SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So even though I think the OBS is a nice person, he does seem to be enjoying taunting WH.

Of course he does. He's a human being and it's only natural to despise someone who helped wreck your life. I will hate every OW who interfered with my marriage until my dying day, and it wouldn't bother me in the least if each and every one of them burst into flames. You sound a little surprised that the OBS isn't a fan.

While I get what you're saying about your step-daughter, you are not obliged to chain yourself to an unrepentant cheater. As a stepmother, your power is limited anyway. I'd divorce the cheater and then stay in contact with the step-daughter as a friend/mentor. Five years might feel like a lot to you, but believe me, it can get a whole lot worse. Try putting in thirty years and then getting betrayed. You can't get your years back.

I would say OBS is trying to keep your WH away from his WW, and visa-versa. Sounds like initial no-contact pledges were shattered by both waywards, that’s all the motivation needed to explain OBS’ actions and words (ah . . . The blissfully ignorant days when we didn’t know any of these abbreviations).

And part of being in this club means that, for the rest of our lives we will expose affairs and reach out to anyone we know affected by infidelity and provide support (or a verbal ass-kicking) as appropriate, while of course maintaining physical and emotional boundaries.

Along those lines:

I highly recommend listening to the “Helping Couples Heal” Podcasts. The therapists’ and their guests’ understanding and explanation of Betrayal Trauma is tremendously helpful and is also useful in evaluating the type of counselors to work with (ie, ones that know about this recent “Betrayal Trauma” research versus the incorrect “Co-dependency model”).

Start at the beginning and listen to all the relevant episodes including interviews with other therapists, etc. It is tremendous validating (in a non-hippy way) to learn that we are reacting completely normally to devastating information, not weak-minded losers who can’t just suck it up and get over it.

Warning: The therapists assume the betrayed is always the woman and the betrayer is always the man, rather than using the neutral SI language of Wayward and Betrayed. Those of us who have been betrayed by females just have to make frequent pronoun switches in our heads as we listen.

Also, the Therapists tend to assume (or at least speak as if) ALL Waywards are sex addicts though they are often just people with low morals who occasionally make really stupid decisions.

Your WH is a lying sack of shit. Of course now that the shoe is on the other foot, he is screaming bloody murder even though you and the OBS are only working together to get them to separate.

Its not uncommon for the WH/WW to accuse the BS of cheating when they start communicating with the OBS. IT happens here a lot actually. And the reason they do that is b/c of a number of reasons. First they are projecting. Just reread what your WH said. No man wants to help out another woman unless he can get some ass out of it. That is the way your WH thinks. That's the way he operates, and you should note that. Anytime he ever wanted to help a woman, he wanted some ass. Based on his response, and that is how you should treat him, if you even decide to R.

Secondly, he's also gaslighting you. My ex did the same thing. It throws you off. Right now, you're already unbalanced, but when they do this, it really gets you mixed up. Good people will immediately take a step back, b/c no one wants to be assumed to be cheating or even moving in that direction, since we're accusing our WW/WH of cheating in the first place. Let me tell you its a bunch of bullshit. In fact, you should be thanking the OBS for helping you see the light, and continue working with him to keep the NC in place if you are going to R.

I think your WH is a typical coward, and he is much more manipulative than you are giving him credit for. Him doing the nasty on recorded video just shows you how much he wanted to sexually take the AP and to have it memorialized. IT had nothing to do with you. So he thinks you may leave him, so he has already decided to take on his plan B/A? Ask yourself that question. He decided to double down b/c you may be leaving him for the OBS. He knew it was wrong, and he went and did it again, recording it for memory, when he should have been doing whatever he can to win you back. Does that sound like someone deserving of R? Someone you can trust to have your back when you're sick in the hospital. SOunds to me like he would quickly find a replacement for you. That's not someone to tie your life to.

Well said Halftime.

Your husband is a lying, manipulative, pervert. He also has a ton of audacity to ask you not to be in contact with OBS as if he’s in any position to make demands after all the disgusting things he’s done.

I think you should keep in touch with OBS as a source of information, do a consultation with his lawyer friend to see if you like him, but don’t accept any money from OBS. If the lawyer wants to give you a discount or pro bono that’s fine. You also shouldn’t take OBS offer to stay. You don’t know this man a part from you shared betrayal, so it’s not safe. Also, you don’t want any cohabitation with another man (even if it’s totally platonic) to negatively impact the legal aspects of getting divorce.

Lastly, I know you want to stay for your stepdaughter’s sake, but unless you adopted her, your husband could walk out the door tomorrow, take her away from you, and there’s nothing you could do about it.

