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This is exactly what I said but my WH still tries to play the victim. He thinks because the OBS and AP were only engaged he did him a favour by showing him the AP's true colours. He thinks the OBS is worse for talking to me because we're married so he is justified for wanting revenge. His logic is ridiculous.

It is to emotionally healthy people, but he doesn't appear to be one of those.

In my estimation, he ticks enough boxes to at least suggest that you read up on narcissism (especially covert/vulnerable narcissism) and re-evaluate your situation against what you've learnt. You might realise that his current actions fall into a broader behavioral pattern which has always been there but remained unnoticed because we don't psychoanalyse our loved ones unless/until we are forced to. It could also give you some clarity and, surprisingly, peace of mind.

Another issue worth reading up on is the sunk cost fallacy. You say he's 33, so unless you're way older than him, you're still young and writing him off as toxic debt (the pun is very much intended) is still a viable option.

Having you sit down to talk about everything was atrocious. It sounds to me like him and AP want things to go back to normal so that they can keep seeing each other without you or OBS catching them by sharing info with each other.

See a lawyer if you haven't already. Get your ducks in a row.

Having you sit down to talk about everything was atrocious. It sounds to me like him and AP want things to go back to normal so that they can keep seeing each other without you or OBS catching them by sharing info with each other.

See a lawyer if you haven't already. Get your ducks in a row.

I agree 100% with the above statement. You have nothing to work with here.

Consult with more than one attorney. Know your rights and leave his sorry ass.

Her and WH manipulated/tricked the OBS and me into have a sit down meeting with them so "we" could all come to some agreement to save both of our original relationships.

I'm going to be honest with you... the unmitigated gall of those two cheaters banding together to manipulate/trick their way into the sitdown meeting from hell would be THE END for me.

I'd get an attorney on Monday and I'd file before 6pm... and I'd mean it too. I'd be done. What kind of grandiose scheming mind even comes up with such a thing? or agrees to be involved in it? How exactly did they pull this off?

Haven't you and the OBS been tricked enough? And frankly, your WH with his filthy jealous projecting?.. how in the hell do you even stand looking at him at this point? The egregious INSULT of cheaters projecting their lack of moral integrity onto the person they ABUSED with their deceit?... it's just one insult too many in my book.

You're NOT wrong if you feel like you're done. Your WS is showing no progress at all. Just the opposite in fact.

The audacity of the betrayers blaming the betrayed for ruining 2 marriages. You should have just told them upfront that it was them who created this mess to the 4 of you.
I don't believe that the OBS has bad intentions, like you, he was also betrayed. I honestly believe that he is a good man inside and out.
Best scenario is if the betrayed get together and live happily ever after and the betrayers keep on betraying each other and live their lives the way they wanted.
All the best to you!

[This message edited by beb252 at 2:40 AM, Saturday, June 19th]

It sounds like the other betrayed spouse has helped you more than hurt you. Evaluate that situation closely and if you proceed with divorce, just know that you need to think clearly if you end up staying with him and something does happen. That is not saying that you should or should not do anything, just make sure you guys are on the same page and understand what you staying with him would actually mean. Also, forget the cheaters in this situation. They are trying to control the situation in my opinion. I’m sorry you’ve been dealt this crap fest.

Today on my WH is a horrible person... He had my stepdaughter call the OBS to ask him why he was trying to take her family away from her after I told him it was over. I never expected him to be so manipulative or to use her like that. She also isn't speaking to me now unless I promise to stay. I feel awful and guilty which I know was WH's goal.

I've been trying to grey rock him but WH knows how to get a reaction out of me so it's been an epic fail so far.

I'd get an attorney on Monday and I'd file before 6pm... and I'd mean it too. I'd be done. What kind of grandiose scheming mind even comes up with such a thing? or agrees to be involved in it? How exactly did they pull this off?

Before they did this a part of me still held on to hope that we could fix things but I really don't see us ever coming back from it. I know it might sound dramatic but it completely changed the way I view WH. I'm getting my ducks in a row so I can file ASAP.

They pulled it off because WH was being extremely nice to me and I thought he had finally woken up and realised what he had done, so I stupidly let him convince me to go on a date with him so we could talk things through without having to worry about my stepdaughter overhearing. I had no idea it was supposed to be a double date .

He had my stepdaughter call the OBS to ask him why he was trying to take her family away from her after I told him it was over. I never expected him to be so manipulative or to use her like that.

So, he'll even stoop to using his own daughter as a pawn in his sick game. Now that you're beginning to see him for who he is, be prepared for manipulation to increase. Manipulative folks use three tactics to have their way: lovebombing, playing the victim card and threats. In the above situation he used your stepdaughter to play the victim, but the mechanism is as clear as day.

They pulled it off because WH was being extremely nice to me and I thought he had finally woken up and realised what he had done, so I stupidly let him convince me to go on a date with him so we could talk things through without having to worry about my stepdaughter overhearing.

That was lovebombing.

I know it might sound dramatic but it completely changed the way I view WH.

It doesn't sound dramatic - it sounds reasonable, especially now that his shenanigans are clearly escalating.

There's one more thing that got me curious: would you mind sharing what you know about the circumstances in which your WH and the bio mum of your stepdaughter parted ways?

Not much left to reconcile with. Sorry for you.

He had my stepdaughter call the OBS to ask him why he was trying to take her family away from her after I told him it was over.

This was so unnecessary and manipulative. What an a$$. He still doesn't realize, he is losing you due to his actions and still doing it. With this attitude I don't see any way to save this marriage.

His focus should have been on you, your marriage & your healing, not playing blame games with OBS. This clearly shows how little he cares about the marriage.

I have no idea who or what your husband is but this kind of behavior is very narcissistic. They never like to lose and OBS is winning. He is an adult. What does that say about your H?

