SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

We know that you are hurting. We know that you are scared. We know that you do NOT want to lose your marriage. We have all been there. And for many of us, amazingly, the marriage was salvaged. It is not over until it is over.

BUT, you have to come to grips that the marriage may end. Your wife could walk out tomorrow, and serve you with divorce papers, and there is nothing that you could do about it. Will she do that? I have no idea. But I know this--if anyone should be willing to leave this marriage right now, it should be you. Infidelity or not, would you want the next 20, 30, 40 years to be of this emotional distance and lack of respect to you....and the marriage? You deserve better, and you need to demand better. If she isn't willing to do this, then just expect what you have now....and it will continue to deteriorate.

Fear of one's partner leaving is an awful feeling. One of the worst. But do you know what is worse than this? The continued sharing of your wife with someone else. The continued hurtful actions being taken against you. THOSE are the worst. Don't fool yourself and think that it can not get worse--it can. You don't realize this yet, but you have the strength to get out of this. You have the strength to get angry at the way you are being treated. You have the strength to emotionally detach from her, to where this unescapable weight on your chest can be removed. You have far more strength than you believe, but you have to face your fears.

Remember--as terrible as this is, a continuation is only going to be worse. Don't be afraid to tell her what you need, and be willing to leave this behind if she is not willing to give it to you.....freely.

Hey top talent in this place have given you incredible advice. Look at it all and see what's the best of the low hanging fruit. And a lot of it is good.

Remember this: every relationship has a dealbraker. In your case out on dates with some other man after midnight is cause for dismissal of the W. What could come after that?

hate that I feel like I can't bring this up to her in a more assertive way

It's not because you couldn't explain it to her more assertively, but because she didn't care and it didn't suit her to understand. Believe me, it wouldn't work if you were Shakespeare. That's what we mean when we say there's nothing you can do about her feelings for Mark. She is deaf and blind to you now. You are now a barrier between her and her love, her soulmate. She can't hear your words, can't see your suffer. Don't confuse her with the woman you married. I know it hurts, everyone here has been there. While the person you see as your everything doesn't mind it, people thousands miles away feel this pain with you. We are also aware of how difficult it is to implement our recommendations in your situation. Most of us may not have been able to do them, perhaps we did too late. However, we insist that you do not make the same mistakes, at least try not to. Because the opposite has proven to be useless, a thousand times over.

We can't guarantee you how to get her back, because maybe that's impossible now. But we can say how to get out of this situation. Only then can you come to a sound decision. If there will be a remorseful wife who still does not want to lose you, then you will decide whether to stay in marriage or not after all you learn all the truth.

I hate that she tells me she loves me, but chooses to take actions that hurt me so deeply. All it does is give me hope and make me fall even deeper into fear, heartache, and sadness.

Because her actions belie her words and yes, you are right, it's the actions that count, not the words.

In fact, there is nothing in her words that will give you hope. That deadpan "I love you" is all she can do. Because she doesn't feel like doing anything for you, and she can't admit the truth so she doesn't become the bad guy. She doesn't lie to protect you or your marriage, probably the only thing she's worried about right now is getting out of this marriage without damaging her own reputation.

At this stage, you should tell her what you're going to do, not what you want her to do. You can't control her, but you can go your own road. What's on that road? Not to put up with her disrespect and a loveless marriage any longer. What's the point of staying in a marriage like this? You have to find the strength to let go of it. It's gone already whether you accept it or not.

Don't bluff her. Don't hold back from doing the things you said you would do. Women find strong and determined people attractive. That's why we insist you not to look weak and needy. You think you can appeal to and influence her feelings this way, but you're only making her getting bored and become more and more distant from you. We can't know if there is a possibility that her love for you will be revived, but if there is, you should know that this is the only solution. If there isn't, that's the road you have to walk anyway.

You should start this walk by detaching yourself from her and filing for divorce. If you see her making an effort during this time, you show that you are paying attention to these efforts, but you keep walking. However, you can stop at the point where you find her efforts enough, if it is not enough, you continue without her.

Pull yourself out of this spiral.

Go to Bestbuy today and get the VARs.

Set up an appt with a divorce atty

Start the 180 now.

Start lifting now (I know this one seems inconsequential, but just do it. It will boost your testosterone, start earning you muscle mass, boost your self confidence and make you sleep better - again I recommend the "Stoppani Shortcut to Size" protocol).

