SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

IMO you shouldn't have to spy on her for further proof. She should be doing back flips to convince you she's not cheating.

Inform her that you're scheduling a visit with a divorce attorney, separating your bank accounts, and changing the beneficiary on your life insurance.

If she wants to stay married and if she's not cheating, she should (at a minimum) take the iniative and voluntarily show you the texts as proof they're just friends.

After this conversation, your wife will be more careful about hiding. If not done already probably she will delete records on electronic devices and on the phone. But cheaters always leave traces, they cannot act carefully. You can get very good advice on these issues here as well.

I am interested in hearing additional advice on this. If she proceeds to "be more careful" - what traces and signs should I look for and/or document

?

I really don't think you get what is happening here, or maybe you just don't want to accept it, which is understandable. You don't really need more proof of whether she has an inappropriate relationship with the OM. It may well be that's it's physical as well, but that's not really the important part.

The important part is that when you told her your concerns, when you pointed out her shady behavior, when you pointed out that she seemed to be more interested in spending time with him than spending time with you or working on your marriage, she chose him. She didn't say she would work with you to make things better. She didn't say she will do whatever it takes to make your marriage better. She didn't express concern for you or your feelings at all.

That's because she's in a relationship with another man (or wants to be) and right now, you are in the way of that. Eventually she'll get tired of you being in the way and just move the other relationship forward regardless. The only question is whether it will be while you are still married or after. That really shouldn't be a concern to you. After all, if she doesn't want to be with you (and she gives no sign that she does want to be with you) then you might as well let her go. It will be painful, but at least you will be free to find someone who cares.

You are 28 (so young!!!!!), have a career & you are a loyal partner. You have been married a short time. I am sorry and I don't mean to diminish your very real pain, but I think you should divorce her. It shouldn't be this way newly married & being so young.

You should be having fun with your wife. Those "DATES" she goes on with Mark? Should be fun dates with her husband. Your sex life should be active and fun.

You may not want to admit it, but you know what is going on. You know that she is cheating on you and has been cheating on you for a while.

If you actually want to stay with this woman, and to be honest, I can’t see why you would want to stay with someone so uncaring towards you as her, you need to give her a reality check.

File and have her served at work!!!

You can always stop the process down the road if you want, but right now I think it might be the ONLY thing that brings her back from LaLaLand where she is right now

I know this is painful, but is this the life you actually want?

Only YOU can make things change.

Good luck.

Get strong

Start some individual counseling

And respect yourself enough to do what you must.

She seemed unphased. She seemed offended that I would even think that something inappropriate was going on. She denied that they have been physical together. She said "I've only been out till 2am with him twice". Yeah, well that's two too many times for me, I said.

Absent some extenuating circumstance (like an emergency or against her will) a married woman alone at another man's house until 2 am one time is crossing every single marital boundary.

Let me tell you a story: I "soft" confronted my WW like you just did with records of her constant, all day, every day, texting and phone calls with her AP. Really what happened was I hacked into her account and printed out the records. When she learned I'd gotten into her account, she angrily confronted me about snooping on her. I then asked her to explain the hundreds of texts and phone calls.

She then broke down in tears, told me I was a jealous, unreasonable and paranoid husband who was trying to ruin the one male friendship she's had as an adult. She then flipped the script, convinced me I had falsely accused her and then invoked an in-home separation from me. I was convinced for a few weeks that I had in fact falsely accused her, that I had a mental problem of paranoia, that I might need professional help, and that we were heading for divorce because of my actions.

Does that help you with some perspective, CheesecakeBaker?

In fact, what was really going on was that my WW's affair with her AP was heating up, getting more and more physical, and then they had sex in our home.

I was knocked off center by her ability to convince me that I had falsely accused her.

The ONLY way I found out the truth was to secure VARs in her car and in our home.

It's likely your wife is gaslighting you here. The book "Not Just Friends" will demonstrate to you how common your situation is.

Your WW has crossed boundaries, has spent more time with her "friend" and coworker than with you, and has spent time alone with him at his house in the wee hours of the night.

This has been going on since March. So at least three months. The chances that this is an emotional affair at the very least are all but certain -- and that's why your gut instinct led you to come to this website, set up an account and post. Your gut is firing like crazy.

Now if it's been going on three months, the chances that it is confined to "just an EA" are really low. The chances of physical are really high.

Just some perspective for you.

"I've only been out till 2am with him twice"

The fact that this came out of her mouth is almost more revealing than anything else. This is gobsmacking.

It isn't what faithful wives say.

