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It had been a few weeks between sessions this time and this one was a little different than most from the past. We did more of a "check-in/check-up" type of session where a couple of things were explored, but not a great deal of depth.

One piece discussed was the blow up I had on the Sunday following D-Day v1.0. Yes, I exploded. I instantly Hulked out, punched a hole in a door, and spent 20 minutes spewing more swear words than I had in 20 years.

I talked about how I wish that hadn't been my reaction, that I wish I had responded in a more calm fashion and how I replay that 30-45 minutes daily in my mind, even 4 1/2 years later.

The MC asked me what I wish I had done differently. My answer was hard for Mrs. Cap to hear. I said that I wish I hadn't said anything after seeing her text to AP that said "Heartsick. Miss you." I wish I had simply gone to the bedroom, packed a few days worth of things and just left. Would I have come back? At some point. But what I really needed was to cool down.

Mrs. Cap didn't say anything at that point, but I could tell that there was emotion. It could have been from just remembering how traumatized she was. It could have been the thought of what she did potentially leading to me leaving. Who knows?

She did say that my response that night is what caused her anxiety to explode and wouldn't allow her to do anything R related until this past January.

Interestingly, the MC actually called her out on that saying that anxiety is a mask and an excuse that people use to not do something that is hard for them. Not that the MC was saying anxiety doesn't exist, but saying that not addressing the anxiety and the issues surrounding it allows the anxiety to stay and be used as an excuse. Basically, the MC told Mrs. Cap that the event may have caused the anxiety, but she is the one who hid behind it instead of taking a healing path. I found that to be a very interesting part of today's discussion.

I did open up again and allowed emotion to come out. Next week, we were tasked with bringing anything else that we needed to still talk through, A-related or otherwise. My list is long. There are one or two that I feel OK with bringing up (such as her joke about inviting my buddy from out of state to go workout with her...a thoughtless, insensitive joke; the trust issues I still have because aof a lack of transparency on her part) but the hardest thing that I know needs discussed from my perspective is the "I've never really loved you" statement. To this day, it still haunts me. Not because it was said, but because in the 4 1/2 years since, I've watched the actions and have seen that, while Mrs. Cap says those words aren't true, her actions pre-A, during, and post-A all tell a different story, all pointing to those words being absolutely true.

That one is going to be a hard one.

Overall, a good session today. Here's to next week.

Stop kicking yourself in the ass! No one's reaction to discovery is ever calm or rational. In fact, it's a perfectly reasonable reason to completely lose one's shit!

[This message edited by Unhinged at 10:00 PM, July 7th, 2021 (Wednesday)]

Oh, I know that it's a perfectly normal response. But as a Cub fan, I pride myself on being abnormal. (Beat you to it!)

In reality, I never actually went (as the MC said) batshit crazy at any of the discovery. I lost it when I saw the text, confronted her on it, and she lied about even sending one. That was when I lost it.

So, what I really wish I had done was see it, confront the AP (which I did to find out was it from him to her or vice versa), then just walk out the door.

Her "anxiety" mess is hers to own. Not my responsibility. But my Hulking out...purely mine to own. And I do feel sorrow over that explosion. I don't beat myself up over it. Just wish I had responded differently.

...but the hardest thing that I know needs discussed from my perspective is the "I've never really loved you" statement. To this day, it still haunts me. Not because it was said, but because in the 4 1/2 years since, I've watched the actions and have seen that, while Mrs. Cap says those words aren't true, her actions pre-A, during, and post-A all tell a different story, all pointing to those words being absolutely true.

That's going to be a dagger. However, it points to a much bigger issue. Not going to be pretty and may be devastating.

That's going to be a dagger.

Quite indeed. That is one of the reasons for my nervousness about bringing it back up.

Unfortunately the only way to extricate said dagger is to talk about it. How it comes out depend on her honesty and understanding that telling the whole truth is the only path forward.

Always with the quick excuses, this lady. Makes for interesting reading. She's quite a piece of work.

She doesn't seem like someone trying very hard.

Her therapist is always having to “explain” some pretty obvious basic crap to her. Is that getting old for you yet? Does it strike you as someone who is being willfully obtuse? It does to me.

Making a joke about taking another man to workout. Ha ha. So funny. I mean what an actual ass.

She did say that my response that night is what caused her anxiety to explode and wouldn't allow her to do anything R related until this past January.

Blameshifting, gaslighting, a form of DARVO. The hallmarks of narcissism.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:42 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]

That's why the MC called her out on hiding behind anxiety and using it as an excuse.

You have a great therapist.

Thank you for sharing the therapist's responses. Even years later it helps me (and I assume others).

