SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Curious Observer is correct. Take actions, stop talking. She is no longer loyal to you, those loyalties have changed to the douchebag. She's being elusive because she is keeping the 'dream' alive at the least ,and your words will only bring about more gaslighting. Time for actions, NOT time for telegraphing your moves.

If she is to come back, she will have to take the actions neccessary, not just speak empty words. She knows exactly what you are saying, she's just stalling. Stop waffling, there is no day like today to get your dignity back. Either she's on your side on your timeline, or she's should be gone.

CCB,

You're a lawyer yourself, correct? Then I believe you have an idea how this works.

Based from your other post, you claim she rarely uses her phone and maybe they're not using her car to go places. But at least try to install a VAR on her car, you never know, they might use it one time or another then you can find out something. At least have some extra monitoring layer.
PI would be your best bet if you want to out them. PI would have lots of resources in their hand to track their steps. Where they're going to, what they're doing and what not.

I know this is hard and you're already exhausted but I repeat from my other post to you.
Divorce will be hard.
Reconciliation will be hard.
Monitoring her will be hard.

Every step you take on from here will be hard. There's no easy way whichever step you take.

If you're going through R then will you be okay with her thinking about what she has done for the past 3 months or so? Would you trust her for anything? No. You won't. There's always that something at the back of your mind that she might be screwing somebody else let alone Mark.

If you're going through R then you'll have these constant 'false memories' or 'images' of her and Mark doing it instead of the image of you and her. These triggers will definitely affect your mental health whether you like it or not.

If you go through D, then better practice being alone now. See for yourself if you're okay with her being out of your life. Try at least once a week to have your alone time. Go to places, see new people. Since you were a social butterfly before, why not try to practice it now - again. Since as far as I can see, you've been outed from her life, outed from her group, outed from everybody.

Also initiate full 180 from now on. Since it's hurting you when you try to communicate with her, better stop talking to her - it won't generate any result anyway. You will only be gaslighted. You will be lied on to. And last, you won't believe every word she says coz whatever comes out of her mouth now is a lie until proven otherwise.

I know you love the woman but that's not the girl you married. The girl you married is non-existent. The girl is now a fantasy. You only created that persona from her image but that is not her.

All the best!

This is going to be very hard, there may never be anything harder for you to do. But it’s like getting some horrible disease. You might feel like shut, but at the end of the day you need to lace up your big boy boots and do a few simple actions to treat the disease.

“I’m not OK with how things are going and I’m looking at ending our relationship unless things change”. Then LEAVE. Not everything needs to be a conversation. The ball is in her court and her actions will be your answer.

She even started DEFENDING HIM when I started calling bullshit on him "not wanting to be more than friends with her." "this isn't about him," she said. Well, it IS - because he is affecting our marriage.

This is because she is living in a fantasy and has shifted her loyalties over to him. It may also account for the dead bedroom you are experiencing. It is not uncommon for wayward wives to shift their entire loyalty, emotionally and physically, to the AP. They feel having sex with their faithful husbands is a form of "betrayal" of their new, shiny partner.

but it feels like I'm standing at the deep end of a black pool and I'm too terrified to dive in and I keep wanting to walk around to the other side and dip my toes in

I don't know if you've been in cold water before. If you enter slowly, you will shudder at every step. The best way is to dive right in.

I don't know if I have it in me to have ANOTHER conversation with her, even if it is one where I try really hard to be strong and assertive and say "Here are the boundaries that you cross; it's not okay with me; I don't want to be a part of this marriage anymore if that is what you are wanting to do and how you are going to treat me."

The emotional conversation that would follow seems, right now, like it would break me.

I'm not talking about a conversation. Just tell her your situation and that you're not going to put up with it anymore and start taking concrete steps to get rid of it (all you mentioned above are very good actually), and end by stating that you're tired of listening to her bullshit and don't believe her. After that, walk away. You can sleep in another room, try to spend your time outside, etc.

