Newest Member: girlangry89

Just Found Out :
Pretty certain my (28M) wife(27F) is having an emotional affair

Topic is Sleeping.
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 CheesecakeBaker (original poster Member #78991) posted at 11:27 AM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

This goes against what many people here have said about me not engaging with her. She could tell something was up with me and kept asking what was going on and what's bothering me. I finally broke and talked to her....

I mentioned my specific concerns and told her that what's been happening is not okay and that it feels like lines and boundaries are being crossed. She seemed unphased. She seemed offended that I would even think that something inappropriate was going on. She denied that they have been physical together. She said "I've only been out till 2am with him twice". Yeah, well that's two too many times for me, I said.

She seemed to refuse to even attempt...to see it from my point of view. Or an outside perspective. It's telling to me that so many other people could recognize that maybe even texting a coworker so much and worrying about his well being after the drinking was crossing a line. My wife seems to refuse to believe that she's crossing lines. She refused to acknowledge that maybe what she's doing is wrong or actually hurtful. "He's like my best friend right now". Yeah, well why can't I be that? I'm your husband! I know things are rocky and weird with us right now - but I'm trying to work on things and I can't help but feel there's stuff you're not telling me.

All I want is for her to accept some..responsibility and remorse. She kept saying "what do you want me to do?" She kept pointing out that they really haven't been together too much or stayed out late more than twice. Ugh it just feels like we got nowhere.

When I spoke with her and told her how hurt and uncomfortable her behavior with Mark is making me, she seemed unphased. Her first reaction, rather than being sorry or concerned that I'm being hurt, was to say "well what do you want me to do about it?"

I shouldn't have to walk her through this. She's a very intelligent person: she should be able to see that *maybe* there's even just a slight chance that what she's doing would look bad to anyone looking from the outside in? She's blinded by whatever she's feeling and doing.

She kept...deflecting. I told her it made me uncomfortable that she was out till 2am drunk with him, that it was weird. She said "well that's only happened twice." She noted that they've only been to three soccer game "dates" together.

That doesn't matter to me. The amount of times doesn't matter. What matters is that now she knows how it is hurting me and that I told her I am not going to put up with it anymore. She should proceed accordingly.

I told her that I want to be happy and I want to be with someone who makes me happy. I said I want her to be with someone she wants to be with also, and I don't want either of us to have to feel forced or like every day we have to try to conjure up feelings for the other person. She told me she loves me and wants to be with me. It felt hollow. I told her she seems completely emotionally invested in him and that there's no more room for me. I told her I feel like a roommate who sits around while she dates Mark. She kept saying "we're just friends" and "I'm not even with him all that much".

She denied any physical intimacy between them. She said that other coworkers have asked her if "anything is going on" between her and Mark. I asked her what does "is anything going on mean" to her? She couldn't spell it out.

I told her that I find it incredibly hard to believe that Mark--a single guy my age--has anything to gain from being "just friends" with a married woman. I told her that no matter how good of a guy she thinks he is, he has certainly had the thought crossed his mind of "hmm, what if?" She denied that they talk about their feelings for each other. I don't believe it. I told her that if He knows about our marriage issues, then it makes it even more suspicious that he continues to hang around. It's like he's just waiting for the off-chance we do breakup so he can have her with "no strings".

I can't shake the feeling that she's lying to me. Something *more* has to be going on and she is trickle-truthing me. I feel gaslit, I feel crazy that I'm feeling so bothered and anxious by all this. I wish she'd show some fucking remorse or own up to it.

I told her how I sat on telling her my true feelings about this for so long because I was being too considerate of her feelings and neglecting my own but that I needed to protect myself going forward. I told her we need to tell each other the hard stuff that might hurt the other person and be ready to do so. I mentioned that I want to be open and honest and vulnerable with her and would expect the same from her. Even if she thinks it'll hurt me or I can't handle it, I want her to tell me.