Your husband is a lying, manipulative, pervert. He also has a ton of audacity to ask you not to be in contact with OBS as if he’s in any position to make demands after all the disgusting things he’s done.

I think you should keep in touch with OBS as a source of information, do a consultation with his lawyer friend to see if you like him, but don’t accept any money from OBS. If the lawyer wants to give you a discount or pro bono that’s fine. You also shouldn’t take OBS offer to stay. You don’t know this man a part from you shared betrayal, so it’s not safe. Also, you don’t want any cohabitation with another man (even if it’s totally platonic) to negatively impact the legal aspects of getting divorce.

Lastly, I know you want to stay for your stepdaughter’s sake, but unless you adopted her, your husband could walk out the door tomorrow, take her away from you, and there’s nothing you could do about it.

There has been a lot of drama with the AP recently and I'm honestly just tired of it all. She's convinced the OBS won't give her a second chance because of me. Her and WH manipulated/tricked the OBS and me into have a sit down meeting with them so "we" could all come to some agreement to save both of our original relationships. It had the opposite affect and I think I'm finally DONE. It's a weird experience having to sit and listen to your husband and his mistress somehow make you look like some evil temptress when you've continued being faithful despite everything. It's also extremely eye-opening to watch a man that isn't your husband defend you and care more about your feelings than the man you planned to spend the rest of your life with.

Of course, WH is just focused on how the OBS had disrespected and threatened him and how I supposedly liked having the OBS defending me.

My WH is completely obsessed with the OBS and I can't believe it took me this long to realise it.

I wish I had never come back.

If there is one thing that you need to assure yourself again and again, is that there is NO WAY that your WH.....or the AP.....is going to dictate what it will take to 'salvage' the original marriages. You know--the ones that the both decimated.

I'm sorry to say this, but your WH sounds like an ass. Has an attitude with the OBS? I don't know how the OBS composes himself. I never condone violence, but there is no way that I could say with any certainty that if I was put in the OBS's shoes, I would be able to keep myself composed. Your WH has been disrespected by the OBS. Pfffft.

That aside, your WH is nowhere near a candidate for reconciliation. he is a GREAT candidate for a divorce, and it looks like you are starting to feel that way also. You do what you feel is best for YOU, and let the chips fall where they may. I'm sorry that you have had to go through this fiasco.

She's convinced the OBS won't give her a second chance because of me.

Sure, because of you and not her actions - and what colour is the sky in her world, eh?

Her and WH manipulated/tricked the OBS and me into have a sit down meeting with them so "we" could all come to some agreement to save both of our original relationships.

Their conceit is beyond belief. It was also a tactical mistake to agree to the meeting as it gave the impression they were both on equal footing with you and had equal say in the matter. It gave them validation they hadn't deserved. But what's done is done, at least you took a valuable lesson from it.

It's also extremely eye-opening to watch a man that isn't your husband defend you and care more about your feelings than the man you planned to spend the rest of your life with.

I'm willing to bet good money that both of you (i.e. you and the OBS) were the more empathetic ones in your respective marriages from the get go.

Of course, WH is just focused on how the OBS had disrespected and threatened him and how I supposedly liked having the OBS defending me.

First of all, it's difficult to disrespect someone who doesn't have a modicum of self-respect - it's like trying to freeze ice or wet a river. Secondly, a bloke who had an affair with someone else's wife has the audacity to complain about being disrespected by that wife's lawful husband. Some folks seem to function on a completely different plane of existence.

Your husband seems to act like that playground bully each and every one of us used to know - the one who got their jollies by harassing other kids until someone had had too much and gave them a hefty kick in the arse. Then, all of a sudden, the bully was all snot and tears and the other kid the "aggressor". Who knows, maybe your WH has never emotionally left his playground?

My WH is completely obsessed with the OBS

He seems unhealthy on so many levels that this is but a drop in the ocean.

[This message edited by Sceadugenga at 1:25 PM, June 17th (Thursday)]

Their conceit is beyond belief. It was aso a tactical mistake to agree to the meeting as it gave the impression they were both on equal footing with you and had equal say in the matter. It gave them validation they hadn't deserved.

This reminds me that Lincoln did not seek a formal declaration of war against the Confederacy because to do so would have recognized them as a legitimate government, able to reach treaties with other governments.

Don't legitimize them. Expose them, remind them and others that they are fake and counterfeit, unworthy of respect and consideration.

wiltedheart, I can only imagine how confused you must feel right now because I'm confused just reading your update (not because of you).