The important part is that when you told her your concerns, when you pointed out her shady behavior, when you pointed out that she seemed to be more interested in spending time with him than spending time with you or working on your marriage, she chose him. She didn't say she would work with you to make things better. She didn't say she will do whatever it takes to make your marriage better. She didn't express concern for you or your feelings at all.

That's because she's in a relationship with another man (or wants to be) and right now, you are in the way of that. Eventually she'll get tired of you being in the way and just move the other relationship forward regardless.

This is exactly what is going on.

And let me tell you something else: Your wife is probably convinced this man is her "soulmate" or some other level of horseshit. She's convinced herself they belong together, that your marriage was a mistake and that you're standing in the way of her happiness.

Very common.

You can read story after story about wayward wives who convinced themselves of a fantasy of running off into the sunset with the other man.

This coworker doesn't want her fulltime. He's enjoying the side piece benefits. Her fantasy will come crashing down.

The question is whether too much damage has already been done to your marriage before that happens.

Do yourself a favor and get VARs at Bestbuy today, the $50-60 SONY version, not cheap ones. Get at least two: One for her car and one for where she puts on makeup in the morning. Go to Wal Mart and buy some strips of industrial strength velcro. Use black tape to cover the displays to prevent inadvertent detection. Get some cheap headphones, clip them off and then put the clipped off jacks into the headphone slot of the VAR. Then secure them in the car and in the house. You'll know best where. They pick up remarkably well, but don't put them too close to the car floor or you'll get lots of road noise.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:07 AM, June 24th (Thursday)]

Dear Cheesecake Baker,

I have been lurking here for a bit. I am posting now because in you I find a kindred spirit. I, too, had a partner much like yours. I know for myself, and I think for you, that what lies at the bottom of our suffering is confusion, denial and dread.

This is all the result of your belief that the person you loved, the person you married could never do what the woman you are married to now is doing to you. Never. She'd never lie to your face or cheat on you. This was true for me during my betrayal. Is it possibly true for you?

I have a foolproof test, a single statement that will prove to you that the person you are now dealing with is not, and maybe never was, the love of your life. First, before you meet with your wife I want you to make the statement to yourself and imagine how the woman you married would respond.

Then, when you are next alone with your wife simply say, "Darling, I know this is going to sound ridiculous but there is something you are doing that is causing me agony." Now, you might wish to pause here and hope that she is at least curious. If she does not ask you a question, tell her that your agony is the result of the fears you have regarding your relationship with "Mark".

I would definitely stop here and wait. Remember, you've already made the same statement to yourself and predicted what the person you married would say. Wait.

If she comes apart and asks what she can do to help, you still have a chance that she is the lady you married. However, if she says, as she seems to say a lot, "Well, what do you want me to do about it?" You say, "I know this is silly, but at least for now, let me come along. I won't bother you. I'll just sit in the corner and read a book. I don't even mind if everyone including you and Mark tease me about it. That would OK with me."

What would the person you truly love say? I bet she'd think you were insane but at least consider you coming along if it would make you feel better. If, on the other hand, your wife dismisses your request and refuses, you have your proof. The person you have in front of you is not your sweetie. This person is utterly unconcerned with your pain. All of it has been lies. She does not love you. Run.

The fact that your wife won't even hug you says everything. She is so disrespectful to you and the marriage. Even her colleagues suspect she is screwing around on you. But whether she is screwing this guy or not is almost irrelevant at this point. She has checked out of the marriage. That is clear from your posts. It is good that you are getting out there and trying to meet new people. You will need friends and family to lean on for support for what is yet to come. Unless there is some sort of a miraculous change in your wife's behavior your marriage is toast.

You are young and your marriage is very short. There are plenty of other women out there. Do not be a punching bag. Respect yourself. Demand respect from your partner. Your wife has no respect for you. She is crapping all over you. Tell her that you intend to file for divorce unless she gives you a damn good reason not to do so. She won't so prepare to file and move on.

I have been in your shoes and I know how hard it is to take the steps that need to be taken. But eventually, you will wonder why it took so long for you to do what was obvious for quite some time. Be gentle with yourself. Don't listen to her nonsense. Find a therapist versed in infidelity. Above all, be true to yourself and never allow anyone to disrespect you the way your wife has done.

I have been lurking here for a bit. I am posting now because in you I find a kindred spirit. I, too, had a partner much like yours. I know for myself, and I think for you, that what lies at the bottom of our suffering is confusion, denial and dread.

This is all the result of your belief that the person you loved, the person you married could never do what the woman you are married to now is doing to you. Never. She'd never lie to your face or cheat on you. This was true for me during my betrayal. Is it possibly true for you?

This is extremely true for me.