I am not going to talk to her about this again. There's no point. She seems unwilling to accept that she's in the wrong here and very plainly hurting a person she claims to love. I know I'm being naive and stupid and will get tons of comments telling me similarly...but I am struggling so hard to get my head and heart around the idea of snooping into her phone. Honestly, I've been curious. But despite the heartbreak she's causing me, it's really hard for me to pull the trigger on that. And even if I did and even if I found something damning...I think I'd have an even more difficult time figuring out how to best confront her with that information.

I feel so down on myself that I feel this way. That I feel so stuck. That I've let myself get to this position. I can't stop thinking where I screwed up along the way, what's wrong with me, what can I change, how can I change, why is this happening....I am so tired of all of this.

[This message edited by CheesecakeBaker at 5:36 AM, June 24th (Thursday)]

posts: 103   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2021
id 8669310
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annb ( Member #22386) posted at 11:49 AM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

Married women who are faithful do not stay out til 2 am with a single guy or any guy for that matter. She's on dates with this guy while married.

I agree, she's intelligent, gently, she's playing you for a fool.

She's lying. You know it in your gut, everyone here knows it.

She's unremorseful and is indifferent to your feelings. She sounds like a spoiled little child who is going to get her way no matter what.

You are too young to put up with this sh*t. I have three sons around your age, and my advice as a mother would be to tell them to run and never look back.

.

posts: 11257   ·   registered: Jan. 10th, 2009   ·   location: Northeast
id 8669314
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Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 11:53 AM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

As I said in my post on the previous page you need to take it a step further and tell her that there is no more you and her if there is still this guy in her life. That you can tell she’s in to him far more than she’s in to you and you are letting her go explore whatever she needs to with this guy, but you will not remain her husband while she does. That you’re moving on to let her figure out if what she has with him is what she truly wants.

Then be very clear,“I am not interested with being with you if you are simply going to be pining away for him. That is not a loving relationship to me. That’s not something I am interested in living with.

Until you are rid of him in your heart and mind, I will not be your partner in love and life. And that means if you want me then he is out of your life forever. And that means stopping working with him. Never seeing him again. Quitting your job if you have to.

You have broken my trust. It has seriously damaged our relationship. Working to rebuild that doesn’t even start until he is out of our lives forever. It won’t work if you are still seeing him. It won’t work if you still hold a place in your heart and mind for him.

So don’t fake it. If you love him, go be with him. I don’t want to waste my life with someone who loves someone else more than me. I don’t want to be with someone who enjoys life with someone else more than they do with me.

Until you see him as a person who is a threat to your marriage. Until you see him as someone trying to take advantage of you and injure me the man you vowed to love and protect, then our relationship is doomed.

I have a lot of healing to do from this. If all you’re going to do is inflict more pain by being with this other man, then That only makes my healing more difficult. So go be with him and leave me alone. I’ll work legally end the marriage your relationship with this other man has already seriously damaged.”

Then as you said, stop discussing it. You’ve made your point. If she says she’ll end it with the other guy tell her fine do it now with no last kiss or goodbye. And tell her if she’s simply going to just end it but keep him in her heart, then tell her not to waste her or your time. It won’t work.

Until he is out of her heart, you’ll never have peace. Sorry to state it so harshly, but unfortunately that’s the reality.

Keep posting. But until you state emphatically what I and others have mentioned here, this won’t end and you’ll continue to live a life in limbo.

Cheesecake, this is what fighting for your marriage truly looks like. It’s not “giving her space so she can secretly date other guys”. Loving couples don’t need “space” from each other. She was feeling “smothered” because she wanted a “boyfriend” and being married to you was keeping her from that. So stop capitulating to her every demand. You know what you need to see hear and feel to stay in this relationship. Communicate exactly that and then begin to move on until you absolutely see hear and feel it from her.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 6:04 AM, June 24th (Thursday)]

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3167   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8669315
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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 12:02 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

I'm sorry to read that post. I could feel your pain.

