering, more in my own case, if most of the WW state their reasoning is they were so unhappy with current spouse, then why not just leave? What’s keeping them in the relationship? Financial factors? Their image to friends and family? Why put the spouse through that pain? I know they all say " I didn’t mean for it to go that far" or "I didn’t think we would get caught". I just don’t get it. Why string along the loving spouse?

posts: 64   ·   registered: Oct. 26th, 2021
id 8702723
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 BraveSirRobin (original poster guide #69242) posted at 8:01 PM on Sunday, December 5th, 2021

I was wondering, more in my own case, if most of the WW state their reasoning is they were so unhappy with current spouse, then why not just leave? What’s keeping them in the relationship? Financial factors? Their image to friends and family? Why put the spouse through that pain? I know they all say " I didn’t mean for it to go that far" or "I didn’t think we would get caught". I just don’t get it. Why string along the loving spouse?

I think it's a great question for a new thread. It would work in General or Reconciliation if you want both BS and WS responses or in "BS Questions for WS" if you're specifically soliciting WS input.

WW/BW 50s (Me)
BH/WH 50s (TimeSpiral)

posts: 2379   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8702728
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forgettableDad ( member #72192) posted at 1:22 AM on Thursday, December 9th, 2021

I'm curious to hear from other WS: do you struggle with an identity crisis when you read posts about recidivist waywards?

Nope. I'm not attached to any particular "identity" bestowed by other people. I read posts here like I discuss these things in the real world; as a person. We're all complicated with a full inner world of emotions, reasons, good and bad. My cheating was mine, not yours and not any "wayward" here. I don't feel protective of anyone other than my children (and my wife - as hard to believe it as it might sound on a forum like SI, you know, people are complicated). As I said before as well, being cheated on doesn't confer any moral superpowers nor cheating an automatic one-way ticket to deviltown. I don't think it's healthy (mentally-wise) to believe that you're somehow a simple sum of the intersection of "identities" - lol. You're not the "Wayward" and your husband isn't the "Betrayed".

I feel this surge of disbelief and rage that anyone can betray such trust and grace.

I read this as you feeling a "righteous" anger. Is that how you see it on reflection?

Have you been in this boat? Any tips for how to keep paddling?

Yes. I was in that mindframe for a while. It's an easy way of looking at the world. But anger is the devil's cocaine - and righteous anger is more so. Stop identifying with a label.

[This message edited by forgettableDad at 1:28 AM, Thursday, December 9th]

posts: 280   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2019
id 8703133
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 BraveSirRobin (original poster guide #69242) posted at 3:42 AM on Thursday, December 9th, 2021

I read this as you feeling a "righteous" anger. Is that how you see it on reflection?

Possibly? They say there's no fanatic like a convert. But honestly, it feels more like a triggered anger, a mix of remorse for what I did and helplessness watching someone else be victimized. It's definitely not a feeling of power or superiority.

WW/BW 50s (Me)
BH/WH 50s (TimeSpiral)

posts: 2379   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8703147
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gmc94 ( Guide #62810) posted at 12:34 AM on Friday, December 10th, 2021

helplessness watching someone else be victimized.

this rings a bell for me... and not "just" the victimization of the BS, bc I often feel the WS is hurting (or victimizing) THEMSELF. And IMO, no matter BS or WS, reading it unfold in real time can be horrifying and painful and - triggering AF.

It's quite sad to think of the easy examples off the top of my head of a new WS coming here and swearing up & down it wasn't PA, it was only once, never in the home, or the plethora of other "full" disclosures that just about anyone here (WS or BS) intuitively suspect, to then flash forward a few weeks or months to read that the posts weren't anything close to the whole story. All the while knowing the further harm being done to the BS, the diminishing odds of the M surviving, AND that the failure/inability to find honesty and candor further damages the WS - even if being done by the WS' own hand (just like a heroin addict who swears they are clean... the next hit and the internal lies/rationalizations that go with it - are harmful to the addict).

I'm not a WS, so I don't know about walking that line on the WS side. I do have a sense of that on the BS side, when it's pretty clear the WS is not remorseful, likely providing a GIANT load of bullsh*t to the BS, and/or still engaging in the A. Yet, some BS simply don't want to - or cannot - hear that. Cannot hear the ways in which they need to protect themselves (emotionally, physically, financially). We WANT to believe the beautiful lies we are told - cuz the alternative is pretty effing awful. Yet, listening to those lies causes US further harm (and FWIW, I don't think that's terribly different than what I imagine a WS feels - they also want to believe their lies, cuz the reality is soo starkly different from the persona they've created for themselves).