I feel so bad that I feel this way. I feel so weak and scared and down-trodden. I feel like I don't want to go on anymore. I HATE that I'm scared of the woman that I married - hate that I feel like I can't bring this up to her in a more assertive way, hate that I feel like there's hope, hate that I feel like every time I have had a conversation with her over the past three months it has been at my insistence and has been about my feelings and emotions and why I'm hurting and she just sits there and gets upset and acts like it's all my problem and that she needs space and time. I hate that she tells me she loves me, but chooses to take actions that hurt me so deeply. All it does is give me hope and make me fall even deeper into fear, heartache, and sadness.

All it does is give me hope and make me fall even deeper into fear, heartache, and sadness.

Pull yourself out of this spiral.

Go to Bestbuy today and get the VARs.

Set up an appt with a divorce atty

Start the 180 now.

Start lifting now (I know this one seems inconsequential, but just do it. It will boost your testosterone, start earning you muscle mass, boost your self confidence and make you sleep better - again I recommend the "Stoppani Shortcut to Size" protocol).

Read the books we've recommended.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:45 AM, June 24th (Thursday)]

If you aren't keen on looking at her texts/messages (and that is understandable) I would suggest hiring a PI - they can see what's happening at these lunches/nights out when you can't can and are experienced in getting the evidence properly.

I would say though, that I don't think you need evidence of an affair, its not up to you to prove to her what she is doing - she knows inside what she is doing is wrong - no matter what she says. Putting that time and energy into another man isn't what a good partner should be doing and she is being neglectful and causing the issues (lack of intimacy, not working with you to address problems) its not acceptable to find that comfort in another guy.

I will say that I was like you, I do not find it easy at all to make friends and my ex was a bit of a social butterfly. What scared me most about leaving him was that I would be lonely and have nobody.

Let me tell you that life can still be good on your own, so don't fear that. I enjoy living on my own now and I realised that its much worse to be in a relationship where you are constantly in fear of it ending, of being betrayed, of feeling that your partner is being untrustworthy and wondering all the time what they are doing. The peace in your mind that you get when you leave and that stops is such a release, there was nothing like it.

Yeah I do sometimes get lonely but I have joined clubs and have started slowly getting to know people, connected more with family and the one or two people I am friends with. You can do it and don't think being alone is the worst outcome from this, living with the fear is really the worst outcome.

You sound like a very caring nice guy. But now is the time to shed some of that and become your own caretaker. You must get angry. You deserve to be angry. You must be compassionate with yourself. You deserve compassion. You are intelligent and have a bright future. You have so much worth. Do not let your wife drag you down anymore. You need a mentor that can help you guide you through this mess. Your therapist seems useless. Find a family member or close friend who can help you do what needs to be done. DO NOT hate yourself. Your wife is the broken one. She has gone outside the marriage. She is a liar and a thief. She is having a good time while you wallow in despair. I call bullshit on this whole mess. There will be much brighter days, and it is time for you to head in a direction to make it happen sooner rather than later.

What is holding you back? Imaginary chains that you have constructed out of fear. I did the same thing. It is time to man up and face your fears. They aren't going away. They will continue to get stronger until they strangle you if you don't do what has to be done. Let go of your marriage. It's gone and probably won't return. She won't even hug you. No physical intimacy. It's over, but you're not. Regroup, rebuild, get rid of her, and go find a worthy mate who is respectful and loving. Sorry, but she is a skank. Treat her like one.

[This message edited by src9043 at 11:09 AM, June 24th (Thursday)]

Agree with Thumos - pull yourself out of this cycle.

Do not beat yourself up for having a hard time with this. You are disoriented by the betrayal as many of us were/are. Just because you didn't kick her out immediately doesn't mean you can't do what you need to do now. Take steps to move away from her.

And as another poster mentioned - her reaction is awful.

Put yourself in her shoes and pretend that nothing was going on. How would you respond to your hurting, upset wife? Her reaction is telling you so much.

What was the conversation about these "dates" she went on with him? I want you to understand that going to a sporting event with a man other than your husband is STRANGE. Married women don't do this. You are not insecure, paranoid, controlling. You are being cheated on and your insides are eating you up because they are SCREAMING at you - DANGER DANGER. Protect yourself. Listen to your gut. Listen to that voice in your head that is trying to get your attention.

You are going to be ok. You need to deal with this.

Editing to add this - I am not a cheater. So if my partner comes to me distraught about my "friendship" with another man, I am going to address that. I am going to change the relationship with this man. No more hanging out outside of the office. I am going to skip happy hours. I am going to take seriously my husband's feelings. And it isn't a big deal because God forbid I screw up the most important relationship in my life for some work friend. Do you see the difference??

[This message edited by stubbornft at 11:02 AM, June 24th (Thursday)]

This is extremely true for me.