In her current state of mind (you crying begging, pleading, your rational arguments, and telling her your heart breaks) is viewed as you being weak (very unattractive to her) - and a free pass to continue her inappropriate behavior.

Every response (or lack of) is typical of a woman having an affair (EA and likely a PA, unless the OM does not like women). Single men 'date' they don't waste that much time on just a friend.

I can't tell you how many thousands of times we hear: she'd never cheat or she'd never look me in the eyes and lie.

Your wife's appears to be addicted to the 'feeling' she gets from contact with the OM. It's probably fantasy because she doesn't really know him - but to her it's real.

You need to treat her like an addict instead of your best friend. It's clear she has no empathy for you; nor can she act in a way that is consistent with marriage.

Your failure last night was two fold:

1- Acting hurt. You should have been angry (not threatening) but civil so she views you as serious. You have to show extreme anger to offset your previous passive rational (pick/love me) approach.

2 -- Chose me or divorce. You should ended with: she chooses the OM or her husband/marriage on the spot. Non negotiable, and with no time to think about it. Because if she needs to think about it, you already lost her.

FINALLY, in legal terms. You may have to have a video or witness to infidelity for a jury/court. But that standard of evidence does not apply here.

Marriage custom may dictate that you initially had the burden proof. However, based on her behavior the burden of proof has shifted to her.

Stop trying to talk rationally to her about your feelings or her behavior. Her behavior is not rational and she's not thinking about the consequences.

Your passiveness (complain/cry but don't act) convinced her there will be no consequences. She got away with at least two 'dates' that ended at the OM's place. If that didn't wake you up, what will?

posts: 2409   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8669317
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beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 12:09 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

CCB,

Your WW is definitely into deep with the affair. The affair fog is so deep right now she's denying it herself. Nobody in their right mind would spend until 2AM in a single guy's house doing nothing.
Adults have sex, they don't do nothing until 2AM. She said it herself that they're doing 'date' nights. They're dating, clearly they are dating. She's her boyfriend whether you like it or not.
Have some self respect and pull the trigger. She's no longer yours she's Mark's now.

Even if you wanted to, how about the thoughts that keep coming onto your mind whenever she's with Mark. Yes, they're doing it. Will you be able to accept her like that? She's more intimate with Mark than you, in fact she even checks on him everyday more than you. You haven't been intimate with her for a long time. That intimacy is gone. It's owned by Mark. She's intimate with Mark.

Please have some self respect and walk away now. It will do you more good than harm.

posts: 376   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8669319
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 CheesecakeBaker (original poster Member #78991) posted at 12:24 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

I was encouraged by a fellow poster here to share some additional details. They stumbled upon another post of mine On reddit, wherein I wrote a "letter to my dad" asking for marriage advice a few weeks ago. I'd like to share it here and provide more context and perspective to what's going on.

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"Hey Dad, I'm having marriage troubles and my mental health is really taking a toll. I feel stuck and don't know what to do."

Sorry in advance for the long, venting session. But I guess I could use some objective insight, advice, and encouragement? I’m happy to answer any additional questions or talk more after you read this. But I could really use some help.

About two months ago my wife and I started actually addressing why our relationship has seemed so “rocky” lately. I had assumed that it was because of the stress of the pandemic, her losing her job, starting a new one, me being forced to take on more work and in turn getting even more stressed out, and the stress of having a new (pre-pandemic) puppy to train. But apparently it’s a lot more than that - and she only just now told me more details about it.

She talked about how emotionally distant and disconnected we have become. Apparently I was too ignorant to realize how serious it was earlier and now I am scared that it's too late. She talked about how it's hard for her that I don't really have any friends and don't make an effort to meet new people. This is true and I acknowledged as such: I guess I got so comfortable and complacent with working from home and being only around her that I lost sight of that and kind of gave up on meeting new people. But I know it is frustrating for her and hard for her to be my only social outlet and emotional support. I know she feels sad and guilty when she goes out with her friends, and I'm at home alone. I've already taken steps to try and meet new people and make friends (joined a local running club, a local softball league, and signed up for a golf tourney every other weekend this summer!)