So, on my "side of the street", I do try (tho imperfectly and certainly with failure) to temper my responses. It CAN be very triggering... that feeling of helplessness is a whole effing thing- BS or WS - right? It took me a long time to shift my thinking/reaction (or more likely, recognize & manage my own triggers). Like anything, some days (threads/posts) are better managed than others. I guess I could say I try and focus on/use the 1x1 vs the 2x4

So, I guess all that to say it seems to me that throwing this out to SI seems like a miracle to me! Like what healing looks like. And I suppose that the thread itself is insight into how to keep paddling? I, like so many others, have such immeasurable gratitude and respect for you (and so many others on SI) who have the strength, courage, and time to come here and share such personal experiences. It's been a literal lifesaver for me. AND, we also know you need to care for you... we have to put on our own oxygen mask first. So, if something is too triggery, I try to stay away from it (not always with success smile ). Sometimes it sucks when something gets under my skin. I do my best to step away and work on my own trigger management - they are all opportunities - right?

[This message edited by gmc94 at 12:36 AM, Friday, December 10th]

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3618   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8703285
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forgettableDad ( member #72192) posted at 11:31 PM on Friday, December 10th, 2021

Possibly? They say there's no fanatic like a convert. But honestly, it feels more like a triggered anger, a mix of remorse for what I did and helplessness watching someone else be victimized. It's definitely not a feeling of power or superiority.

You joke about being a convert but I think this is an apt description. I was there too. Like I said, it's an easy way of looking at life. And while joining with the chanting crowds doesn't necessarily mean a feeling of power or superiority, it's addictive to be part of something "bigger". And I do think the forums here suffer from this particular malady - I find the discourse at times quite (potentially) harmful.

I can understand feeling anger over a perceived injustice. But you say you feel protective. Why? If you dig deep inside for a second, are you overcompensating for your own sense of discomfort at cheating?

posts: 280   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2019
id 8703561
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 BraveSirRobin (original poster guide #69242) posted at 1:00 AM on Saturday, December 11th, 2021

But you say you feel protective. Why? If you dig deep inside for a second, are you overcompensating for your own sense of discomfort at cheating?

I'm definitely upset with myself for cheating, and I'm sure that factors into how strongly I react to seeing other people treated the way I treated my BH. As he says, no one wants to believe they're the villain in their own story. But I don't see protectiveness itself as a bad impulse. I just don't want it to prevent me from offering the same kind of firm but compassionate support to WS that was offered to me.

WW/BW 50s (Me)
BH/WH 50s (TimeSpiral)

posts: 2379   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8703577
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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 4:08 AM on Saturday, December 11th, 2021

Dazed and Confused wrote,

BSR- my apologies. I didn’t mean to insinuate that he did. I meant it as a general question for all really. In no way do I think he should endorse her views. I was wondering, more in my own case, if most of the WW state their reasoning is they were so unhappy with current spouse, then why not just leave? What’s keeping them in the relationship? Financial factors? Their image to friends and family? Why put the spouse through that pain? I know they all say " I didn’t mean for it to go that far" or "I didn’t think we would get caught". I just don’t get it. Why string along the loving spouse?

Correct I don't endorse her ideas, I find them funny, particularly since her voice goes soft but firm as she asserts her position exonerating some wayward.

It also throws her into a state of guilt and confusion where she will say things like "but his hair fell out" about a friend of hers who cheated on her husband when he got cancer and was on the verge of death.

Why string along the loving spouse
In my WWs family it's how life was lived and a kind of normal, generally it was the men who cheated on their wives and left them at home writhing with pain. So my WW saw all this and compromised on many things to get a man who would not cheat on her, and a non-cheating husband is an asset since she did not want to suffer her Mothers lifelong torment. I've also heard many other women say something similar to "well he doesn't cheat on me" usually again with some note of loss through compromise of some other desirable traits.

I might even say that some spouses are worth keeping even when they are not worth loving. I want to erase that but I think it is sometimes true.

As an aside it's OK to misunderstand what I wrote.

posts: 1086   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8703602
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WalkinOnEggshelz ( Administrator #29447) posted at 4:09 AM on Saturday, December 11th, 2021

If you dig deep inside for a second, are you overcompensating for your own sense of discomfort at cheating?

It’s one thing to overcompensate and another to have an abundance of empathy. I feel like the latter is more true.

I also feel that firm and compassionate don’t have to be mutually exclusive.

Me: WS late 40’s
Him: BH (HoldingTogether)
D Day: 7/24/2010
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

posts: 14742   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2010   ·   location: Texas
id 8703603
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sundance ( member #72129) posted at 4:25 PM on Saturday, December 18th, 2021

BY BSR: Part of that is making room for failure, because not everyone is going to overcome toxic thought patterns and behaviors on their first go.

Right. And some WSs don't even want to overcome anything about themselves when they first arrive. And that's OKAY, because arriving HERE, finding/joining this community on their own can be a HUGE first step in making necessary change.

LET THEM BE IMPERFECT.

I've spent years of searching, questioning, reading, journaling, etc. YEARS living, moaning, bitching, complaining, blaming, rising and falling. Up and down, down and up.

For some of us, the only way we learn is by proving our ownselves WRONG. It can be exhausting (to ourselves and to others wanting us to "hurry-up" with the process). But OH HOW JOYFUL when we finally turn the corner!

Thank you, BSR, for ALL your hard work!

Rusty: You scared?
Linus: You suicidal?
Rusty: Only in the morning.

posts: 85   ·   registered: Nov. 21st, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8704934
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