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Wayward Side :
Backslide... warning too much information

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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 11:54 PM on Thursday, November 11th, 2021

Sorry about the T/J and thanks for the quote HCDI, I will be careful in my recommendations.

I wholeheartedly disagree that how much or what kind of sex happened isn't important. If you can get the BS to rugsweep that shit, you might as well rugsweep the whole thing. Maybe it's close to "if the sex alone isn't a dealbreaker, how on earth could where the AP came matter?" It all matters.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1479   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8698018
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HowCouldSheDoIt ( member #78431) posted at 12:11 AM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

Yes, a bit of a T/J but good information, I think.

I'm not sure what you mean by "I will be careful in my recommendations" because I think the Gottman book is very good in many ways. The part I mention is just one small piece I disagree with, but their reasoning behind it makes sense.

The thing Gottman assumes though, is that you have a willing spouse who wants to atone and who wants to make amends. They don't explicitly say that in the book. I found out that their method only works if the spouse is a candidate for R, which is very obvious to me now, but it wasn't at the time.

Me: BH Early 50's
Her: WW Early 50's
D-Day Nov 2020
Married 21 years before D-Day
3 children
Working toward reconciling. The most difficult thing I've had to do in my life.

posts: 276   ·   registered: Mar. 3rd, 2021
id 8698020
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Organic2003 ( member #69811) posted at 4:44 AM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

I engaged in his affair schedule, same dates same locations to "take the power out of these things." Both my husband and my ap were aware of everything. I felt free to engage in acts that my husband was against

You literally made your husband a cuckold! Och You did sex acts with AP that you refuse your husband!! Och Och

You want him to be sterile now, why?, maybe to squish his manhood even more. (squirming in my seat)

No way is this reconciliation, you are still in contact with AP and according to your posts sound like you might want to do this again.

I have been witness to several BS that got sterilized just before finding affairs or divorce. I was considering starting a thread on this very issue.

Find your heart and a better method of BC.

You know this is a move to prevent your H from finding a women that wants children after you cheat again or D him.

I am now positive he has some type of monitoring on my phone unbeknownst to me even though he swears he doesn't. I may be wrong but I don't believe in coincidence.

He screwed up and gave away his source, now you will know to improve your OPSEC

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 4:51 AM, Friday, November 12th]

There is opportunity in EVERYTHING

posts: 148   ·   registered: Feb. 19th, 2019
id 8698030
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WalkinOnEggshelz ( Administrator #29447) posted at 11:54 AM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

I think while I acknowledge and admit to my wayward status to others, IC and friends, it still isn't helping me see him as anything but wayward,

The question is then, do you want to work on your wayward behaviors? Do you want to find empathy for the pain your actions have caused?

Think very carefully about that and don’t just say yes because you know it’s the right thing to do.

At the very least, I recommend you work through your resentments. I don’t get the impression that you and your husband have communicated well which leads to a lot of assumptions.

If you really want to get to a place of remorse and empathy, you will need to learn to separate your own actions from his. Right now, it seems everything you say or do is a direct result from his A. To own your affair goes much deeper than admitting you did it. It takes close examination of your own flaws and dysfunction.

Figure out what you are willing to work on in regards to your own behavior, with or without your husband. The only person responsible for you is you.

Me: WS late 40’s
Him: BH (HoldingTogether)
D Day: 7/24/2010
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

posts: 14481   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2010   ·   location: Texas
id 8698065
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 1:56 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

Oh boy. Organic2003, let me start by saying that I believe men should have just as much agency over their own bodies as women should, which to me means that no man should be permanently sterilized via vasectomy unless he fully and enthusiastically agrees that it’s the best decision. However, I completely disagree with your implication that a man who gets a vasectomy has "his manhood squished". The presence of sperm in semen does not make a man a man, and the absence of it doesn’t make him NOT one—any more than an infertile or post-menopausal woman is no longer a "real woman". rolleyes I mean, seriously.

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6327   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8698071
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 2:25 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

I don't have remorse as I still believe my husband wouldn't have ever reached empathy without it.


That's pretty rich, because you never have reached empathy, and it doesn't appear that you have any interest in trying.

He isn't the problem here. You are. You're posting in the Wayward Forum from a wayward perspective because you are a wayward. If you want to defend your resentment-based entitlement and flirt with your AP without consequence and gripe about being monitored and claim that cheating was ok because a terrible therapist backed you up -- well, then, you are a classic wayward.

We aren't going to enable that here.