She also talked about How we have stopped having sex (something I've brought up to her a few times before, as my sexual attraction to her is still so strong). she doesn't want to be in a sex-less marriage (and neither do I), but doesn't see it changing for her anytime soon. She said that on some level she's felt like we might not have ever had a connection (emotionally or sexually). She said that lately it’s felt like I’m less of a partner and more of a best friend, and that she thinks it’s because of the lack of physical connection we have had.

It was such a hard conversation for me to hear. I feel devastated and broken. I am struggling to eat or sleep or focus on anything else. I told her that I am willing to work on this, starting with working on my own self and ensuring I can be happy on my own and satisfied doing things apart from her. I emphasized that I desire her and am so attracted to her and still want to be with her physically. She asked for some space and I’ve been trying to respect that.

To me, it feels like so much of this “distance” has been created by herself. I want to continue being physically intimate with her; but can’t force her to do that with me. I WANT to be a romantic and life partner to her, and her best friend, but can’t fix the broken physical connection on me own. She seems so against doing anything physical with me at all - even hugging! I WANT to talk to her and figure this stuff out but she doesn’t ever respond with coherent answers and usually just sits there emotionless while I tell her how I am feeling. She says she doesn’t know why she feels like this or what the solution could be. I don’t know what to do right now. I feel like she isn’t addressing any of these issues herself or trying to figure things out on her own and I’m over here nervous and sad and anxious and frustrated.

My self confidence has been absolutely shot after we talked a bit about sex…because I feel so inadequate and like I’ve never been able to please her this whole time and she never told me. I am tired of being rejected. I’m tired of feeling like I can’t get a hug from my wife, or even talk to her about these problems right now—because of how weird things are with us. I hate that it feels like she has no drive to talk or connect with me. I hate that she works longer hours and seems to enjoy being away from home more. I hate that I feel like she never wants to be around me. I hate feeling like there’s nothing I can do but sit on my hands and wait for her to figure out what she wants.

Dad, I don’t want to lose her and I want to make things work because I HAVE BEEN happy with her and want to get that back. I know we both deserve to be happy and I want us to try to get back to being happy together.

I feel so stuck, lost, confused, and lonely. But I don’t know what to do.Sorry in advance for the long, venting session. But I guess I could use some objective insight, advice, and encouragement? I’m happy to answer any additional questions or talk more after you read this. But I could really use some help.

About two months ago my wife and I started actually addressing why our relationship has seemed so “rocky” lately. I had assumed that it was because of the stress of the pandemic, her losing her job, starting a new one, me being forced to take on more work and in turn getting even more stressed out, and the stress of having a new (pre-pandemic) puppy to train. But apparently it’s a lot more than that - and she only just now told me more details about it.

She talked about how emotionally distant and disconnected we have become. Apparently I was too ignorant to realize how serious it was earlier and now I am scared that it's too late. She talked about how it's hard for her that I don't really have any friends and don't make an effort to meet new people. This is true and I acknowledged as such: I guess I got so comfortable and complacent with working from home and being only around her that I lost sight of that and kind of gave up on meeting new people. But I know it is frustrating for her and hard for her to be my only social outlet and emotional support. I know she feels sad and guilty when she goes out with her friends, and I'm at home alone. I've already taken steps to try and meet new people and make friends (joined a local running club, a local softball league, and signed up for a golf tourney every other weekend this summer!)

She also talked about How we have stopped having sex (something I've brought up to her a few times before, as my sexual attraction to her is still so strong). she doesn't want to be in a sex-less marriage (and neither do I), but doesn't see it changing for her anytime soon. She said that on some level she's felt like we might not have ever had a connection (emotionally or sexually). She said that lately it’s felt like I’m less of a partner and more of a best friend, and that she thinks it’s because of the lack of physical connection we have had.