Read the books we've recommended.

I am reading the books, and enjoying the insight. I currently DO lift and need to try and focus more on that to take my mind off all of that. It's been really hard to eat lately because of everything...and that's been impacting my lifting routine.

I have actually avoided contact with her so far today. Been extremely busy with work, too. I have looked up VARs...my issue is like...I know she rarely makes phone calls, let alone to Mark (I've looked at the Verizon bill). She mainly texts him. I am not certain how often they are actually alone in her car together either.

If you aren't keen on looking at her texts/messages (and that is understandable) I would suggest hiring a PI - they can see what's happening at these lunches/nights out when you can't can and are experienced in getting the evidence properly.

Do you - or anyone else - have suggestions on how to... actually go about finding/hiring a PI? I am considering it now.

I will say that I was like you, I do not find it easy at all to make friends and my ex was a bit of a social butterfly. What scared me most about leaving him was that I would be lonely and have nobody.

this is what is kind of grating on me lately...she never really was a "social butterfly"; it used to be me. Now, I vastly prefer my alone time and she's not necessarily "social" - she just prefers her time with Mark.

Let me tell you that life can still be good on your own, so don't fear that. I enjoy living on my own now and I realised that its much worse to be in a relationship where you are constantly in fear of it ending, of being betrayed, of feeling that your partner is being untrustworthy and wondering all the time what they are doing. The peace in your mind that you get when you leave and that stops is such a release, there was nothing like it.

This is super comforting. Every day I wake up with a pit in my stomach, tired as all hell from tossing and turning all night, and jittery from anxiety. I want this weight off of me.

What was the conversation about these "dates" she went on with him? I want you to understand that going to a sporting event with a man other than your husband is STRANGE. Married women don't do this. You are not insecure, paranoid, controlling. You are being cheated on and your insides are eating you up because they are SCREAMING at you - DANGER DANGER. Protect yourself. Listen to your gut. Listen to that voice in your head that is trying to get your attention.

I know this isn't normal for a married woman. I felt awful after our conversation because she seemed so...indifferent? She just played off the fact that she went to soccer games with him, or out to dinner, or drinks, or "smoked weed and drank and watched movies" at his house as "playful fun". I know it's not. It can't be.

And her reaction? So coldly proclaiming: "We're just friends" or "he makes me happy" or "I don't have a close family or a sister I can rely on when going through these marriage issues with you, he's the only one that I have to lean on and now I feel like I'm going to get that taken away."

She's going to lose her HUSBAND.

And she has other people, she's just choosing to pine after him and ignore the real issues. She refuses to accept that she's hurting me.

She even started DEFENDING HIM when I started calling bullshit on him "not wanting to be more than friends with her." "this isn't about him," she said. Well, it IS - because he is affecting our marriage.

Editing to add this - I am not a cheater. So if my partner comes to me distraught about my "friendship" with another man, I am going to address that. I am going to change the relationship with this man. No more hanging out outside of the office. I am going to skip happy hours. I am going to take seriously my husband's feelings. And it isn't a big deal because God forbid I screw up the most important relationship in my life for some work friend. Do you see the difference??

I see the difference. I keep coming back to this. If my wife ever came to me and said that a relationship I have with a friend, man or woman, was making her uncomfortable and hurting her, my first thought would be to immediately APOLOGIZE to her and then immediately proceed to scale back all contact and any inappropriate-looking activities. I would KNOW that that is what she wants.

instead of that, my wife snaps back: "what do you want me to do?"...like she has NO OTHER CHOICE than to keep talking to him. It's ridiculous and belittling.

Do you - or anyone else - have suggestions on how to... actually go about finding/hiring a PI? I am considering it now.

When you do the consultation with the divorce lawyer ask him for recommendations.

It's been really hard to eat lately because of everything...and that's been impacting my lifting routine.

Buy some protein or meal replacement shakes.

It's not because you couldn't explain it to her more assertively, but because she didn't care and it didn't suit her to understand. Believe me, it wouldn't work if you were Shakespeare. That's what we mean when we say there's nothing you can do about her feelings for Mark. She is deaf and blind to you now. You are now a barrier between her and her love, her soulmate. She can't hear your words, can't see your suffer. Don't confuse her with the woman you married.