WW/BW 50s (Me)
BH/WH 50s (TimeSpiral)

posts: 2136   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8698074
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 3:23 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

DF, I agree with you whole heartedly on that one. Logically it makes sense that a man and a woman DON'T need to base their masculinity or femininity on how fertile they are. It still takes a while for a person to come to that conclusion though, especially when they desire more kids and the other spouse doesn't. Also, when the vasectomy/tube tying happens, there is some grieving that needs to happen about the lost opportunity for more children. In our own marriage, as we're recovering, my BH has begun expressing regret over his vasectomy and we're working through our grief together over the lost opportunity for more children. Who knows? Maybe we'll be able to have more if he reverses it. I've had cousins have kids into their 40's. Heck, my sister had a surprise baby at 40.

OP, I think the key breakdown here is communication. It seems from your writings that you're making assumptions about your BH wanting to try for a son. Have you had a frank discussion about it? I understand that sexuality and childbearing are very thorny right now, but making assumptions of his desires for more kids is only going to damage your relationship further. He may indeed like to try for a 4th, but be struggling with the risk to your health. It may be something that he will have to openly grieve with you- the loss of future children due to your health concerns.

I understand about how much self esteem can be tied up in our husband's opinion of our childbearing capacity. Have you openly discussed your feelings of inadequacy in the 3 girls with no boys you've bourn for your husband?

It seems that both your capacity for handling pain and grief are severely limited at this time. The only way you're going to be able to fix it is if you work first on yourself. Acknowledgment of the loss of trust, intimacy and respect between the two of you as a result of your affairs needs to be openly done with each other. You need to grieve with each other and share that.

Also, exploring BC options needs to be done on your part. If your husband is unwilling to undergo a permanent medical procedure, respect that. There's options for women including IUD's and also natural family planning. NFP gets scoffed at, but I used it successfully in my marriage to avoid pregnancy for 2.5 years and get pregnant with my 1st on the second cycle. Also kept pregnancy at bay for 14mos after my son while breastfeeding. Got pregnant with my daughter only on a 2nd ovulation in my cycle due to anti-biotics I was on- I had a false read and didn't know about anti-biotics being able to stimulate 2nd ovulations during the late progesterone lining buildup in the weeks prior to menstruation.

That may be TMI, but I want to demonstrate the reliability of the method. You track your fertility with mucus readings and also can confirm it with hormonal readings in your saliva on specialized devices. These are available for a hundred bucks or so and you can get a recommendation for one from your OBGYN. It's non-invasive. Spit into the sensor every morning and take your mucus reading while in the bathroom to confirm. Between the two you get a LOT of accuracy on your fertility and only have to refrain during the 2 days leading up to ovulation and 3 days after. 5 days a month and vigilance is a small price to pay for intimacy and agency over your fertility with out cancer causing hormonal treatment.

Good luck.

[This message edited by MIgander at 4:33 PM, Friday, November 12th]

posts: 205   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8698113
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 3:25 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

Also, what BSR said. 100%. You guys need to grieve together your affairs. Until you reach that point, all the stuff I just talked about is window dressing.

posts: 205   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8698114
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Organic2003 ( member #69811) posted at 3:34 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

In no way does a vasectomy make a man less than or take anything away from a man, if he wants it. It is a great method of BC. Never meant to have anyone think a man needs sperm to be a man. Hell, I have cancer that causes some serious sexual problems, I hope people still think I am a man.

My wife had to have a hysterotomy at about 36 yo, never ever thought she was less in any way just because she could not have children.

But in this situation he doesn't seem to want a vasectomy. She wants to sterilize him with the force of no sex, after forcing her RA in ways to maximize how to humiliate him.

I have seen this situation so many times and many men that summited, have found it was to prevent procreation after D. Yes I can count quickly six men that were "sterilized" to save a marriage and promises of more sex only to find cheating or D papers within a few months. All six were very sick situations that were intentional.

Weird thing is this subject has been on my mind and should start a thread.

AMILLIONDREAMS I do not know your true intent but your marriage is very shaky now. Find your heart and work to true R. Until then find a BC method that allows you and your husband move on and have more children if wanted. AMD I so understand how humiliating cheating is but your RA was directed with the greatest humiliations you could think of. Your attitude is WW still.

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 4:23 PM, Friday, November 12th]

There is opportunity in EVERYTHING

posts: 148   ·   registered: Feb. 19th, 2019
id 8698120
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prissy4lyfe ( member #46938) posted at 4:16 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

Let's not and say we did..shall we?
Lets not get in to this "manhood" "womanhood' BS that these posts seem to devolve into.