It was such a hard conversation for me to hear. I feel devastated and broken. I am struggling to eat or sleep or focus on anything else. I told her that I am willing to work on this, starting with working on my own self and ensuring I can be happy on my own and satisfied doing things apart from her. I emphasized that I desire her and am so attracted to her and still want to be with her physically. She asked for some space and I’ve been trying to respect that.

To me, it feels like so much of this “distance” has been created by herself. I want to continue being physically intimate with her; but can’t force her to do that with me. I WANT to be a romantic and life partner to her, and her best friend, but can’t fix the broken physical connection on me own. She seems so against doing anything physical with me at all - even hugging! I WANT to talk to her and figure this stuff out but she doesn’t ever respond with coherent answers and usually just sits there emotionless while I tell her how I am feeling. She says she doesn’t know why she feels like this or what the solution could be. I don’t know what to do right now. I feel like she isn’t addressing any of these issues herself or trying to figure things out on her own and I’m over here nervous and sad and anxious and frustrated.

My self confidence has been absolutely shot after we talked a bit about sex…because I feel so inadequate and like I’ve never been able to please her this whole time and she never told me. I am tired of being rejected. I’m tired of feeling like I can’t get a hug from my wife, or even talk to her about these problems right now—because of how weird things are with us. I hate that it feels like she has no drive to talk or connect with me. I hate that she works longer hours and seems to enjoy being away from home more. I hate that I feel like she never wants to be around me. I hate feeling like there’s nothing I can do but sit on my hands and wait for her to figure out what she wants.

Dad, I don’t want to lose her and I want to make things work because I HAVE BEEN happy with her and want to get that back. I know we both deserve to be happy and I want us to try to get back to being happy together.

I feel so stuck, lost, confused, and lonely. But I don’t know what to do.

posts: 103   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2021
id 8669321
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beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 12:37 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

CCB,

You don't want to lose her but sadly you already did. I feel your pain, bro. I really do. But you need to give yourself some respect. She's cheating! She's lying to your face!
Do you think you can take this for 1-2 more months? I can assure you, tonight she will be again at Mark's place, she will have lunch with Mark, she will have dinner with Mark. She will have 'date' nights with Mark.

If you're having trouble pulling the trigger, then at least just ask her for a divorce then see her reaction. If she comes back to you, then fine. Establish your boundaries. Make her leave the work so she can't be with Mark. She needs to give out all the information about her affair. Ask her for a timeline.

If you don't want to lose her then at least be a man and act now. You will only hurt more if you're just doing nothing about it. She already asked you, 'what are you gonna do about it?' coz you've been doing nothing.

Once she realizes you're stepping up, maybe she'll come back, maybe she won't. But at least you'll know where you are. You'll have a starting point and plan your next steps. But at least establish your clear boundaries.

Good luck!

posts: 376   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8669322
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Bonetired ( Member #78518) posted at 12:50 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

'You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.' I am applying that to your wife by the way.The way you feel about this is valid. I second the idea of gathering evidence not to be mean or throw it in her face. I suggest it for you. The confusion is palpable with your posts and the denial of what your marriage is and who she is. She isn't being honest with herself right now so she can't be honest with you. I have seen this many times before "Oh it's no big deal. You are over reacting. Reading too much into it. I'm not the one who has the problem. It's you" . Sound familiar? This is called denial. Let me point something out here. Whether or not she is or isn't sleeping with this man she is still crossing your boundaries with your marriage. She is still invalidating your feelings, boundaries,etc. You have a marriage and that is a contract. The two of you may not be an appropriate fit for each other. It sounds like what you want in a marriage isn't what she wants and vice versa. So on those grounds you already have enough to know what to do next. Even if you aren't ready for the inevitable at least start the 180. You aren't happy and recognize something is wrong here. It's ok to be the one to pull that plug. She is in too much of a fog right now to understand what she is doing and why. This other man. What a fucking boundary crosser. l had been in a situation such as this and see so many similar behaviors coming from her that my XWH did to me. Gaslighting, rug sweeping, acting like I am the crazy one and not him. It's difficult to digest this when you are so in love with this person that you want to believe you are wrong but you know you aren't. The OM we will call him should know and understand that his relationship with your wife is inappropriate and if he is a true friend to her it wouldn't be this way. A decent person with moral integrity would put restraints on a friendship to a friend with a spouse. It's respectful to do so and appropriate. It says a lot about his character. The both of them should understand this as grown adults. They are acting like children that want their cake and eat all of it too. It sounds to me like she isn't emotionally or mentally mature enough to understand this.It's situations such as these where most of us wish we could take over your mind and do it for you. Alas we can not. This is your journey and life lesson. They are hard but offer growth that will be invaluable one day when it's behind you. It's hard to see when I understand how difficult this is for you. You are the nice guy just as I was the nice girl. I believed once that you always fight and stick through the hard times no matter what. However this only works when both partners have that same value. Good luck and hugs for now.