Don't engage with her later on as well, even if she makes an attempt in the same way. Show that you're full. Only react if her behavior changes in a positive way.

End your pain and start to heal. None of this can be done until you push this thing to where it needs to go. I know how hard this is for you. I had difficulty confronting my ex-WW for the last time and I couldn't stand her at that point.

You are her husband and you can not be treated disrespectfully. Demand the truth. Do not let her off the hook. Do not let her deflect. Stay focused on her and Mark. Ask a million questions, then ask more. Tell her she must answer them. Ask follow-up questions. You're a lawyer. Treat her as if you are taking her deposition. Your marriage is on fire. Put out the fire and then rebuild or move on so you can heal.

You must also get her to fess up as to why she doesn't want to even touch you. I don't know is not an answer. Stay on her until she cracks. Ask follow-ups on this question. It will hold the key to everything. Do not relent until you get an answer that makes sense. It will hurt, but you need the truth.

[This message edited by src9043 at 4:21 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

She seems so against doing anything physical with me at all - even hugging! I WANT to talk to her and figure this stuff out but she doesn’t ever respond with coherent answers and usually just sits there emotionless while I tell her how I am feeling. She says she doesn’t know why she feels like this or what the solution could be.

I don't want to add to your jitters, and this has already been pointed out, but it's worth repeating: This is what wayward wives do. She's firing on all cylinders here, frankly. She has flicked a switch of physical attraction to the "off" position for you.

She's giving you the oft-described "space alien" effect, the cold stare like no one is home, the sullen lack of emotion.

This is a woman who has checked out.

So here's something you'll learn more as you read: You can't nice her back. And you sure as hell can't negotiate attraction. This is doubly true for women. Women do not respect weakness. Treat yourself as a doormat, and a doormat you shall be.

Get strong, 180 her, start living your own life.

She may continue to check out, which means she was never marriage material in the first place. Plenty of betrayed husbands can tell stories about wayward wives who told their faithful husbands they were "boring" and they wanted to go off to live an exciting chasing-for-Mr. Goodbar high life. Then these women simply packed their bags and left.

It's almost a cliche now how often these same women come back a year or two later begging for another chance, even after divorce.

On the other hand, she may start picking up on this strength right now, and respond.

If that happens you stay the course, get the truth, shut it down and then decide. If she's had an affair of ANY kind, I would highly recommend a minimum 30-day separation period in which you decide if you even want her back.

[This message edited by Thumos at 3:58 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

If I can provide some help CCB:

The 180 is now your best approach to your marriage. You have done everything possible - she’s protecting the guy she’s cheating with, lying to you and showing you she’s not going to change a damn thing.

Others have given you the 180 strategy. One of you leaves the bedroom. You get your own bank account and pay your bills-not hers. Stop funding the affair.

If she’s home — you are not. You don’t have to say where you are going or when you will be home either.

It’s time to start separating yourself from the marriage.

You don’t need to respond to her texts. You don’t need to answer her calls.

This will irk her. She counts on you being her safety net and she also counts on you to do nothing and not upset her plan. So be prepared for her to possible become angry with you.

She thinks she is control of this situation and you.

Just be prepared for it.