I love therapy. And I've done a ton of it with many different therapists. I've also done MC. In my experience, an MC usually trying to "uncover" the bullshit in the M and put it in the center of the room. That means that one person is frequently prodded to share what hurts while the other is forced to listen and acknowledge that hurt. Sure, it goes both ways but not evenly. It just doesn't. One person in the M is often stuffing and stifling their needs and feelings which have been ignored, and the other person is often overly self-focused on their feelings and perceptions. A good MC sees that after a few sessions. They can see the codependent stuffer and the selfish whiner, and they know their job is to rebalance the M. If at all possible.

The MC will ask the stuffer to share. The selfish one will jump in and say something like, "But I was treated really badly!" To which the MC will shoot them down. "Excuse me, selfish whiner, but no, that isn't acceptable behavior." Boom. The MC has to do this, has to try to get the codependent partner to stand up for their needs and the selfish partner to STOP selfishly focusing on their own needs if there is to be a peaceful, functioning M. I still remember my MC telling my H, "But those are intentions. Intentions are not the same as actions, right? You know that? You don't get credit in life for good intentions, only actual actions."

Captain, your posts indicate that your MC thinks you have not advocated for yourself enough in this M, and she wants you to stop stuffing your feelings. The MC also seems to think that your WW needs to STFU and acknowledge your pain.

Blameshifting, gaslighting, a form of DARVO. The hallmarks of narcissism.

Gotta say that I agree with this.

Mrs. Cap didn't say anything at that point, but I could tell that there was emotion.

Lol. That is codependent projection talking. You want to see emotion in her because it gives you hope, and that hope lets you stay M. You have no ability to entertain not being M so need to feel hope (imo).

The thing is, your MC will most likely not say, "Captain, your WW is an abusive narcissist and never going to change." Even if she wants to. But honestly, that's what I think your MC believes.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 8:10 AM, July 8th (Thursday)]

That's why the MC called her out on hiding behind anxiety and using it as an excuse.

I know that but hopefully you see my point: your wife knows exactly what she is doing.

She isn't a dumb woman.

She doesn't need a therapist to tell her that. She already knew.

The larger point is that at this late date she still thinks these manipulative gambits are a winning hand for her.

Hmm. Your MC seems like a good egg but your WW is just using the whole exercise in service of more manipulation, which is another reason why MC is usually warned against.

[This message edited by Thumos at 8:13 AM, July 8th (Thursday)]

Cap, did your WW say anything about the session during or after?

It seems you have a very talented MC. A blessing!

I wonder if you are also in IC?

I think some of your journey is strictly personal, and I hope you are seeking support and clarity from a counselor who is primarily invested in your healing.

Wishing you the best.

She didn't say anything about the session, neko. But she doesn't generally say anything after the sessions anyway, so nothing new there.

As to IC, HardKnocks, the answer is yes on that. Have been doing IC again for the last 8 months or so. We are working on a variety of things there.

It might be difficult to raise those issues, but so what? If truth has value, only good is likely to come from putting those demons to rest, one way or another.

Part of it being difficult is fear of the answer or of finding out the underlying truth. But as others have said, it must happen. This limbo thing doesn't work so well and it eats away at us forever until it is resolved.

I agree with the DARVO comment unfortunately. It really gets me annoyed at her. SHE IS NOT THE VICTIM here and she has to stop seeing herself that way in this situation. I think this comes down to her not being attuned to you at all - just herself so far and her actions tell that story.

Big hugs Cap.

SHE IS NOT THE VICTIM here and she has to stop seeing herself that way in this situation.

That's actually on my list as well, ISSF. I'm tired of constantly being the villain in her story, only to have the MC say to her "You aren't the victim here."

Being the villain every time wears on a person.

As to IC, HardKnocks, the answer is yes on that. Have been doing IC again for the last 8 months or so. We are working on a variety of things there.

Awesome. Good going!!

Thumos, you have a pm.

I don’t think your therapist is necessarily trying to save your marriage at this point... I think she’s trying to wake you up to the reality of your situation and helping you see through the fog of your wife’s manipulations so that you are able to save yourself.

I always find it interesting how you say “wife showed emotion”... not cried, screamed, whimpered, whined, etc.... the way one would try describe behavior they’re witnessing. It’s like your wife in an alien and you can’t quite put together the meaning behind her mannerisms.

I disagree with those that say she is being willfully obtuse. I think she has a very limited range of emotions and simply can’t comprehend any depth or complexity of feeling beyond anger, contempt, amused, or content.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 5:41 PM, July 8th (Thursday)]