[This message edited by Bonetired at 7:03 AM, June 24th (Thursday)]

posts: 340   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2021   ·   location: Grand Rapids
id 8669325
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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 12:53 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

IMO your fear of divorce prevents you from standing up for yourself.

Your fear is a lot more complex than your 'love'. You are too emotionally dependent on her.

You are being emotionally abused and appear to not be able to help yourself. You need professional help.

1 - I think you should see a doctor for help sleeping and anxiety. Share your story with the doctor they can help you.

2 - Sign up for IC with a therapist with experience in infidelity. In addition, you need to explore why you are so dependent on her and develop a plan to fix it (so you don't repeat with her or your next wife).

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 6:54 AM, June 24th (Thursday)]

posts: 2409   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8669326
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Rufus ( New Member #75754) posted at 12:55 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

Oh boy. My wife said many similar things and wanted me to read books like "His needs, Her needs." Like you, I was being made to believe the problem, the reason for the lack of connection, was my shortcomings as a partner. I wasn't fulfilling her, meeting her "needs" or whatever. It's an impossible assignment. She's having an affair. You cannot compete with that. You cannot win this or improve the situation by being a better partner. Not while she is in the affair. She may not realize this and may genuinely believe the problem is your "disconnect" and so whatever happens with her is really not her fault right now because she has "needs" and you are meeting them -she is hurting because you are failing her and this guy is helping her while she suffers emotionally because you are not doing a very good job as husband. Believe that if you want (it is a load of horseshit in my opinion). There is still no way you can win this.

posts: 29   ·   registered: Oct. 28th, 2020
id 8669327
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Rufus ( New Member #75754) posted at 1:02 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

She also wanted me to read the 7 Languages of Love or something like that and maybe some other things and I tried and I read all those stupid books and tried to make the changes, tried to meet her "needs," to speak her "love language." What she found in these books were really just rationalizations for her to go headlong outside the marriage while blaming me. And by trying all these things I reinforced her delusional views.

posts: 29   ·   registered: Oct. 28th, 2020
id 8669329
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Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 1:07 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

Great letter to your dad. You’re a good guy. But it also shines light on what you are missing.

She won’t be intimate with you physically or even emotionally because she feels it would be cheating on the other man. He’s the one in her heart right now.

No matter what you do or try to change it will have little to really no effect while she cares for this other msn note than you.

I have female friends. I talk to them a couple times a week. Maybe have lunch with them in groups once a month or so. My wife is my love and my best friend. I WANT to spend the most tine with her. Not any of my other friends. I love spending time with her. It fills my heart and does the same for her too.

Your wife is filling that spot with the other man. Until she’s able to stop and realize the other man is actually injuring you, the man who’s supposedly the love of her life, and starts hating him for it, she will continue down this path away from you.

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do but simply state your boundaries and needs and then move on. You can’t make her feel that. You can’t make her start seeing what is truly happening. You can’t make her stop seeing him and remove him from her heart.

Only she can do that.