Thank you for this. I needed to hear this, again, that at least it wasn't for lack of me trying to discuss it with her. I see now that so much of this is on HER (of course, I have been too weak and passive, yes).

I know it hurts, everyone here has been there. While the person you see as your everything doesn't mind it, people thousands miles away feel this pain with you. We are also aware of how difficult it is to implement our recommendations in your situation. Most of us may not have been able to do them, perhaps we did too late. However, we insist that you do not make the same mistakes, at least try not to. Because the opposite has proven to be useless, a thousand times over.

I think this is where I keep hitting the roadblock. I know what I need to do, what I should do....but it is SO HARD to pull the trigger. SO HARD. Like, I feel like I need to break this down into baby steps...at least, that is where my mind is at right now.

What small thing can I do, right now, to move me (inch-by-inch) closer to the endgame? I feel like if I am able to do that small, baby-step stuff, it'll help push me closer and move me forward to taking bigger leaps faster...but it feels like I'm standing at the deep end of a black pool and I'm too terrified to dive in and I keep wanting to walk around to the other side and dip my toes in....I know that's maybe not the best way to approach this...but that's where my head is at.

Like, frankly, I feel like I've already burned out on this. I'm exhausted. I don't know if I have it in me to have ANOTHER conversation with her, even if it is one where I try really hard to be strong and assertive and say "Here are the boundaries that you cross; it's not okay with me; I don't want to be a part of this marriage anymore if that is what you are wanting to do and how you are going to treat me."

The emotional conversation that would follow seems, right now, like it would break me. I am trying so hard to just get out of bed in the morning; to get to work; to take care of my clients and case loads and to take care of my puppy....I'm just...ugh.

Do you - or anyone else - have suggestions on how to... actually go about finding/hiring a PI? I am considering it now.

Well when I looked into it I just googled private investigators in… I didn’t need to use them in the end though as the daft **** left his phone unlocked mid-text to her and I saw enough.

I would say at this point if she does try and talk to you, you need to stop being soft with your wording and basically tell her that she IS in an affair and that you no longer trust her. I think that only suggesting it is possible as you are, simply allows her to bat it away with weak excuses.

[This message edited by Jambomo at 3:11 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

google "The 4 Ms of Infidelity". Read the article. It will explain aspects of her behavior.

She's going to lose her HUSBAND.

Hold that thought!

Faithful partners understand that "If you take care of the way things look, you've taken care of the way things are."

What are you prepared to do?!

[This message edited by CuriousObserver at 3:13 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

CheesecakeBaker some baby steps could be moving out of the bedroom. Start sleeping in a spare room or the couch. Don't engage in conversation with her. Meet with a divorce attorney - you know that doesn't equal filing. Just start wrapping your brain around it.

Make some boundaries for yourself that you refuse to break. Lift every day, no matter water. 8 glass of water every day, no matter what.

If you aren't sleeping, go see your doctor and ask for a sleep aid. It is almost impossible for me to get through this when I am sleep deprived.

Keep posting here. You are not alone. Hang in there and focus on yourself.

Also keep in mind that the disorientation you feel won't be there forever. You won't always feel like the rug was pulled out from under you. You won't always feel devastated. This is early days and your brain is still trying to protect you. Be patient with yourself as long as you aren't sweeping this under the rug.

she never really was a "social butterfly"; it used to be me.

The reason for her sociability is obvious. By the way, those working until late hours and happy hours with coworkers, may involve just one coworker. I guess the source of the information that the others are there is not someone else. Cheaters lie a lot, and there's no reason for that to be true.

It's good to hear that you can be more active in terms of socializing. That way you won't have any trouble detaching yourself from her. You should establish a lifestyle that doesn't involve her. In short, live like her. Go out with your coworkers, this may include single female coworkers. Eat out alone in the evenings, even when no one is around. If she asks, don't give clear answers, pretend to cover it up. She has to worry about you, if there are still feelings left for you of course. If she doesn't care, you already have the necessary answer, at the same time you have started your new life.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 3:25 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

Always value yourself. Sometimes you have to risk losing your M, to have any champnce to save it. Read in the healing library and implement the 180. Stop engaging with her. She just hurts you. See an attorney to learn your rights. Secure your finances. Move half of your money into a separate safe account. Hire a PI. Always value yourself. You are the prize. You deserve better. She is giving you nothing to work with. Have her served with D papers. Good luck.