Amilliondreams I hope you come back so that we can support you.

posts: 2017   ·   registered: Feb. 24th, 2015   ·   location: Virginia
id 8698135
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 5:00 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

MIgander, I agree completely about grieving the lost opportunity for more children. I have two. I would have had many more if circumstances were different, both in my marriage and in having a firstborn with a developmental disability that requires much time and attention and makes it difficult, in our personal situation, to be willing to add more to our family. Neither my husband nor I are snipped/tied, as neither of us want to for our own individual reasons. We also don’t have sex, but that’s another story. When we were sexually active, I did NFP, as it fit with my religious beliefs, and I can attest to its efficacy, both in preventing and conceiving. smile

Thank you for your clarification, Organic2003. I did not mean to come at you the way I sounded; Prissy4lyfe is right in that this whole thing should not turn into a masculinity/femininity debate.

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6327   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8698153
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 5:14 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

You literally made your husband a cuckold!

No. She made him a BS. Just like she is a BS.

Find your heart and a better method of BC.

I see nothing wrong with wanting your husband to have a vasectomy. Why must the woman always be in charge of the BC? For many women, many forms of BC can cause medical, and mental health issues for the body. Why shouldn't a man have to step up and do something to prevent pregnancy?


You know this is a move to prevent your H from finding a women that wants children after you cheat again or D him.

Someone suggested she get a tubal. Interesting that you don't tell her not to do so, in case her husband cheats again and divorces her.

your RA was directed with the greatest humiliations you could think of.

Sorry, you don't get to decide how humiliated she was,and that her husband suffered more humiliation.

I'm sorry about your cancer.

posts: 3780   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8698161
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prissy4lyfe ( member #46938) posted at 5:34 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

If you are a man or woman if YOU do not want more children, regardless of who your partner is...then the ONUS is completely on you to ensure that you don't have more children.

posts: 2017   ·   registered: Feb. 24th, 2015   ·   location: Virginia
id 8698168
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 6:55 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

I agree with every single thing hellfire just posted—but somehow, simultaneously, I agree with every word Prissy said right there. ^

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6327   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8698180
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prissy4lyfe ( member #46938) posted at 7:15 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

Lol. I get it DF. I agree with Hellfire too. But we are responsible for protecting our bodies.man or woman.

I am not sure if i want more kids. However, I don't want any right now. So I'm not having sex. No chance of pregnancy. Lol.

If I decide in the next year I'm done I'm getting a permanent procedure. As hormonal BC had me literally smashing my solid wood coffee table in half in a fit of rage, followed immediately by a crying fit, a pint of cookies and cream ice cream and then a nap. The first 3 took place in the span of 15 mins 😂😂😂😂😂😂

posts: 2017   ·   registered: Feb. 24th, 2015   ·   location: Virginia
id 8698184
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 7:22 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

laugh laugh laugh

Seriously though, I totally get it. Since conception and gestation happens inside our bodies, it is totally true that the buck stops with us, as women.

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6327   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8698185
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 7:59 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

Don't get me wrong, ladies. I agree with both of you.

I simply think there's nothing wrong with OP's request that her husband finally step up and take the reigns in the contraceptive department. She's been married for a very long time, and her husband has put the entire responsibility on her.

I think,considering she suffered from PPD after her last child, her husband should care more about his wife's mental health, than what he is.

I think its ridiculous that she has been told she is only wanting him to have a vasectomy, because she wants to make sure he can't have another child when she decides to cheat on him again. That particular poster completely disregarded her PPD. And the fact that her husband cheated on her right after she gave birth,and she was at home dealing with a newborn, other children, and struggling with PPD. I sure as Hell wouldn't want to have another child with my husband if I were in her position. And it would have nothing to do with punishing him.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:01 PM, Friday, November 12th]

posts: 3780   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8698193
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gmc94 ( member #62810) posted at 8:26 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

I agree with every single thing hellfire just posted—but somehow, simultaneously, I agree with every word Prissy said right there.

I guess I just believe that contraception is the responsibility of BOTH parties having sex, and no way would I engage in less than satisfying sex bc I was burned out after 5-10-15+ years of being the one solely responsible for BC with a spouse who refused to pick up the slack.

Maybe tubal ligation has become less dangerous than it was 15-20 years ago, but when I was looking into it, it was SURGERY with general anesthesia - not 20 minutes (if that, according to those I know who have had vasectomies) with local in a drs office

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3509   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8698203
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 9:40 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

Not to mention, gmc, vasectomy being 1/10 of the cost.

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6327   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8698216
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WalkinOnEggshelz ( Administrator #29447) posted at 10:13 PM on Friday, November 12th, 2021

This is a problem much bigger than contraception and sex (or lack thereof).

I feel like it has become a distraction to a much bigger problem.

Me: WS late 40’s
Him: BH (HoldingTogether)
D Day: 7/24/2010
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

posts: 14481   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2010   ·   location: Texas
id 8698228
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