You are trying to push on a string. I’m urging you to stop. Fight for your marriage by stating exactly what you need to stay in it.

Sure it’s good to have your own interests and meet new friends. But w her having someone who is truly “more than friends” you’ll never be at peace in your relationship.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3167   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8669330
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guvensiz ( Member #75858) posted at 1:17 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

She seemed unphased. She seemed offended that I would even think that something inappropriate was going on.

She said that other coworkers have asked her if "anything is going on" between her and Mark.

Isn't it interesting that you're not the only one who thinks this way?

Besides, you've never seen her with Mark, but they see them together and their impression is that there is more between them. So you are not paranoiac.

Your conversation sounded hollow to me, or rather her reactions. You have not found answers to the main problems. What does it matter how many times she went to the soccer game or weddings with him or how many times she stayed up late in his house? The question is why a married woman needs to do these. The answer to these cannot be a little "we're just friends". Does she do this with all her friends? Is she that worried about them too?

Your question there is very appropriate; "well why can't I be that?" And her answer has nothing to do with the topic. This issue can't be resolved mechanically; you give her a list of things you want her to do and she does it.

She avoids talking about the real problems. If she's not really in love with this guy, she should be able to explain what kind of need he is fulfilling that you can't do, what she has to share so much that the hours at work are not enough, she needs extra time until late.

Let's be optimistic and say she wasn't aware of your feelings. Now she knows and does nothing, she just asks you. Worse, she doesn't feel anything. If you see a child in the middle of the road and a car coming towards him, you don't ask him what he wants you to do, you feel and know what you have to do. Does she think she can do anything as long as she's not told not to? What will she say; "but you didn't say you didn't want me to have sex with him"? As a grown married woman, can't she distinguish the appropriate from the inappropriate?

I told her that if He knows about our marriage issues, then it makes it even more suspicious that he continues to hang around. It's like he's just waiting for the off-chance we do breakup so he can have her with "no strings".

You can be sure she told him everything and she hear from him what she wants to hear. Marriage complaints is the leading method of starting an A. And it's enough for the AP to stand there and say once in a while, "I understand you, you're right." Btw, it would be too optimistic to think that he is "waiting".

I feel so down on myself that I feel this way. That I feel so stuck. That I've let myself get to this position. I can't stop thinking where I screwed up along the way, what's wrong with me, what can I change, how can I change, why is this happening....I am so tired of all of this.

These feelings are normal. You've done nothing wrong, both you and her may have a share in the problems in the marriage, but the A is %100 on her. There's nothing you can do about her feelings for Mark. But you may not allow yourself to endure with all this.

Now you ask us "what do you want me to do". A lot of good advice has been given to you here, read them all again and actually, you know what you should to do, you just need some courage.

After this conversation, your wife will be more careful about hiding. If not done already probably she will delete records on electronic devices and on the phone. But cheaters always leave traces, they cannot act carefully. You can get very good advice on these issues here as well.

Good luck.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 7:47 AM, June 24th (Thursday)]

posts: 478   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8669333
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Freeme ( Member #31946) posted at 1:29 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

I have to agree with other posters. She's not going to admit to feeling, or anything else with OM because it would mean she did something wrong and would have to choose between you. If she denies everything and pulls the just friends card and "forces" you to play the "controlling" (What do you want me to do about it?) card. She can blame the break-up and everything else on you.

I feel so down on myself that I feel this way. That I feel so stuck. That I've let myself get to this position. I can't stop thinking where I screwed up along the way, what's wrong with me, what can I change, how can I change, why is this happening....I am so tired of all of this.

I'm your husband! I know things are rocky and weird with us right now - but I'm trying to work on things and I can't help but feel there's stuff you're not telling me.

The reason things are rocky is that shes having an affair and she doesn't want to stop it. She can invest in her marriage when she's having an affair.