CCB,
If you're still sitting on the fence.
I'll give you one example from a poster here. I won't tell his name since I don't have permission and he hasn't been online for a while.
He has a WW who had a secret affair. Despite the betrayal he is still deeply in love with his wife. He thought he can't live without his wife. But despite the deep affection towards his wife, he can't make love to her. Because the mental image of his wife and her AP is too strong, it affects his ability to make love with his wife. It affects his mental health. He still doesn't want his wife to be with somebody else.
Despite his deep emotions still lingering towards his wife, he chose D route. Some other factors were involved of course. One day he went out and he realized, there's a world out there. One day he was talking with a girl and he realized, the features that he thought were exclusively from his wife, he found with another girl. All the features that he thought all along was with his wife, they're not exclusive at all. He found it with other girls too.
There's still a world out there for you to discover. 28 years old is still young. You're well educated, has a bright future ahead of you and there's still plenty of fish to catch for you.
It doesn't mean that you have all the good qualities of a person, you won't be cheated on. Prime examples were Shania Twain, Orlando Bloom, Jennifer Aniston - these folks were way out of league for most people but still they got cheated on. In fact, Shania Twain's husband got a downgrade. I'm pretty sure if someone from the outside looking in, they won't think that you will also be cheated on. You have all the qualities of a good husband, again, well educated, well mannered, and good natured person.
Most of us here know your pain, we share your pain. We've been through similar pain you're encountering now. You share it with everyone here. That's why we're giving out some advise that you might use. You can choose whichever route you want. But act on it now. Prolonging the inevitable will cause you more pain. Whichever road you take from hereon out will be the most difficult road for you. That's true! We know! We've been there.
All the best!

[This message edited by beb252 at 2:14 AM, Friday, June 25th]

Sorry for what you are going through. One thing you need to keep in mind is you won’t lose her by because you are being to demanding. You will lose her by being to timid.

There is no reason for her to hang out with Mark. I love and adore women but except for the intimacy as a man I would hang out with another dude. If she wants a friend there’s billions of other ladies out there. She is screwing him and treating you like shit.

I and other people here are hurting with you because we’ve been there. Try and be strong and let her know it’s either him or you. No married woman should be out with a single guy.

Imagine if you were staying out until 2:00am a few nights with a buxom blonde named Heather. Do you think your wife would put up with that...especially after stopping having sex with your wife. No person would go along with that crap.

Get strong and put your foot down. Best of luck to you we are all pulling for you!

Cheesecake, this is so painful to read and I understand what you’re going through. Based on what you’ve described, its clear to me she is having a physical affair with Mark based on her cutting you off and the “in your face” 2AM rendevous. That said, you do have an option. Confront them both. Show up at their dates, call Mark and tell him to back off, out the affair to her family, friends and coworkers. If they want to play, make them pay.

At this point you have nothing to lose. This will either force her hand regarding Mark, or help you lift her fog. At the same time, it will send a warning shot that you’re not the doormat they think you are,

[This message edited by Caesar at 8:01 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

What small thing can I do, right now, to move me (inch-by-inch) closer to the endgame? I feel like if I am able to do that small, baby-step stuff, it'll help push me closer and move me forward to taking bigger leaps faster...but it feels like I'm standing at the deep end of a black pool and I'm too terrified to dive in...

That's totally normal. The smallest thing for you to do is change your thinking. First is to believe, accept and comprehend that your wife lies to you now. She's lying to you all the time. There is no reason anymore to ask her about her feelings about you, him, work, your marriage because she will lie to preserve the other life, the snug little cocoon she's living in now.

All those talks you had with her about things between you? That was fodder for her to cry to Mark about. She complains and frets about her awful marriage and knows Mark will play Knight in Shining Armor (KISA) and rescue her.

So don't bother. Do the 180. Smile a lot. Or don't smile, look preoccupied. Don't disagree or agree with her anymore. Detach. Forget the slippery non-answers she tries to placate you with. She has to talk like that to keep you off balance. I wouldn't bring Mark up whatsoever anymore. You already know everything you need to.

Change your thinking about her and you will start to feel better. At least believe that she is not on your side anymore. She is not your friend. Not loyal. Bad for you.

You can find a PI through work if you're at a law firm, (hope you don't use the same ones used by her firm) or if you have a friend in LE, many retired police officers become PIs after retirement.

You want proof. Solid proof so hire the PI, or put your foot down and start going out with her to those Happy Hours. Be on her like white on rice. Tell her it's because she said she felt the distance between you two and you are just the man to fix it.