What small thing can I do, right now, to move me (inch-by-inch) closer to the endgame?

Do the Hard 180 immediately! You can read about it in the Healing Library at the top of this page in the yellow box on the left.

The 180 is for YOU. You must detach from her to protect yourself then you need a legal advisor to fight for you because in your current state of mind you are vulnerable and unable to protect yourself from HER. You need to recognize that this version of her is a threat to your very life.

Hard 180. No More Mr. Nice Guy.

Strength. And some anger would do you good too.

See the divorce lawyer. This is the most concrete thing you can do right now.

I have looked up VARs...my issue is like...I know she rarely makes phone calls, let alone to Mark (I've looked at the Verizon bill). She mainly texts him. I am not certain how often they are actually alone in her car together either.

It only takes one conversation to learn the truth.

That’s what I got: one conversation.

It may take a few weeks. I let my VARs run for two weeks before I got what I needed.

Cheesecake, this may be another way to put what I have been trying to say...

Your wife is not loving you. She is not making you feel safe in the marriage, and has said that she has no intentions to do so. She does not have your back, and cannot support you emotionally.

She has also told you in so many words that this will not change, and moreover, she has been putting the blame on you. 'This Mark guy...We're just friends and you're too needy'. She is also selling that narrative for all its worth by adding that 'he's just a friend who I've been leaning on through marriage issues and the pain you are putting me through'. And that is really nonsense on her part when you think about it. Like, what does she need to 'lean on him' for. You have been there for her all this time!

I do understand that you are exhausted and that deep down you do not want to lose your WW. BUT, the marriage as you had it is already over, and as she has demonstrated, the gaslighting and stringing you along will only continue. You have to keep pushing on. You HAVE to. That is the only way out of this.

She has said she won't put any work into the marriage and so it is dead, and she won't even help you out of this dead marriage either. You are going to have to pull yourself out.

Could you implement the 180 while you seek out the advice of a divorce attorney in the next week or so.

(And yes she IS having an affair with Mark. I just don't want you to put proving this beyond a reasonable doubt--besides all the time she is spending with him that is--in your critical path when it comes to moving forward.)

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 3:33 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

instead of that, my wife snaps back: "what do you want me to do?"...like she has NO OTHER CHOICE than to keep talking to him. It's ridiculous and belittling.

I got almost this precise reaction from my WW.

Your wife’s defensiveness is very telling and seems to all but confirm what we’re telling you here.

So coldly proclaiming: "We're just friends" or "he makes me happy" or "I don't have a close family or a sister I can rely on when going through these marriage issues with you, he's the only one that I have to lean on and now I feel like I'm going to get that taken away."

Oh this is bad. Remember what I told you about my WW boldly proclaiming what a bad man I was for attempting to ruin her “one” adult “friendship” with a man?

or out to dinner, or drinks, or "smoked weed and drank and watched movies" at his house as "playful fun". I know it's not. It can't be.

Married women who are faithful don’t go on dates with other men. They don’t go to dinner regularly with other men where you are excluded. They don’t go over to another man’s house to smoke weed with him alone and watch movies. She’s all but screaming they did “Netflix and chill.”

Frankly, your wife sounds very immature. My WW at 28 years old never would have thought it appropriate to be hanging out at another man's house until 2 am to smoke pot and watch movies and that I would just accept that and be ok with it. To conduct her affair, my WW had to be extremely deceptive. When I found out the truth, I confronted and it ended. Your wife is plowing right through your soft confrontation, which is exactly what my WW did. You can shut this down; it is in your power.

It is also in your power to walk away from such a duplicitous woman when you have no kids and have only been married a short time.

[This message edited by Thumos at 3:40 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

CheesecakeBaker some baby steps could be moving out of the bedroom

Move her things out of the bedroom. That is the place of the marital bed. She left it, not you. Put her things in plastic trashbags outside the bedroom door and put a exterior lockable doorknob on the bedroom door. You don't need to say a word. It is more powerful of a statement if you remain silent. Hard 180. You will be surprised how empowering a move like that will make you feel. You could use that right now I think.

Rule to remember: Do not tell them what you are going to do. Just DO IT! You keep them off balance and reclaim your dignity. It is time to have hard conversations with yourself in the mirror. Strap on you helmet. It's going to get rough. At this stage, silent cold blank stares are a very effective weapon. She has no fear of you. Change that.