I'm confused as to how 2 cheaters can possible look at their Betrayed Spouses and work TOGETHER to convince their Betrayed Spouses that the only reason the marriages are in shambles is because of the Betrayed Spouses. I thought my ex had a few screws loose, these 2 take the cake!!!

One retort that I learned with my ex, when he was telling me it's my fault he cheated, is "We were in the same marriage and I didn't cheat" Doesn't matter how disconnected people feel in the marriage, people can choose to stay faithful.

I am so very sorry you are dealing with this. I hope that his horrible, selfish responses give you peace and strength to move away from this IDIOT.

I’m not sure how you could ever consider reconciling with your cheating husband.

I definitely should've just walked out as soon as I realised what they were doing but I was just so shocked by the audacity.

I'm confused as to how 2 cheaters can possible look at their Betrayed Spouses and work TOGETHER to convince their Betrayed Spouses that the only reason the marriages are in shambles is because of the Betrayed Spouses. I thought my ex had a few screws loose, these 2 take the cake!!!

Their logic is that if we (OBS and me) just stopped talking then everything could go back to normal. AP thinks me and her are fighting over the OBS. WH thinks the OBS is trying to convince me to leave him so me and the OBS can hook up. They want to rugsweep the affair but our friendship is stopping them from doing it since every time WH lies to me, OBS usually knows and clears it up.

I'm sorry to say this, but your WH sounds like an ass. Has an attitude with the OBS? I don't know how the OBS composes himself. I never condone violence, but there is no way that I could say with any certainty that if I was put in the OBS's shoes, I would be able to keep myself composed. Your WH has been disrespected by the OBS. Pfffft.

My WH has become a huge ass since the affair was exposed (or maybe he always was one). Thankfully things didn't get physical, although my WH was trying to goad OBS for sure. He was actually moaning about OBS not falling for it. When I asked him what he would've done if OBS decided to get violent he told me he would get him locked up. I think that was his goal the whole time. I'm glad OBS didn't give him the satisfaction.

Maybe if OW wanted her husband to eventually forgive her, she shouldn't have spitefully sent him a video of your WH railing her.

You should get rid of your WH as soon as possible... not just because he's a sick, impulsive, pervert, but because he simply too to exist in civilized society.

I would have been too shocked to leave too. It just flies in the face of everything logical.

My ex had his AP#1 call me, when I kicked him out the first time, to ask that I "be the bigger person for the children's sake because she can love them like her own" And then when he left her because I let him come home, he eventually said it was my therapist's fault for giving us "false hope of reconciliation" and that had he known that I "couldn't get over the affair" then he would have stayed where he was. The level of blame with everyone else but themselves is astounding.

Thankfully things didn't get physical, although my WH was trying to goad OBS for sure. He was actually moaning about OBS not falling for it. When I asked him what he would've done if OBS decided to get violent he told me he would get him locked up. I think that was his goal the whole time.

That's your playground bully in all his faux-glory. How old is this guy? I mean, what do the papers say?

Your husband is a LOT. So it wasn't enough to sleep with this guy's wife, now he also wants to get him arrested?

[This message edited by stubbornft at 4:56 PM, June 17th (Thursday)]

My ex had his AP#1 call me, when I kicked him out the first time, to ask that I "be the bigger person for the children's sake because she can love them like her own" And then when he left her because I let him come home, he eventually said it was my therapist's fault for giving us "false hope of reconciliation" and that had he known that I "couldn't get over the affair" then he would have stayed where he was. The level of blame with everyone else but themselves is astounding.

I'm sorry you went through that. It's like they live in some sort of alternative reality.

That's your playground bully in all his faux-glory. How old is this guy? I mean, what do the papers say?

He's 33, if you can believe it.

Your husband is a LOT. So it wasn't enough to sleep with this guy's wife, now he also wants to get him arrested?

This is exactly what I said but my WH still tries to play the victim. He thinks because the OBS and AP were only engaged he did him a favour by showing him the AP's true colours. He thinks the OBS is worse for talking to me because we're married so he is justified for wanting revenge. His logic is ridiculous.

Their logic is that if we (OBS and me) just stopped talking then everything could go back to normal. AP thinks me and her are fighting over the OBS. WH thinks the OBS is trying to convince me to leave him so me and the OBS can hook up. They want to rugsweep the affair but our friendship is stopping them from doing it since every time WH lies to me, OBS usually knows and clears it up.

Sounds to me like your WH is looking for a reason to be with the AP. If you and OBS hook up (which we know is not on your to-do list) he can use this as an excuse to be with AP. Makes me sick the way he is trying to twist this into being your fault. Not surprising but still sickening. He's toxic and you need to get away from him if you can.