You said after complaining about him

I could tell she was sad and really down and I ended up telling her that I want her to be happy

Make her effing miserable. Either go out with her or come up with events that you two absolutely must attend together. Leave her no time to go drinking with him. (I bet she'd start taking off during the day with him or she'd leave your bed in the middle of the night to go over to his place.) No more soccer games unless they get you a ticket too. What's wrong with Mark taking a girl and you four double dating at one of those soccer games? You just want to get to know her good buddy, Mark.

Get up in her business, nicely and helpfully. You are already a roadblock to her life with him, now start being something they really can complain about. What nights is she out with coworkers? Be there. Stop being a nice guy. She's counting on that.

That or get the PI. Is she really doing Happy Hours? I'm not sure.

A small step is seeing a divorce lawyer. Just make the appointment. Another small step is looking at your financials and seeing if you need to open a new account or two in your name only.

You have received some sterling advice already. I hope you are moved to take a step or two, so that you can, even reluctantly and haltingly, end this misery.

Cheesecake Baker I follow you here and on reddit, and it really seems to me, as I have expressed before, totally unworthy for your wife to act, you know, that she does not have sex with you because, in these moments she has A Mark,

On both sides they have given you infinity of advice,

like putting a VAR in her car, and in your house and even cameras,

I think that, to be able to help you, you should know what you want, yes, you want to get her back, if physical infidelity is a decisive value, if you want to be happy or if you like to be with her even if she fucks MARK,

It is important to know what you want to do, to be able to help yourself, you must clarify yourself, go out to be alone for a few days, it will do you very good, to be able to meditate, and be clear about what you want from your life, but you must be alone without seeing it for a few days.

Believe it or not, we are all with you, regardless of what you want to do. how important you feel good and can be happy

She's cheating, and you can't reason with a cheater.

At the moment I don't think it's good to discuss how you feel with her. She's manipulating you, and frankly is boldly playing games with your heart and your head. It would do you wonders to go cold and detach. Easier said than done, I know, because I've been in your shoes.

My whole world did a 180 when I got my sh#t together and said, "What you're doing is a violation of our marriage. You can have this innapropriate friendship or you can have a husband. If you continue to see this man, our marriage will end. It's your choice."

Whether it's filing for D or setting a firm boundary, she needs consequences. Formulate a plan and take decisive action. Find an emotional outlet for your pain, but when dealing with her you need to make stone cold declarations and then walk away.

I'd guess that you're afraid you're losing your wife. That's not the truth at all, and you need to flip that script in your mind. She is losing you through her own reckless actions, and detachment is one sure fire way to get that point across.

She says she needs space, has she said "I love you but I'm not in love with you" yet?

That usually comes next.

She says she needs space, has she said "I love you but I'm not in love with you" yet?

That usually comes next.

She says she needs space, has she said "I love you but I'm not in love with you" yet?

That usually comes next.

The whole reason you posted was...

If she is emotionally invested in someone else, I don’t think I want to continue being in a relationship with her.

From your recent talk with her and her reaction I think you have answered your own question. She is putting OM and their "friendship" over your pain. You have been very open about how this makes you feel and she has made it very clear that she values his "friendship" over your feelings. So, that is the answer to your question. You can't keep asking her in different ways and expect a different answer.

Now if that question has changed. If you now want to know if the relationship has gone physical or proof that they are more than friends. Then you need to read her text messages, see how often they are texting calling.

What you can't do is wallow in this limbo. You might think that not knowing the truth is better but it's not. You are bleeding out slowly. Each day you let her continue to hurt you makes reconcile that much harder. She likes having you as a husband and OM as her "friend" and isn't going to do anything to change that unless you make her. She isn't going to feel remorse or regret unless you show her proof that she's cheating.

I believe you have enough proof to move forward out of infedelity. If you believe that knowing they have had sex will help push you forward you need to look at her phone. You need to do something because this limbo is killing you slowly.

Sorry double post.

[This message edited by Freeme at 8:29 AM, June 25th (Friday)]

She says she needs space, has she said "I love you but I'm not in love with you" yet?

That usually comes next.

Oh. Yep. I heard that from her.