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I just don't understand this. He never fails to tell me what a horrible wife I am, how wonderful AP was (his soulmate - he loved her - was in love with her - is a better woman than I'll ever be) - he does not want to be with me. So WHY is he not making this go smoothly? He won't move out of the house. He is fighting even the process of divorce - says it didn't have to be this way. We should have used mediation (not an option since I don't trust him to be fair). He is still bullying me and trying to manipulate me into saying things about the settlement that would work against me. He tells me I a wasting money on the attorney who is just trying to make a fortune off me. He doesn't want to voluntarily pay some of my atty fees (he is the only one working) and would rather pay 5x more to go to court and have the judge order that he pay them anyway. WHY??? I feel like he's caused me enough pain and we should just get through this as fast as possible so we can get on with our lives.

My attorney has advised me to just not engage with him. When WH starts trying to discuss this, just tell him the attorneys are handling it. I basically have to walk out of the room to get him to stop coming at me trying to get his way. Any other ideas to get this to go more smoothly other than giving him everything he wants?

Why? Who the F knows. Easier said than done, but if I were in your shoes I'd do my best not to spend too much energy over why. IMHO, with or w/o infidelity, it's usually "about" loss of control, fear, etc.

Listen to your attorney, and don't engage (and do what you can to not let his bullcrap get under your skin. Folks will talk a big game about they'll see you in court, etc. and 9 out of 10 times they completely back down when they understand what paying 5x more for an attorney really looks like. You could still be that 10th time, but you can't control him.

I may consider getting a VAR just in case he gets verbally abusive/violent

Also, mediation is never really off the table (at least not in my neck of the woods). A good mediator can come up with a reasonable agreement, that you each then have your own attorney review before signing. IOW, if he wants to mediate, that may not be awful for you (tho it will also cost $$$ - it's basically another attorney reviewing everything and then trying to work with each party to see what each side's #1, #2, and #3 most important things are. It's not unusual - even in the most acrimonious Ds - for party A's #1 to be party B's #10).

HOWEVER - and this varies from state to state - mediation should only happen after he's submitted sworn statements about his assets, income, etc. Your attorney should be able to advise how it works in your state (eg if he lies on his income/asset info, what recourse do you have - do you have concerns about that?)

Also, like anything else (eg IC/MC), it's only more $$ out the door if you don't have a solid mediator.

I will be PRAYING that your WH gets himself a decent attorney. When one side has someone decent, and the other has someone crappy (and that can be for a bunch of reasons, inexperience, a "shark" mentality, etc), it ends up costing everyone more.

Godspeed

Yup, all about control with these types. Your attorney's advice to not engage is spot on. I suspect he'll only escalate to keep pressuring you. Gray rock and 180 are crucial at this point. And document, document, document.

[This message edited by Forks027 at 1:30 AM, Saturday, October 9th]

Get some industrial earplugs (the kind with the string connecting them) from Home Depot or Lowes and put them in any time his lips move.

I'm sorry you're in this situation. Sounds like you are where I was a while back. My WW went through a process of feeling guilty, becoming unable to stand feeling guilty, and turning really angry at me. I have been in a divorce process that will not end. At every point, my STBXW has resisted and slow-walked. At every point, aggression has been her strategy. I also used to ask why. I finally came back to where I started. She felt bad. She cannot stand feeling bad. Someone must be to blame. I am the lucky guy. The only thing that can happen in that process for her is doubling down and doubling down again and again.

I agree very strongly with gmc94. There is a whole lot of reality there. I believe I am in the camp of lucky people with the worst possible combination of having a good attorney while she has an attorney who plays along with her ideas no matter what they are. All you can do is get a good attorney, believe that attorney, and do your best to let go of the emotion.

I know that every salvo of legal moves is going to upset me a lot. If I told you the latest, I would get worked up again. So I try to plan for these times. I have a routine of things to do, including just listening to classical music while doing absolutely nothing else for a couple of hours. Anything and everything that restores me. Then I get up and try to approach the latest awfulness as emotion-free as I can. The tunnel is very dark. But it is not endless. Or at least that is what I keep holding onto. I will let you know. :)

As stupid and simple as it can sound, stay the course. You will come out the other end.

Thank you for all the support and advice everyone.

It is difficult but I am following my attorney's advice. I realized that many times during my relationship with WH, my gut was screaming that something wasn't right and I shouldn't follow him or be with him but I ignored it. WH was telling me all the right things and I didn't notice he didn't back them up with actions. I guess I wanted to believe him so badly that I chose him over me. Not anymore. I should have listened to my gut all those times and that is what I will do now. As difficult as it is, I am listening to the expert. WH is not happy about it. The decision was made for WH to give me 75% of my attorney fees by Wednesday (spent so far) and he is really angry. In front of our son, he is polite and cordial. When it's just the two of us (since he still lives here and refuses to move out) he gives me the silent treatment. He thinks this is a game. I don't see it that way. I just want to get on with my life. I imagine this would be a bit easier if I didn't have to see him every day.