They pulled it off because WH was being extremely nice to me and I thought he had finally woken up and realised what he had done, so I stupidly let him convince me to go on a date with him so we could talk things through without having to worry about my stepdaughter overhearing. I had no idea it was supposed to be a double date .

First off, trusting your spouse doesn't make you stupid. It makes you normal. YOU aren't the dysfunctional one, right? Next... wow.

There are just so many ways this is wrong. There's the projection we talked about last time, where he accuses you of the very same thing he's guilty of. This is just another form of blame-shifting as he flips the dialogue and makes it about what YOU are doing and not what he has done. You see the refusal of personal responsibility. There's also broken contact, meaning that he and the OW were communicating behind your back... AGAIN. This tells us that he's still making autocratic decisions about YOUR life. He's still clearly puffed up with entitlement because we can SEE how he rejects your autonomy and your right to make your own INFORMED decisions.

And don't get me started on involving a child, his child, the child he's supposed to be protecting from emotional harm. The kind of raw selfishness a choice like that must entail makes me suspect narcissistic traits if not full blown narcissism. So, be careful. These types are tough to get away from so you'll want an attorney who's dealt with it before. Make sure you're getting lots of IRL support from friends and family members too.

I'm so sorry. You really don't have much to work with here. This guy is a total tear-down, and he's got to WANT to do the work. No one can do it for him.

((hugs))

A double date between the betrayers and the betrayed? I'm not sure if I can show a straight face during the duration of that 'date'. I might lose myself and punch both of them in the face if it were me.
They were acting like there was no affair between the two of them when they talk to you. I think they both have personality disorders, the both of them.

This guy is a total tear-down, and he's got to WANT to do the work. No one can do it for him.

I'll probably sound like a Negative Nancy here, but narcissists rarely willingly seek therapy or see any need for change. Admitting the necessity of help contradicts their grandiose self-image and triggers the toxic shame which underpins their personality. And even then, the effectiveness of such treatment is often called into question by a significant proportion of mental health providers. One of the few authorities to claim any degree of success is dr Elinor Greenberg, a therapist and former lecturer in the Masterton Institute of New York, but in her case it's still unclear how severe the the successful cases initially were.

Hi everyone,

The past two weeks have been very hard. I guess WH and AP are a couple now. She's basically replaced me and my WH has no problem with bringing her over to our home and flaunting their relationship even though I still live here.

My stepdaughter hates me but loves the AP now. She's said some extremely hurtful things to me and has repeated some nasty names I didn't realise she knew. I'm guessing she heard her dad or the AP calling me them. WH has also made it clear he will never let me speak to her again once we're divorced. If I'm being completely honest I wasn't sure how I would feel about my stepdaughter when she first came to live with us but I really love her like she is my own. It's been me that has done all of the childcare and parenting yet I'm not her biological mother so I have no rights. I think this is the worst part of it all... My WH destroyed our relationship but I'm the one who is going to lose our family while he gets to move on with AP.

A few days ago WH caught me crying after my stepdaughter told me she hated me and he told me "he could still love me and things would go back to normal" if I would just apologise. Looking back the whole thing is beyond absurd but in that moment I felt so weak I almost said sorry to him. When he didn't get his apology he got really mean and told me nobody would want me after our divorce, accused me of thinking I was special because OBS was giving me attention, said I wasn't and that I wasn't the type of girl a man like OBS/WH would go for and that WH had taken pity on me when he married me and I shouldn't expect to get that lucky twice. My self-esteem took a hit when I found out about the affair but that really just destroyed whatever was left. I know I shouldn't listen to him and that he's just being awful because he's losing control of the situation but my brain isn't being logical right now.

I think my WH's biggest fear is that I'll end up with the OBS. I said it before, but he is so obsessed with him, to the point where he stalks him on social media constantly and will point out things that make us incompatible.

I really wish I could fast forward to the part where I'm happy and over this whole situation because right now life just really sucks.

WH had taken pity on me when he married me and I shouldn't expect to get that lucky twice. My self-esteem took a hit when I found out about the affair but that really just destroyed whatever was left. I know I shouldn't listen to him and that he's just being awful because he's losing control of the situation but my brain isn't being logical right now.

You don't say that to a woman who treated your daughter as her own... ever! Your absence will be felt in a few months, that I'm sure of. They will both know what they've lost once you're gone with their lives and moved on. Your step-daughter might have been poisoned by your WH and told her a lot of lies... which is not far from reality coz he's proven he's a bad husband and father.

They don't deserve your love, honestly. You need to let them go. I know you're hurting right now but they checked out already, both of them.

OBS is your bestfriend now. You're both in it together. You're both the betrayed ones and you both need to be strong.

All the best!

wiltedheart,

You husband is a truly awful human being. You need to get out of that house ASAP and go NC while you proceed with the divorce. Please take care of yourself and remove these toxic people from your life. I know you care for your stepdaughter, but legally you have no rights and it appears your husband is controlling the narrative. You need to let her go for now and perhaps sometime in the future, reconnect.

Wilted if possible, take the advice given here, and get out of that situation asap! You are a decent caring person, which is evidenced by your repeated efforts to salvage your marriage, and your selfless act of returning to care for your stepdaughter. As a father of two grown daughters, my heart hurts for you, but you need to realize that you are so much more than they are. Your STBX is really a piece of work, but then narcissists always are, and never base your worthiness upon anything he or that piece of trash say about you.

Get out of this situation

A disgusting coward.

That isn't even a negative enough description of him. Seriously, anyone who would use their own child like that has a special seat reserved for themselves in the afterlife.

Wilted, there is NOTHING BETTER that you can do for yourself than to get away from this poor excuse of a human being. There aren't words that can describe how rotten this person is right down to their core.