Ok - you don't feel comfortable taking her phone and looking at it. Can you pull up the phone bill and show her the ratio of calls/texts to her husband and calls/texts to OM? Can you ask to see her phone infront of her? Tell her that after her two late nights you've lost a lot of trust for her. That she could help build that back by giving you her phone right now. How she reacts could give you a clue if she hasn't already deleted everything.

Right now you are doing the pick-me dance. That's one thing that never works. It makes you seem like a pushover. You can't save the marriage alone. You can't save the marriage with a WW that is still in the affair.

posts: 2802   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2011   ·   location: Washington DC
id 8669336
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grubs ( Member #77165) posted at 3:06 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

She talked about how emotionally distant and disconnected we have become.


No one is the villain in their own story. It's pretty common for WS to have these discussions after their affair has begun. It's part of the reframing they do to justify their betrayal. It puts the blame off of them and onto the person they are betraying, justifying that.

She also talked about How we have stopped having sex (something I've brought up to her a few times before, as my sexual attraction to her is still so strong). she doesn't want to be in a sex-less marriage (and neither do I), but doesn't see it changing for her anytime soon. She said that on some level she's felt like we might not have ever had a connection (emotionally or sexually). She said that lately it’s felt like I’m less of a partner and more of a best friend, and that she thinks it’s because of the lack of physical connection we have had.


See above. More justifications. The added problem is sex with you would betray Mark. You're not her best friend BTW, That's mark as stated in her own words.

My wife seems to refuse to believe that she's crossing lines. She refused to acknowledge that maybe what she's doing is wrong or actually hurtful. "He's like my best friend right now".


All of her actions and words just scream a physical affair. She's telling you that she doesn't want to be married to you. Listen to her. Mark is more important to her than what you have together. The only thing keeping her in your house is his lack of ability of supporting her in comparison to you and what others would think if she was the one that filed. Keeping you in limbo allows her to have her cake and eat it too. As you have been living, this only hurts you. You're not going to talk her back to you. Or nice her back. She has such little concern for you that she's willing to use you because it is convenient no matter how much it causes your pain and anguish. If she had any love left for you she would have ripped the bandaid off and moved out. Do yourself the favor and just file. Tell her that since her relationship with Mark is more important than your marriage, you have no choice but to end it. This will not get better without her deciding to be in the marriage. Right now, she's single and you're just her roommate. Take that away. Talk to a lawyer. Figure out what D looks like for you. Get her out of your life so you can start healing. Any other path will destroy you slowly.

posts: 740   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2021
id 8669354
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 CheesecakeBaker (original poster Member #78991) posted at 3:10 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

After this conversation, your wife will be more careful about hiding. If not done already probably she will delete records on electronic devices and on the phone. But cheaters always leave traces, they cannot act carefully. You can get very good advice on these issues here as well.

I am interested in hearing additional advice on this. If she proceeds to "be more careful" - what traces and signs should I look for and/or document?

posts: 103   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2021
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beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 3:24 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

Hire a PI, install VAR, if you have access to your mobile data if it’s on family plan…

posts: 376   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
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Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 3:36 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

Get a voice activated recorder. Test it yourself. Velcro it under a car seat and see what they are discussing.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3167   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8669363
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Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 3:39 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

If she has an iPhone, and you know her appleID and password, get an old phone and set it up the same w her password. You’ll have to make sure you get her phone and remove any alerts that a new phone has been set up w her ID.

Or set up fb messenger on your phone or laptop with her fb ID and psw to see her messages as she receives and sends them.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3167   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8669365
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KingofNothing ( Member #71775) posted at 3:42 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

Lets start with the obvious. Can you open your wife's phone and look at her texts? How about reading her texting strings with Mark?

Rex Nihilo, the King of Nothing
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“If you’re going through hell, keep going. Just please stop screaming, it’s not good for morale.”
— Winston Churchill

BS 3 DDays/Attempted R, it failed. In a better place

posts: 769   ·   registered: Oct. 7th, 2019   ·   location: East Coast USA
id 8669367
Topic is Sleeping.
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