I try to find some peace in my me time. Guess it's all I can do for now.

Stay in the day. Breathe. Try to grey rock him-you can read about it online.

Do you have a counselor to help you thru this?I called the domestic violence center and got a basically free counselor to help me during the craziness pre divorce. (Emotional abuse is domestic violence). It was an insane time in my life and xh had even moved out!! I also attended phone meetings of Alanon. The number is on their website. You don’t have to say a word, you can just listen for support while living with craziness.

How long b4 he moves out? He’s used to getting his way and he thinks he can get his way again. Be calm, stay locked in your room as much as possible, and remember you can call the police. I did 7 times and he finally got the message that I was finished playing his BS games. I NEVER responded verbally, I let the police speak for me to him when he came here and tried to start bs. He got an atty who told him to stop harassing the kids and I.
Happy days are ahead for you and your child!!! The minute he moves out, change the locks. I told my kids our property lines were our safe haven from the world. No one, including their Dad, was gonna ruin that for us. They thrived here and learned about how to stand up to a bully (their Dad) without getting sucked into a fight.

Thank you for the advice homewrecked2011. I am seeing a counselor and she is very helpful. I also go to an infidelity support group. Just from the stories I tell them, they hate WH lol.

I don't know when he's moving out. He has no plans to. He says it's his house - he pays for it - so he's not leaving. Plus, he has no where to go. He won't even sleep in another room - he is still sleeping in my bed! Luckily it's king size so I can pretty much stay on my side but I really wish he would go the the guest room. When I ask him to, he says I should go to the guest room. I want to for my sanity but then my stubborn side says why should I - he's the cheater. I've got to work that out somehow.

WH is very angry because I am listening to my attorney and not his manipulation. I don't speak with him about anything D related anymore. We have a joint calendar for our son and he plays games on that too. I am still not comfortable leaving my son home alone because of what he's been dealing with, so I block out time on the calendar when I need to go somewhere so WH can stay with him. WH has started blocking out the same times as me, then saying I guess you'll have to change your plans or you can't have all the free time for yourself (I don't) or he can stay alone now (he knows I am not comfortable with that and would change my plans to make sure I would be here since WH won't). Everything is a game to him. He is so spiteful. And like I said I don't get it. He does not want to be married to me yet is still making this a nightmare. Go figure.

I'm hoping during our sitdown we can discuss him moving out but I don't expect to agree. I'll let my attorney take it from there.

This is how control freaks deal with loss of control.

It was not his idea to D and his "how dare YOU D me!" Attitude now shows.

Ignoring him is the worst thing you can do. And I doubt it will change any time soon.

This is how control freaks deal with loss of control.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

As the others have said:

1. Listen to your lawyer. Do not engage. Have a handful of bland phrases memorized to repeat to him that work really well or just shrug your shoulders and leave the room. How are you? I don't wish to discuss my day. Why are you wasting money on a lawyer? I am sorry that you feel that way. How you are going to survive financially without my income? My lawyer advises me to not answer that question

2. You are free to move into the guest bedroom... so why not do that? Take all of your stuff out of your current bedroom and make a nice, safe space for yourself. AND LOCK THE DOOR.

3. I also made myself scarce when I was doing in-home separation. I set up a parenting schedule and I was there 100% of the time when I was "on duty" and I was generally gone when I was not "on duty." Even better, my ex began leaving the house when she was not on duty. (note: crazy people often imitate others).

4. Generally speaking, being a grey rock is the way to go. Do not show any emotion around him, good or bad. The opposite of love is indifference, not hate. You need to show him indifference. Also, NO EXTRA INFORMATION IN ANY OF YOUR STATEMENTS. JUST FACTS. NO THREATS. NO OPINIONS. EVER.

The1stWife, I agree with you. He wanted to just continue living this way at least until our son was out of the house. Not an option for me.

Barcher, thank you for the advice. I am working on not engaging and I do so as little as possible. We use a calendar app for our son and try to mainly communicate schedules through that. No small talk. The less I speak with him the better. It just boggles my mind how he expects some things not to change just because he still lives here. The fact that I filed for D changes everything, despite where he lives. Just seems so odd that he doesn't get that.

He gets that things would change. He just assumed you would never stand up to him and force them to change. He thought he had control over everything.

Just remember people hate change. Especially when it’s not their idea and they have no control.