I feel so bad that I feel this way. I feel so weak and scared and down-trodden. I feel like I don't want to go on anymore. I HATE that I'm scared of the woman that I married - hate that I feel like I can't bring this up to her in a more assertive way, hate that I feel like there's hope, hate that I feel like every time I have had a conversation with her over the past three months it has been at my insistence and has been about my feelings and emotions and why I'm hurting and she just sits there and gets upset and acts like it's all my problem and that she needs space and time. I hate that she tells me she loves me, but chooses to take actions that hurt me so deeply. All it does is give me hope and make me fall even deeper into fear, heartache, and sadness.

I think at this point you need to stop listening to what she is saying because you know that her actions aren't acceptable to you yet she doesn't care about your feelings and goes on trying to justify them.

I would go and speak to a lawyer, even just for information at this stage, and look at what divorce looks like and get used to the idea. Start working on your exit, to be prepared for a separation because like it or not, this is the point where you need to be considering these things as a possibility. It may not be your choice as she may decide to leave you for him, so be prepared for the worst, in the hope that the worst can be averted.

Then I'd speak to her and let her know that's what you are thinking. As others have said, you have to be ready to lose the relationship for her to understand that its at serious risk because of her actions.

Those that know hurt for you and hate to read your "reports" since it has happened too many time to too many of us.

Your wife is deep in the affair FOG or limerence or whatever you want to call it. You have only ONE option and that is to begin the divorce. She will either snap out of it or she will not.

This is and will continue to be a brutal life lesson for you but the path to happiness is to take control of your life back from her.

I hate that she tells me she loves me, but chooses to take actions that hurt me so deeply.

Actions. Not words. Words are easy. Follow the actions they give you a better insight to what you are dealing with. Her disrespect is telling. What you have written is enough to tell you that she doesn't deserve you and you certainly do not deserve what she is doing to you. Please get yourself out of this before it destroys you. If you really want confirmation, you can get Voice activated recorders that look like a pen or usb drive. Stick one in her purse or work bag or where she talks on the phone. You'll find proof soon enough.

I hate that she tells me she loves me, but chooses to take actions that hurt me so deeply. All it does is give me hope and make me fall even deeper into fear, heartache, and sadness.

Until you realize she’s a liar and her words don’t mean squat you’ll stay where you are.

Right now you are keeping yourself in this. No one else has that power.

CheesecakeBaker, you don't need to ascertain beyond a reasonable doubt, that your wife is having an affair with "Mark". You already have more than enough to end the marriage. Your wife has emotionally abandoned you. Basically, you are in this shame of a marriage by yourself.

Talking to your WW (wandering wife) has proven to be useless. She is gaslighting you. And she will keep on gaslighting you. This is actually very common. This surely is very difficult to read, but the core of it is that she feels that you are in her way of happiness, unlike "Mark" who walks on water and can do no wrong. So she makes up all these things you are supposedly "wrong" about, such as "too needy" or "doesn't have enough of his own friends". *roll eyes*

You're being too nice and too passive, brother. This bleeding won't stop until you take strong decisive action to get yourself out of this situation. Moreover it will not shake your WW out of her nonsense! The only thing you can do at this point is move forward with the divorce process unilaterally.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:12 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

She told me, however, that she feels like she is smothered and overwhelmed and needs space--which I've tried to respect and give to her. Through all of this, though, she's indicated that she does want to work on improving things with me and getting to a place where we can both be happy. So I've had hope that if I keep trying and putting in effort, things will move toward a better place.

so sorry you are here.

As soon as I read that paragraph I thought, "she is having an affair and not an emotional one." You need to listen to the audio book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Glover. Listening is faster and time is your enemy. You can get it on Audible or Scribd. First month is free. Listen to it at least 3 times and up the speed for relistening. Then listen to the "Dead Bedroom Fix" by DSO.

IMO I think it is too late to save this marriage, and I personally would like for every marriage to be saved - healthily, that is. But it is not too late to save you, your self respect and dignity. These 2 authors will explain to you why you are so passive and can't seem to shake loose of your passivity. You must get out of infidelity. This will destroy you. Listen and follow the advice you get here. These folks will help you through this. Divorce or Reconcile, you have a long hard road ahead so you better be prepared. You did not cause this. You did not deserve this.

Strength brother.

She needs her space to date Mark freely.

I say give her all the space she wants as a single woman. Mark will either dump her because he only wanted a part time girl friend or they will become a couple for awhile until she finds another dude from work to hang out with until 2am...or they will live happily ever after. No one knows.

But she is pretty much done with you.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 1:57 AM, June 25th (Friday)]