Barcher gave you great suggestions. Memorize them. And then randomly answer questions with things that don’t make sense.

Q from the STBXH - how was your day?

A (from you) - I’m sorry you feel that way.

And on and on.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:47 PM, Tuesday, October 12th]

You have to accept that nature is pulling you one way but your common sense it pulling you another. Human beings are like magnets when we are around each other. Our natural inclination is to interact with the other. In your case it is detrimental to your sanity. So you need to change your schedule. Are you home during the day? If so as soon as your son gets home feed him supper. 3:30/4:00 if possible. Pick up a rotisserie chicken, some veggies/fruit and eat while your stbx is not home. Make sure you don’t bad mouth his father. Just say this is more convenient/ comfortable for you. Make sure you do your laundry every day. If your stbx puts his clothes in the washing machine take them out, wash yours, dry yours and put his back in the machine dirty. If he uses your detergent store it some place he won’t look. You have been fired from looking after him. When in the same room as him practice thinking he is not there. Any question he asks should be answered with a shrug, yes or no. No explanations. If he gets insistent tell him to contact his lawyer. You don’t owe him conversation. If you have to be in the same room to watch tv give it up and use library books at night. Sleep in another room. Don’t be stubborn about it. You want to get out of stress and sleeping in the same bed is stressful. Let him win that battle. You want to win the war and that is getting him to leave.

Lastly, gray rock means you are so boring that he can’t find anything to grab onto to get your goat. You just become a boring old gray rock.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 5:13 AM, Wednesday, October 13th]

the1stWife, that would be hilarious. I hope I can do that.

Cooley2here, that would be difficult. WH works a rotating schedule so his work hours and days off are always different. My son is homeschooled so I am usually here doing that. WH used to be out all the time and now whenever he is not working and our son is here, he is usually here hovering over him. WH thinks that whenever he is not working, he gets priority with our son to spend time with him. His position is that he is working 40 hours per week (usually) and I am here so I can spend time with my son then. Of course, my son has schoolwork, plays video games, talks with friends, etc and does not "spend" 40 hours per week with me even if I am in the same place as him. WH also will take a day off without telling me and think he just automatically gets to spend that time with our son, even if my son and I had other plans. To avoid arguing in front of our son I usually don't say anything except that I disagree with him. I try not to put our son in the middle. Everything is a fight with him and I'm not sure how much he really disagrees with and how much is just him having to be the opposite of me.

He thinks this is a game. I don't see it that way. I just want to get on with my life.

That's exactly what I've faced since the moment I decided my marriage was done. I'm more than ready to move on, but the lack of legal settlement won't let me. What I did with the help of IC has really made a difference: I've siloed off the ex as much as possible emotionally, and I have quietly pursued my own goals on my own terms. It's not perfect, but the more time I spend focused on myself and my future, the less she matters. It feels good. And when I have to deal with her, which is pretty common, I now get amused at her responses instead of worked up about them. I actually had to work hard the last time to not laugh. That felt like victory.

Thank you for the suggestion Slanted. It is difficult to have no emotional reaction when I feel as if he is being spiteful or intentionally causing distress. It is all such a mystery to me. He cheated and has told me he wants nothing to do with me, so why not get the D over with as soon as possible? What he is fighting about now is absolutely RIDICULOUS. It wouldn't even cost him any money yet he refuses to do it. And it's also more difficult to distance in any way when he still lives here. But I'm trying to do so without getting my son stuck in the middle. I just keep reminding myself it will get worse before it gets better...

Just want to echo that YOU can - and IMO, SHOULD - move into the guest room.
distance
distance
distance.

So what if he has the "big" room? Yes, it's not "fair" (and we all know there is NOTHING "fair" about infidelity), but you need to be sane and keep that distance.

If you and DS have plans, stick to them! IIRC, your DS has had some struggles... what does DS' IC say about dad blasting plans apart at the last minute?

Luckily it's king size so I can pretty much stay on my side but I really wish he would go the the guest room. When I ask him to, he says I should go to the guest room. I want to for my sanity but then my stubborn side says why should I - he's the cheater. I've got to work that out somehow.

That's cutting off your nose to spite your face. I get it - it is not in any way fair. But, getting clear of him as much as you can right now is worth any price IMHO. And you are very right - in my case at least, things got WAY better for me when we separated.

Hang in there and just stay NC as much as you can.

Thank you both. NC is so tough when still living together. Today he tells me HE forgives ME for how poorly I treated him, and that i need to forgive him and move on. He realizes I'm scorned but it's not good for any of us for me to stay focused on this. Even now he still tries to manipulate.

He’s SCARED!!

He’s afraid he will lose more $ in the D so he’s trying to soften the blow. He’s trying to head you off.

What a moron!